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Post by playitfair on Aug 3, 2015 12:10:50 GMT
We will see a different Dublin in the semi probably against Mayo. They are planning to peak twice this year, semi and final ?Jim Gavin is a shrewd operator and the last couple of results will dampen the hype. I believe that this was by design. I agree, it struck me that Dublin were a little heavy legged. Struggled to get back when they had to.
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Post by southward on Aug 3, 2015 12:51:06 GMT
Had to laugh at TSG bemoaning the free count in Fermanagh's favour (24-3 or something like). It was evidence of anti-Dublin refereeing, apparently. If that stat was against Kerry, you can imagine the slant that would be put on it - dark arts, systematic fouling. cynical Kerrymen etc, etc.
I thought Des was going to have a panic attack when Shane Curran started on about the Catholic Church and Fianna Fáil.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 15:18:39 GMT
Had to laugh at TSG bemoaning the free count in Fermanagh's favour (24-3 or something like). It was evidence of anti-Dublin refereeing, apparently. If that stat was against Kerry, you can imagine the slant that would be put on it - dark arts, systematic fouling. cynical Kerrymen etc, etc. I thought Des was going to have a panic attack when Shane Curran started on about the Catholic Church and Fianna Fáil. Was the game refereed fairly or was there a bias?
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Post by donegalman on Aug 3, 2015 15:29:51 GMT
I was interested in the free count when I heard about the figures as well. It shows that the powers that be are in a bit of a trap when it comes to officiating these games. If you ref them to the letter of the law, then you are opening the door to an absolute white wash for 70 minutes. It is a lot easier to keep the game watchable, if at least you give a smaller team the benefit of the doubt when it comes to some decisions.
Another factor in the free count was the sheer physical size of the dublin team compared to the fermanagh lads. There was a big difference. If you are a small man, and go into a tackle you can get away with a lot more than if it were vice versa. Similarly, if you are receiving a tackle and you are smaller it can look more punishing than if there were parity in size.
This style of reffing is all that can be expected, and only is an issue when an underdog is more evenly matched to a favorite, and still gets many of the borderline calls. No doubt, there will be a talking point before the end of the summer.
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Post by donegalman on Aug 3, 2015 15:31:13 GMT
To answer jackeen, I think there was a good deal of bias.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 3, 2015 15:43:13 GMT
Did the Sunday Game highlight Cluxton roaring into the umpires face after his own goal like they highlighted Paul Geaney after his goal against Cork? Any calls for a black card for Cluxton?
I thought not.
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Post by donegalman on Aug 3, 2015 15:48:21 GMT
Did the Sunday Game highlight Cluxton roaring into the umpires face after his own goal like they highlighted Paul Geaney after his goal against Cork? Any calls for a black card for Cluxton? I thought not. Surly this was an extra ordinary case. There is a difference between someone sledging and someone who reacts like this. I think that if a player is getting a torrid time by a defender (outside the rules), and scores against him, and says something to rub it in to his marker, it is hardly the same thing as the verbals we are coming to hate in the game.
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Post by southward on Aug 3, 2015 16:53:57 GMT
Had to laugh at TSG bemoaning the free count in Fermanagh's favour (24-3 or something like). It was evidence of anti-Dublin refereeing, apparently. If that stat was against Kerry, you can imagine the slant that would be put on it - dark arts, systematic fouling. cynical Kerrymen etc, etc. I thought Des was going to have a panic attack when Shane Curran started on about the Catholic Church and Fianna Fáil. Was the game refereed fairly or was there a bias? Not saying the ref wasn't a little easy on Fermanagh, Jackeen, or that Dublin were dirty in any way; they weren't. Just making the point that Brolly & co would have jumped on that kind of stat to vilify Kerry if it was them. Fair play to Whelo for getting the spoke in. I can only imagine the ref had turned away from the play for the Cluxton og; certainly couldn't have been paying attention anyway. He'll be a bit embarrassed about it, I'm sure, but what harm, the game was over and it livened things up a bit. Can't say I recall any other of what you could call terrible decisions.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Aug 3, 2015 17:15:51 GMT
With all due respect to Fermanagh I think that everyone in the GAA world were expecting Dublin to hammer them by something like 17 to 20 points. Maybe Dublin deliberately didn't want to that and wanted to take move some of the attention on them away. Maybe they deliberately went out to win by just a few points, but even if they did they conceded a large score to a division 3 team, even if you take out the controversial goal. Dublin's defensive structure is non existent and the current strategy seems to be to attack only and outscore the opponents. Dublin were on top everywhere else on the field but their backlines were exposed time and again by Fermanagh. The Dubs restricted Longford to 10 points, Kildare to 14 and Westmeath to 6, but those 3 teams all seemed set up for damage control, trying to keep the score low. If a team really puts it up to Dublin they might still lose, but like Fermanagh they can do so with a nice score. I expect Mayo or Donegal to really put it up to Dublin and if it's Mayo I think they might just have too much for an untested Dublin side.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 17:18:12 GMT
Refs job is to be impartial, not make a spectacle of the game. We often see teams getting decisions when the game appears to be going away from them. When teams comes back, those soft decisions can be the difference in the end. I remember mayo v Dublin in 2006. Dublin were running away with the game until the every decision started to go against them and the rest is history. Mayo were very good that day in the second half, but the refs decisions caught up on Dublin. As for the Fermanagh's first goal, it appears neither the umpires or the ref knew the rules. No matter now, but you'd think after the Meath/louth Leinster final a few years back that the Gaa would get their act together.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 3, 2015 17:20:01 GMT
Young Fenton is a decent mid. I thought Cluxton was understandably annoyed. I don't think it was quite shouting in the umpire's face, he did give him a lash, but it was ref's bad call.
