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Post by Mickmack on Aug 1, 2007 21:18:23 GMT
Really excellent article, I could hardly have put all my own thoughts & insights about these things in a more clear & concise way becoming a fan all of a sudden! Jacks articles are exceptional
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 1, 2007 22:07:26 GMT
In fairness to jack he's probably the best analyst out there. He doesnt just give a run down of the game but give a physcological insight to the game that is unrivalled. Can see why he was such a successful manager especially at underage level
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Aug 2, 2007 11:26:28 GMT
Tom Humphries does a good job of it allright.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2007 12:01:04 GMT
you would wonder how the lads who contested 9,10,14 and 21 all-ireland senior finals find this high astute level of insightfullness to football,hurling and youthfull anti social behavioural patterns,like their golden style of football there silence has been both golden and full of class dispite many dappling in print media.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Aug 2, 2007 12:29:01 GMT
Bit *y there Seamus...excellent articles and excellent book.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Aug 2, 2007 14:25:31 GMT
Just making the point that there is no doubt but that Tom Humphries actually writes the articles after a phonecall to Dromid. More learned students of the press such as ASABU are better qualified than me but the writing style is unmistakeable. Why would you alienate yourself from men who fought tooth and nail with/for you for 3 years? 3 players showing up at the launch is a pity but says a lot.
I actually really enjoy the articles as well Joxer but my overall impression is that there is a lack of 'class' (as Kerrygold has said above) about the whole thing. Why not just write excellent articles but keep the respect of all those around you. Do all the players have the same respect as they did last September?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2007 18:58:55 GMT
its unmissable reading anyway....... whoever is writing it.
Jack strikes me as being articulate enough to be writing it himself.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2007 21:10:38 GMT
anyone have any idea how much the article is worth to jack weekly,would it net him a few grand a week?
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Post by watchdehop on Aug 2, 2007 21:52:53 GMT
you would wonder how the lads who contested 9,10,14 and 21 all-ireland senior finals find this high astute level of insightfullness to football,hurling and youthfull anti social behavioural patterns,like their golden style of football there silence has been both golden and full of class dispite many dappling in print media. Are you saying the golden years team didn't write in the media? I can think of half a doesn't that have done so? Or are you making another point???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2007 7:19:23 GMT
anyone have any idea how much the article is worth to jack weekly,would it net him a few grand a week? I'd say if Jack got a few hundred that would be the extent of it. As someone already said, Tom Humphreys clearly helps out a lot with this.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 3, 2007 8:37:53 GMT
If the "golden years" brigade had such class why doesnt Ogie talk to Paidi? Because of stuff Paidi wrote about Kerry while Ogie was the manager.
From Tom Humphreys book on Kerry v Dublin you will have seen where a lot of the players dont talk to Pat Spillane over stuff in his book.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 3, 2007 9:25:58 GMT
the point i was making was that the none of the golden year family had responded to offensive comments directed at them from jack in his gost written book dispite many of them being involved in print media with various articles in many papers.
obviously they must have collectively choosen to ignore him,this is the class i was talking about,none other,they obviously felt after their contribution to kerry football over a dozen years that they didnt need to come down to jacks level.I admire them for that,like their football being golden their class off the field is also golden,a great way to respond to jacks slighting of them is to ignore it with silence and render it as insignificant.
As regards not getting on with each other,there was 7 or 8 of them with their wives in the park hotel in killarney after this years munster final,they all ate and drank together till about 9 oc after the game,there was nothing but friendship coming from their group,i was at the next table,they were the best of friends.
i've yet to see a work place or sporting team were there is a 100% friendship betwwen all members,that doent happen the real world.There will alaways be one or two who wont get on.I dont buy this propaganda that the golden years lads dont get on with each other.Most do,some arent friends.
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Post by smellUlater on Aug 3, 2007 9:46:48 GMT
Kerrygold just wondering if you were one the voices going "Boo" in Pairc Ui Chaoimh last year! The golden year team did enough "class" talking at that meal in killarney than having to write an article in a paper.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 3, 2007 10:03:02 GMT
Kerrygold just wondering if you were one the voices going "Boo" in Pairc Ui Chaoimh last year! The golden year team did enough "class" talking at that meal in killarney than having to write an article in a paper. i certainly was not one of the voices "booing",i totally refute that question,i have clearly stated else where on this forum that i did not boo in cork.I would never under no circumstaces boo a wearer of the green and gold because i have too much respect for them having followed them fanatically since 1975,i would find a suggestion like such directed at me to be deeply offensive. "i did not under any circumstance boo in cork in the replayed munster final of '06,such behaviour was completely out of order and disrepectful towards a kerry senior intercounty footballer".
