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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2007 7:34:17 GMT
Thats the killer......... Limerick have been fighting amount themselves and not performing for that last 6 years while waterford have produced the goods every summer.
Now Limerick get to a final and waterford dont
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Aug 14, 2007 8:58:08 GMT
...and that , my friends, is sport! The word 'deserve' is so overused....whatever else happens in sport, over time, baring career ending injuries etc, you tend to get what you deserve. Hopefully, Waterford can bounce back again but they can point back to the drawn game with Cork this year and say why didn't we win that? It seems like it was the key and while they had the winning of that game, they didn't do it and in the end had a refereeing decision to thank for a second bite of the cherry. It cost them in the end and harsh as it may seem, great teams win when its put up to them and Waterford haven't reached that level.Unfortune for the great individuals on the team but hey, thats sport....blood sport.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 14, 2007 9:11:20 GMT
Waterford played 3 top end championship games in 14 days,kerry played 2 top end championship games in 18 weeks,two words about the championships layout and structure,"farsical joke".
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 14, 2007 16:54:59 GMT
Send a letter to Nicky Brennan saying exactly that.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2007 18:26:34 GMT
...and that , my friends, is sport! The word 'deserve' is so overused....whatever else happens in sport, over time, baring career ending injuries etc, you tend to get what you deserve. Hopefully, Waterford can bounce back again but they can point back to the drawn game with Cork this year and say why didn't we win that? It seems like it was the key and while they had the winning of that game, they didn't do it and in the end had a refereeing decision to thank for a second bite of the cherry. It cost them in the end and harsh as it may seem, great teams win when its put up to them and Waterford haven't reached that level.Unfortune for the great individuals on the team but hey, thats sport....blood sport. Only for the back door waterford would have got to two finals this decade......... 2004 v Wexford and 2007 v Kilkenny......
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 14, 2007 21:14:44 GMT
From d'examiner today
The GAA must act now, immediately, to ensure that the utter farce we’ve seen this year in deciding the two teams in the All-Ireland final must never be repeated. On one side of the draw, after five huge games — one of those, admittedly, a replay — Waterford have been dumped out of the championship at the semi-final stage, their first loss. On the other side, Kilkenny have had one big game, against Galway in the All-Ireland quarter-final, one serious test. How fair is that, how equitable?
I want to stress here, and I cannot over-emphasise it, this is not Kilkenny’s fault.
It is the fault of the system put in place by the GAA, a system which is currently lop-sided in favour of Kilkenny, a system which next year will be even more lop-sided in favour of the Leinster champions, entry straight to the All-Ireland semi-finals. Even now, a year in advance, we all know who those probable Leinster champions are.
The Munster champions, too, will go straight to those semi-finals, but only after getting over at least two major hurdles within the province, possibly three, with the additional possibility of tied games thrown in. That system has to go, must go.
I know it’s maybe heresy to suggest it, but if the current provincial championship format is to be kept, and if Galway continue to balk at playing in Leinster, then why not Waterford in Leinster? Prestige, honour, tradition, I hear the arguments already, but I wonder how much prestige and honour the Waterford players attach to their hard-earned 2007 Munster medals this morning?
The provincial championships are now just stepping stones to the All-Ireland championships proper, to the last eight knockout stages. Eight Leinster medals Michael Kavanagh has — how highly do you think he values those medals? More pertinently, how highly do you THINK he should value them, how much are they actually worth?
With Waterford in Leinster, a new instant derby rivalry would be created with Kilkenny, and, overall, the balance would be a bit more even; four decent sides in Leinster in Kilkenny, Waterford, Offaly and Wexford, with the potential of Dublin to come.
Qualifiers? Straight knockout, controlled draw each round, to determine the four who would meet the four provincial finalists in the quarter-finals, after which there would be another controlled draw to decide the semis.
Galway? If they continued to insist on standing alone outside of Munster or Leinster, I’d give them no second chance; in they go to the mix in the qualifiers and take what comes.
Munster? This would still leave four strong teams, two hard and competitive semi-finals. Think outside the box, lads, think outside the province, because in this instance at least, provincial thinking is dated.
Another suggestion: while there is no doubt that Limerick were of such a mind yesterday that they would have stood up to any team in the country, including Kilkenny, it was unfair on Waterford that they had to play such a major game just one week after getting over Cork in the quarter-final, at the second attempt. Three huge games in two weeks, why couldn’t the semi-final have been put back a week, to give Waterford some sort of breathing space before tackling the next level?