Quigley did a bit more than not get out of Cluxton's way, it was a free out and in a tight game there would have been murder. Quigley certainly had the right to block him coming out but not push him into the net.
What annoyed me about the second goal was that it was a complete fcuk up by Cluxton and seemingly basic comms were missing. Cluxton owns that area and should have cleared house and everything with it. Maybe just a freak aberration but looked terrible and it should have been highlighted given the focus the first goal got and given the due credit he always gets. It will have been noted by remaining teams.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 18:09:24 GMT
With all due respect to Fermanagh I think that everyone in the GAA world were expecting Dublin to hammer them by something like 17 to 20 points. Maybe Dublin deliberately didn't want to that and wanted to take move some of the attention on them away. Maybe they deliberately went out to win by just a few points, but even if they did they conceded a large score to a division 3 team, even if you take out the controversial goal. Dublin's defensive structure is non existent and the current strategy seems to be to attack only and outscore the opponents. Dublin were on top everywhere else on the field but their backlines were exposed time and again by Fermanagh. The Dubs restricted Longford to 10 points, Kildare to 14 and Westmeath to 6, but those 3 teams all seemed set up for damage control, trying to keep the score low. If a team really puts it up to Dublin they might still lose, but like Fermanagh they can do so with a nice score. I expect Mayo or Donegal to really put it up to Dublin and if it's Mayo I think they might just have too much for an untested Dublin side. Agree with most of the above. Dublin still leaving huge gaps on the flanks of their defense. Midfield is unsettled with the first choice a 21 year old who will get a harder ride in coming games. MDMA is struggling for form as is flynner. I think mayo will beat donegal and I'd fear for Dublin in the semi. Kerry have one hand on Sam at this stagr
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Aug 3, 2015 18:28:07 GMT
With all due respect to Fermanagh I think that everyone in the GAA world were expecting Dublin to hammer them by something like 17 to 20 points. Maybe Dublin deliberately didn't want to that and wanted to take move some of the attention on them away. Maybe they deliberately went out to win by just a few points, but even if they did they conceded a large score to a division 3 team, even if you take out the controversial goal. Dublin's defensive structure is non existent and the current strategy seems to be to attack only and outscore the opponents. Dublin were on top everywhere else on the field but their backlines were exposed time and again by Fermanagh. The Dubs restricted Longford to 10 points, Kildare to 14 and Westmeath to 6, but those 3 teams all seemed set up for damage control, trying to keep the score low. If a team really puts it up to Dublin they might still lose, but like Fermanagh they can do so with a nice score. I expect Mayo or Donegal to really put it up to Dublin and if it's Mayo I think they might just have too much for an untested Dublin side. Agree with most of the above. Dublin still leaving huge gaps on the flanks of their defense. Midfield is unsettled with the first choice a 21 year old who will get a harder ride in coming games. MDMA is struggling for form as is flynner. I think mayo will beat donegal and I'd fear for Dublin in the semi. Kerry have one hand on Sam at this stagr I'm sure Monaghan will try to prevent that. Kerry's chances are better, but I wouldn't rule Monaghan out. Dublin have a lot of work to do and if they face Donegal I think they will do it as they seem to have focused a lot on last year's semi final defeat. I think Mayo will have to much for Donegal though and if Dublin face Mayo the 2 O'Shea's will destroy Dublin. Mayo are still lacking in the scoring division but they are hungry for goals and their backs are actually better scorers than some of their forwards. Dublin have not been tested yet and a good test might give them the preparation they need for the final, but if they play Mayo in the semi final I think that serious test comes too early. I'm still hoping for a Dublin Kerry final though
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 18:50:07 GMT
