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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 29, 2011 0:44:07 GMT
It wasn't a great footballing spectacle to be honest.
I know Kerry have 36 or whatever All Irelands already, but I hope they add another in 2011. The behaviour of the Dublin fans today was a disgrace. Constant booing of Donegal players taking frees, kickouts and in general play was disgraceful. Worst of all, was the booing of Donegal players when they were on the field injured. Absolute disgrace. They've taken their disgusting behaviour up a notch or two since they played us last year in the qualifiers.
I'm always hearing about Dublin needing an All Ireland, the GAA needs Dublin etc etc. Well, if thats the sort of thing we'll be witnessing again from Dublin fans on All Ireland final day, the greatest occasion in Irish sport, I hope Kerry annihilate them.
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mozzy
Senior Member
Nunc Coepi
Posts: 746
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Post by mozzy on Aug 29, 2011 2:12:32 GMT
Connolly didn't deserve to go over the hand bag stuff - he at least should have his card rescinded - the Donegal player deserves an oscar for how he hit the ground - rediculous stuff -
I for one am glad to see Dublin back in it - having grown up with the great Kerry Vs Dublin games - and I have missed the clashes
Time for Kerry to expect nothing but the best from Dublin - they have shown some resolve and they won't be bad again - in fact the last 10 mins of the game, they started to show signs of their old self -
overall bad advertisement for our great game and roll on September 18th....
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Aug 29, 2011 9:47:55 GMT
The condemnation of Jim McGuinness and Donegal. It certainly was awful to watch...the biggest condemnation of McGuinness in my view was that at 3 pts up 5 minutes or so into the second half, he hadn't a plan for pushing it home at that point. Dublin regained the initiative to a degree and the paucity of planning on McGunniess' part became more obvious...'chasing a game? why would we have to do that?'....Donegal had the winning of this and McGuinness must shoulder the blame for the failure imho. Talking about the first year of a bigger plan is all very fine...few enough make it back to Semi-Finals and you gotta take your chance when its presented.
As for Dublin, they struggled obviously for long periods but there was a point in the second half..maybe with 15 mins to go when I thought, this is it, this is the moment when Dublin will show themselves to be still mentally weak and they'll lose or they can push on to the final. That they pushed on, is testament to Gilroy and his management approach as it is to the players, BB in particular.
It will, I believe, be a great final. There are lots of ways of looking at it but Dublin now have a massive monkey of their back...they are free to play on the big stage for the first time in 16 yrs....this could go down to the wire....
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Post by veteran on Aug 29, 2011 10:38:43 GMT
Donegal are being castigated all over the media for their style of play. As unattractive as it is, they are entitled to adopt that strategy. Indeed, in one way it is fascinating to watch how the opposing team goes about the business of trying to penetrate that system. However, that defensive approach is not the main pollutant of our game. The cancer in our game, as I repeatedly say, is the non stop hand passing. It has got to such a stage now that most of the Donegal players could have played in their bedroom slippers rather than football boots such little use, none in a lot of cases, they made of them yesterday.
Surely this handball rather than football approach must be obvious to the game's legislators. If so, why are they pretending it does not exists? I listened to Martin McHugh on the radio today. He suggested a way of combating this ultra defensive game was by decreeing you could only have a limited number of men behind the ball at any one time. Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous? Can't you imagine referees trying to police that?
The answer to yesterday's nightmare is to tackle that unwelcome elephant in the room, the hand pass. Allow two handpasses and then you have to kick the ball. Can't you imagine how that would transform our game. God between us and all harm, players would have to learn how to kick a ball. It would pose problems, as it should, for teams like Donegal who want to play handball all the way to the opposing goals. Every third possession would now have to be dispatched, horror of horrors, via the boot, a risky business around your own back line for people who feel that the FOOT has no business in FOOTball.
The above solution was tried some years ago with success in the NFL. Apparently, some managers revolted, no doubt a game of pass the parcel is easier to coach.
Does anybody see a downside to my suggestion?
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Post by nicoshea on Aug 29, 2011 10:41:58 GMT
Only downside as such that I see is that you may not be aware that there was already 2 handpasses when you get the ball and when you get the ball you handpass also... But other than that I see nothing really
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 29, 2011 10:44:00 GMT
Awful awful game to watch .