There are still three weeks to the All-Ireland final, could this semi-final not have been put back to next weekend? A bigger question — why do we need replays at all?
Alright, they’re a great spectacle, and they do give teams a second chance, but it’s only postponing the inevitable for one anyway. Why cause such havoc with the scheduling of club games within the relevant counties, for the sake of the few extra bob? Is the GAA not making enough already? Just a thought.
Regardless, Waterford are gone, no All-Ireland final appearance for them, and hurling is the poorer. Not because Limerick are there in Waterford’s stead — mark my words, Limerick will do both themselves and Waterford proud on September 2.
No, it’s because Sunday’s situation should never have arisen. Waterford should have faced Wexford in their semi-final, Limerick should have faced Kilkenny, provincial finals crossover; imagine, then, what a final Sunday’s game would have made!
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 1, 2007 14:57:27 GMT
Shamefully, not a word has been spoken about the All Ireland hurling final.....and it's on tomorrow.
I for one can't wait to see how Limerick react to being in the final - the first ten minutes is vital for them tomorrow. Kilkenny are expecting the same whirlwind start as they had against Waterford and have trained to deal with this. Kilkenny are a very fast team also, but far more methodical in their approach - whereas the Limerick approach in the semi final was one of whirlwind and brimstone!!
Key tomorrow are Messers Lucey and Geary. They have to hold the centre and stop Shefflin and Gorta taking too much direct ball from Tommy Walsh and JJ Delaney, otherwise they will be punished by the half chance a pass to Eddie Brennan or Willie O'Dwyer creates. Eddie, and especially Willie are the two most consistant poachers on the team.....and if they get the half chances which poor defending down the spine (Gorta and Shefflin) will create, then show over for Limerick.
I suspect it will be a tighter game than people are expecting but Kilkenny should pull clear in the last ten minutes.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2007 16:06:48 GMT
Limerick do a Kieran Donaghy.......... lamp it in high to Brian Begley............
Will the game be gone from Limerick before they realise it.
Its just another final for Kilkenny. Hard to expect Limerick to win it at the first attempt.
Hope I am wrong
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2007 8:28:40 GMT
By Fintan Ryan *
Oh Lord of all that’s great and good we come with our heads bowed, To offer you some homage and a prayer, if that’s allowed. We thank you for our blessings Lord, our good land and our crops And we might even get them saved if you held back on a few drops. We thank you for our sporting greats of them we’re very proud. We recall their deeds in awe each time we’re in a crowd. Of Mackey, Carey, Hartigan; Oh, the memories they won’t dull Sometimes, too, we mention Paul O’Connell and “The Bull”.
We pray a special pardon for any times we may have sinned, For cursing, swearing, missing Mass and even passing wind. We also beg forgiveness for times we’ve roared at referees. Can you do anything about their sight, Lord, as we are on, I beg you please? We are sorry too for the many times we seemed to leave the path, For the times we followed Charlton and ‘ooh-aahed’ Paul McGrath. For the times we went to Thomond Park and looked at oval ball Sang the “Isle” and “Athenry” and answered “Ireland’s Call”.
For these and all our other sins we are too embarrassed to recall As a penance we offer up to you, our past failures, one and all. From seventy-four to zero six each and every year we’ve tried. We could sometimes almost touch the Grail but always were denied. Four times we’ve made the final spot and every time we’d lose. Lord, let me put it to you this way: I think we’ve paid our dues.
So, now we have another chance, a September date is beckoning And this time we are praying that we will have the reckoning. Kilkenny’s Cats again stand between us and final glory. It’s not as if they need it Lord, Jesus. Look, you know yourself the story. We give them all the sunshine and we think that’s fair exchange But if you buy a drink in Langton’s Pub you’d get a medal back in change. They’ve been up here many times. I think they’ve won their share. We're asking just for number eight. That’s hardly being unfair.
We pray that Murray’s eyes are keen, his puck outs long and straight. Our full back line is tight and hard, to date they’ve been just great. Our halfbacks we pray can keep their form and are ready for the rumble. And, if Shefflin has an off day, Lord, you won’t hear us grumble. We pray O’Grady and O’Brien again will play their part As they cover every blade of grass. We pray for strength of heart. For our forwards Lord, especially, we pray a fruitful day, That their shooting may be accurate with very few astray. That as chances fall they play their part and avoid all serious knocks And of course we pray a special prayer, on bended knee, for Shaughs.
