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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 4, 2015 2:45:00 GMT
Tomás Ó Sé: Clear red mist and Dubs can thrive Gavin's men need to focus less on physical dominance and more on football
Watching some of the actions of the Dublin footballers last Sunday brought me back to a sunny Killarney afternoon five years ago when Limerick came to town for a Munster final.Not my proudest moment. I was all over the place in the first half, could have been sent off twice for what the cameras saw and even a third time for what they didn't pick up.
Stephen Kelly was the object of my ire. He'd done the 'hard man' act with us before and I got sucked into making a promise that, by God, he wasn't going to get away with it again.
Trouble was, I got sucked in too much and paid a price.
I wasn't sent off but I did get a subsequent suspension when the cameras rolled that week. Hands up, I was guilty. My game suffered.
I saw it in at least four Dublin players last Sunday. Their focus wasn't totally on breaking down Mayo in terms of football.
As a team, they became too obsessed with the idea of physically imposing themselves and it took away from their normal game. Mayo too had a couple for whom the ball wasn't always a priority.
Confrontation Paul Flynn was better than he has been but wasn't completely tuned in either, seeking confrontation too often off the ball, shoving his opponent at any opportunity.
Too many of them were over-pumped which surprised me because one of the things that Jim Gavin has brought to this team is a controlled aggression.
They've been able to dominate physically with a detachment far from what we saw them engage in last Sunday.
Philly McMahon was a liability at times. You need your hard men but you don't need some of the irrational stuff that he pulled off. It's only drawing the attention of the referee for the next day and they'll come down harder.
They're not a dirty team and in Gavin's time they've been quite disciplined given the pressure that they've inevitably been put under.
They'd be far better concentrating on their own game rather than focusing on someone else's. But there's history between them now and it's spilling out between every crack and crevice.
It's the biggest single issue that Dublin will have address this week. To concede 1-8 to a marksman of Cillian O'Connor's range and quality points to a pretty serious disciplinary breakdown for a team of their status.
Let me be clear, though, there were patches where Dublin produced top-class defence. They just need to be more even-tempered about it.
After the build-up, the match itself, not the occasion, didn't really deliver. Mayo started nervously, Dublin finished nervously. In between Dublin made hay when there was structure and order to it.
But you have to admire this Mayo team for what they bring. Over the last five years they've been the toughest and most consistent team in the country. No doubt in my mind about that. They just have to believe that they are good enough to win it out. Which they are.
The difference between the first 10 minutes and the last 10 illustrated the gulf in approach.
When they weren't worried about tactics, who was in front of the full-back line or kick-out strategies they prospered with the kitchen-sink attitude. No team runs from deep like them. Check out where Colm Boyle started for the penalty. Dublin didn't try to stop them at source often enough which, I felt, was a mistake.
Mayo have to get better support structures around Aidan O'Shea. It didn't always happen for him but I admired him for going at it with the level of abuse he was getting.
They were just too cagey early on and had no link. They need to operate with three more players inside Dublin's half at all times. Take that chance.
I questioned O'Connor the last day and I still think he has more to give. But from frees, immaculate. And a penalty in the 69th minute? Balls.
One thing that baffles me is the approach to kick-outs from both sides. The obsession with trying to guarantee 100 per cent return is too great. Dublin went short, Mayo allowed them to pick it up in the corners but then met them with a wall in the middle third that Dublin couldn't always penetrate. Too often it left Dublin with too much to do.
For me, Denis Bastick must start the next day. Stick a few kick-outs above him, ask him to break them at worst and have blue shirts beneath fighting furiously. Michael Darragh MacAuley should partner him. Gavin should tell them, 'You're the senior men, this is on you'.
Dublin need more from their big men. They're a team with the experience of two All-Irelands. They don't need Brogan, Flynn and Cluxton to be just okay. They need them to be much more in these games. Even Ciarán Kilkenny, superb in the first half, was anonymous after that.
The management that picks up most on the mistakes the last day and builds best on what they did right will win. Analysis is king. That matters more than momentum. Replays don't change in that regard.
Gavin is under a little bit more pressure now to find a solution to this one. Tactically, the questions still remain. Management and players really need to step up to the plate this week and if they do, they'll win.