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 8, 2007 11:13:35 GMT
Don't write Tyrone off yet
Jack O'Connor's Column: Both Kerry and Dublin will be quietly glad to see the back of Mickey Harte's Tyrone
Given their respective records against Mickey Harte's boys, both Kerry and Dublin will have been quietly glad to have seen the back of Tyrone on Saturday.
It's been a surprising summer. You would have got fair odds at the start of the year on there being two Ulster teams still in the championship at the start of August and neither of them being Tyrone or Armagh. On the surface at least, there is a changing of the guard in Ulster. Both Derry and Monaghan have improved and the once great teams that Armagh and Tyrone sent out have been dragged back into the pack.
I'm not sure that it's time to write either county off for good though. The rash of injuries suffered by both teams this year was of biblical proportions. Key players who made both Armagh and Tyrone tick have been in for repairs. In Armagh's case, Ronan Clarke's ball-winning ability at full forward has been central to the way they played the game. Without him Steven McDonnell just wasn't the same man. And they missed the inspirational presence of Francie Bellew at full back.
After they beat us in the 2005 All-Ireland final, I said that Tyrone had four forwards who would get into any team of the past decade. Brian McGuigan, Brian Dooher, Stephen O'Neill and Peter Canavan. You could more or less say that they were without all four on Sunday.
Forwards like that are irreplaceable. McGuigan made Tyrone the machine they were. An injury-free O'Neill is still a truly great player. Dooher in his prime did the work of two men. Canavan called it a day two years ago and when he went he didn't just leave with his bag of tricks. His protege, Owen Mulligan, hasn't been the same player since his old muinteoir scoile in Cookstown vanished.
Under those circumstances it says a lot about Tyrone's resolve and work ethic that they still pushed Meath all the way on Saturday. Tyrone lost but still they gave a fine account of themselves. They stayed in the game. They kicked 11 wides in the second half. Despite their depleted resources they were a team still managing to get the best out of themselves even when playing a fresh side with a lot of momentum.
(One other significant factor that is coming against Tyrone at the moment is that they are now being whistled for some of the tackles that have been their trademark. There is a discernible shift in emphasis by the referees and this has decommissioned another of Tyrone's great weapons. On Saturday several marginal decisions went against them.)
Meath will be thrilled with how they have regrouped and got better since the Dublin defeat. The qualifiers have never exactly been their cup of tea but there is a bit of romance about their adventure this year. Traditionalists will love them because they stand for a lot of what is good in Gaelic football. And in Darren Fay they have a full back who is a throw-back to the old days in the way he guards that square.
Fay is what we are talking about when we look at what Tyrone were missing. Certain players inspire not just their team-mates but also their supporters. Brian Lohan, with that red helmet and the defiant long clearances, always did it for Clare.
Bellew for Armagh. If Darragh Ó Sé wins a ball for Kerry his first instinct is to drive with it and maybe scatter a few players and get everything going. It's an aura that some players carry. Séamus Moynihan had it. Darren Fay has it. It's the statement he makes in the way he plays, the jut of his jaw the way he comes out with a ball. Attitude.
If you are at a game there are certain players when they get the ball and it's not what they do so much as the way that they do it. For Tyrone, Dooher has been so close to the heart of their followers because he stands for everything that is good about that Tyrone team. Honesty. Work ethic. Teamwork.
The loss of McGuigan this summer was a huge blow. He was definitely the best playmaker in the country - by a distance. Tyrone play a different type of football to any other team out there. There is a lot of intricate moving and passing. It is like a web they weave. This year the spider was missing. McGuigan locked all the parts into each other, he knitted the play together, picked up the pieces, went deep for a ball, made the killer pass.