We think back just twelve short months and how we felt then leaving Ennis. Yes - you’ve guessed it Lord - we pray for Richie Bennis. May he make the right decisions and leave Cody in a state. To see Richie lead the crowd on the pitch, now that would be just great. And a quick prayer for our sponsor Lord, he always backs to win. We hope that he’ll be naming horses after winners soon again. For we pray that, in September, with your blessings raining down, We make the journey up to “Croker” and bring McCarthy back to town.
* Fintan played senior football with Limerick from 1979 to 1992 and starred in the famous Munster final of 1991 against Kerry. He scored a point in that game, when Kerry squeaked home by a margin of 0 – 23 to 3 -12.
Fintan won two McGrath Cup medals with the county and his other GAA honours include a Munster Junior hurling medal from 1986. Fintan played hurling and football for many years with his native Askeaton, in county Limerick. For the past four years, he has been living in the Kerry hurling stronghold of Kilmoyley and he is Manager of Tralee Credit Union. He is a senior selector with Kilmoyley and coached their Under 21s last year to a sweet county final win over near neighbours Ardfert.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 2, 2007 16:42:17 GMT
Kilkenny were sublime.....to survive injuries to both your best player and your All Star winning full back and still win by six points says how much Kilkenny wanted to win this today.
Eddie Brennan, Eoin Larkin and Tommy Walsh were immense, as was Jackie Tyrell.
Ollie Moran must be gutted - himself and Mark Foley kept Limerick going all day and have been through so much with Limerick to fall short on the biggest stage.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2007 18:28:00 GMT
I didnt think Kilkenny were sublime to be honest....................... just good enough to beat the third best if not the fourth best team in Munster.
Limerick were just about good enough to reach the Munster final where there were beaten by 10 points..........
They then beat Clare and ambushed a Waterford team that lit up the summer and were knackered.
For the last 6 years Limerick didnt win a match in the championship.
For them to be in the final was appalling. I cant remember a worse final. Even Kilkenny seemed half interested in it during the second half.
The ref did his best for Limerick but they werent good enough to win even with the ref and Noel Hickey and Shefflin injured.
This freak of a final cant be allowed to happen ever again.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2007 18:29:10 GMT
very touching at the end with James McGarry and his little boy. The GAA family know how to look after its own
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 3, 2007 19:51:05 GMT
I'm afraid all our fears came true. No disrespect to Kilkenny, they did what they had to do. Not surprisingly, after the ravenous hunger of last year's win, and a summer of wins that were as soft as Mooncoin cheese, they struggled to hit the sublime highs that they can. Limerick had everything going for them here today, including an utterly disgraceful ref (havent seen the usual barrage of posts about bad refs, must only happen when DUblin play? : I wanted Limerick to prove me wrong, but we knew all year, they are still well off the very top. I thought they might step up, as a young team coming in with little to lose against a team who could be forgiven for being complacent, and a team who had no hard games all summer. Waterford, as we knew, were mugged by Limerick, out on their feet from a cruel series of games, a shambles of a system. Hurling, and all us fans, was robbed of what would have been a great final. I still believe Waterford will be back, through the back door, next year. Unless the GAC manage to screw it all up in some other stupid way
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2007 20:36:18 GMT
have to say i agree with you mickmack.
do you think waterford would have beaten kilkenny?,personally i think the cats would have beaten them also.
that an interesting little spat developing between loughnane and cody.................
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Post by Owenabue on Sept 3, 2007 20:40:17 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2007 21:20:32 GMT
have to say i agree with you mickmack. do you think waterford would have beaten kilkenny?,personally i think the cats would have beaten them also. that an interesting little spat developing between loughnane and cody................. Limerick were woeful........ I have no idea how good Kilkenny in 2007 are. They met nothing
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Post by betfairking on Sept 3, 2007 21:29:47 GMT
In todays Irish Independent Willie O'Dwyer (Kilkenny), Mike O'Brien & Brian Begley(both Limerick) were given a rating of 4/10. This is outrageous. Just for pulling on the jersey one would deserve a 5. In all my years following ratings(in respectable Newspapers) I don't think I have ever come across a 4/10. The ratings were given by Colm Keys.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2007 21:45:03 GMT
Willie o Dwyer was taken off after 15 minutes. I cant recall Mike o brien or Brian Begley getting a puck. Can you?
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Post by betfairking on Sept 3, 2007 22:09:11 GMT
I was at the match and I know they didn't play well but I'm just saying that nobody deserves a 4/10 unless they get sent off for striking or something similar. There was a lot of other players who underperfromed to the same degree and they got a 5/10.
