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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 19:54:08 GMT
I think we'll just squeak past them by 2 points. They're very hard to break down and I think we'll be wary of them scoring goals on fast breaks. David Clifford is due a big game. Galway played wide to the wings with no one inside the D in the first half above in Sligo and had a lot of joy from doing so. The template for beating a massed defence is to use the full width of the pitch and then have runners finding pockets of space more centrally.
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Post by homerj on Jul 3, 2024 19:57:27 GMT
Galway played wide to the wings with no one inside the D in the first half above in Sligo and had a lot of joy from doing so. The template for beating a massed defence is to use the full width of the pitch and then have runners finding pockets of space more centrally. If you have smart players, yes! Have seen plenty of players stay wide and add absolutely nothing to the attack and eventually defence Just let's them there. Then 50 yards out of position for a counter.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 20:14:39 GMT
The template for beating a massed defence is to use the full width of the pitch and then have runners finding pockets of space more centrally. If you have smart players, yes! Have seen plenty of players stay wide and add absolutely nothing to the attack and eventually defence Just let's them there. Then 50 yards out of position for a counter. Begley made some good moves into the channel the last day. The purpose of wide player is to receive the ball and draw and man and then release the ball again.
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Post by brucewayne on Jul 3, 2024 20:27:44 GMT
Galway played wide to the wings with no one inside the D in the first half above in Sligo and had a lot of joy from doing so. The template for beating a massed defence is to use the full width of the pitch and then have runners finding pockets of space more centrally. Yea, but in Sligo both Galway and Armagh had a different way of doing it. Armagh had 3 players inside the D while moving the ball around the defensive shape. The Galway method was interesting in that they flanked the defense and kept space inside the D free for opportunities to move in.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 3, 2024 20:29:33 GMT
The template for beating a massed defence is to use the full width of the pitch and then have runners finding pockets of space more centrally. If you have smart players, yes! Have seen plenty of players stay wide and add absolutely nothing to the attack and eventually defence Just let's them there. Then 50 yards out of position for a counter. It was very notable in the Monaghan, Meath,Louth game the warm had drills for playing mass defence teams. They obviously saw what was happening to David and Seanie and had to work away of getting scores from other players. When you look at the dinosaur tactics of Harte and Devlin and then you see that Kerry have clearly worked on their shortcomings last year it's very encouraging.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 20:41:20 GMT
The template for beating a massed defence is to use the full width of the pitch and then have runners finding pockets of space more centrally. Yea, but in Sligo both Galway and Armagh had a different way of doing it. Armagh had 3 players inside the D while moving the ball around the defensive shape. The Galway method was interesting in that they flanked the defense and kept space inside the D free for opportunities to move in. I guess if you keep men in the D, it might open up a pocket in the channels. Every team really play very similar styles. Donegal took the Tyrone template to an extreme, we all criticised it and now we all play it. I still think we don't use the offensive mark enough. Geaney, DC and SOS are all good over their head. They can't all be double marked. There's no risk of quick transition either if you're kicking into full forwardline.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 3, 2024 20:43:45 GMT
Yea, but in Sligo both Galway and Armagh had a different way of doing it. Armagh had 3 players inside the D while moving the ball around the defensive shape. The Galway method was interesting in that they flanked the defense and kept space inside the D free for opportunities to move in. I guess if you keep men in the D, it might open up a pocket in the channels. Every team rally play very similar styles. I still think we don't use the offensive mark enough. Geaney, DC and SOS are all good over their head. They can't all be double marked. There's no risk of quick transition either if you're kicking into full forwardline. I think the risk is too high if its crowded in there. It's not just losing the ball but the lift it gives the opposition.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 20:49:32 GMT