While Donegal must bear some of the "responsibility" for this spectacle, it should be noted that Dublin's strategy of sticking with a two-man full forward line and defending in depth bears a fair amount of the responsibility as well.
Gilroy and co were exposed as tactically naive by sticking to the same gameplan they had used all along - they played right into Donegal's hands. The fact that Dublin clearly didnt even have a notion of a Plan B shows just how tactically poor the Dubs are on the sideline.
Almost a pity Donegal didn't get to the final as it would have been great fun to see Kerry's ability to take points from distance demolish their system.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2011 10:45:49 GMT
Donegal are being castigated all over the media for their style of play. As unattractive as it is, they are entitled to adopt that strategy. Indeed, in one way it is fascinating to watch how the opposing team goes about the business of trying to penetrate that system. However, that defensive approach is not the main pollutant of our game. The cancer in our game, as I repeatedly say, is the non stop hand passing. It has got to such a stage now that most of the Donegal players could have played in their bedroom slippers rather than football boots such little use, none in a lot of cases, they made of them yesterday. Surely this handball rather than football approach must be obvious to the game's legislators. If so, why are they pretending it does not exists? I listened to Martin McHugh on the radio today. He suggested a way of combating this ultra defensive game was by decreeing you could only have a limited number of men behind the ball at any one time. Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous? Can't you imagine referees trying to police that? The answer to yesterday's nightmare is to tackle that unwelcome elephant in the room, the hand pass. Allow two handpasses and then you have to kick the ball. Can't you imagine how that would transform our game. God between us and all harm, players would have to learn how to kick a ball. It would pose problems, as it should, for teams like Donegal who want to play handball all the way to the opposing goals. Every third possession would now have to be dispatched, horror of horrors, via the boot, a risky business around your own back line for people who feel that the FOOT has no business in FOOTball. The above solution was tried some years ago with success in the NFL. Apparently, some managers revolted, no doubt a game of pass the parcel is easier to coach. Does anybody see a downside to my suggestion? Incompetence of the little men in black with the whistle. On an aside, kerry will get nothing from McQuillan in the All- Ireland Final. The players will need to be totally disciplined in the Final.
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 29, 2011 10:48:22 GMT
Does anybody see a downside to my suggestion? Trying to cast the mind back to when this was tried in the league from what I remember players got used to the limited handpasses fairly quickly. From what I remember it exposed some individual inter-county players as rather limited "footballers".
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 29, 2011 11:35:35 GMT
Just found this analysis of yesterday's game:
"THERE IS A PHRASE in Latin that perhaps best sums up the Donegal approach to football – reductio ad absurdum (reduction to the absurd).
All we need now is for another team to follow their example and we will, in time, have the first scoreless Gaelic football match in history.
Pat Gilroy was magnanimous in victory and had Donegal won I would not be saying any of this. Dublin scraping over the line, however, allows me some grace.
Pragmatists will argue that the way Donegal play – or don’t play to be more accurate – is effective. Fair enough. It is to a degree. If they are ultimately successful and they win the football All-Ireland by rarely actually kicking the ball, time wasting and diving to have players sent off, then hats off to them.
That day would also be the day that the GAA might as well scrap Gaelic football entirely and come up with another game because the logic of all teams playing in that way would be that the game as it has been known will have been made redundant. All that would be missing would be to replace the short hand pass with an actual throw and to institute one-on-one scrums for ‘tackling.’
It’s called rugby league.
Wigan look out."
;D
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Post by seaniebo on Aug 29, 2011 11:54:12 GMT
Jim McGuinness is surely doing a whole lot of soul searching this morning. There was one team and one team only capable of playing defensive and producing good football and that was Tyrone. Donegal made a mockery of the game yesterday. I don't care how limited a team is but surely be to God they're not that limited. Thank God the Dubs won. It was the only silver lining in a putrid game. In saying that, the Donegal v Kildare game was equally atrocious given the same tactics deployed by the north siders that day. I'd hate to be a Donegal footballer having to adopt to this regime.