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Sept 5, 2007 12:33:50 GMT
Very disappointing game from Limericks perspective. Never got going and to be fair, never looked like doing themselves any kind of justice. It would be nice to think they'll be back next year but its unlikely. They don't have the type of back-up coming through that the 4 other competitive munster counties have. They'll make the qtr-finals and after that who knows but its going to be very hard to get back to the final again next year. They should be better for this experience and hoping theres no row next spring, they must try to build on it.
Having been in Dublin on a lot of weekends in recent weeks, one thing very evident in suburbia on a Saturday morning is the number of kids involved in hurling training....really impressive. They're in the U21 final on Sunday against Galway....good to see and hopefully they win....Hurling has had a great season and Dublin winning the U21 would end it on a high.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 5, 2007 12:56:57 GMT
kilkenny have 450 kids training yearly in their underage acadamy,this current team didnt just fall out of the sky.
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Post by islandexile on Sept 7, 2007 15:34:29 GMT
Anybody know why Mark Keane (a real sharpshooter a couple of years ago) wasn't on the Limerick panel? Did he just fall out of favour or did he opt out himself?
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on Sept 10, 2007 22:49:51 GMT
I didnt think Kilkenny were sublime to be honest....................... just good enough to beat the third best if not the fourth best team in Munster. Limerick were just about good enough to reach the Munster final where there were beaten by 10 points.......... They then beat Clare and ambushed a Waterford team that lit up the summer and were knackered. For the last 6 years Limerick didnt win a match in the championship. For them to be in the final was appalling. I cant remember a worse final. Even Kilkenny seemed half interested in it during the second half. The ref did his best for Limerick but they werent good enough to win even with the ref and Noel Hickey and Shefflin injured. This freak of a final cant be allowed to happen ever again. What an asinine comment. "The fourth best team in Munster" is completely subjective and possibly arguable, but "I can't remember a worse final" is just f**king embarrassing. Are you six years old, or senile? In an instant one can name two finals (1989 and 2000) that leave it in the shade for one-sidedness. 2002 was no better; in fact Kilkenny scored their first goal in the first minute, and Clare didn't even have the novelty of a goal.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 11, 2007 20:16:48 GMT
1989 was novel.......... Tipp winning it for the first time since 1971........ and Antrim were a joy to behold even if outclassed.
2000 was similar to 2007 but that Offaly team were worthy of being in a final......... one of the greatest teams of any era
I still think Limerick are the 4th best team in Munster
This years final should have been between waterford and Kilkenny. Why wasnt the Waterford v Limerick semi final played on the same day that Meath played Cork in football.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 11, 2007 20:19:20 GMT
waterford shouldnt have agreed to 3 games in 14 days,they were as flat as kiera knightly
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2007 12:30:12 GMT
waterford shouldnt have agreed to 3 games in 14 days,they were as flat as kiera knightly huh
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2007 12:46:09 GMT
I didnt think Kilkenny were sublime to be honest....................... just good enough to beat the third best if not the fourth best team in Munster. Limerick were just about good enough to reach the Munster final where there were beaten by 10 points.......... They then beat Clare and ambushed a Waterford team that lit up the summer and were knackered. For the last 6 years Limerick didnt win a match in the championship. For them to be in the final was appalling. I cant remember a worse final. Even Kilkenny seemed half interested in it during the second half. The ref did his best for Limerick but they werent good enough to win even with the ref and Noel Hickey and Shefflin injured. This freak of a final cant be allowed to happen ever again. What an asinine comment. "The fourth best team in Munster" is completely subjective and possibly arguable, but "I can't remember a worse final" is just f**king embarrassing. Are you six years old, or senile? In an instant one can name two finals (1989 and 2000) that leave it in the shade for one-sidedness. 2002 was no better; in fact Kilkenny scored their first goal in the first minute, and Clare didn't even have the novelty of a goal. Can you name a team to play in an All Ireland final senior final .......... and who didnt win a championship game in the previous 6 years .............apart from Limerick in 2007
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 12, 2007 18:44:26 GMT
Clare, 1995?
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Sept 12, 2007 19:52:22 GMT
Clare were in '94 Munster Final so I guess they beat someone on the way to that point ASA. Limerick were in this years final on merit. If Waterford are so great, how come it took them two games to dispose of Cork and remember, Waterford only got a draw in the first of those two games due to a refereeing'assist' with a close in free for no apparent reason at the end of the game?
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 12, 2007 21:22:10 GMT
True, forgot about that - will blame it on the jet lag :-)
This is bugging me.....Mick, is there an actual answr to this?
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