Discuss:Weight training, fitness training,diet etc

[physicalaspect]

Kerry pride themselves on the level of skill they have on the field and the magic they can make happen with the football. However
,the importance of weight training, diet, fitness drills, supplements and other efforts players make in their own time, in the modern game cannot be under estimated. From club level to county level this is a very important part of improving footballers game and is especially becoming more and more important in developing young footballers with regard to weight training in particular. Some footballers are very gifted in terms of technical ability but are a bit light or weak to make the breakthrough to the next level. 50/50 balls have to be won. Tackles have to be broken, Speed and power in the first 10 yards is vital. To some players the physical aspect of the game makes them the players that they are and many games are won by putting in hits, winning dirty ball, holding off your marker, being a yard faster, being able to jump that inch higher and having the stamina to do it over and over. A lot of this physical training, fitness training, running drills etc is done in the individuals own time away from the team training sessions and requires great dedication and commitment.

The Idea of starting this topic was for members to discuss different fitness drills, weight training programs,nutrition, supplements, injury prevention, recovery etc..

[mountainy_man]

I def agree with all the above.

Think we are (rightly) going to see much more of an emphasis on specific weight training and conditioning work done particularly with the development squads .

In terms of our very young players I believe we should encourage as much skills development as possible. Full stop.

However for the development squads at U16 and for players aspiring to be on the minor panels weight training (specific to Gaelic Football) will be very important. Otherwise we will fall behind other counties like cork and tyrone who are doing this.

I know for a fact the Cork Minor players were each given a weight training programme in Oct/Nov last year to build themselves up. You could see it in them last Sunday in Killarney. (Altho having said that the football they played wasn’t overly impressive!)

Look at any of the current county senior teams this year and compare the physical conditioning of them even compared with Senior Intercounty teams 5 years ago. Big difference.

Kerry introduced Pat Flanagan after the debacle versus Tyrone in 2003 and in fairness we haven’t been found wanting in the physical stakes since.

[physicalaspect]

Jul 8, 2010 10:43:50 GMT mountainy_man said:

In terms of our very young players I believe we should encourage as much skills development as possible. Full stop.

I didn't mean the thread to be a skills training versus weight training topic. Both are very important in the modern game.

However I do believe that here in kerry a lot of young fellows on club teams are not educated enough on how to look after their bodies through nutrition, recovery, muscle building, flexibility training etc... And for some lads this knowledge can make a huge difference in the level they can play at. How many times have you been watching a match and hear someone say "he's a handy player but hes very light". Ive heard it time and time again. I have also often heard mangers and selectors at club level say "he'd walk on the team if he filled out a bit. What really frustrates me is when management do nothing when they have a talented footballer at 19 or 20 years of age and have the attitude "yeara he'll fill out in time" when in fact often times the player misses out in reaching his full potential because of genetics. The player looses out, and the team looses out, Often through no fault of the management or the player but because of lack of knowledge of this relatively new but very important method of preparation for football. This is where clubs in more urban counties are ahead of us. For some reason winter weights programmes (from club level Up) seem to be a big part in the preparation and development of young players and older players and this in my opinion is where we really need to step up our game in this county. Its importance can't be underestimated or we will well and truly fall behind. This was clear to be seen at the minor munster final and hopefully it will be an eye opener. Just to give examples of how it develops players. Take stephen kelly for limerick. It was not the football but the rugby at shannon that has given him the solid physique he has today, He put in big hits against kerry and broke tackles that he would not have if it wasn't for the gym work he did with shannon. The best player in the country last year Paul Galvin would not be the player he is today if he relied on his skill alone and if it wasn't for him putting in a huge effort outside of football to build a physique that allows him to constantly take hits, give hits, win breaking balls etc.
These are just two examples of the many players who would not have been naturally very big but didn't let it hold them back. Don't get me wrong it is just as important for the big lads but personally I hate nothing more in football than a player not being able to shine because of the simple reason that he is too light. Whether management at club level in particular organise a personal trainer to write up a winter training programme for their development players or the players themselves go to a pt and request programmes i personally believe that it would benefit individuals and teams greatly for the following season.

