Does hurling fit in a Kerry jersey?

[greengoldfroggy]

This is my first time proposing a discussion subject, making me in the event a "virgin proposal", which when I left Ireland in the dark '80s (economically speaking, it was '86 when I left, just at the end but at least we had Sam ) would have resulted in counselling fom nuns. Moving swiftly along to my point which is the following; When are we in Kerry going to allow Hurling the place it deserves?

Our county's first All-Ireland was gained by the hurlers from North Kerry ( mainly Ballyduff ) for the 1891 chamionship and in a moribund decade (1960's) it was again the hurlers ( Junior All-Ireland 1961 ) that provided welcome relief from footballing failure with some dual stars such as Johnny Culloty, and Niall Sheehy from Boherbee, proving that at least one town in Kerry can produce hurlers! This trend continued in 1972 when the hurlers again raised the Green and Gold, with success in the Junior final. In addition it should not be forgotten that Pat McCarthy ( Pearse Brothers, Churchill ) who won two senior medals in '75 and '78 won several senior hurling medals in Kildare where he had settled from 1971.

Hurling is very much the poor relation in Kerry with little or no interest outside North Kerry. This presents a problem as to the future of the game in the county. The existence of all North Kerry teams is defined by the number of times that they have beaten the other clubs in any given year and this begins at u-12! Now it is well known that without a throughfow there is stagnation. In other words Kerry has become the village idiot of Munster hurling.

The responsibility for the current precarious position of the game in Kerry lies with the County board and no other. For how much longer are we to be presented with the annual sacrificial slaughter of Kerry teams on the high altar of hurling? True, football is the priority but would it not be advantageous to have a Kerry hurling team that could win a Munster title? Is it possible that the people could give a few more pounds to the County's cause which is after all glory to the true Green and Gold!

[ExiledDownUnder]

Excellent post froggy. Last year was the ultimate disgrace with Kerry pulling out of the championship altogether. However, I think the Munster council were very underhand and didn't treat Kerry with the respect they deserved. When Kerry decided to re-enter the Munster championship they did so under the promise from the Munster council that they would get home games for the next 3 years. This is what was needed to bring some much needed attention to hurling in Kerry, a chance for the public to see some of the bigger names on Kerry soil. Now what happened? A game against the defending Munster champions in 2003, AWAY, in Waterford. Kerry progressed well in the qualifiers and really put it up to Limerick, and could've won that game. Remember Brick's goal chance late on in the game? The following year Kerry again played the defending Munster champions AWAY in Cork. No wonder the players were disheartened after that. They were badly let down by the Munster Council in this matter. Players lost interest, felt all they were getting was lip service and we had the fiasco of last year.

Munster is the strongest hurling province and Kerry should be up there challenging. Hurling needs massive promotion and as you say you need the funds in order to do this. You have to get the foundations right when building anything and so interest needs to be built up in the national schools. Kids need to be encouraged 1st of all to play the game. You need the right men in the right positions to harness, the skills of the game with the kids in national schools 1st and work from there. Get their touch right, their striking of the ball and their grip and work from there upwards. When the right foundations are in place you can build on from there.

The new format in the Championship will prevent the one sided games we saw against Waterford in 2003 and Cork in 2004 from happening next year so with a bit of luck, a good run in the Christy Ring cup is not out of the question, perhaps even winning it outright. You would hope something like that would provide a great boost within the county. The GAA needs to promote the other 2 competitions though and not soley focus on the All Ireland. It's a huge task of course and nothing's going to happen overnight but they must start building now and begin to get things going in the right direction. This applies to the County Board promoting the game within the county and trying to get the structures in place that will increase the profile of the game down the road and to the top brass in the GAA to help get the smaller competitions promoted properly so that they are in the public eye so to speak. It's all well and good promoting football well in counties that are strong footballing counties, but this must not be at the expense of hurling. Sometimes hurling gets forgotten in the stronger footballing counties. I would also say that this applies in reverse to the situation in Kilkenny with the state of football in that county.