I guess if you keep men in the D, it might open up a pocket in the channels. Every team rally play very similar styles. I still think we don't use the offensive mark enough. Geaney, DC and SOS are all good over their head. They can't all be double marked. There's no risk of quick transition either if you're kicking into full forwardline. I think the risk is too high if its crowded in there. It's not just losing the ball but the lift it gives the opposition. Some advanced marks should be low risk for example if a forward is running towards the sideline from a central position. I agree though it has to done right. I think under Peter Keane we overdid it in one of the Dublin games. JOC doesn't seem a huge fan of it anyway as it doesn't seem to be encouraged.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 3, 2024 20:56:54 GMT
I think the risk is too high if its crowded in there. It's not just losing the ball but the lift it gives the opposition. Some advanced marks should be low risk for example if a forward is running towards the sideline from a central position. I agree though it has to done right. I think under Peter Keane we overdid it in one of the Dublin games. JOC doesn't seem a huge fan of it anyway as it doesn't seem to be encouraged. The 2019 replay in the first half and it gave Dublin huge oxygen. Jesus we just lumped ball in.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 21:00:59 GMT
Some advanced marks should be low risk for example if a forward is running towards the sideline from a central position. I agree though it has to done right. I think under Peter Keane we overdid it in one of the Dublin games. JOC doesn't seem a huge fan of it anyway as it doesn't seem to be encouraged. The 2019 replay in the first half and it gave Dublin huge oxygen. Jesus we just lumped ball in. Clifford's a beast on high ball but if he's double marked by experienced defenders and the ball isn't perfect, you're just energising and lifting the opposition.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 21:02:09 GMT
I wonder if Armagh will try to target some of our shorter defenders like Murphy and Sullivan.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 3, 2024 21:58:19 GMT
In Jack We Trust
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 3, 2024 23:16:31 GMT
Armagh are a very good team with some top class players. Oisin Conaty has impressed me this year.
I don't think they play to their potential and can be quite negative in some games. If they come out and play on the front foot they will be right up there. If they play within themselves we should beat them.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 3, 2024 23:21:30 GMT
What players are you expecting to make an impact Ard Mhacha? Ach well, I couldn’t be giving too much away now Different players have stood up in different games. Niall Grimley has been very good since coming back in. Oisin Conaty has a great turn of speed and can run at defences, and has kicked some great points lately. Turbitt can be really good if given the right supply of ball. Not sure about injury to Burns, but he’s usually on the bench anyway these days. Our subs have been fairly effective, coming on with fresh legs and contributing. Campbell always worth a point or two. Nugent too. Right, that’s all you’re getting! Nah look, the place is just buzzing at the minute. It’s easy to get carried away. It’s fair to say we’ve blown hot and cold in this championship, so I just hope we can fulfil our potential on the day, and hopefully it will be enough to get over the line. It would be very disappointing if we didn’t go at it, play on the front foot and give it everything, because we are capable of playing some good football. These days don’t come around too often for us, so I just hope we can take advantage of this opportunity while it’s here.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 3, 2024 23:58:37 GMT
What players are you expecting to make an impact Ard Mhacha? Ach well, I couldn’t be giving too much away now Different players have stood up in different games. Niall Grimley has been very good since coming back in. Oisin Conaty has a great turn of speed and can run at defences, and has kicked some great points lately. Turbitt can be really good if given the right supply of ball. Not sure about injury to Burns, but he’s usually on the bench anyway these days. Our subs have been fairly effective, coming on with fresh legs and contributing. Campbell always worth a point or two. Nugent too. Right, that’s all you’re getting! Nah look, the place is just buzzing at the minute. It’s easy to get carried away. It’s fair to say we’ve blown hot and cold in this championship, so I just hope we can fulfil our potential on the day, and hopefully it will be enough to get over the line. It would be very disappointing if we didn’t go at it, play on the front foot and give it everything, because we are capable of playing some good football. These days don’t come around too often for us, so I just hope we can take advantage of this opportunity while it’s here. Armagh haven't been in a semi final since 2005 or a final since 2003. So there's more than a generation of Armagh supporters who haven't had a big day out in Croke Park. I'm obviously shouting for Kerry but it's probably better for the broader game if Armagh reach the final. I saw lots of people online before the 1/4s saying that they hope neither Kerry or Dublin reach the final. An Armagh v Galway final might be what the public want. An all Ulster final doesn't whet the appetite as much. I think only a small margin will seperate Kerry and Armagh. I hope afterwards people are talking about the great football played and not other matters.