If anyone has personal experience in this area or advice for players, managers, coaches etc who are interested then fire away.
Go raibh maith agat

[pumakings]

Physicalaspect,what would a sample weights programme for a footballer look like?

[physicalaspect]

Jul 8, 2010 17:01:19 GMT pumakings said:

Physicalaspect,what would a sample weights programme for a footballer look like?

pumakings it depends on a lot of different things like body type, metabolism, what they want to achieve etc. But for general strength gains this one seems to be popular...

www.startingstrength.net/workouts/

The main thing for strength is to stick to compound exercises such as bench press, deadlift, squats. some people see better results if they do the different body parts on separate days eg legs Monday, chest Wednesday, back/shoulders Friday.. This allows them to put maximum effort into the individual body parts on each training session without having to reserve energy for other exercises. Nutrition and recovery are as if not more important than the workouts and a personal trainer will be able to advise you on what will suit you best.
Hopefully more members can give their advice.

[kooky]

i often heard that a circuit type weights session is good for sports like gaa and aussie rules, not as heavy weights as the strength trainng but high reps with short recovery between each exercise!

what u think of this type training?

also well done physicalaspect on starting a very interesting trend!!

[physicalaspect]

Jul 9, 2010 16:42:10 GMT kooky said:

i often heard that a circuit type weights session is good for sports like gaa and aussie rules, not as heavy weights as the strength trainng but high reps with short recovery between each exercise!

what u think of this type training?

also well done physicalaspect on starting a very interesting trend!!

Yes circuit training is a great type of training as it gets you fit, improves your recovery time and also tones up muscle. So it would be an ideal training for someone that does not need to gain explosive power or muscle mass as it prepares a footballer for the intensity of a football match and the need to be able to recover fast with minimal breaks. It is also a good team training because a lot of people can be in the circuit at the same time.
This routine however wouldn't really benefit someone who needed to put on a half stone of muscle and bulk up over the winter. It depends on what you want to achieve really.

[physicalaspect]

Can anyone here tell us what the current kerry team training sessions would consist of at the moment with regard to fitness drills as I would imagine they would be upping the tempo since the final?

[kerrygold]

Laps, wire to wirers and three quarter pace goal mouth to goal mouth. Press ups, sit ups, a little stretching followed by backs and forwards.


Why to your enquire?

[mountainy_man]

Jul 17, 2010 17:49:47 GMT kerrygold said:

Laps, wire to wirers and three quarter pace goal mouth to goal mouth. Press ups, sit ups, a little stretching followed by backs and forwards.


A great reply from someone from the 1950's hashing out a lazy response.
Would shake this man back into the modern era pls...

[kerrygold]

Jul 17, 2010 21:16:25 GMT mountainy_man said:

Jul 17, 2010 17:49:47 GMT kerrygold said:

Laps, wire to wirers and three quarter pace goal mouth to goal mouth. Press ups, sit ups, a little stretching followed by backs and forwards.


A great reply from someone from the 1950's hashing out a lazy response.
Would shake this man back into the modern era pls...

O ya right,apologies. Some teams are using modern professional coaches from other codes in the modern game. Que Armagh

[kerryeye]

Que Kerry KG.where do you think Pat Flanagan learnt all his techniques from?Mainly from athlethics i think.And i'm not certain about this and open to correction but was Alan O Sullivan not involved in rugby before his footballing coaching.

You were schooled on the Mick o Dwyer coaching manual though im guessing KG.That proved successful enough aswell i suppose! :-)

[kooky]

think the kerry training is a little more advanced that simple labs, wire to wire and sit ups, the gale rangers team of 1998 were doing harder traing than that!!!

[1stsub]

Jul 17, 2010 17:49:47 GMT kerrygold said:

Laps, wire to wirers and three quarter pace goal mouth to goal mouth. Press ups, sit ups, a little stretching followed by backs and forwards.


Why to your enquire?

now thats a good session, dont mind your fancy cones & ball drills.

