fritz
Full Member
Posts: 233
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Post by fritz on Aug 31, 2014 19:00:46 GMT
Has a Kerry team ever tackled with the intensity or ferocity as yesterday? Both teams deserve massive credit for what was produced over the two and a bit games. I thought we were much the better team for long periods but a combination of untimely errors at both ends of the pitch by us and the unwillingness of Mayo to yield prompted the drama that ensued. Being 7 points down in the first-half was a farce; we had dominated the game but spurned too many chances. But we showed huge courage to drive on regardless and were certainly back in it by half time. Once ahead we could never seem to put Mayo away. I was actually more relaxed when Mayo led as it meant we had nothing to lose but it was very much a roller-coaster epic.
Starting Donaghy was a master stroke and he caused havoc. Delighted for him as he is one of the game's great characters. For anyone who saw his display in the All-Ireland U21 final in 2008 the performance of David Moran was the rich harvesting of immense potential. His injuries since then have been well documented so yesterday was the reward for years of hard work off Broadway.
But we had heroes everywhere! Did we have 23 in action over the course of the evening? Given the personnel injured that's serious depth. Jon Lyne may be an unlikely hero but he's now in the annals for those two majestic points. Pa Kilkenny - thrown into the cauldron - thrived. Griffin came on and was outstanding. Peter Crowley was brilliant throughout, the Moynihan comparison is praise of the highest order. Marc had a terrible day in Croker but bounced back like the class act he is. A shout out too for Maher, he was a man transformed. Paul Geaney had the nerve to kick a massive score at the most vital of times even on a bad day by his standards. As for James, his battles with the brilliant Keith Higgins was a joy, two greats slugging it out.
As for Fitz, he has proved himself to be a war general of the highest calibre. To reach the final this year has certainly surpassed my expectations. He has taken a squad shorn of a number of key men through retirement, lost his best player for the year, has had to deal with a number of other penal injuries, and has had to rely on a bunch who - quite frankly - had undistinguished underage pedigree. Am I being unfair in suggesting that if you were asked to enhance the 2006/07 double champs (hello Dublin!) only James would readily spring to mind? But here we are. Was it Brolly who suggested we would be gone for 10 years? Not happening Joe. We're very much around and will only get better.
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Post by southward on Aug 31, 2014 19:01:10 GMT
Saw somewhere that yesterday was the first time Kerry started a championship game without an O'Sé since 1995.
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kerryscoob
Senior Member
Where's the Hudson river
Posts: 462
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Post by kerryscoob on Aug 31, 2014 19:02:59 GMT
I haven't seen it mentioned but yesterday's blood substitutions - the players did not go back on immediately due to fear of concussion.. When is a blood substitution deemed a blood substitution, can someone explain the ruling. Yesterday 2 players went off but stayed off for an extended period and it having nothing to do with blood, they were suffering from other injuries..
Another 2 points on yesterday's game, I think the final Mayo kick out was won by Moran, he was pulled and dragged - no free given looses possession mayo win it back and immediately ref gives them what I thought was a soft free to win with last kick of game... Thankfully dropping shot.
BJK in my view cost us an AI against Dublin back in 2011 when he went for glory for a point and missed when we were in cruise mode, again yesterday when the game was in the melting pot he went for a very ambitious point and missed, KO'L admittedly also went for glory and missed this was when we were 2 points up.. Fitzmaurice spoke of us not closing out games better afterwards hopefully we will learn from these
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kerryscoob
Senior Member
Where's the Hudson river
Posts: 462
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Post by kerryscoob on Aug 31, 2014 19:03:35 GMT
I haven't seen it mentioned but yesterday's blood substitutions - the players did not go back on immediately due to fear of concussion.. When is a blood substitution deemed a blood substitution, can someone explain the ruling. Yesterday 2 players went off but stayed off for an extended period and it having nothing to do with blood, they were suffering from other injuries..
Another 2 points on yesterday's game, I think the final Mayo kick out was won by Moran, he was pulled and dragged - no free given looses possession mayo win it back and immediately ref gives them what I thought was a soft free to win with last kick of game... Thankfully dropping shot.