And we keep talking about Canavan. They say that great writers always have one person in mind who is their ideal reader, the person they privately write to please. With Mulligan it's as if Canavan's influence extended well outside the classroom. The way Mulligan held the ball up for Canavan in 2005 for that goal? I don't think he'd do that for many other players.
Are Tyrone gone? The pessimist would say that they play a high-octane game that demands huge energy levels and huge work rate. While that may not account for the waves of injuries they get it certainly takes its toll physically and mentally.
And Harte has been with a lot of the group since they were minors. They won an All-Ireland as minors. They won a couple of under-21s. Some of those players would have won five national medals at different age groups with Harte. That's a lot of mileage and a lot of time in dressingrooms and training fields listening to the one man.
On Saturday when Harte was asked would he be staying on, he said that he would, even though some people mightn't want him to. Reading between the lines, it struck me that part of his achievement is that Tyrone people now expect success every year, just like football people in Kerry or hurling people in Kilkenny.
He'll stay and my feeling is that Mickey Harte isn't one of those managers who will have to reinvent himself. There are a couple of things that will ensure that Tyrone players stay on edge. One is that culture of success and the demand for more of it.
The other is the supply coming through. Tyrone worked off a panel of something like 38 players this year. There was competition to get into the first 30 let alone the first 15. They rotated players. They brought in a corner back the last day, Damien McCaul, who nobody outside of Tyrone had heard of. Raymond Mulgrew is still developing and this year in the forwards, they had options like Tommy McGuigan, Niall Gormley, Colm Cavanagh and Colm McCullagh. When players aren't just keeping an eye out on the team sheet but watching to see if their name even comes up when the panel is announced that keeps them out of the comfort zone and keeps them honest. That's the formula that works for Brian Cody in Kilkenny.
Tyrone are right to expect success, their supply line of talent is impressive and that impatience they have makes Tyrone a very demanding place to manage a team. They have a manager who is up to those demands. Now is the time to remember that.
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Pablo
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Post by Pablo on Aug 8, 2007 11:25:02 GMT
(One other significant factor that is coming against Tyrone at the moment is that they are now being whistled for some of the tackles that have been their trademark. There is a discernible shift in emphasis by the referees and this has decommissioned another of Tyrone's great weapons. On Saturday several marginal decisions went against them.)
About time too!!!!!!!
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Aug 8, 2007 11:30:56 GMT
Spotted that myself. In fairness, some calls were iffy!
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Aug 8, 2007 12:30:30 GMT
Absolutely, some calls were iffy...but nothing iffy about the ref bottling a sending off decision in the first half...the meath guy (O'Brien was it?) should have gone...I suspect if it was the other way around, the Tyrone guy would have walked. In fairness, Tyrone were magnanimous in defeat but I do think they were hard done by and writing them off is a fools game.
What a turnabout, heres me defending Tyrone!....kinda sorry to see them gone to be honest but suspect we'll grow to 'dislike' them again over the next few years....
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Post by tyroneperson on Aug 8, 2007 14:07:10 GMT
Fair play to Jack for a complimentary article.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 8, 2007 15:18:43 GMT
Jack........ I couldnt have said it better myself;
After they beat us in the 2005 All-Ireland final, I said that Tyrone had four forwards who would get into any team of the past decade. Brian McGuigan, Brian Dooher, Stephen O'Neill and Peter Canavan. You could more or less say that they were without all four on Sunday.
Forwards like that are irreplaceable.
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Post by scoobydo on Aug 15, 2007 11:18:27 GMT
Sorry to be a pain in the .... but could someone throw up this weeks offering from JOC. Thanks in advance...
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 15, 2007 15:46:57 GMT
Jack O’ Connor article compliments of Big Brother: enjoy the read!
Case of the old dog for the Jones's Road
Jack O'Connor's Column: Derry and Monaghan did not freeze in Croke Park; they lost for reasons of inexperience
We saw three matches in Croke Park over the weekend where the underdogs really put it up to the big boys. Only one of the Davids took down a Goliath - Limerick beat Waterford. In the other two games Derry and Monaghan scored moral victories but there's no roll of honour for moral victors.
Dublin and Kerry were vulnerable after long lay-offs. They'll have benefited hugely from coming through tough games. At this stage it is all about survival and becoming battle-hardened in Croke Park. Dublin and Kerry know that well.