[brigid]

I think that someone has a vested interest in promoting physical training. Thats Ok but young people should be very careful. I knew 2 minors (17 & 18) that went to the gym. That was 4 years ago. Since then they have hardly played any games. Out injured most of the time with complaints some people never heard of before.

Dublin people are glad that Kerry are now following the Dub example of "development" squads. To date in Dublin this has succeeded in ensuring that any great individual flair was removed from the players by "coaching". Its little wonder that Dublin have no real leaders in their team. With Kerry now following Dublin's example it should ensure that the gap between Dublin and Kerry football will be reduced. Add in the physical training and you will have a fine body of Kerry players with little skills and no leadership on the field. Look at the Down and Kildare teams this year. Feck all good it did Armagh. Cork minors might look good but surely we are not worried about minor teams. Can anyone name the the winners of the last 5 minor Al-Irelands? Its men we are talking about, not boys.

[kerryeye]

Id agree with you there Brigid.When Pat O Driscoll was named minor manager this year he said that he'd be looking for more physical and bigger players this year.I didnt like to read this as it suggested to me that if a player of 6'3 and 14 stone was out there then he'd pick him ahead of the more natural skillful player who might be 5'10 and 10 stone(colm cooper anyone!!).I think we should be looking to the player with the football ability at 16,7 or 18 and when/if he reaches a senior panel then build him up if thats what he needs,again ill point to Gooch's frame,which doesnt appear to have got much bigger and that hasnt stoped him.

[buck02]

Jul 23, 2010 15:18:29 GMT brigid said:

I think that someone has a vested interest in promoting physical training. Thats Ok but young people should be very careful. I knew 2 minors (17 & 18) that went to the gym. That was 4 years ago. Since then they have hardly played any games. Out injured most of the time with complaints some people never heard of before.

Dublin people are glad that Kerry are now following the Dub example of "development" squads. To date in Dublin this has succeeded in ensuring that any great individual flair was removed from the players by "coaching". Its little wonder that Dublin have no real leaders in their team. With Kerry now following Dublin's example it should ensure that the gap between Dublin and Kerry football will be reduced. Add in the physical training and you will have a fine body of Kerry players with little skills and no leadership on the field. Look at the Down and Kildare teams this year. Feck all good it did Armagh. Cork minors might look good but surely we are not worried about minor teams. Can anyone name the the winners of the last 5 minor Al-Irelands? Its men we are talking about, not boys.

Brigid with all due respect what you have done here is display an ignorance in relation to the function of the development squads.

There are 60 lads U14/15/16 each year who are nutured along and ensure that they receive the type of coaching at 14 that they need (which could be lacking at the club the boy in question plays with). It also challenges guys of that age to "raise the bar" somewhat as they may have developed bad habits from being a big fish in a small pond with their club.

Furthermore it gives guys a chance from small clubs, not alligned to the powerhouse schools, to have their potential showcased for the minor team in 3/2/1 years time.

[brigid]

What I have stated is that this is the system in Dublin and with what results. If you have been following football for some time you will be amazed of the number of players who peak at 14, 16 and 18. With the squad system very few of these are dropped.

in relation to coaching, the individual flair that a lot of young players have will be removed and then in a few years why Kerry have no leaders like Dara O'Sé. Dublin seem to be changing from the squad players this year in that Fitzsimons and O'Gara both won Junior All-Irelands with Dublin a few years ago so they would not have come through the squad system.

[senditin]

If anyone is interested in a new nutation products used by a lot of teams let me a Private Message

[physicalaspect]

It looks like there could be a few retirements in the kerry senior set up this year. This autum/ winter will be a very important time for players that are hoping to make the break through. It is a time for fringe players that are serious about stepping up to the mark to take the bull by the horns so that come january they are physically and mentally prepared and ready to impress.

[Chinatown]

Some serious runners in Banna this am for 10k. Just under 34 mins won it

[blablabla]

Jul 25, 2010 21:21:10 GMT senditin said:

If anyone is interested in a new nutation products used by a lot of teams let me a Private Message

Just wondering..what products do they use?