BJK in my view cost us an AI against Dublin back in 2011 when he went for glory for a point and missed when we were in cruise mode, again yesterday when the game was in the melting pot he went for a very ambitious point and missed, KO'L admittedly also went for glory and missed this was when we were 2 points up.. Fitzmaurice spoke of us not closing out games better afterwards hopefully we will learn from these
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kerryscoob
Senior Member
Where's the Hudson river
Posts: 462
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Post by kerryscoob on Aug 31, 2014 19:04:13 GMT
I haven't seen it mentioned but yesterday's blood - the players did not go back on immediately due to fear of concussion.. When is a blood substitution deemed a blood substitution, can someone explain the ruling. Yesterday 2 players went off but stayed off for an extended period and it having nothing to do with blood, they were suffering from other injuries..
Another 2 points on yesterday's game, I think the final Mayo kick out was won by Moran, he was pulled and dragged - no free given looses possession mayo win it back and immediately ref gives them what I thought was a soft free to win with last kick of game... Thankfully dropping shot.
BJK in my view cost us an AI against Dublin back in 2011 when he went for glory for a point and missed when we were in cruise mode, again yesterday when the game was in the melting pot he went for a very ambitious point and missed, KO'L admittedly also went for glory and missed this was when we were 2 points up.. Fitzmaurice spoke of us not closing out games better afterwards hopefully we will learn from these
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lorr29
Senior Member
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative
Posts: 647
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Post by lorr29 on Aug 31, 2014 19:35:32 GMT
. Superb thanks a million
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Post by stevieq on Aug 31, 2014 19:40:25 GMT
Are we still in transition? ??
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Aug 31, 2014 20:32:36 GMT
Murphy is a serious beast, brilliant footballer, big game temperament, huge man. Threw Roryo on the ground like a bag of kindling. This man is a serious operator, and I'm not sure how we can best handle him. McFadden despite some errant shooting was an important contributor and could arrive on final day with guns finally calibrated. If we can squeeze these two boys hard we will give ourselves a great platform. We're a different animal to our 2012 incarnation where key players were carrying injuries, got injured during the game,some of our greatest men coming to the end of their careers, despite the Tyrone win, our form was off. We have now proven this year we don't fold up and are now the team finishing strongest. To be honest the hyperbole around specific teams' fitness and conditioning being way ahead of others is to a significant degree being exposed as fools gold. It has imo been worth a few points to the winners of the last two AIs. I'm tending to use that term a bit too often now. All of the top teams are preparing frenetically and I mentioned and believe Cian's work with this squad is really ripening. The mental steel is forging, and we Kerry are becoming a talked on team. Donegal didn't get the examination from Dublin Mayo gave us. Dublin we thought even if a battle ensued would still have the biggest guns, but when your hosing teams without experiencing any pressure, you can't fallback on any mental reassurance then if a tough spot arrives, which it did today. I though the league semi with Cork was strong proof of Dublin's unbreakable armory, but this has since been exposed by Cork's subsequent poor disjointed form, and regarding intensity league will never match Championship. Whatever gears Dublin have, and they are considerable they didn't have one for Donegal's anaconda. Dublin's first four scores today were breathtaking and a riot looked on the cards but the score they shipped in the last 50 minutes 3-10 is startling. Donegal will take considerable beating but I think we're perfectly placed this time and Donegal will be favorites with not unreasonable justification, but that suits us perfectly. We have the unity, the management, the players, the bench,the conditioning, the stamina, the best tough road travelled with Mayo,and now unequivocally the proven refusal to bend to go and claim this All Ireland but it will take a mighty performance to wrest it. I believe we'll deliver it.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 31, 2014 21:34:20 GMT
I hope Mayo do some soul-searching over the winter and realise that they weren't robbed. They were just beaten narrowly after 160 minutes by a team that were ultimately, that bit better and fitter. There is no shame in it.
I expect that Mayo are sick of being patronised as plucky/likeable losers, and the most recent losses stung them a lot more than 2004 & 2006. But a lot of Mayo people seem to have reacted very badly to this defeat particularly.
They are still a team with some fine footballers. Lets be honest, the country is not weighed down with good football teams. If Mayo re-group under a new manager, and can freshen up their team with 1 or 2, then they will still be contenders over the next few years.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 22:19:33 GMT
Definitely agree with that . They still have a good team and always have good underage teams . Im sure they will find some young players in the League and be there again next year .
