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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 16, 2015 14:21:33 GMT
Thank feck I never go in there! KG how do Kerry keep that edge and always reinvent the success? It must be something spiritual rashers, deep from within. The opposite side of the coin equally fascinates me as to why the Dublin hurlers, Kildare and Mayo footballers, for example can't win an Ireland. What do you think yourself? Now you are just baiting!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 17, 2015 0:08:23 GMT
Thank feck I never go in there! KG how do Kerry keep that edge and always reinvent the success? It must be something spiritual rashers, deep from within. The opposite side of the coin equally fascinates me as to why the Dublin hurlers, Kildare and Mayo footballers, for example can't win an Ireland. What do you think yourself? I think they want it more than any other county, more of the time. Pretty much what Mickmack said
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Post by southward on Jan 17, 2015 19:19:08 GMT
Yes, Rashers, not being smart but I do think perhaps it matters more to us than to most. I always got the sense that if/when the Dubs were knocked out - there was disappointment, sure, but then something else came along and it was soon forgotten for another year. That's a generalisation, I know. If Kerry lose in the Championship, it's not forgotten and I think the pain runs a little deeper too. A year without an AI down here feels like a year that you don't get a summer - you may have had a heatwave this year but that's no consolation if you're looking out at the rain next July.
Also, something Kieran Donaghy once said in an interview some time after winning his 2nd celtic cross. The interview was in Tralee town centre where he works and the journalist was asking how he got on with stardom. Donaghy answered by talking about how he'd regularly run into fellas like Mike Sheehy, Seanie Walsh, Daragh O'Shea, Moynihan and many others from different generations in the street - all multiple AI winners. And he said "Look, I've two All-Irelands; you wouldn't want to be getting a big head around here with that, people would laugh at you". Wise thinking from a then young fella and it is surely a part of the recipe too. No one is retiring to bask in the glory of one day in the sun.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 17, 2015 21:18:46 GMT
It must be something spiritual rashers, deep from within. The opposite side of the coin equally fascinates me as to why the Dublin hurlers, Kildare and Mayo footballers, for example can't win an Ireland. What do you think yourself? Now you are just baiting! 'scaul your dissertation on Kildare football 2000-2014 is due about now? Apparently no room for a fence.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 17, 2015 21:25:56 GMT
One of these days a Galway or a Meath will come out of nowhere, in fact you could put Cork in that category. But I can't see any of those 3 win Sam before they lose one, if you know what I mean. Possibly Cork might. Of the Ulster teams I think Armagh could well become contenders. And I wouldn't write off Monaghan just yet. They need changes but have the basis of a that could get to a semi at least. How will Donegal handle the loss of JMG and maybe some old warriors? If they adopt a more attacking type of play it should freshen up their squad and with the confidence of the last few years behind them they could yet be a force. Mayo could be the Dublin 1990s or Armagh 90s/00s of this era. If they keep coming back they may get over the line. Their defeats in 2 semis and 2 finals is a very similar record to Dublin in the 90s, almost identical. Kerry having won Sam with so many new lads and some older lads freshened up could buck the trend of champions being down a level the following year. They still don't have massive expectation on them, which suits them down to the ground, and with the Gooch and TWalsh back they could even bit a bit better overall. Dublin will surely produce a massive effort but must have alot of doubts in their minds about the way they lost last year, especially to go out so meekly in the end. Those doubts will persist about how they handle the biggest challenges mentally. And how they handle a possible change in style of play. There will be no comfort-zone for them this year. This surely represents the last best chance of this group to win another All-I, like Tyrone in the previous decade. Meath's one of these days will require a telescope not yet designed in a dream, to see. They're in bad place. Let's see on Galway but they need some cold steel spine, not seen for 14 year. Cork won't go away and will be a match for any team on their day but they do look disjointed and lacking a couple of standout gems.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 17, 2015 22:02:25 GMT
It must be something spiritual rashers, deep from within. The opposite side of the coin equally fascinates me as to why the Dublin hurlers, Kildare and Mayo footballers, for example can't win an Ireland. What do you think yourself? Now you are just baiting! Not baiting, just a genuine interest as to why some counties can't win an All-Ireland, Roscommon, Mayo and Kildare are the only counties to have contested a losing All-Ireland final since the '70 (maybe even longer) and have not come back to win one. On a second level there are a whole collection of counties that can't win a provincial championship.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 17, 2015 22:04:38 GMT