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Post by Die Hard Kerry Fan on Sept 4, 2015 6:14:05 GMT
Good night folks When I wake up I expect to be reading about DC being cleared to play against Mayo. The meeting is going on now for about 3 hours and the longer it goes on the better his chances of getting off. If COC isn't suspended then DC shouldn't be either The one man that should be suspended is Johnny Cooper but the rules dont allow that as he got a yellow on the day Looks like his appeal has been thrown out by the CHC, wonder will they give the DRA a go?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 6:17:43 GMT
Of course, it will demonstrate even further how the poor dubs are being picked on.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 4, 2015 6:50:26 GMT
I dunno if they will, it has consumed the entire week, the match needs the 100% attention most now. With the McCann saga GAA may have sand the line drawn it in.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 4, 2015 7:33:20 GMT
The DRA cant meet at the drop of a hat. Its more like a court.
So most unlikely that DC that will feature v Mayo.
Fully expect that Dublin will win now and DC will be champing at the bit for the final.
Not good for Mayo or Kerry at this stage
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 4, 2015 7:35:47 GMT
I dunno if they will, it has consumed the entire week, the match needs the 100% attention most now. With the McCann saga GAA may have sand the line drawn it in. They have already distracted themselves. Mayo to win.
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Post by jackiel on Sept 4, 2015 9:35:24 GMT
I'd say the hurlers are rightly p***d off that Dublin & Mayo are stealing their thunder. Busy weekend ahead, pinning my hopes on the men from the West in the hurling and at this stage could care less about the result tomorrow except that we finally get one.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 4, 2015 9:42:02 GMT
The DRA cant meet at the drop of a hat. Its more like a court. So most unlikely that DC that will feature v Mayo. Fully expect that Dublin will win now and DC will be champing at the bit for the final. Not good for Mayo or Kerry at this stage It's all good, we're AI Champions, we don't care who we meet, Dublin? Fine. Mayo? just the same. Connolly is a quality player, but our approach in any way won't be impinged by any of the nonsense last weekend or the side show this week. Both are still high quality outfits, but am putting shoe in other foot and meeting this Kerry team won't be good for either of them.
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Post by playitfair on Sept 4, 2015 11:38:18 GMT
I think Connolly not playing will push Dublin on to win the match. I think Mayo do not have the forwards (Certainly didn't last Sinday) to win especially if they decide to plough on with Aidan O'Shea full forward. He's just not a full forward. Inter County Management 101 - get your best player sent off and miss the next match to spur on the rest of your guys to win it. Sorry, can't see the logic. He's going to be a huge loss for them which is saying a lot about the absense of leaders on show . To be honest the replay if as tough to call as the last day. Who do we want to meet in the final? Does it matter? Would the pleasure in seeing us put the Dubs to the sword out weigh the pain of possible defeat to them. Would losing Mayo be less hard to take? Two things: 1. Connolly is not Dublins best forward, Bernard Brogan is; 2. It will force Dublin to reorganise, focus on the match, utilise their better forwards and believe their being victimised. I can only see Dublin winning.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 4, 2015 11:40:27 GMT
Inter County Management 101 - get your best player sent off and miss the next match to spur on the rest of your guys to win it. Sorry, can't see the logic. He's going to be a huge loss for them which is saying a lot about the absense of leaders on show . To be honest the replay if as tough to call as the last day. Who do we want to meet in the final? Does it matter? Would the pleasure in seeing us put the Dubs to the sword out weigh the pain of possible defeat to them. Would losing Mayo be less hard to take? Two things: 1. Connolly is not Dublins best forward, Bernard Brogan is; 2. It will force Dublin to reorganise, focus on the match, utilise their better forwards and believe their being victimised. I can only see Dublin winning. I agree strongly with point 1. On point 2, when you feel victimised everything else is everyone else's fault and not yours: this is a losing mentality.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 4, 2015 11:51:56 GMT
Lots of bull being peddled in the media in recent times about "this siege mentality thing" and "being victimised", since people started to assume that Tyrone thought the world was against them. This notion of siege mentality and being victimised is a load of cobblers. It won't even enter the Dublin player's minds when they take to the field tomorrow evening. At the end of the day, DC stepped out of line.
On the game, a tight one to call as both have their issues going into the game. I'd imagine it will be still very much in the melting pot going into the last 10 minutes. Something to look forward to on a Saturday evening.
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Post by donegalman on Sept 4, 2015 11:55:30 GMT
I am surprised that dublin have taken it this far, and not focused on the replay. It shows what a vital man Connolly is. I feel sorry for him but the rules are the rules. I also think that his absence will ultimately be the losing of this game for Dublin. The only forward that seems to be able to win dirty ball for the dubs is killkenny. Rock was absent last week. Brogan played quite well but was kept fairly quiet at the same time. The runners from mid field will miss Connolly.