Agree with most of the above. Dublin still leaving huge gaps on the flanks of their defense. Midfield is unsettled with the first choice a 21 year old who will get a harder ride in coming games. MDMA is struggling for form as is flynner. I think mayo will beat donegal and I'd fear for Dublin in the semi. Kerry have one hand on Sam at this stagr I'm sure Monaghan will try to prevent that. Kerry's chances are better, but I wouldn't rule Monaghan out. Dublin have a lot of work to do and if they face Donegal I think they will do it as they seem to have focused a lot on last year's semi final defeat. I think Mayo will have to much for Donegal though and if Dublin face Mayo the 2 O'Shea's will destroy Dublin. Mayo are still lacking in the scoring division but they are hungry for goals and their backs are actually better scorers than some of their forwards. Dublin have not been tested yet and a good test might give them the preparation they need for the final, but if they play Mayo in the semi final I think that serious test comes too early. I'm still hoping for a Dublin Kerry final though I want the same final. Sounds terrible and the rest of the country may hate us for it, but to meet and beat kerry feels like a real all ireland. Anything else feels a little empty
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Aug 3, 2015 18:56:19 GMT
Had to laugh at TSG bemoaning the free count in Fermanagh's favour (24-3 or something like). It was evidence of anti-Dublin refereeing, apparently. If that stat was against Kerry, you can imagine the slant that would be put on it - dark arts, systematic fouling. cynical Kerrymen etc, etc. I thought Des was going to have a panic attack when Shane Curran started on about the Catholic Church and Fianna Fáil. I thought that the referee gave every assistance to Fermanagh yesterday,he made countless calls for frees that simply weren't. It didn't influence the final result but you have to be professional and deal with teams impartially. Padraig o Sullivan shouldn't get a championship game for a while based on yesterday's performance. While Coldrick had a good game and got his calls right for the most part, I thought that his refereeing in regard to Jameso yesterday was shambolic. He let the man be hit, pulled, dragged and body chrcked off the ball and in possession. Ollie Lyons had carte Blanche yesterday and to my eye, he committed at least 5 fouls that went unpunished,in the first half. Nice one Joe.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Aug 3, 2015 18:57:20 GMT
I'm sure Monaghan will try to prevent that. Kerry's chances are better, but I wouldn't rule Monaghan out. Dublin have a lot of work to do and if they face Donegal I think they will do it as they seem to have focused a lot on last year's semi final defeat. I think Mayo will have to much for Donegal though and if Dublin face Mayo the 2 O'Shea's will destroy Dublin. Mayo are still lacking in the scoring division but they are hungry for goals and their backs are actually better scorers than some of their forwards. Dublin have not been tested yet and a good test might give them the preparation they need for the final, but if they play Mayo in the semi final I think that serious test comes too early. I'm still hoping for a Dublin Kerry final though I want the same final. Sounds terrible and the rest of the country may hate us for it, but to meet and beat kerry feels like a real all ireland. Anything else feels a little empty I know, but I can assure you must Kerry people feel the same. Very happy still to win an All Ireland, but they are sweeter if it's against Dublin. That much harder to take if we lose though.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 19:06:04 GMT
I want the same final. Sounds terrible and the rest of the country may hate us for it, but to meet and beat kerry feels like a real all ireland. Anything else feels a little empty I know, but I can assure you must Kerry people feel the same. Very happy still to win an All Ireland, but they are sweeter if it's against Dublin. That much harder to take if we lose though. The pain and the ecstacy for loser and winner like no other
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 19:44:00 GMT
Nothing much between dubs and Kerry if they meet it be all on the day some small turning point. As for the o shea s to destroy Dublin they need to do Donegal first. Dublin have met and beaten every team in the championship left in recent years so not sure why they are tagged as untested. Kerry s win over Kildare was farcical and really if I was a Kerry fan I be concerned that a poor cork team almost and really should have beaten you. What won it for you last year will not be enough this time. The dubs have not gotten into their stride yet.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 3, 2015 19:57:18 GMT
Mayo have improved since 2013 Kerry have improved dramatically since 2013 Donegal are more or less the same as 2014... maybe better with MacNiallais and with McGlynn at wing back Dublin... where exactly is the improvement since 2013.