I think the GAA have started the ball rolling in terms of trying to address this issue. It's hugely important that nobody takes their eye of the ball on this one and that more and more continues to be done. Imagine one day seeing the green and gold competing in Thurles on Munster final day against the likes of Tipp, Waterford or Cork in the hurling? Let's hope for a strong Kerry showing in the Chritsy Ring cup next year and that the games get the profile and coverage they deserve and that we can push on from here. Small steps but hopefully we'll there in the end!

Sorry for the rant! I was only typing a paragraph and all of a sudden twas an essay!

[austinstacksabu]

Couldn't agree more. However, the charge which the county board will put right back at you, is that it is the clubs that need to start playing hurling again, clubs like Stacks, Crokes, O'Rahillys etc, clubs with larger numbers of kids going through the doors.

The county board will also say that they have limited resources, that Kerry football being so successful at all levels costs an awful lot of money - that they don't have the large investment available to put into developing hurling in the county. The clubs will tell you that they also have limited resources, that they can't afford to focus on both codes - surviving in their football division and prospering in the championship is key.

So, who can fund this:

Sponsors? No, as they have little or no return from it for a number of years. The type of programme Kerry need is one that will see incremental growth in numbers and achievements over 7 / 8 years (like Wexford did in the early 90's with their u14 teams - building them up in the hope of finding one or two extra senior players on top of the usual factory belt throwing out lads from the schools teams etc).

Benefactor? JP McManus is a Limerick man - there goes that.

Munster council? Jackpot. They have the resources, they have the money as they don't have to spend on actual teams apart from the railway cup teams. Imagine charging an extra €2 per person at each Munster hurling championship match, with this used as a development tax - make it clear to the fans that this is where their cash is going - designate Kerry a weaker county and put about 60% of that funding into developing underage hurling in Kerry.

Development scheme: We funded Killarney's redevelopment to the tune of €3m. In Stacks we gave €300,000 towards building the new dressing rooms in Connolly Park. Ask the GAA patrons do they want hurling developed in Kerry - ask them to help fund it - a co share between us and the GAA.

[ashes04]

Personally I believe what we are talking about here is the artificial insemination of hurling into the county and due to this artificial process the onus lies primarily on the shoulders of the primary schools. If hurling has some form of tradition in an area then the weight of ecpectation has to lean towards the clubs but inareas with no tradition i Firmly believe that the only way to target this problem is at primary levels.
I can only speak from Listowels perspective and we are not that far geographically from the strongholds and still hurling was so far from my upbringing it's almost unnatural. I remember visiting cousins in Cork as a young fella being bemused at people puckin the ball around the place. A teacher in St. Michaels attempted to introduce it a number of years ago in the town but as ye all know secondary school is too late to introduce this highly skillful game. St. Micks would just turn up and get thrashed and interest is lost almost immediately. Skills and smaller leagues have to be introduced in primary otherwise it will not happen in Kerry.

[FiorGhael]

start with the basics. every child in the county has a football/soccer ball. a simple start would be to give children hurleys. i dont think we should force children into football- if hurling was available in the schools and clubs (agree with stacks on this one), children would have a choice.

hurling has a tradition in kerry. even before the win in 1891, parishes were playing hurling against in the county- i remember reading that hurling was played on the beach on the blasket in the last century.

the biggest problem facing hurling in kerry is that no matter how good a hurler is, he will always be pressured to play football.

[tango]

Ok lads,

A question for ye and answer honestly

If the gooch was as good a hurler as a footballer would ye be happy for him to play hurling with Kerry also

Eg what if Kerry were playing a hurling championship match a week before the Munster football final, would ye want him to play and risk injury.

Personally I would not want gooch to play hurling.

Whilst a superior game to watch, I would not sacrifice glory in the football for it

If a county like Cork are struggling to be successful in both what chance Kerry with a quarter of the population?

It is impossible now to be a dual player so one of the codes will always be the poorer relation and in Kerry it just happens to be the hurling.

[larry]

excellent post greengold froggy.by the way does anyone have a report from the kerry/limerick u21 game last year when we should have won even though we were without b.brick and joe bunyan i think.please post it on this thread.