Mayo should win this game in possibly a low scoring tense battle, that might not end with any love lost. I will be glued to it.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 4, 2015 14:05:51 GMT
Dublin have named a debutant for the game tomorrow. Dermot O'Connolly plays for St. Vincent's is 28 and will make his first appearance for the Dubs at left half forward tomorrow
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 4, 2015 14:33:25 GMT
I am surprised that dublin have taken it this far, and not focused on the replay. It shows what a vital man Connolly is. I feel sorry for him but the rules are the rules. I also think that his absence will ultimately be the losing of this game for Dublin. The only forward that seems to be able to win dirty ball for the dubs is killkenny. Rock was absent last week. Brogan played quite well but was kept fairly quiet at the same time. The runners from mid field will miss Connolly. Mayo should win this game in possibly a low scoring tense battle, that might not end with any love lost. I will be glued to it. I think Dublin were optimistic of a positive outcome, bearing in mind the Kevin Keane rule! However its done now and I don't see much point in going down the DRA route tonight. At the start of the week I was more hopeful than confident, but as the game nears I am beginning to get rid of the Damien Dempsey feeling, "Negative Vibes!". Concentrate on our football, keep 15 men on the pitch, eliminate the stupid frees. When theres nothing between two teams it normally boils down to who has the better forwards. Only one answer there, despite the loss of Dermot.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 4, 2015 16:37:03 GMT
I am surprised that dublin have taken it this far, and not focused on the replay. It shows what a vital man Connolly is. I feel sorry for him but the rules are the rules. I also think that his absence will ultimately be the losing of this game for Dublin. The only forward that seems to be able to win dirty ball for the dubs is killkenny. Rock was absent last week. Brogan played quite well but was kept fairly quiet at the same time. The runners from mid field will miss Connolly. Mayo should win this game in possibly a low scoring tense battle, that might not end with any love lost. I will be glued to it. I think Dublin were optimistic of a positive outcome, bearing in mind the Kevin Keane rule! However its done now and I don't see much point in going down the DRA route tonight. At the start of the week I was more hopeful than confident, but as the game nears I am beginning to get rid of the Damien Dempsey feeling, "Negative Vibes!". Concentrate on our football, keep 15 men on the pitch, eliminate the stupid frees. When theres nothing between two teams it normally boils down to who has the better forwards. Only one answer there, despite the loss of Dermot. Connolly out, Flynn off the boil, Rock blown out, O'Gara in rehab - boiling down to BB & AB and Kilkenny to play out of his skin, not a given............I wouldn't put the house on a Dublin victory based on them having the best forwards.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 4, 2015 16:46:41 GMT
I am surprised that dublin have taken it this far, and not focused on the replay. It shows what a vital man Connolly is. I feel sorry for him but the rules are the rules. I also think that his absence will ultimately be the losing of this game for Dublin. The only forward that seems to be able to win dirty ball for the dubs is killkenny. Rock was absent last week. Brogan played quite well but was kept fairly quiet at the same time. The runners from mid field will miss Connolly. Mayo should win this game in possibly a low scoring tense battle, that might not end with any love lost. I will be glued to it. I think Dublin were optimistic of a positive outcome, bearing in mind the Kevin Keane rule! However its done now and I don't see much point in going down the DRA route tonight. At the start of the week I was more hopeful than confident, but as the game nears I am beginning to get rid of the Damien Dempsey feeling, "Negative Vibes!". Concentrate on our football, keep 15 men on the pitch, eliminate the stupid frees. When theres nothing between two teams it normally boils down to who has the better forwards. Only one answer there, despite the loss of Dermot. That's more than a trivial ask given the concession rate last week that kept Mayo above water til half time. Connolly is a huge loss. Alan Brogan is the man to step up now, he can gun points off both feet from distance BUT he's not the player of old either (age, injury, sub roles) as regards doesn't have a bag of recent good form to call on. He'll surely start though, been there done that etc and has the class. There going to have to do something in midfield, as Mayo will surely not give the Johnny Cooper pocket pass freebie this week, so Cluxton may have to puck long more than last. A few lads need to step up on both sides McAuley, O'Sullivan and Flynn for Dublin. Seamie O'Shea (mare last week), Keegan and McLoughlin for Mayo. McLoughlin is a very potent player when on his game, he was wasn't at it last week.