I had a similar discussion last night re the handpass as veteran has alluded to. Something has to give. The powers that be must do something and fast.
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Post by delorean on Aug 29, 2011 12:21:15 GMT
Does anybody see a downside to my suggestion? Hard to believe I'm agreeing with kerrygold but the officiating would definitely be the most obvious stumbling block. To be fair, they have enough to look out for as it is, defenders pulling and dragging the forwards off the ball (and vice versa), the whole one solo one hop thing along with the amount of steps taken. Also, would it make the Gaelic Football even less competitive? I'd say it definitely would for the first few years anyway, where the weaker counties are changing habbits of a lifetime and the likes of Kerry's superiority would become even more evident. I don't see a whole lot wrong with some teams handpassing approach anyway, as long as their making progess up the pitch. It's the lateral and backward handpassing that's tough on the eye. There's no real extra skill in kicking the ball to a guy a few yards away from you, it's more the long kicked passes that tends to separate the good from the bad.
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Post by shaggy04 on Aug 29, 2011 12:37:23 GMT
puke football is alive and well, my fear is that dublin will try a similiar approach in the final instead of taking us on in a football match
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Post by Laoch na hImeartha on Aug 29, 2011 12:56:09 GMT
The funny thing is, the Dubs were so rattled by halftime that if Donegal came out and played proper football in the second half, they would have won handsomely.
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Post by TheCritic on Aug 29, 2011 13:16:35 GMT
I listened to Martin McHugh on the radio today. He suggested a way of combating this ultra defensive game was by decreeing you could only have a limited number of men behind the ball at any one time. Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous? Can't you imagine referees trying to police that? They do have a simaliar rule in ice hockey I think it's called "icing the puck". You have to have a certain amount of players in an advanced position. Not 100% sure of the rule but someting similar in football would be pretty easy to introduce. You need to maintain at least 3-4 players inside your attacking half of the field! Donegal were playing with just 1 for large parts of the game! Complete sham!!
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 29, 2011 13:51:23 GMT
Yesterday was utter muck.....the less said the better.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 29, 2011 13:58:31 GMT
Two of the best goals seen in Croke Park was Sean Og the Paor's against Kerry in 2000 and Paul Kerrigans (I think) against Donegal in 2009. Not sure if they are on youtube.
Both involved a lot of handpasses from Galway and Corks own end lines. When teams are prepared to use the handpass in a fast, incisive manner to break open a defence or break out from defence, it can be great to watch as those goals prove.
When it is used like Donegal used it yesterday, then it ruins the game.
I think myself that the ref got sick of what was going on and that led to the 4 or 5 soft scorable frees that Dublin got in the 2nd half which won them the game in the end. Its hard to be objective when one team resorts to that.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2011 14:05:34 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2011 14:06:57 GMT
As a defeated Tyrone supporter, I will be supporting Donegal on Sunday, I have been searching for All Ireland Final Tickets, like gold dust, so I have entered all the FREE competitions I can find - Irish Times - Town House Dublin - Globetrotters Hostel Dublin - are all running Free competitions for All Ireland Tickets, please let me know if there are any competitions I have missed. Annascaul underage fundraiser a fiver -- I'll put you down if you PM me!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2011 14:37:27 GMT
I seen a better sign in Donegal 37 > 92 That is the wrong way around my friend. 92>37.
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Post by timelyinterception on Aug 29, 2011 15:04:37 GMT
Yerra I think everyone on here commenting about Donegals negativity this year needs to get a grip. So what if their style is *. If Donegal went out in every match and tryed to play attractive football to keep all of us supporters and the media happy they would get totally annihilated. Quiet simply they don't have the players, they are not good enough. So like all good managers, McGuinness has the team playing to their Strenghts and it's working. Look at their results this year, only 2 defeats, a National title and an Ulster Championship. Quiet frankly, I wouldn't give a * how Kerry played football once they won then so be it. I'll put it this way, I'm an Arsenal fan, and they get all the great plaudits for their beautiful style of football they play, which is grand, but nothing to show for it. I'd prefer if they played like Stoke City and won the premiership, wouldn't care then about their style. Say if you were from a club with little or no success, and they adapted a Donegal style approach to their game, and then all of a sudden ye win a County championship or something, who is going to be complaining only the jealous people who have failed, or a bias media. Rant over!!!!!!