[madmac999]

Good Shout lads and Lasses. Its about time someone brought this serious problem to a head.. be it the County Board, a Divisional Board, a Club or even the Senior Kerry Hurling team themselves. its fine us talking about it here but we can't do anything to rectify the situation. The problem has to be first of all aknowledged by the county board... a start would be if they they actually began to accept or even acknowledge that the game of hurling exists in this fair county. The closest the county Board get to dealing with anything hurling related is either dishing out fines to Ballyduf annually, calling off hurling matches due to football teams wanting to use the same pitch or choosing a new manager for the Kerry hurling team (usually because the last one has left due to a lack of support from Players/clubs/ and county board). there are plenty of good hurlers in this county (Shane Brick would walk any hurling team in any other county hence the interest shown by the Limerick hurlers in him). we have development squads for football why not hurling?
its about time someone in power in this county got the thumb out and did something productive for hurling in this county!!!!

[austinstacksabu]

Although I probably live in cloud cookoo land, I honestly believe that if a player is skillful enough, he can play dual intercounty for a while in his early prime.

Sacrifices would need to be made - his attendance at training in both codes (but with somebody like Pat Flanagan overseeing all physical training for all Kerry GAA activity at some point it could easily be managed) - and the need to protect them from playing both codes at either club or minor and u21 intercounty. It's the burnout at the early stages that kills the dual players.

Lets see how Mattie Forde gets on with Wexford this year seeing as Conal Keaney is gone to the Dublin footballers. He didn't do the dual status until now, and has escaped the minor, u21 burnout route.

[tango]

Yeah would love to see more dual players but the difficulty would be with the clubs and also the fact that one code is traditonally stronger so the weaker code would lose out.

[madmac999]

Who was the last dual player from Kerry who played both intercounty hurling and football for kerry?

[SteelFixer]

I'd say the last player to play senior hurling and football for Kerry at the same time was Tom O' Connell from Abbeydorney around 1992/93. A load of fella's, like Galvin and Fitzmaurice would have played for both teams in different years, or would have played senior hurling and underage football in the same year.

Dual players were common enough in years gone by. Johny Culloty (Killarney), Johny Bunyan (Ballyduff), Declan & Sean Lovett (Kilmoyley) and Niall Sheehy (Mitchels) were some of the more prominent players to play senior in both codes throughout the 1950's,60's and 70's. However, probably the most famous of all Kerry dual players was Tom Collins (Kilmoyley). He played in three Munster finals in the one day in Killarney around 1956. He played full matches with the Kerry junior footballers and the Kerry senior hurlers (competeing in the JHC), winning both, before coming on as a sub for the Kerry senior footballers at half time and losing by a point.

This must be one of the great individual performances by any player in the history of the GAA.

[madmac999]

Thanks SteelFixer for the info. Very interesting. Suppose Fitzmaurice would make the grade for Kerry Hurlers if he wanted to.

[CappaT]

Yes, absolutely yes.

Kerry has produced many fine hurlers over the years.

Yes, absolutely yes.

[SteelFixer]

No problem madmac999, anytime you have a query don't hesitate to ask, and I'll do my best to sort you out !

[ginger]

Some very good comment. However, I would exclude the Co. Board from any blame. I think they are committed to hurling as much as football if the hurlers responded.
Just think of Offaly, a small county have made the break through in both codes and Derry also.
The dual player is a problem because the player who is good at one of the games is also good at the other if he really wishes. To combat this the GAA at the higest level should make the Dual-Star All-Stars their the real icons of the GAA. The top fifteen each year should be given free admittance to Croke Park for life as genuine recognition of the esteem in which they are held. It would be still cheaper than sending them to Mexico or Honululu.
A major problem in Kerry is that the hurling area straddles two divisions. It means that these two divisions must work in tandem with the Nth. Kerry football and hurling Boards and the Co. Board. A few years ago a problem arose with Ballyduff regarding fixtures and since then Hurling has been on a downward slope. The most tragic result is that Ballyduff who masterminded Kerry's first All-Ireland victory seem to be deserting hurling for football. It has already happened in places like Tralee, Killarneyand Templenoe and it is time to take serious stock.
The GAA was formed primarily to preserve hurling - football was an afterthought. It is our national game. But as I said in another post nationalism seems to be a dirty word with many current members and administrators. We are the only nation in the world with such a spectacular game and we Kerry people should be doing a little extra to promote it.