One of these days a Galway or a Meath will come out of nowhere, in fact you could put Cork in that category. But I can't see any of those 3 win Sam before they lose one, if you know what I mean. Possibly Cork might. Of the Ulster teams I think Armagh could well become contenders. And I wouldn't write off Monaghan just yet. They need changes but have the basis of a that could get to a semi at least. How will Donegal handle the loss of JMG and maybe some old warriors? If they adopt a more attacking type of play it should freshen up their squad and with the confidence of the last few years behind them they could yet be a force. Mayo could be the Dublin 1990s or Armagh 90s/00s of this era. If they keep coming back they may get over the line. Their defeats in 2 semis and 2 finals is a very similar record to Dublin in the 90s, almost identical. Kerry having won Sam with so many new lads and some older lads freshened up could buck the trend of champions being down a level the following year. They still don't have massive expectation on them, which suits them down to the ground, and with the Gooch and TWalsh back they could even bit a bit better overall. Dublin will surely produce a massive effort but must have alot of doubts in their minds about the way they lost last year, especially to go out so meekly in the end. Those doubts will persist about how they handle the biggest challenges mentally. And how they handle a possible change in style of play. There will be no comfort-zone for them this year. This surely represents the last best chance of this group to win another All-I, like Tyrone in the previous decade. Meath's one of these days will require a telescope not yet designed in a dream, to see. They're in bad place. Let's see on Galway but they need some cold steel spine, not seen for 14 year. Cork won't go away and will be a match for any team on their day but they do look disjointed and lacking a couple of standout gems. Leinster football is in a dire place, Kildare, Meath and Offaly are gone AWOL.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 17, 2015 22:11:36 GMT
Yes, Rashers, not being smart but I do think perhaps it matters more to us than to most. I always got the sense that if/when the Dubs were knocked out - there was disappointment, sure, but then something else came along and it was soon forgotten for another year. That's a generalisation, I know. If Kerry lose in the Championship, it's not forgotten and I think the pain runs a little deeper too. A year without an AI down here feels like a year that you don't get a summer - you may have had a heatwave this year but that's no consolation if you're looking out at the rain next July. Also, something Kieran Donaghy once said in an interview some time after winning his 2nd celtic cross. The interview was in Tralee town centre where he works and the journalist was asking how he got on with stardom. Donaghy answered by talking about how he'd regularly run into fellas like Mike Sheehy, Seanie Walsh, Daragh O'Shea, Moynihan and many others from different generations in the street - all multiple AI winners. And he said "Look, I've two All-Irelands; you wouldn't want to be getting a big head around here with that, people would laugh at you". Wise thinking from a then young fella and it is surely a part of the recipe too. No one is retiring to bask in the glory of one day in the sun. A huge year for Kieran Donaghy, he changed the face of the'06 and '14 championships. Captaining Kerry to back to back championships and his 5th medal would propel him into prince of the pigskin territory and legendary status in his home town. Five medal would be what he termed a "collection" some time back in the mid '00s.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 19, 2015 10:20:27 GMT
Meath's one of these days will require a telescope not yet designed in a dream, to see. They're in bad place. Let's see on Galway but they need some cold steel spine, not seen for 14 year. Cork won't go away and will be a match for any team on their day but they do look disjointed and lacking a couple of standout gems. Leinster football is in a dire place, Kildare, Meath and Offaly are gone AWOL. 5 Leinster teams have won their provincial title in the last 15 years, and it should have been 6 only for the Sludden ruling. Only 2 Munster teams have won theirs in the last 22 years, and only 3 in how many? Only 4 Ulster teams have won theirs since 1998. Ok I know multiple winners doesn't always equal the highest standard but still, lets put it in context. And yes, Leinster was very weak the last 3 years, apart from Dublin. As regards counties not coming back from losing finals to win one, I think it's simply a question of teams, the county factor is almost irrelevant. The Cork team of the last decade had just enough quality there consistently to get over the line, albeit they had to beat a not outstanding Down team by one point in the final. The famous Armagh team had more quality than that Cork team but still just scraped over the line, albeit