Saturday was the wake-up call Dublin needed. They almost did the Devon Loch thing again. It's dangerous to start throwing on substitutes for the sake of it late in a game. It transmits a message to players on the field. The game is won! Coast to the finish, lads.
In basketball slang they call it garbage time. It's that period when subs get a run at the end of a game. Paddy Bradley nearly dumped Dublin during garbage time on Saturday.
A huge factor the Dubs have going for them though is Croke Park itself and that sea of blue. It takes ferocious mental strength for the opposition to ignore all that and concentrate on what they came to do.
There are so many factors to playing there even before you hit the pitch: the bus driving right in under the stands, the size of the dressingrooms, the number of Croke Park officials, the rumbling noise from above.
You can visit the place and check it out but Croke Park is a different world when it is full. It can inspire you or it can destroy you. You have to find the balance where you are stimulated without being overcome.
And when you cross the white lines the surface out there is big and the ground is firm. Croke Park is built for speed. The old trick of narrowing the sidelines when you have a fast team to play doesn't work there. It is a huge pitch and if you have pace and nerve in Croke Park you'll kill.
On a day when there is a little skid on the surface the forward needs to give just one shimmy and the back, all pumped up, is sitting on his backside.
It happened several times in the football games. The forward with a ball in his hand has all the aces. The firmness of the sod and the greasy top make it hard to turn.
You need nerve though. There is no hiding place. Some players thrive on it: Colm Cooper, Alan Brogan, Andrew O'Shaughnessy.
It even affects referees and you have to factor that in. They're human. They make bad decisions. Sometimes they'll make home-crowd decisions. Pumped players in Croke Park like to get in referees' faces. Teams get rattled for a minute or two.
The rule is simple: he isn't going to back down in front of 82,000 people because you surround him and put your face into his face. So when you run past him you might say, "Thought you were a bit hard on us there, ref," or shout at your own players to get on with it. It's about focus and conviction. Doing what you came to do.
Monaghan manager Séamus McEnaney alluded to it after the game on Sunday. You have to have been at that stage a couple of times before you learn how to win a game like that.
Séamus was right. In March of last year Kerry played Monaghan in Scotstown in a game Monaghan needed to get something out of to stay in the first division. The game had uncanny resemblances to last Sunday. We won two minutes into injury time with a point by Colm Cooper.
It was important because we'd been at the receiving end of a tight one against Tyrone in the 2005 All-Ireland. Even though Tyrone were the better team we'd looked back at the last few minutes and saw ways that we could have got something out of the final. We forced it a small bit near the end that day though.
Last Sunday there was a stage when it looked as if Kerry wouldn't get anything out of the game without scoring a late goal. But players took their points patiently. They have been in these big games before.
You have to learn to play away under pressure of time and space. Never panic. Never force it. Remember the old Meath mantra of never looking at the scoreboard or the clock. A lot of games can be won in the last two or three minutes.
On Saturday Derry forced it and went for those goals. Stephen Cluxton is very good in one-on-one situations. Tipping it over the bar would have been fine for Derry.
Experience strengthens conviction. Declan O'Sullivan made his goal for Kerry look so simple. He would have good memories of scoring in Croke Park and scoring into that goal. Some 24 hours previously, at the same end, Paddy Bradley took half a second too long over a chance he would score 99 times out of 100.
Derry didn't freeze. Neither did Monaghan. Having the composure to go the full distance and finish off your chances is the next step though. Both teams played some brilliant football but lost for reasons of inexperience.
The best way to beat Dublin in Croke Park is to keep the crowd out of the picture by getting a fast start and then prevent Dublin scoring goals. After that you need to concentrate for 70 minutes because Dublin do their damage in short, quick bursts.
Derry did the first two parts on Saturday but those bursts killed them. They led by five points to two after a quarter of an hour and then Dublin scored five points in the next seven minutes.
In the middle of the second half Dublin scored another four points in six minutes, with Paddy Bradley getting just one at the other end in between.
The decibel levels go up during those little blitzes and it takes more than football and physical fitness to survive them. It takes huge self-belief and conviction.
Derry will look back and see that they scored the last four points of the game and could have had a goal at the end. They will reflect that deep down though they came to Croke Park to give it a good rattle.
They will know this week that they should have set their sights higher and gone for the jugular.