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 29, 2011 15:24:24 GMT
Sorry, but that's a load of horse manure.
Donegal could have and should have beaten Dublin, but their tactics wouldn't allow for that.
If Kerry ever decided to adopt tactics like that, I for one wouldn't watch them.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 29, 2011 15:29:13 GMT
Sorry, but that's a load of horse manure. Donegal could have and should have beaten Dublin, but their tactics wouldn't allow for that. If Kerry ever decided to adopt tactics like that, I for one wouldn't watch them. Here here
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on Aug 29, 2011 16:10:56 GMT
I'm an Arsenal fan, and they get all the great plaudits for their beautiful style of football they play, which is grand, but nothing to show for it. I'd prefer if they played like Stoke City and won the premiership Well why not change to supporting a winning team then? That's what the players do, isn't it? As long as the team pays enough...
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on Aug 29, 2011 16:12:43 GMT
It will be an intriguing contest - as would any match involving Donegal. The Dubs won't get the same amount of space in the semi. Diarmuid Connelly won't have another day like yesterday. Having said that I expect Dublin to have too much all over the field. Their ability to kick pass accurately into the forwards will help them counteract the smothering Donegal defence. You can say that again. I fully expect him to kick a bucketful of wides, miss two penalties and get sent off. I'll be reading palms on the Mall Wednesday and Friday afternoons from now on
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Post by nkgirl on Aug 29, 2011 16:47:41 GMT
Twas a 2 point win thou!!!!!!
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 29, 2011 18:04:03 GMT
Dublin were very defensive too yesterday remember.
In the Herald today, Eoin Liston makes the point that the two Dublin wing backs never came out to attack up the wings and this was clearly under instruction.
Dublin will have no compunction about putting 12 behind the ball against Kerry.
Gooch wont have room to breathe. Darren wont be able to catapult through from the 40.
The high ball to Donaghy wont be an option unless his fielding improves and the evidence so far is that he can jump at teh moment for some reason.
So it will come down to long range efforts for points from Tomas, Brosnan, Declan, Darren. Lets hope its not a windy day.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 29, 2011 18:28:37 GMT
It wasn't a great footballing spectacle to be honest. I know Kerry have 36 or whatever All Irelands already, but I hope they add another in 2011. The behaviour of the Dublin fans today was a disgrace. Constant booing of Donegal players taking frees, kickouts and in general play was disgraceful. Worst of all, was the booing of Donegal players when they were on the field injured. Absolute disgrace. They've taken their disgusting behaviour up a notch or two since they played us last year in the qualifiers. I'm always hearing about Dublin needing an All Ireland, the GAA needs Dublin etc etc. Well, if thats the sort of thing we'll be witnessing again from Dublin fans on All Ireland final day, the greatest occasion in Irish sport, I hope Kerry annihilate them. You my friend need to take off your blinkers and do something about your hearing. I guess you must have been too close to all the Donegal fans who were booing Dublin kicks and clapping/cheering wides to hear it. Some of the fans of all counties do this, but it's clear to me from a long time back that you watch Dublin games only to see what you want to see, and to hear what you want to hear. Good luck to you if it makes you feel good, I'm used to hearing it from many, that's just the way it is. I have nothing against Donegal and like Pat Gilroy I really admired the fight and intensity they brought to that game. It was the worst game I've ever seen, including terrible winter OByrne cup efforts, but Donegal's physicality and tackling (though at times illegal) was just incredible. You had to be at the match to see the power and hunger of them, the way they smashed and tore the ball from Dublin players' grip. However, regarding your comments about booing "injured" players, the following excerpt from one of the post match articles sums up my feelings about what Donegal's players were doing and why Dublin supporters were booing them. "Pragmatists will argue that the way Donegal play – or don’t play to be more accurate – is effective. Fair enough. It is to a degree. If they are ultimately successful and they win the football All-Ireland by rarely actually kicking the ball, time wasting and diving to have players sent off, then hats off to them." Fact is ArdMhacha, Donegal were incredibly cynical at times, the amount of off the ball stuff, the amount of illegal tackles they got away with, the