I wont be surprised if the Dubs don't make the final provided the opposition managers get their tactics right.
Not forgetting Monaghan and Tyrone.... I think Tyrone might beat Monaghan as Tyrone are more of a Croke Park team but both need another year or two to reach the level of the above four.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 20:29:50 GMT
Mayo have improved since 2013 Kerry have improved dramatically since 2013 Donegal are more or less the same as 2014... maybe better with MacNiallais and with McGlynn at wing back Dublin... where exactly is the improvement since 2013. I wont be surprised if the Dubs don't make the final provided the opposition managers get their tactics right. Not forgetting Monaghan and Tyrone.... I think Tyrone might beat Monaghan as Tyrone are more of a Croke Park team but both need another year or two to reach the level of the above four. I don't share your view here. I think kerry were better in 2013 and played some brilliant football in the semi against the eventual champions. No disrespect to Cork, but kerry haven't played anyone decent yet this year. I do agree that mayo are better and were unlucky last year through a mix of misfortune, bad refereeing and kerry's guile. As for Dublin, they were far better in 2014 than 2013, save for the donegal match where they got caught out. We don't know where they are this year. Having said that, they'll need some serious improvements improvement for the semi
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Post by southward on Aug 3, 2015 20:52:58 GMT
Mayo have improved since 2013 Kerry have improved dramatically since 2013 Donegal are more or less the same as 2014... maybe better with MacNiallais and with McGlynn at wing back Dublin... where exactly is the improvement since 2013. I wont be surprised if the Dubs don't make the final provided the opposition managers get their tactics right. Not forgetting Monaghan and Tyrone.... I think Tyrone might beat Monaghan as Tyrone are more of a Croke Park team but both need another year or two to reach the level of the above four. I don't share your view here. I think kerry were better in 2013 and played some brilliant football in the semi against the eventual champions. No disrespect to Cork, but kerry haven't played anyone decent yet this year. I do agree that mayo are better and were unlucky last year through a mix of misfortune, bad refereeing and kerry's guile. As for Dublin, they were far better in 2014 than 2013, save for the donegal match where they got caught out. We don't know where they are this year. Having said that, they'll need some serious improvements improvement for the semi The Mayo and referees myth; it's one of those things where if people say it often enough, it becomes accepted fact. It's a load of b*llocks. Have a look at the replay and you'll see Mayo getting at least as much from the ref as Kerry, including a phantom free that nearly won it at the end of normal time. Have a look at the drawn game too - you'll see Mayo getting everything that day after Keegan's sending off; there would never have been a replay otherwise. Agree re Kerry/Dublin final btw; it should be a good game of football for sure. Kerry/Mayo would be good too. Anything else would probably be like last year's.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 3, 2015 20:59:37 GMT
I don't share your view here. I think kerry were better in 2013 and played some brilliant football in the semi against the eventual champions. No disrespect to Cork, but kerry haven't played anyone decent yet this year. I do agree that mayo are better and were unlucky last year through a mix of misfortune, bad refereeing and kerry's guile. As for Dublin, they were far better in 2014 than 2013, save for the donegal match where they got caught out. We don't know where they are this year. Having said that, they'll need some serious improvements improvement for the semi The Mayo and referees myth; it's one of those things where if people say it often enough, it becomes accepted fact. It's a load of b*llocks. Have a look at the replay and you'll see Mayo getting at least as much from the ref as Kerry, including a phantom free that nearly won it at the end of normal time. Have a look at the drawn game too - you'll see Mayo getting everything that day after Keegan's sending off; there would never have been a replay otherwise. Agree re Kerry/Dublin final btw; it should be a good game of football for sure. Kerry/Mayo would be good too. Anything else would probably be like last year's. Too true and won't ever forget that "free" he gave Mayo in the replay which you mention. It all stems back to 1996 and the notion that Mchale was wronged!