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Post by mayo4sam on Sept 4, 2015 21:55:48 GMT
I think Dublin were optimistic of a positive outcome, bearing in mind the Kevin Keane rule! However its done now and I don't see much point in going down the DRA route tonight. At the start of the week I was more hopeful than confident, but as the game nears I am beginning to get rid of the Damien Dempsey feeling, "Negative Vibes!". Concentrate on our football, keep 15 men on the pitch, eliminate the stupid frees. When theres nothing between two teams it normally boils down to who has the better forwards. Only one answer there, despite the loss of Dermot. That's more than a trivial ask given the concession rate last week that kept Mayo above water til half time. Connolly is a huge loss. Alan Brogan is the man to step up now, he can gun points off both feet from distance BUT he's not the player of old either (age, injury, sub roles) as regards doesn't have a bag of recent good form to call on. He'll surely start though, been there done that etc and has the class. There going to have to do something in midfield, as Mayo will surely not give the Johnny Cooper pocket pass freebie this week, so Cluxton may have to puck long more than last. A few lads need to step up on both sides McAuley, O'Sullivan and Flynn for Dublin. Seamie O'Shea (mare last week), Keegan and McLoughlin for Mayo. McLoughlin is a very potent player when on his game, he was wasn't at it last week. I will be expecting mayo to push up on cluxtons kickouts, not all the time but mix it and keep the dubs thinking. If connolly is out,I see lee keegan having a more roving position which will be positive for Mayo. Seamie and Kevin had off days the last day and will make up for it tomorrow. I expect Mayo to win by at least 4 points tomorrow.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 4, 2015 22:05:14 GMT
mayo4sam
That's a nice three in a row for Mayo;
Lee Keegan gets away with kicking an opponent Kevin Keane gets away with punching an opponent Cillian OConnor gets away with punching an opponent
Any observations?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 4, 2015 22:57:27 GMT
Just have to get on with it, no excuses. Mayo have got all the breaks, can they take advantage?
Connolly a huge loss though, in attacking sense, and in keeping Keegan quiet. I do fear for us, in the cold light of day. But I have faith too that we can find a way. Bernard needs to really do damage, we need early goals
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Sept 4, 2015 23:04:17 GMT
Dublin have named a debutant for the game tomorrow. Dermot O'Connolly plays for St. Vincent's is 28 and will make his first appearance for the Dubs at left half forward tomorrow Houl on a minute. Something's not right here........ Isn't that last seasons Jersey he's wearing??
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 4, 2015 23:09:33 GMT
The closer we get to the game the more I believe Diarmuidgate is more positive for Dublin than it is for Mayo. Keegan did very well on Connolly, but if he does get more space in the replay than whoever he marks will have a field day. Dublin are well able to deal with missing out on Connolly and have so many options. They can bring on Costello, Paddy Andrews or Alan Brogan, move things around, etc, etc. They will have practiced playing with different forward combinations and are used to playing without Diarmuid so it will not have hindered them too much in their preparations. For Mayo it seemed to be more of a distraction though. They only found out today for sure that they won't need to worry about having a plan for dealing with Conolly so will probably have used valuable training time trying to nullify his influence. Gavin is someone who has shown time and time again that he intends to use his full 30-men-squad and like with Eamon Fitzmaurice most players will not be sure of their starting spots. It keeps the Dublin players on their roes, but also means they are well able to deal with the loss of any player. MDMA and Cluxton had horrible games the last day out, never seen them play that badly. MDMA conced a black card and so did the guy substituting him, Bastick. Bastick, in my opinion, did not weaken Dublin when he came on, though Lowndes in midfield gave the midfield advantage to Mayo. Parsons and O'Shea took a while to get into the game and it took Mayo a long time to realise that just kicking high ball into Aidan O'Shea doesn't work. Aidan O'Shea does well at full forward, but is not a full forward in my opinion. In my opinion Mayo should start with Andy Moran and Freeman rather than Doherty and Drake. It is vital for Mayo that they start quicker this time rather than wake up during the second half. I think Gavin is a moe intelligent manager than Holmes and that might well be the deciding factor. Dublin by 2 unless Mayo address the weaknesses in which case I think Mayo by 4. Doubt it though.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 5, 2015 0:04:35 GMT
Jesuz Seoirse - that's a boat with two oars pulling in different directions in the hands of one man. Don't be heading for Met Eireann with the CV
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 5, 2015 0:32:06 GMT
Jesuz Seoirse - that's a boat with two oars pulling in different directions in the hands of one man. Don't be heading for Met Eireann with the CV Tis indeed. I still think this can go either way and I do think Dublin are most likely to come out on top. Unless....Mayo have learned from the last day.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2015 5:24:35 GMT
Dublin GAA tweeted around 5 am that the appeal to the DRA was successful.
I can only see a Mayo victory now.
Expect violence too - sure the players know you can get away with a lot anyway.