against clearly better opposition than Cork had. The Kildare team of the 90s (who didn't have the quality to the recent Cork team, who won 4 Nat Leagues in a row. Kildare won none) lost out because there was a better Galway team that emerged. You can say they were unlucky with injuries in 98 but I don't think they would have withstood that Galway burst anyway. If Kildare had reached a final without having to play an outstanding team in any given year, and not in the final either, they probably would have won. Down only last that 2010 final because Cork were that bit hungrier and more experienced. And another thing about that much pitied Kildare team, would they have got as far as they did with John O'Mahony as coach instead of Micko? The Dublin 90s team scraped over the line because they didn't face a really outstanding team in 95. After 7 years of pushing the rock up the hill. (The Rock was ON the Hill at that stage ) The Derry team in 93 were outstanding I think it is generally agreed. They beat at least one outstanding team and two very seriously good and experienced teams to win their first ever Sam. The Donegal 92 team were not quite outstanding but they did beat an outstanding team in Ulster and then got a certainly not outstanding Dublin team in the final after one of the worst semi-finals in history. Rossies in the 80s and 90s were not quite as good as Offaly, I think that's agreed. And Offaly got a lucky break that scraped them their one All-I. Cork in that era, and Galway, were simply not good enough. Mayo of the last two decades were not quite good enough but the current squad could do it. They need to get to one more final and come up against a not outstanding team in the final. The simple fact with teams, using Kerry as the litmus paper, the teams with the most naturally gifted footballers will win more. Kerry have had consistently the most naturally gifted players, allied to the right balance of motivation, intelligence, training, tactics and organisation.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 20, 2015 16:55:45 GMT
Leinster football is in a dire place, Kildare, Meath and Offaly are gone AWOL. 5 Leinster teams have won their provincial title in the last 15 years, and it should have been 6 only for the Sludden ruling. Only 2 Munster teams have won theirs in the last 22 years, and only 3 in how many? Only 4 Ulster teams have won theirs since 1998. Ok I know multiple winners doesn't always equal the highest standard but still, lets put it in context. And yes, Leinster was very weak the last 3 years, apart from Dublin. As regards counties not coming back from losing finals to win one, I think it's simply a question of teams, the county factor is almost irrelevant. The Cork team of the last decade had just enough quality there consistently to get over the line, albeit they had to beat a not outstanding Down team by one point in the final. The famous Armagh team had more quality than that Cork team but still just scraped over the line, albeit against clearly better opposition than Cork had. The Kildare team of the 90s (who didn't have the quality to the recent Cork team, who won 4 Nat Leagues in a row. Kildare won none) lost out because there was a better Galway team that emerged. You can say they were unlucky with injuries in 98 but I don't think they would have withstood that Galway burst anyway. If Kildare had reached a final without having to play an outstanding team in any given year, and not in the final either, they probably would have won. Down only last that 2010 final because Cork were that bit hungrier and more experienced.
And another thing about that much pitied Kildare team, would they have got as far as they did with John O'Mahony as coach instead of Micko?The Dublin 90s team scraped over the line because they didn't face a really outstanding team in 95. After 7 years of pushing the rock up the hill. (The Rock was ON the Hill at that stage ) The Derry team in 93 were outstanding I think it is generally agreed. They beat at least one outstanding team and two very seriously good and experienced teams to win their first ever Sam. The Donegal 92 team were not quite outstanding but they did beat an outstanding team in Ulster and then got a certainly not outstanding Dublin team in the final after one of the worst semi-finals in history. Rossies in the 80s and 90s were not quite as good as Offaly, I think that's agreed. And Offaly got a lucky break that scraped them their one All-I. Cork in that era, and Galway, were simply not good enough. Mayo of the last two decades were not quite good enough but the current squad could do it. They need to get to one more final and come up against a not outstanding team in the final. The simple fact with teams, using Kerry as the litmus paper, the teams with the most naturally gifted footballers will win more. Kerry have had consistently the most naturally gifted players, allied to the right balance of motivation, intelligence, training, tactics and organisation. That is an extraordinary sweeping statement to make regarding the "what if" about Galway's burst if Kildare players had been fully fit. We don't or can't know how Kildare's talisman, Glen Ryan, from centre half back would have dealt with the Ja Fallon's, Galway's talisman on the forty, burst in the second half if he had not ruptured his quad muscle ambling around the pitch and putt course on the morning before the final. We also can't tell for sure what impact Niall Buckley would have had on the game from midfield if fully fit. That comment possibly sums up an anti bias against anything outside of the Pale from a Dublin perspective. As regards the O'Mahony versus Dywer question, no, Kildare would not have been on the map under O'Mahony in the first place. Case closed regarding that one.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 20, 2015 19:09:02 GMT