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Post by sandycove on Aug 31, 2014 22:54:14 GMT
Lads, anyone got an MP4 or AVI of the game? Stupid television recorder let me down
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Post by sullyschoice on Aug 31, 2014 23:06:01 GMT
I hope Mayo do some soul-searching over the winter and realise that they weren't robbed. They were just beaten narrowly after 160 minutes by a team that were ultimately, that bit better and fitter. There is no shame in it. I expect that Mayo are sick of being patronised as plucky/likeable losers, and the most recent losses stung them a lot more than 2004 & 2006. But a lot of Mayo people seem to have reacted very badly to this defeat particularly. They are still a team with some fine footballers. Lets be honest, the country is not weighed down with good football teams. If Mayo re-group under a new manager, and can freshen up their team with 1 or 2, then they will still be contenders over the next few years. I am sick of listening to them this year to be honest. They are just looking for someone else to blame except themselves. I would recommend staying away from facebook where their paranoia is all consuming. I find it very difficult to avoid being drwan into their psychosis.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 31, 2014 23:27:15 GMT
It's not unusual for fans to blame refs, opposition etc after a defeat. Especially a game as tight and gung-ho as yesterday's. McStay did point out tonight the ref made some awful decisions against both sides though.
I suppose it's easy for me to say that, being a neutral. But there's games and decisions that still wrangle with a lot of fans, even years later.
Both sets of fans should be proud of their teams because they served up two cracking games. It was unfortunate there had to be a loser. Personally, I was hoping for another replay such was the entertainment.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Sept 1, 2014 8:27:20 GMT
McStay lambasts the referees bias against Mayo and then throws his hat into the ring for the Mayo job. A cynic might say he used the platform of the Sunday Game to hammer the referee to appease the Mayo natives before his job application went in.
Never showed how David Moran was blatantly fouled from the kick out that let to the Mayo goalies last ditch effort for the winner in normal time. But then again I am sure he would have showed it if the kick had gone over and Mayo won by a point....
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 1, 2014 8:29:48 GMT
McStay lambasts the referees bias against Mayo and then throws his hat into the ring for the Mayo job. A cynic might say he used the platform of the Sunday Game to hammer the referee to appease the Mayo natives before his job application went in. Never showed how David Moran was blatantly fouled from the kick out that let to the Mayo goalies last ditch effort for the winner in normal time. But then again I am sure he would have showed it if the kick had gone over and Mayo won by a point.... Compare and contrast the tackles that resulted in late frees by 1. BJK on Kev McM in 2011 2. Boyle on BJK in 2014 I am not suggesting anything here by the way: it is just ironic that BJK was involved in both.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 1, 2014 8:32:17 GMT
Having watched the game over again on the player I can see how Mayo fans could be upset by some calls - if we had lost we would also be bothered by some of the calls that went against us. Three double hops by Mayo, an identical hand trip to the one Fionn was black carded for, the foul on David Moran just before Mayo got the last free chance to win n normal time .... Moral of the story is that in any close game there will be decisions that the losers can point to and feel hard done by as a result of. The pace of the game was incredible and calls will be tight. For me one of the more critical incidents in the game was the collision between Cillian O Connor and O Shea - a total accident with neither Kerry nor the ref involved. Time to put the SF behind us and focus on Donegal - another battle looming.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 1, 2014 8:41:17 GMT
Watched first game again last night (on mute, couldn't stomach T Carr). Crowley was immense in the last ten minutes. He made a great run for a vital point to cut the gap back to 4. He then horsed Seamus O Shea off the ball under the Hogan. He also picked up a vital break that led to either the goal or the equaliser, I can't recall. OK he gave away the peno but I didn't see any other Kerry defender make an attempt to stop Vaughan. It's clear to me he's a big game player as he showed also last year v Dublin. More of the same again Saturday Peter. Thanks for obliging Peter!!!
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 1, 2014 8:44:05 GMT
McStay lambasts the referees bias against Mayo and then throws his hat into the ring for the Mayo job. A cynic might say he used the platform of the Sunday Game to hammer the referee to appease the Mayo natives before his job application went in. Never showed how David Moran was blatantly fouled from the kick out that let to the Mayo goalies last ditch effort for the winner in normal time. But then again I am sure he would have showed it if the kick had gone over and Mayo won by a point.... Nor did they show the constant charging and overy carrying by Aidan O Shea or his charge into O Donoghue. I've always thought that Mayo were the worst losers I ever came across for a long time now and Saturday merely backed it up along with McStay's whinging last night. How RTE gave him the platform for such a biased assessment is no surprise. They are far from likeable.