amount of times some of their players went down for nothing to break up the game even further (whilst the ref let the game carry on for at least one Dublin player down) was truly sickening to watch. Not to mention their pre-match propoganda to put pressure on the ref. But you wouldn't notice any of that because it's not what you're looking for. I have no problem in saying that Dublin players (and Kerry players) do plenty of cynical stuff too. And that Dublin also played a very negative style yesterday. That's called balance. As for the ref's decisions, I saw many things he unfairly gave against us, so anything he gave us was more than balanced out. Anyway thanks for the congrats lads, all I will say is that I am so relieved today, and it's about time we won a semi!! I truly thought this game was gone at half-time, and early in the 2nd half. We were kicking the ball over the sideline, giving it away, dropping it, and generally playing right into Donegal's hands. I honestly couldn't see a way back and cotemplated the fall-out of what would have been our most nightmareish defeat ever, even including the Tyrone and Kerry hammerings a couple of years ago. Right now I just want to savour this and let it sink in, it's an incredible feeling to have escaped, and that really is the word, to have escaped from such a fate as seemed so likely. Also in the 2nd half I just want to say that our supporters on The Hill were magnificent, time and again raising the roof to lift their men and urge them on. And this started well before we got back into the game. And I was trying to do my bit whilst barely having a voice, shaking with tension and anger, and a mouth full of bitten nails! So to all the usual bitter begrudgers who say the fans don't help the team, you know where you can stick it! We have the best supporters, the real ones I mean, in the country. And that will never be taken away from us. I'd say Kerry will be laughing all the way to September 18th after that spectacle yesterday, every old failing Dublin teams ever had, and every weakness and deficit were on full display. Except that they found the heart to dig it out, against a team of man-beasts that tired and eventually died, and had no way of attacking in the last 10 minutes. The Gooch will be whooping with delight. And as for Mr McQuillan Kerrygold, how you can say that a man who gave Tyrone 36 frees and Dublin 12, and who made some terrible decisions against us in the Cork match last year, will give Kerry nothing, is laughable too. Every Kerry fan must be licking their lips at the prospect of what he will do to ensure the victory for "the home of football", and the victory of real football. Pat Gilroy will just have to make do with the plaudits for having resurrected Dublin football from the apocalyptic collapse against Kerry two years ago, to reaching an All-I final. The hard way. Some achievement in itself. But let's not start into all of that stuff now, there's 3 great weeks of anticipation and banter to be enjoyed. May the best team win. And I think we will have to kill the Gooch!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 29, 2011 19:29:53 GMT
Annascaultilidie, that is the right way around , my friend. Donegal won it in '92 and Kerry, well almost 37, ok 36 is > 92 so!
What do you all think of this Tyroneitis dilemma? Anti-football but can win games, still Kerry won more than anyone else sespite this 'puic' stuff. What can be done to preserve class from risk of this ugly stuff?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2011 19:31:21 GMT
Annascaultilidie, that is the right way around , my friend. Donegal won it in '92 and Kerry, well almost 37, ok 36 is > 92 so! What do you all think of this Tyroneitis dilemma? Anti-football but can win games, still Kerry won more than anyone else sespite this 'puic' stuff. What can be done to preserve class from risk of this ugly stuff? "92 is bigger than 37" is written 92 > 37 --- that's what I meant. PS: Dublin did actually win the match remember.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2011 19:58:41 GMT
It wasn't a great footballing spectacle to be honest. I know Kerry have 36 or whatever All Irelands already, but I hope they add another in 2011. The behaviour of the Dublin fans today was a disgrace. Constant booing of Donegal players taking frees, kickouts and in general play was disgraceful. Worst of all, was the booing of Donegal players when they were on the field injured. Absolute disgrace. They've taken their disgusting behaviour up a notch or two since they played us last year in the qualifiers. I'm always hearing about Dublin needing an All Ireland, the GAA needs Dublin etc etc. Well, if thats the sort of thing we'll be witnessing again from Dublin fans on All Ireland final day, the greatest occasion in Irish sport, I hope Kerry annihilate them. You my friend need to take off your blinkers and do something about your hearing. I guess you