The Kildare side of the late 90s deserved an All Ireland rashers. They knocked out the winners of 1995, 1996 and 1995 on the way to that final. All they needed was a bit of luck or a soft refereeing call in the last minute to get them over the line. Maybe something like what happened at the end of the 1995 final or the 2011 final.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 20, 2015 19:33:54 GMT
Mick- I'm not having this "deserved an All Ireland" malark- you're starting to sound like the Mayo/Cork apologists. Those who "deserve an All Ireland "- win them
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 20, 2015 21:24:58 GMT
Mick- I'm not having this "deserved an All Ireland" malark- you're starting to sound like the Mayo/Cork apologists. Those who "deserve an All Ireland "- win them I dont agree. Some great teams have never won an All Ireland. A lot depends on what other contenders happen to be there at any particular time. Roscommon in late 70s were unlucky that Kerry were strong. Other things like injuries are in the lap of the Gods. There are lost of teams that didn't win an All Ireland but deserved to do so. The current Mayo side deserve one after 2014 in my opinion. They may never win one of course.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 20, 2015 22:26:45 GMT
Mick- I'm not having this "deserved an All Ireland" malark- you're starting to sound like the Mayo/Cork apologists. Those who "deserve an All Ireland "- win them I dont agree. Some great teams have never won an All Ireland. A lot depends on what other contenders happen to be there at any particular time. Roscommon in late 70s were unlucky that Kerry were strong. Other things like injuries are in the lap of the Gods. There are lost of teams that didn't win an All Ireland but deserved to do so. The current Mayo side deserve one after 2014 in my opinion. They may never win one of course. We enjoy a hard luck story on this island more than anything else and mick I think you're being sucked in. I just don't buy the idea that teams "deserve" all irelands-every team has injuries/hard luck stories that form part of their year or development. Look at Tyrone in the last decade- they had some awful set- backs but they were winners and they did what it took to win. Mayo deserve feck all- they're not good enough and have never been good enough to win a title. I agree that lots of talented teams end up winning nothing but that will always be the case- there is something beyond talent that drives teams to win trophies
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 20, 2015 22:35:21 GMT
did Dublin deserve to win the 2011 final.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 20, 2015 22:50:12 GMT
did Dublin deserve to win the 2011 final. Winning a competition is always down to a combination of factors - first you must get to the final, you must prepare correctly, you must have and execute a game plan, you must do your best to stay in touch when the other team has its inevitable period of dominance and finally you need a bit of luck. Dublin did all those things- grand there was 1 or 2 things that I wasn't personally happy about but they did all that was required of them to get over the line and we played awfully in the last 15 mins or so. Their purple patch came at the worst possible time and we resorted to lumping aimless balls into Donaghy. On the balance of things- they got a bit of luck but every team needs that and so I'll begrudgingly let them have it. There are a lot of ifs and buts- but then again sport is littered with them. I have a question for yourself- if it hadn't been dublin would you be as angry? Mayo have come up short on 2 or more of the aforementioned factors every year- they always seem to have a sob story. We were dead and buried in croker against them- having thrown away a lead, down by 5, injuries to gooch and a starting midfielder in Sheehan going off but we weathered it and that's the difference between a team who deserve to win and the Mayos of this world
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 20, 2015 23:43:31 GMT
I don't know if the 2011 final would have bothered me less if t'was another team other than Dubin. That's irrelevant anyway to the discussion.
That game was a draw. Fair and square. No side deserved to win or lose. Enter the ref. How can you say that Dublin deserved it.
Lots of games are won and lost by an outrageous bit of luck or bad luck or a bad refereeing decision. Its simply too simplistic in my view to say that the winners always deserve to win.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 21, 2015 7:09:22 GMT
I accept that luck comes into it but it is also too simplistic/easy to say that some teams "deserve" an All Ireland.