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Post by sinkthelead on Aug 3, 2015 21:04:19 GMT
Young Fenton is a decent mid. I thought Cluxton was understandably annoyed. I don't think it was quite shouting in the umpire's face, he did give him a lash, but it was ref's bad call. Quigley did a bit more than not get out of Cluxton's way, it was a free out and in a tight game there would have been murder. Quigley certainly had the right to block him coming out but not push him into the net. What annoyed me about the second goal was that it was a complete fcuk up by Cluxton and seemingly basic comms were missing. Cluxton owns that area and should have cleared house and everything with it. Maybe just a freak aberration but looked terrible and it should have been highlighted given the focus the first goal got and given the due credit he always gets. It will have been noted by remaining teams. I think Cluxton deliberately pulled out of hoofing the ball for the second goal so as not to injure his own player , no point taking the risk at that stage
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Post by southward on Aug 3, 2015 21:07:15 GMT
Welcome back, Seamo.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 3, 2015 21:19:25 GMT
Young Fenton is a decent mid. I thought Cluxton was understandably annoyed. I don't think it was quite shouting in the umpire's face, he did give him a lash, but it was ref's bad call. Quigley did a bit more than not get out of Cluxton's way, it was a free out and in a tight game there would have been murder. Quigley certainly had the right to block him coming out but not push him into the net. What annoyed me about the second goal was that it was a complete fcuk up by Cluxton and seemingly basic comms were missing. Cluxton owns that area and should have cleared house and everything with it. Maybe just a freak aberration but looked terrible and it should have been highlighted given the focus the first goal got and given the due credit he always gets. It will have been noted by remaining teams. I think Cluxton deliberately pulled out of hoofing the ball for the second goal so as not to injure his own player , no point taking the risk at that stage lol Come on! He pulled out of it because he thought his teammate was going to pull on it. There was no goal v's potential injury dilemma. Cluxton was 100% at fault, it's his area he had a view of everything ahead of him. He should have taken responsibility of the situation (as goalkeeper and has experienced leader of the team) by calling it as his own ball and picking the ball up/booting it away. Cluxton tends to get a pass on these kind of things because of his kickouts. If that was Kiely or anyother goalkeeper... enjoy retirement!!! lol
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 3, 2015 21:28:09 GMT
I don't share your view here. I think kerry were better in 2013 and played some brilliant football in the semi against the eventual champions. No disrespect to Cork, but kerry haven't played anyone decent yet this year. I do agree that mayo are better and were unlucky last year through a mix of misfortune, bad refereeing and kerry's guile. As for Dublin, they were far better in 2014 than 2013, save for the donegal match where they got caught out. We don't know where they are this year. Having said that, they'll need some serious improvements improvement for the semi The Mayo and referees myth; it's one of those things where if people say it often enough, it becomes accepted fact. It's a load of b*llocks. Have a look at the replay and you'll see Mayo getting at least as much from the ref as Kerry, including a phantom free that nearly won it at the end of normal time. Have a look at the drawn game too - you'll see Mayo getting everything that day after Keegan's sending off; there would never have been a replay otherwise. Agree re Kerry/Dublin final btw; it should be a good game of football for sure. Kerry/Mayo would be good too. Anything else would probably be like last year's. Sorry lads, I can't agree. Keegan was wrongly sent off which probably cost mayo the game. In replay, Enright should been off for his pull down. He was already on a yellow. A black would have made it a red leaving kerry with 14 for most of the game. When mayo were ahead by two in extra time, they were pulled back by two ghost frees. Anyway, no point in revisiting this. We'll never agree. Besides you may well get to settle it with mayo in September
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 3, 2015 22:59:57 GMT
Mayo were never winning that semi-final last year. They just can't win the biggest games. Dublin should even have beaten them in 2012, despite falling 10 points behind. Having said all that Mayo have produced the best performance of any team so far this summer, against Sligo, along with Kerry against Kildare
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 3, 2015 23:49:15 GMT
Back with lol, welcome back indeed
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 3, 2015 23:55:33 GMT
Mayo were never winning that semi-final last year. They just can't win the biggest games. Dublin should even have beaten them in 2012, despite falling 10 points behind. Having said all that Mayo have produced the best performance of any team so far this summer, against Sligo, along with Kerry against Kildare I'm pretty sure they had the drawn game bagged. As for 2012 Dublin finished like a train but I thought Mayo were better on the day, not sure the should applies when conceding a ten point lead, although if say extra time was on the cards Dublin likely would have won. "If" - a nawful bollix of word when bandied in sporting parlance
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 3, 2015 23:57:50 GMT
I think Cluxton deliberately pulled out of hoofing the ball for the second goal so as not to injure his own player , no point taking the risk at that stage lol Come on! He pulled out of it because he thought his teammate was going to pull on it. There was no goal v's potential injury dilemma. Cluxton was 100% at fault, it's his area he had a view of everything ahead of him. He should have taken responsibility of the situation (as goalkeeper and has experienced leader of the team) by calling it as his own ball and picking the ball up/booting it away. Cluxton tends to get a pass on these kind of things because of his kickouts. If that was Kiely or anyother goalkeeper... enjoy retirement!!! lol A 'Cluxtercuss' or 'Cluxterfcuk' moment. Rare beast, have to call it when it raises its head.
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