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kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,131
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Post by kot on Sept 1, 2014 9:05:31 GMT
Well, the dust has finally settled on a heart stopping weekend. Firstly, I must say. We ain't doing too bad for a team in transition. Fright to god to think how we would be if Gooch was also fit.
On the game itself, I dont want wax lyrical too much but just to some in a few bullet points.
- We were particularly wasteful Saturday and should have been 6 points up before Mayo got a way back into the game. Also, these were not even difficult forced efforts - these were kickable efforts in space that we will not be afforded by Donegal. I know Mayo are getting stick for not closing out the game but I think both teams over both games could be accused of this crime. - Another basic error of defending by Enright in a big game Saturday. Similar to the Dublin game last year, his positioning was all wrong and when the ball did arrive, he made the wrong decision. People may feel I am being too harsh but we are already very VERY shaky at the back so really cannot afford to have such glaring errors. - The Ref was dire for both sides but Mayo do have every right to feel aggrieved particularly in Enright staying on. We got 4 easy frees that were not fouls (3 of which we had retained in possession and may / may not have scored anyway. The 2nd free in 1st half extra time was a free out however, BJK shoulder charged and then crumpled to the ground. Really bad call). However, Mayo got some very soft frees and Kerry were often man handled coming out of defence with no free given. The ball would get turned over and the slightest attempt at a tackle resulted in a free in. I counted about 4 instances of this, however Mayo only converted one of those frees. - Not on the 2nd pen though, I cannot believe there is even a debate on this. You cannot slide tackle in gaelic football. It was a dangerous tackle from behind on a fella about to shoot. If anything, Kerry could feel aggrieved that the player stayed on. - If Mayo had scored in the last minute then Kerry would have been fuming as David Moran was clearly fouled twice in the build up and the free against Marc was soft in the extreme. - The guts & determination from an inexperienced team to come back from 7 points down, retake the lead, lose it, retake it, draw it, fall behind and then power to win. I nearly had tears in my eyes watching it. Whatever happens in 3 weeks (although obviously will be devastated if Kerry dont end up winning), I think this summer has to be seen as a resounding success in terms of the stage of development the team is at and the faith that they have restored in Kerry football. Some of the scorelines we have racked up are unbelievable! - I think it has been said, but David Moran (despite the heroics of the 2 lads inside) was MOTM. He was absolutely unbelievable and didn't stop for the entire 90 mins and there was a stage between 50 - 60 mins when his partner and half backs/forwards were struggling that he took the fight to Mayo on his own. - Eamonn Fitz is proving himself every bit as good as JMcG in terms of being a tactical mastermind. He got most things right again and made the right personnel changes at the right time. The prospect of those players carrying knocks having 3 weeks to recover is also one that should bring hope. - Finally, hats off to both teams. Never in my life have I seen that level of pace, physicallity & skill maintained over the course of 1, nevermind 2 games.
Finally, is anybody else not a bit disappointed its not the Dubs - we are enjoying the underdogs / no expectations tag this year and we certainly would have been expected by most outside Kerry just to provide a sideshow to Dublin's inevitable victory (after all, I saw PP this week had 11/4 on a SIX IN A ROW!!?? NOT 5, 6!!) Now, we have Donegal who are pretty much in the same boat as ourselves. Completely written of all year and now find themselves in the final. After completely outplaying and humbling the Dubs in Croker.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 1, 2014 9:09:19 GMT
McStay started off by saying I don't like giving out about refs but he was appalling! He then highlights the incidents with Shane Enright saying he was deservedly booked early on - even though the cameras didn't pick up the incident which led to the yellow card. It just showed them being booked. I saw it happening in front of me and neither player deserved a yellow card, there was nothing in it.
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MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
Posts: 199
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Post by MeathExile on Sept 1, 2014 9:22:53 GMT
What a fantastic display of guts and determination. I have not seen 2 teams fight so hard for every ball since the Kerry Tyrone semi in 2003, except this time it was our lads who won the dog-fight. Every single one of the players deserve huge credit - the lads who came on were amazing and it shows what a strong sense of purpose there is in this talented group. I am loathe to pick anyone out, but for me Crowley was immense - defended doggedly against a physically much bigger opponent, and carried the fight to Mayo when we were down after the 2 goals in the first half. We have found a new pony!!
Donegal requires more of the same dogged scrapping for every ball. More on this anon when the post opens on this....