[mossie]

Hurling has a place in a Kerry jersey and for Kerry to concede a walkover at a time when we have a Kerry GAA President was particularly embarrasing. Kerry is not a hurling county we all know that and will always be a poor relation but knowledgable hurling folk from hurling counties will point out the marvellous hurlers Kerry have produced that stood out in any company. One is present day Kerry football selector Johnny Culloty who played hurling with Kerry for 15 years at a time when Killarney were a force in club hurling. Brendan Hennessy from Ballyduff won rave reviews hurling with New York in National league finals for New York in the 1950s and 1960s so much so that few believed he was a native of Kerry. Kilmoyley a tiny parish where football does not exist anymore has produced Declan Lovett, Christy Walsh and Shane Brick. Of course its also the home of Tom Collins who played in 3 munster finals in killarney in one day Intermediate Hurling, Junior Football and senior football.

The game needs to expand signs are encouraging with the like of Rathmore, Crokes, Dingle and Duagh fielding juvenile teams but will these clubs continue at it when pressure comes on from the football sides of the club for lads to concentrate on football??? As it is traditional hurling clubs like Ballyduff, Lixnaw(Finuge), Ardfert are treating hurling and football equally hence we have players from these clubs featuring on county football teams at all levels allowing the likes of Paul Galvin and Eamon Fitz to win all ireland football medals coming from hurling backrounds.

Surely its time the football clubs who call themselves GAA clubs gave a similar commitment to the small ball game. Of course hurling clubs, players need to take a look at themselves the county championship is not the be all and end of hurling. Still hurling in Kerry has ssomething special county hurling final day draws almost 5,000 people every year in a county where only a tiny fraction of clubs play the game. The sense of occassion nearly always beats the football final. I thought the county hurling this year has an electric atmosphere between Kilmoyley and Causeway and was a great days entertainment. Plenty exists to build on. Hurling in kerry should not be the butt of the jokes like it is if everyone was rowing in the one direction.

[mossiemag]

to say that the county board are blameless is a joke! Do the hurlers get the same treatment as the footballers? NO! and why is that? not too long ago i remember the hurlers had to make their own way to matches up the country.

[katey]

I'm no expert on hurling. I came from no tradition of GAA. But I love to watch a hurling match...means alot of travellin as I live in West Kerry. It can be damn difficult tracking down last minute changes to venues and times and days when you're not affiliated to the clubs. Radio Kerry are poor enough on the hurling.Listened this morning and all the hurling talk was of the Quarter Finals...fair enough, but our Seniors had played on the Saturday, and all they got was a few seconds of a mention with the closing music for the show being played...disgraceful! I drove 130 miles to Borris in Ossory to watch the minor hurlers play a couple of weeks back...not too many made that journey. It does need promotion. It's a brave and proud sport...I've no time for the footballers. I felt proud of the minors, after all the slagging they and the manager and selectors got at the beginning of the season..and yes, they were slaughtered in some of those mismatches...I wonder how much "publicity" they'll get fot the league final? But of cousre it will be al football, football,football....! Please, please can the media push the hurling a bit...and PLEASE...WHO IS BEST TO CONTACT TO ENSURE A COUNTY ETC GAME IS GOING AHEAD? I was travelling to Kanturk one evening to watch the minors, as stated in the kerryman, only to hear late in the day the match was in Iniscarra. Also , the Kerryman listed the minor hurlers game last sat week was being played in carlow before the seniors game...when i rang carlow to confirm this they were perplexed and said the game was being played in LAOIS...good job I checked,,,would this happen with the football? Keep going lads...you're mighty stuff!