[physicalaspect]

Aug 3, 2010 14:09:47 GMT blablabla said:

Jul 25, 2010 21:21:10 GMT senditin said:

If anyone is interested in a new nutation products used by a lot of teams let me a Private Message

Just wondering..what products do they use?

Most players would pay particular attention their diet which would vary depending on the time of year. i.e on season or off season. For example many players will try and bulk up during the off season so they would consume large amounts of protein and carbohydrate along with certain fats and vitamins. Eating usually 6 meals a day. Protein or weight gain shakes can be used to substitute a meal if they struggle to find the time to prepare meals. Along with this diet they would workout 4 times a week max to allow for proper recovery and do heavy compound weights i.e squats, bench, deadlift, shoulder press etc increasing the weight lifted in each workout. Light cardio would be carried out on non training days. so basically they would eat loads, lift heavy and rest. In the on season they would lift once a week to maintain their gains.

Everybody is different and this is just 1 example which is mainly aimed at younger players.

As for products. No product is better than a good meal in my opinion but they are helpful if you dont have time to prepare food with work etc.. My advice would be to ask the sturdy boys in the gym what supplements they are taking (legal of course). If you meet a skinny little guy telling you that he found the ultimate muscle building protein shake, he is not the guy to take advice from.

[physicalaspect]

I was looking for information on the Internet of players height and weight but a lot of the information to me doesn't seem to be very accurate, For example Dara O Se is down at 6'0 when he is at least 6'1 on a bad day. Galvin is down at 12 stone which is very doubtful considering his muscular physique, Tomas o Se is at 12.5 stone, again doubtful.

If anyone can direct me towards accurate information it will be greatly appreciated.

[himself]

I was at a Kerry/Cork game in Pairc Ui Caoimh around the millenium (can't remember the year, but I remember it was a blazing hot day, myself and the brother bought a couple of two litres of water and passed them around) and the programme had pen pictures of the players. Virtually everybody's favourite film was 'The Shawshank Redemption' and the favourite food was invariably 'steak', 'pasta' or 'steak and pasta'. Dara O Cinneide was an exception there, he had a recipe for thai fish stew as I recall, and Tomas O Se was another - his favourite food was 'anything cooked by my mother'.
It had height and weight of every player (so incredibly inaccurate it was unbelievable) except one. Conor Counihan's weight was inexplicably absent.
We were pointing this out when a Cork supporter beside us grinned.
'Yerra, lads,' he said, 'It fluctuates'.
Brought the house down.

[physicalaspect]

Anyone have a link to information?

[kooky]

think cork are the best physically conditioned team in ireland at the moment, they were boxing training during the winter last year , done serious weight promgrammes over the past few years, reckon that there physical condition will stand to them on sunday!

[physicalaspect]

Sept 17, 2010 12:34:34 GMT kooky said:

think cork are the best physically conditioned team in ireland at the moment, they were boxing training during the winter last year , done serious weight programs over the past few years, reckon that there physical condition will stand to them on sunday!

Cork put in a big effort over the winter when it comes to conditioning and strength training and this starts at minor level. In the modern game it is becoming more and more important. Lets hope that kerry realize its importance. People of the gooch's quality are rare and not many can rely on skill alone to make them great. Many need bulk on their frames to take hits, give hits, break tackles, win 50/50's, hold a player off when fielding a ball. Boxing training is a great winter programme for aerobic fitness as it allows knocks and niggles to the legs to heal and when there are winters like last year and the ground is rock hard with ice e.t.c it is a great indoor way to keep the fitness up.

[chrism]

Anybody see Counihan's interview on Irish Examiner today. Told them all turn up at Cork Airport with their passports last Spring. Brought them to Bere Island for a weekend from hell instead.
Meanwhile our boys were off in the Sun for their training.

[physicalaspect]

Sept 25, 2010 23:16:18 GMT chrism said:

Anybody see Counihan's interview on Irish Examiner today. Told them all turn up at Cork Airport with their passports last Spring. Brought them to Bere Island for a weekend from hell instead.
Meanwhile our boys were off in the Sun for their training.

Sounds like army training tactics.