I just don't get the concept to be honest- in saying Mayo deserve one then who didn't deserve theirs? Who are we saying is an undeserving winner- in the last few years Donegal deserved theirs, Dublin most certainly did and I don't plan on giving ours back.
Games/ seasons can be decided by luck sometimes but that can swing both ways and as I stated- every team needs some luck. A lot of the time its about how you weather that storm.
Without being too glib here- all we can do is deal in facts and that is that Mayo haven't done enough to win an all Ireland in recent years- they have been close but always lacked something and to be honest it was usually tactically.
Mick to be honest it's a bit contradictory to explain Kerry's success as being down to some inherent psychological strength and then say that teams who haven't won- deserve things. By putting it down to a psychological force then you are essentially admitting that their is a distinguishable difference between winners and losers
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 21, 2015 8:41:56 GMT
if the ref blew up when he should have at the end of the first game between Clare and Cork in 2013, Cork would have won by a point. The time was up. He called two mins and that was up when Clare took the puck out. Did Cork suddenly not deserve to win it because of a wrong decision by the ref.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 21, 2015 9:08:53 GMT
if the ref blew up when he should have at the end of the first game between Clare and Cork in 2013, Cork would have won by a point. The time was up. He called two mins and that was up when Clare took the puck out. Did Cork suddenly not deserve to win it because of a wrong decision by the ref. But there are a multitude of factors at play here- why werent they ahead by more/why didnt they stop Clare getting the point/ why did the ref play over the allotted time(because Cork were wasting time during the extra 2 mins). I actually thought that was an excellent use of discretion by the ref. You dodged my questions on Mayo deserving and All Ireland- why do they deserve one? Who do they deserve one instead of?
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 21, 2015 21:41:03 GMT
Cork didn't waste time. Not one second. They played in straight in extra time. Had the ref blown Clare could not have complained at time keeping. By your logic Cork would have deserved to win it had he blown up despite the fact that their main attacking ploy was to dive to manufacture close in frees which Nash was capable of goaling.
The two games between Kerry and Mayo in 2014 were classic contests. Little or nothing between them really. Mayo reached a certain standard in 2014 that lots of All Ireland winners haven't. For example, Mayo in 2014 were better than Cork in 2010. Like Kildare in 1998, they deserve to win an All Ireland in my opinion. A few very soft frees to Kerry in the first period of extra time plus the terrible clash of heads between OConnor and OShea were key moments and Kerrys subs in extra time....Paul Geaney and Jonathan Lyne tipped the scales. But in my opinion this Mayo team reached the required level to be deserving of ultimate success.
And, thats all I have to say on the matter.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 21, 2015 21:55:57 GMT
by the way, Rashers himself has said many times on here that Dublin should have beaten Cork in the 2010 semi final. Rashers says that the turning point was a line ball given by the linesman to Cork which led to the Cork penalty near the end. The linesman was Joe McQuillen. Tis rumoured that the GAA conducted an enquiry into the malfunction. It was just a simple programming error apparently and Joe was fully programmed correctly by the time 2011 came around.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 21, 2015 22:46:30 GMT
Cork didn't waste time. Not one second. They played in straight in extra time. Had the ref blown Clare could not have complained at time keeping. By your logic Cork would have deserved to win it had he blown up despite the fact that their main attacking ploy was to dive to manufacture close in frees which Nash was capable of goaling. The two games between Kerry and Mayo in 2014 were classic contests. Little or nothing between them really. Mayo reached a certain standard in 2014 that lots of All Ireland winners haven't. For example, Mayo in 2014 were better than Cork in 2010. Like Kildare in 1998, they deserve to win an All Ireland in my opinion. A few very soft frees to Kerry in the first period of extra time plus the terrible clash of heads between OConnor and OShea were key moments and Kerrys subs in extra time....Paul Geaney and Jonathan Lyne tipped the scales. But in my opinion this Mayo team reached the required level to be deserving of ultimate success. And, thats all I have to say on the matter. Deserved doesn't matter a toss. As in life, there are winners and there are losers. Deserving doesn't come into it and players/elites/champions don't look back and say "we deserved that". Real champions don't allow luck play a role.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 21, 2015 23:24:39 GMT