That's the rubicon teams must cross in their own minds when they take on the Dubs in Croke Park.
Monaghan had a slightly different challenge the next day and again they didn't freeze. They were slow coming out for the game but when they hit the pitch they meant business. They tore into it with ferocious intensity and rattled Kerry for long periods.
A shower of rain early on helped Monaghan's backs. It was very hard for the Kerry full-forward line to win any clean ball. Monaghan were sharp to the breaks.
Kerry had another huge advantage in the quality of their forward subs. Kerry are better equipped than any other team in that department.
Croke Park is a big and tiring pitch. To be able to bring in top-quality forwards from the bench is a huge advantage. Those reinforcements will be needed against the Dubs the next day as the game will be played at breakneck speed.
At the weekend Kerry and Dublin used all the advantages they could muster to get through.
Dublin fed off the crowd for those blitz periods while Derry forced things when they had their chances.
On Sunday Kerry stuck to the game plan right till the end, never panicking or forcing it.
The history and romance of the past and the fact that those advantages will cancel each other out will make the semi-final in two weeks' time the game of the season.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 15, 2007 15:50:06 GMT
Thanks BB
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Post by scoobydo on Aug 15, 2007 16:08:00 GMT
Thanks bb
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2007 16:11:17 GMT
Fairly diplomatic stuff by Jack. He hasn't exactly nailed his colours to the mast
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Aug 22, 2007 8:12:23 GMT
Good man Jack. great article today. thinks it could go either way but tips Kerry to win by 2.
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Post by scoobydo on Aug 22, 2007 8:18:58 GMT
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Post by redbag on Aug 22, 2007 8:23:10 GMT
There is little to choose between the two giants of football but Kerry might edge it
Why does Sunday's Kerry-versus-Dublin game capture the imagination of the public the way no other fixture can? History really. Any time Dublin and Kerry play it's a throwback to the good old days of the 1970s when the rivalry between the teams raised the profile of Gaelic football to another level.
There's a symmetry in the fact that yesterday was the 30th anniversary of what is commonly regarded as the greatest game of all time. That audacious claim may owe as much to Micheál O'Hehir's commentary as to the action itself on the day when Dublin snatched victory with a couple of late goals.
I watched the game on television and remember clearly O'Hehir's "drilling for oil" phrase about Bernard Brogan. I recall that glimpse of Brogan cutting through the Kerry defence. He was a fantastic athlete, a quality he has passed on to his two sons.
In 1977 when Bernard Brogan scored the game and the power struggle between the sides were on a knife edge. This week on Radio Kerry, Weeshie Fogarty had Ger O'Keeffe, Mikey Sheehy and some of the other Kerry lads in to discuss that game.
Ger O'Keeffe scored a point that day from corner back - which, by the way, disproves those who say Ger could never kick a ball. Weeshie had got somebody to do stats on the game.
Times have changed. The stats showed there was a huge amount of kicking by the backs at that time. Backs got the ball and kicked it as long as they could.
Nowadays backs don't kick from inside their own 45; it is all about retaining possession.
Amazingly, Páidí Ó Sé played in midfield that day and was the Kerry player who handled the ball most. And just as surprisingly, Pat Spillane, who according to legend never passed a ball in his life, had five assists that day while being held scoreless himself.
The game itself is still fondly spoken about, even here in Kerry. For the Dubs to beat us in 1977 was a tough one to take, but while it was the high-water mark for that Dublin side, it was the making of Kerry football.
The result could have changed the course of Kerry football. It was the second year in a row Kerry lost in championship football to Dublin and there were some rumblings against Mick O'Dwyer that winter. Micko hung in there and Kerry won another seven All-Irelands with him. It's strange to imagine how different things might have been if the snipers had succeeded.
Kerry came back with a vengeance in 1978 and unleashed the Bomber, who turned out to be the final piece of the jigsaw in that great team. That was the first All-Ireland final I saw in the flesh. I'd held on till the right day.
There's some interesting symmetries about Sunday. As we say in Kerry, you can't bate breeding.
Páidí, of course, has three nephews playing. Bernard Brogan has two sons playing in the Dublin forward line but the fact their mother is from Listowel gives us certain bragging rights in the breeding stakes there.