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 1, 2014 9:40:16 GMT
McStay started off by saying I don't like giving out about refs but he was appalling! He then highlights the incidents with Shane Enright saying he was deservedly booked early on - even though the cameras didn't pick up the incident which led to the yellow card. It just showed them being booked. I saw it happening in front of me and neither player deserved a yellow card, there was nothing in it. Totally agree - the two yellows to Enright and O Connor at the outset were a joke - highlights the mess that is the black card for me. Black card is supposed to be for cynical play and should not be mixed up with yellow or red in any way. Cynical foul - black and off to be replaced (for first 3). Refs tend to hand out yellows depending on their mood and frequently when they have not seen the event but have their attention called to something by umpires early in a game. Often regarded as a warning to all and sundry that this ref means business.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 1, 2014 9:43:32 GMT
Would like to call RTE on the use of commentators and "pundits" that do not know the rules. They call fouls that are not in the rule book creating general confusion among viewers. On playing back the game I heard the commentator state the ball must cross the 20 mt line for a kick out - not correct, ball must travel 13 meters for a kick out and the 20 mt line is irrelevant.
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seamo
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,016
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Post by seamo on Sept 1, 2014 10:08:39 GMT
I had to laugh when Des said they needed to talk about the referee because of comments from people on social media.......yet nothing is done about Tommy "Tom" Carr!!
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 1, 2014 10:10:57 GMT
Donegal's win will concentrate the minds fairly quickly after Saturday night's epic encounter and performance. It must have been hard for Tomas to sit beside McStay last night to be told to stay quiet. TSG is totally contrived.
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Post by clarinman on Sept 1, 2014 10:14:16 GMT
Would like to call RTE on the use of commentators and "pundits" that do not know the rules. They call fouls that are not in the rule book creating general confusion among viewers. On playing back the game I heard the commentator state the ball must cross the 20 mt line for a kick out - not correct, ball must travel 13 meters for a kick out and the 20 mt line is irrelevant. A player must be outside the 20m line when the ball is kicked out but may receive the kickout inside the 20m line once the ball has travelled 13m.
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Post by dirtyball on Sept 1, 2014 10:19:17 GMT
Don't post here much but had to say how impressed I was with yesterdays display. One of the best in over 20 years of following Kerry. It and we had everything. Skill, Tactics, Guts, mental Strength... One thing I don't agree with here is the constant questioning of some players like Barry John Keane and Kieran O'Leary. One post blaming Barry John for losing a final in 2011 is crazy at any stage - never mind after the win Saturday. Teams, subs, coaches, backroom teams win matches but one players cost us finals..rubbish. Barry John wasn't at fault for a goal that changed the game that day. But the real issue is supports questioning players taking on scores and missing. Fitmaurice obviously sends his players on with a lot of confidence and freedom to trust skill and be brave. Lyne took on a crazy attempt and nailed it..Barry John too on one very questionable attempt and one that he should have and missed both. Same with Kieran but we wouldn't have had a replay except for Kieran and Barry John won some amount of ball yesterday. Kerry live and die by our players not having fear and trusting their ability. Supports should stick with them through that. Most probably do but I hate seeing silly comments like "BJK cost us an all Ireland". Apologies for the rant - I'm still a little hyped from Saturday.
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Sept 1, 2014 13:13:45 GMT
Huge commiserations to Maigh Eó. They are as brave and honest a bunch you could wish to see.
I know it is probably hurting now but this is sport.
On the BJK debate, isn't it fantastic to see this guys application and ambition to go from a man pushed on to the scrap on here a few times to become one of the choices to come on and play a huge part.
I also wish James Horan all the best in his retirement. You owe the game absolutely nothing.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 1, 2014 13:35:57 GMT
Would like to call RTE on the use of commentators and "pundits" that do not know the rules. They call fouls that are not in the rule book creating general confusion among viewers. On playing back the game I heard the commentator state the ball must cross the 20 mt line for a kick out - not correct, ball must travel 13 meters for a kick out and the 20 mt line is irrelevant. A player must be outside the 20m line when the ball is kicked out but may receive the kickout inside the 20m line once the ball has travelled 13m. your hired
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Post by buck02 on Sept 1, 2014 13:38:53 GMT
BJK never hid after he came on and showed constantly for the ball and won every ball I remember that came his way. A small bit more composure in his shooting and he'll be a very serious option in 3 weeks when the game enters the last quarter. Leary didn't show as much as Barry John but got on the end of a few moves, its just that his radar was off on Saturday, unlike the week before when he nailed his one and only chance.
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