Cork didn't waste time. Not one second. They played in straight in extra time. Had the ref blown Clare could not have complained at time keeping. By your logic Cork would have deserved to win it had he blown up despite the fact that their main attacking ploy was to dive to manufacture close in frees which Nash was capable of goaling. The two games between Kerry and Mayo in 2014 were classic contests. Little or nothing between them really. Mayo reached a certain standard in 2014 that lots of All Ireland winners haven't. For example, Mayo in 2014 were better than Cork in 2010. Like Kildare in 1998, they deserve to win an All Ireland in my opinion. A few very soft frees to Kerry in the first period of extra time plus the terrible clash of heads between OConnor and OShea were key moments and Kerrys subs in extra time....Paul Geaney and Jonathan Lyne tipped the scales. But in my opinion this Mayo team reached the required level to be deserving of ultimate success. And, thats all I have to say on the matter. Deserved doesn't matter a toss. As in life, there are winners and there are losers. Deserving doesn't come into it and players/elites/champions don't look back and say "we deserved that". Real champions don't allow luck play a role. There's a pattern in the examples given- those who have lost regularly blame it on some external factor like a line- ball or free given against them. They seem to forget that these things will usually even themselves out. On the cork example- would they have even made the final but for a soft red card to king Henry in the quarter final? Their luck was in that day- maybe they didn't "deserve" to get through. It always seems to be the perennial gallant losers who deserve trophies
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jan 22, 2015 12:18:11 GMT
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 22, 2015 20:04:09 GMT
5 Leinster teams have won their provincial title in the last 15 years, and it should have been 6 only for the Sludden ruling. Only 2 Munster teams have won theirs in the last 22 years, and only 3 in how many? Only 4 Ulster teams have won theirs since 1998. Ok I know multiple winners doesn't always equal the highest standard but still, lets put it in context. And yes, Leinster was very weak the last 3 years, apart from Dublin. As regards counties not coming back from losing finals to win one, I think it's simply a question of teams, the county factor is almost irrelevant. The Cork team of the last decade had just enough quality there consistently to get over the line, albeit they had to beat a not outstanding Down team by one point in the final. The famous Armagh team had more quality than that Cork team but still just scraped over the line, albeit against clearly better opposition than Cork had. The Kildare team of the 90s (who didn't have the quality to the recent Cork team, who won 4 Nat Leagues in a row. Kildare won none) lost out because there was a better Galway team that emerged. You can say they were unlucky with injuries in 98 but I don't think they would have withstood that Galway burst anyway. If Kildare had reached a final without having to play an outstanding team in any given year, and not in the final either, they probably would have won. Down only last that 2010 final because Cork were that bit hungrier and more experienced.
And another thing about that much pitied Kildare team, would they have got as far as they did with John O'Mahony as coach instead of Micko?The Dublin 90s team scraped over the line because they didn't face a really outstanding team in 95. After 7 years of pushing the rock up the hill. (The Rock was ON the Hill at that stage ) The Derry team in 93 were outstanding I think it is generally agreed. They beat at least one outstanding team and two very seriously good and experienced teams to win their first ever Sam. The Donegal 92 team were not quite outstanding but they did beat an outstanding team in Ulster and then got a certainly not outstanding Dublin team in the final after one of the worst semi-finals in history. Rossies in the 80s and 90s were not quite as good as Offaly, I think that's agreed. And Offaly got a lucky break that scraped them their one All-I. Cork in that era, and Galway, were simply not good enough. Mayo of the last two decades were not quite good enough but the current squad could do it. They need to get to one more final and come up against a not outstanding team in the final. The simple fact with teams, using Kerry as the litmus paper, the teams with the most naturally gifted footballers will win more. Kerry have had consistently the most naturally gifted players, allied to the right balance of motivation, intelligence, training, tactics and organisation. That is an extraordinary sweeping statement to make regarding the "what if" about Galway's burst if Kildare players had been fully fit. We don't or can't know how Kildare's talisman, Glen Ryan, from centre half back would have dealt with the Ja Fallon's, Galway's talisman on the forty, burst in the second half if he had not ruptured his quad muscle ambling around the pitch and putt course on the morning before the final. We also can't tell for sure what impact Niall Buckley would have had on the game from midfield if fully fit. That comment possibly sums up an anti bias against anything outside of the Pale from a Dublin perspective. As regards the O'Mahony versus Dywer question, no, Kildare would not have been on the map under O'Mahony in the first place. Case closed regarding that one. Well you certainly made an extraordinary sweeping statement out of it old chap! Anything outside the Pale indeed? I think you'll find that The Pale included quite a bit of the current-day most populated areas of Kildare. You would also