In those days and ever since it was often said Kerry people don't travel to All-Ireland semi-finals. Kerry people will travel to this one. It has caught the imagination.
The county-board people have been on the radio lowering peoples' expectations as to whether they will all get tickets. That's a sign they know there is a barrage coming.
Kerry people know that, leaving history aside, it is a fascinating game. There is much that we cannot predict.
Will Dublin still be haunted by their failure to reach last year's final?
From Kerry's point of view the challenge is different. The players have been on the road for quite a while. A big game against Dublin should be exactly what is needed to get the pulse racing again. Or do they have the appetite left?
To beat the Dubs in the intimidating atmosphere of Croke Park would be the ultimate for a Kerry team with little left to prove. It would be a remarkable achievement for this group of players if they were to reach their fourth final in a row in this competitive era.
In many ways the pressure is all on Dublin to deliver in front of their blue army. There has to be a doubt as to whether they can close out games in the way they should.
Dublin's connection to The Hill is a double-edged sword. When Dublin score goals they feed off the excitement on The Hill. At other times The Hill's nervousness and anxiety transmit themselves to the players below.
The key for Kerry is to be in a tight game in the last 10 minutes so that those old doubts begin to resurface in Dublin minds. Have Dublin repaired the psychological scars left by last year's semi-final defeat?
Ancient history will count for nothing. The context is all modern. Kerry have been there over the last few years. They have huge experience and are in their eighth All-Ireland semi-final in a row, having played in the last three finals. That experience cannot be bought and is what won the quarter-final for them when they struggled.
They've been through these things before and even from the quarter-final they will have drawn huge resilience. Two points down with 62 minutes gone on the clock and they finished up winning by a point. Winning games like that is huge; it means you never panic; you keep doing the right thing.
Much of the analysis revolves around personnel rather than personalities. The last day the three Ó Sé brothers virtually pulled the game out of the fire on their own.
Kerry have others capable of doing that too. The big question about Dublin is do they have enough of that type of player. They certainly have fine individual footballers and Ciarán Whelan or Bryan Cullen on their day can be great players.
Whelan is having a good year and is vital in that Dublin play when he plays. He caught two kickouts in a row in the Derry game and two points came off them. Goals and Whelan's catches are the two main things Dublin feed off.
Cullen has threatened to provide the same sort of uplift for a couple of years. He has fine qualities and has looked as if he could be that leader. Dublin need massive performances from those two. Their forwards, with the exception of Jayo, wouldn't be experienced enough to provide leaders at this stage.
Darragh Ó Sé will feel he was slightly below par over the 70 minutes in the Monaghan game and will be edging to have a big performance. When Darragh plays, Kerry play. This Sunday is the kind of challenge Darragh loves.
Whelan needs a sweep into the ball to launch himself for catches. Midfield will probably be crowded on Sunday as both sides attempt to stop Whelan and Darragh Ó Sé catching clean ball.
Kerry need to stop Whelan and deny him the runway for those big catches. When Whelan is catching ball he makes Dublin play. That's his trademark: the big run, a skyscraping catch and a point from the right-hand side. It lifts Dublin hugely.
A lot comes down to a few things. The six-week break was a factor in Kerry's performance against Monaghan. Kerry had a tough battle and got out the other side of it with a one-point win.
Dublin are more consistent this year but if Kerry stay with them with 10 minutes to go they should have the experience to close out the game.
Dublin will start out at 100 miles an hour. Kerry have to absorb that start.
Kerry players usually raise their game when a big test is put in front of them. The house three-quarters full of Dubs will be a challenge rather than an obstacle.
Positives for Dublin are that Kerry looked a little dead on their feet against Monaghan. Will they be right for Sunday? If Kerry are a little off colour Dublin could steamroll them with backs driving out of defence on overlaps. There are those two things that get the Dubs going too: Whelan and goals. If the voltage gets high enough they could cut loose.
Predicting an outcome before the teams have even been picked may be a mug's game. But Kerry by two.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 22, 2007 8:38:40 GMT
my pulse increased reading that.
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Post by scoobydo on Aug 22, 2007 8:47:48 GMT
Thanks. By the way, I'm only small fish round here but this is my 200th post. not really a good one to hit the landmark with but hey, neither were the previous 199
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