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Post by Joxer on Sept 5, 2015 6:28:31 GMT
This is beyond a joke at this stage...the GAA itself is bringing the game into disrepute! Getting sent off today will mean nothing in terms of your availability to play in the final so go and do your worst is clearly the message. Truly unbelievable and yet entirely expected at the same time . Farcical doesn't begin to cover it. Genuinely, I wish Connolly and Dublin the best of luck today but this is not a good day for the game imho.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 7:07:37 GMT
It is a complete embarrassment for the gaa truth be told.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 5, 2015 7:34:46 GMT
How long have I been telling ye these are kangaroo courts. I lost total respect for Croke Park post Galvingate one and two. Respect isn't flippant, you don't just win it back easily.
Like the farce of the black card needing to be done away with, these disciplinary procedures need to dismantled thrown in the bin and replaced with something fit for purpose.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2015 7:48:28 GMT
But, but, but... Dublin are going to lose now. Eventually teams are going to figure out that appealing bans hinders rather than helps. I think Kerry have copped that.
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thepope
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Post by thepope on Sept 5, 2015 8:05:57 GMT
To free Connolly to play is a scandalous decision, not surprising but an absolute scandal.
Any county with a decent legal team should be able to get any player off a striking ban in the future, citing precedent.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 5, 2015 8:09:54 GMT
Sat, Sep 5, 2015, 07:37
Dublin footballer Diarmuid Connolly has been cleared to play in this evening’s All-Ireland semi-final replay against Mayo at Croke Park. The shock decision emerged in the early hours of this morning after a hearing before the GAA’s independent arbitration tribunal, the Disputes Resolution Authority.
All three levels of the GAA’s disciplinary process had found that Connolly should serve a one-match suspension as a result of the red card shown to him by referee Joe McQuillan in last weekend’s drawn encounter for hitting Mayo’s Lee Keegan.
The outcome will have come as a major boost for manager Jim Gavin, as the player, a current All Star has been the county’s best forward this season. Dublin will also feel vindicated in their decision to pursue this matter every step of the way.
Andy Moran celebrates scoring a late equalising point for his side to forace a replay in the All-Ireland senior football championship semi-final between Dublin and Mayo. Photo: Ryan Byrne/INPHOStunning late comeback helps Mayo keep the dream alive
Diarmuid Connolly has lost his appeal against the one game suspension he received following his red card during Dublin’s All-Ireland semi-final draw with Mayo. Photograph: InphoDiarmuid Connolly loses appeal against suspension
Marching on Croke Park: Mayo will be hoping to exploit the lack of self-confidence which seems to have affected Dublin’s players this year. Photograph: Ryan Byrne/InphoDublin have it all to do as Mayo seek to finish the job No details of the determination have been released – it will be published in due course on the DRA website – but the suspension imposed by last Wednesday’s Central Hearings Committee has been quashed and Connolly is free to play in the semi-final.
The news will come as a devastating blow to the GAA’s disciplinary system, which has already been under scrutiny after another player – coincidentally from Mayo, Kevin Keane – was not suspended also after being red-carded for striking an opponent, Donegal’s Michael Murphy when his case went to the CHC.
A year ago another Mayo player, by further coincidence Lee Keegan who was involved in the incident which saw Connolly sent off, wasn’t suspended after being sent off in the drawn All-Ireland semi-final against Kerry. As has been widely pointed out, this is the second time that Connolly has escaped without suspension for being dismissed in an All-Ireland semi-final.
Four years ago he was cleared to play in the final despite having been red carded for striking Donegal’s Marty Boyle.
The inability of the GAA’s extensively re-modelled disciplinary system to make the obvious suspensions stick now raises questions as to whether the structures, which over the past nine years have largely worked satisfactorily, are still fit for purpose.
It was 10 years ago that the DRA was established to provide a forum for reviewing matters that might previously have ended up in the courts. In that is has been undeniably successful, as only one GAA decision since 2005 has been successfully challenged in the courts and that was overturned on appeal.
Until the determination is published, it has to be assumed that the decision early this morning is the same as would have been reached had Connolly gone to the High Court seeking an injunction. Yet the chairs of both committees that approved the suspension, Liam Keane of the CHC and Matt Shaw of the Central Appeals Committee are practising lawyers and are also both former secretaries of the DRA.
There isn’t much the GAA can do about this in the short term but further rule changes may become inevitable. In the meantime the disciplinary apparatus looks as if it will be well worked in the months to come, as recent events are likely to encourage anyone punished for breaches of rule to try their luck rather than accept the consequences of their misbehaviour.
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