be suggesting that this gentleman and scholar and proud supporter of The Three Castles would consider the likes of The Royal County on equal par and to the exclusion of or detriment of others. Almost the equivalent of saying Kerry would prefer Cork to win over any other county! Whatever about what-ifs, here's the fact, also heretofore stated by this scholar on this very vessel of communication - Of all the other counties in Leinster, with the possible exception of the Cinderella Cill Mhantáin, I would have liked to see Kildare have success, and to generate and maintain a serious rivalry with the other top Leinster teams. What I have objected to is the never-ending mythologising of Kildare's bad luck and 'should-have-beens' since Mr. Vincent Murphy, Esquire of this Parish registered a rather fortuitous three-point score at a momentous point in the National Football League Final of 1991. Also at that time and since, Kildare supporters and associates have invested a huge input towards achieving success with the county football seniors. Without doubt it contributed to some of their progress in the ensuing period but too often has been overshadowed by an extraordinary media-friendly propoganda and inability to accept shortcomings in defeat. At the very least people's annoyance at this culture of defeatism and denial is honesty in contrast to the plamásing and condescension that weaker counties hear all too often from the power-houses of the game. Isn't it about time you got more upset about the state of football outside Kerry and Cork in Munster rather than Kildare's much-supported and resourced travails?
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 23, 2015 9:47:48 GMT
That is an extraordinary sweeping statement to make regarding the "what if" about Galway's burst if Kildare players had been fully fit. We don't or can't know how Kildare's talisman, Glen Ryan, from centre half back would have dealt with the Ja Fallon's, Galway's talisman on the forty, burst in the second half if he had not ruptured his quad muscle ambling around the pitch and putt course on the morning before the final. We also can't tell for sure what impact Niall Buckley would have had on the game from midfield if fully fit. That comment possibly sums up an anti bias against anything outside of the Pale from a Dublin perspective. As regards the O'Mahony versus Dywer question, no, Kildare would not have been on the map under O'Mahony in the first place. Case closed regarding that one. Well you certainly made an extraordinary sweeping statement out of it old chap! Anything outside the Pale indeed? I think you'll find that The Pale included quite a bit of the current-day most populated areas of Kildare. You would also be suggesting that this gentleman and scholar and proud supporter of The Three Castles would consider the likes of The Royal County on equal par and to the exclusion of or detriment of others. Almost the equivalent of saying Kerry would prefer Cork to win over any other county! Whatever about what-ifs, here's the fact, also heretofore stated by this scholar on this very vessel of communication - Of all the other counties in Leinster, with the possible exception of the Cinderella Cill Mhantáin, I would have liked to see Kildare have success, and to generate and maintain a serious rivalry with the other top Leinster teams. What I have objected to is the never-ending mythologising of Kildare's bad luck and 'should-have-beens' since Mr. Vincent Murphy, Esquire of this Parish registered a rather fortuitous three-point score at a momentous point in the National Football League Final of 1991. Also at that time and since, Kildare supporters and associates have invested a huge input towards achieving success with the county football seniors. Without doubt it contributed to some of their progress in the ensuing period but too often has been overshadowed by an extraordinary media-friendly propoganda and inability to accept shortcomings in defeat. At the very least people's annoyance at this culture of defeatism and denial is honesty in contrast to the plamásing and condescension that weaker counties hear all too often from the power-houses of the game. Isn't it about time you got more upset about the state of football outside Kerry and Cork in Munster rather than Kildare's much-supported and resourced travails? A well polished antidote to some of the refereeing decisions that went with the dubs, media campaigns promoting the dubs and some of the calls in favour of Dublin players from the various Croker bodies at Dubs Park. 10 out of 10. My own position on Kildare, they have been very unlucky under McGeeney in recent years in a number of games. Galway were the better team on the day in the '98 final and deserved to win the game. Injuries aside, Kildare did not control enough of the controllables associated with All-Ireland final day to close out the game. Much the same as Mayo have failed to do in finals also.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 23, 2015 10:28:41 GMT
Kildare do not compare with Mayo!! That is a ridiculous comparison! Mayo are a top team that fall on the day. Kildare rarely lose to teams ranked beneath them (Wicklow and Louth) and even more rarely beat teams ranked above them (only Meath in all those years by my reckoning --- whom they also lost to twice). At one stage, 2011, Kildare were ranked sixth in the country, despite the fact that the best team they had beaten were Meath!!