must have been too close to all the Donegal fans who were booing Dublin kicks and clapping/cheering wides to hear it. Some of the fans of all counties do this, but it's clear to me from a long time back that you watch Dublin games only to see what you want to see, and to hear what you want to hear. Good luck to you if it makes you feel good, I'm used to hearing it from many, that's just the way it is. I have nothing against Donegal and like Pat Gilroy I really admired the fight and intensity they brought to that game. It was the worst game I've ever seen, including terrible winter OByrne cup efforts, but Donegal's physicality and tackling (though at times illegal) was just incredible. You had to be at the match to see the power and hunger of them, the way they smashed and tore the ball from Dublin players' grip. However, regarding your comments about booing "injured" players, the following excerpt from one of the post match articles sums up my feelings about what Donegal's players were doing and why Dublin supporters were booing them. "Pragmatists will argue that the way Donegal play � or don�t play to be more accurate � is effective. Fair enough. It is to a degree. If they are ultimately successful and they win the football All-Ireland by rarely actually kicking the ball, time wasting and diving to have players sent off, then hats off to them." Fact is ArdMhacha, Donegal were incredibly cynical at times, the amount of off the ball stuff, the amount of illegal tackles they got away with, the amount of times some of their players went down for nothing to break up the game even further (whilst the ref let the game carry on for at least one Dublin player down) was truly sickening to watch. Not to mention their pre-match propoganda to put pressure on the ref. But you wouldn't notice any of that because it's not what you're looking for. I have no problem in saying that Dublin players (and Kerry players) do plenty of cynical stuff too. And that Dublin also played a very negative style yesterday. That's called balance. As for the ref's decisions, I saw many things he unfairly gave against us, so anything he gave us was more than balanced out. Anyway thanks for the congrats lads, all I will say is that I am so relieved today, and it's about time we won a semi!! I truly thought this game was gone at half-time, and early in the 2nd half. We were kicking the ball over the sideline, giving it away, dropping it, and generally playing right into Donegal's hands. I honestly couldn't see a way back and cotemplated the fall-out of what would have been our most nightmareish defeat ever, even including the Tyrone and Kerry hammerings a couple of years ago. Right now I just want to savour this and let it sink in, it's an incredible feeling to have escaped, and that really is the word, to have escaped from such a fate as seemed so likely. Also in the 2nd half I just want to say that our supporters on The Hill were magnificent, time and again raising the roof to lift their men and urge them on. And this started well before we got back into the game. And I was trying to do my bit whilst barely having a voice, shaking with tension and anger, and a mouth full of bitten nails! So to all the usual bitter begrudgers who say the fans don't help the team, you know where you can stick it! We have the best supporters, the real ones I mean, in the country. And that will never be taken away from us. I'd say Kerry will be laughing all the way to September 18th after that spectacle yesterday, every old failing Dublin teams ever had, and every weakness and deficit were on full display. Except that they found the heart to dig it out, against a team of man-beasts that tired and eventually died, and had no way of attacking in the last 10 minutes. The Gooch will be whooping with delight. And as for Mr McQuillan Kerrygold, how you can say that a man who gave Tyrone 36 frees and Dublin 12, and who made some terrible decisions against us in the Cork match last year, will give Kerry nothing, is laughable too. Every Kerry fan must be licking their lips at the prospect of what he will do to ensure the victory for "the home of football", and the victory of real football. Pat Gilroy will just have to make do with the plaudits for having resurrected Dublin football from the apocalyptic collapse against Kerry two years ago, to reaching an All-I final. The hard way. Some achievement in itself. But let's not start into all of that stuff now, there's 3 great weeks of anticipation and banter to be enjoyed. May the best team win. And I think we will have to kill the Gooch! Your some operator in fairness, the Eamonn kelly of the forum. You can bend a yarn like Beckham can bend a ball Congrats on winning yesterday - looking forward to the three weeks of lessons in the art of propaganda. BB was well protected by Deegan yesterday , having been throw several life bouys ?
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