Since McGeeney entered the fray Kildare have beaten: Monaghan, Meath (3), Derry (2), Laois (2), Down, Cavan (2), Clare, Wexford, Fermanagh, Sligo, Louth (2), Limerick (2), Wicklow (2), Antrim, Offaly (3), Leitrim
In the same period Mayo have beaten: Dublin, Donegal, Cork (2), Galway (4), Tyrone, Roscommon (4), Down, Sligo (2), Leitrim, London (2), New York (2).
These teams are in order of the 2014 ranking. This tells us that Kildare absolutely maxed out their potential, which is admirable, but please don't compare them to the football powerhouse of Mayo who could at least consistently beat some teams of true quality (and AI winners to boot).
Mind you they also consistently lose big games but they are only in those big games because they win other big games.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 23, 2015 10:39:08 GMT
Kildare do not compare with Mayo!! That is a ridiculous comparison! Mayo are a top team that fall on the day. Kildare rarely lose to teams ranked beneath them (Wicklow and Louth) and even more rarely beat teams ranked above them (only Meath in all those years by my reckoning --- whom they also lost to twice). At one stage, 2011, Kildare were ranked sixth in the country, despite the fact that the best team they had beaten were Meath!! Since McGeeney entered the fray Kildare have beaten: Monaghan, Meath (3), Derry (2), Laois (2), Down, Cavan (2), Clare, Wexford, Fermanagh, Sligo, Louth (2), Limerick (2), Wicklow (2), Antrim, Offaly (3), Leitrim In the same period Mayo have beaten: Dublin, Donegal, Cork (2), Galway (4), Tyrone, Roscommon (4), Down, Sligo (2), Leitrim, London (2), New York (2). These teams are in order of the 2014 ranking. This tells us that Kildare absolutely maxed out their potential, which is admirable, but please don't compare them to the football powerhouse of Mayo who could at least beat some good teams. If you read my post correctly you'll see I was comparing the Kildare version of '98 to the Mayo teams that have lost finals. Which is totally different to the point you are making in the above post.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 23, 2015 10:44:42 GMT
Kildare do not compare with Mayo!! That is a ridiculous comparison! Mayo are a top team that fall on the day. Kildare rarely lose to teams ranked beneath them (Wicklow and Louth) and even more rarely beat teams ranked above them (only Meath in all those years by my reckoning --- whom they also lost to twice). At one stage, 2011, Kildare were ranked sixth in the country, despite the fact that the best team they had beaten were Meath!! Since McGeeney entered the fray Kildare have beaten: Monaghan, Meath (3), Derry (2), Laois (2), Down, Cavan (2), Clare, Wexford, Fermanagh, Sligo, Louth (2), Limerick (2), Wicklow (2), Antrim, Offaly (3), Leitrim In the same period Mayo have beaten: Dublin, Donegal, Cork (2), Galway (4), Tyrone, Roscommon (4), Down, Sligo (2), Leitrim, London (2), New York (2). These teams are in order of the 2014 ranking. This tells us that Kildare absolutely maxed out their potential, which is admirable, but please don't compare them to the football powerhouse of Mayo who could at least beat some good teams. If you read my post correctly you'll see I was comparing the Kildare version of '98 to the Mayo teams that have lost finals. Which is totally different to the point you are making in the above post. You mentioned McGeeney and I reacted to that. My post here is the basis of my utter annoyance as a result of the ubiquity of praise of Kildare in the media... that has by osmosis seeped into the minds of some of the users on here.
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