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 4, 2024 8:50:57 GMT
I wonder if Armagh will try to target some of our shorter defenders like Murphy and Sullivan. They have nt been exposed yet.Tom did a great job on Lachlan Murray and on McGuigan when he was switched on him.Paul has been excellent all year. What was the year Tom was our main marker of the oppositions top forward and conceded very few scores. People forget what a good defender he is as his points get most highlighting. If he had a good final in 22 he was in the shortlist for player of the year. He didn't even get an all star because of the damage Shane Walsh caused! It would be great to have Graham as an option to come off the bench too.
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Hicser
Senior Member
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Post by Hicser on Jul 4, 2024 11:33:14 GMT
From a football sense a Kerry or Galway AI win is essential.
The genius that is McGuinness is the reason we are seeing diabolical games in a half filled Croke Park.
He has actually caused the GAA to lose so much money from lack of attendances.
I find it very interesting no former Ulster players are involved in the new rules experiments.
A few days of reflection after the Derry match most Kerry fans accept now we had no choice but to play the way we did. The fact that the most traditional footballing team took this decision is an indictment of the malaise that McGuinness has brought to football.
I’ll be supporting Galway 200% and hope they give Donegal a good trouncing,
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 4, 2024 12:14:20 GMT
Armagh haven't been in a semi final since 2005 or a final since 2003. So there's more than a generation of Armagh supporters who haven't had a big day out in Croke Park. I'm obviously shouting for Kerry but it's probably better for the broader game if Armagh reach the final. I saw lots of people online before the 1/4s saying that they hope neither Kerry or Dublin reach the final. An Armagh v Galway final might be what the public want. An all Ulster final doesn't whet the appetite as much. I think only a small margin will seperate Kerry and Armagh. I hope afterwards people are talking about the great football played and not other matters. Thats only natural that people dont want Kerry or Dublin.Most ordinary gaa fans want Galway or Armagh to win and Donegal as a 3rd choice.If Kerry were nt in it Id be the same and so would most Kerry folk. I’m sure even Kerry (and others) folk were happy Dublin were put out. I certainly was. It did open the championship up somewhat. And, no offence, but I was also hoping Derry would beat Kerry the next day, because that would really open it up, and give the rest (well, us) a real sense of “jaysus, we could really win this!” Had Kerry been beaten, that would leave four teams on an equal footing, all capable of beating each other. Of the three left, Kerry have the advantage as they have been there, and done it. That’s a huge advantage.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 4, 2024 13:10:53 GMT
Thats only natural that people dont want Kerry or Dublin.Most ordinary gaa fans want Galway or Armagh to win and Donegal as a 3rd choice.If Kerry were nt in it Id be the same and so would most Kerry folk. I’m sure even Kerry (and others) folk were happy Dublin were put out. I certainly was. It did open the championship up somewhat. And, no offence, but I was also hoping Derry would beat Kerry the next day, because that would really open it up, and give the rest (well, us) a real sense of “jaysus, we could really win this!” Had Kerry been beaten, that would leave four teams on an equal footing, all capable of beating each other. Of the three left, Kerry have the advantage as they have been there, and done it. That’s a huge advantage. Yeah Dublin being knocked out boosted everyone I think. I still think every team left can win it. Kerry are slight favourites on paper but they were favourites in '21 against Tyrone and in '20 against Cork so you never know. I think Kerry will play cautious as they know how dangerous Armagh are on the break and a goal will probably be the difference maker in the game as I think it'll be a low scoring game. Clifford's due a big game so hopefully this is it.
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 4, 2024 15:10:32 GMT
From a football sense a Kerry or Galway AI win is essential. The genius that is McGuinness is the reason we are seeing diabolical games in a half filled Croke Park. He has actually caused the GAA to lose so much money from lack of attendances. I find it very interesting no former Ulster players are involved in the new rules experiments.A few days of reflection after the Derry match most Kerry fans accept now we had no choice but to play the way we did. The fact that the most traditional footballing team took this decision is an indictment of the malaise that McGuinness has brought to football. I’ll be supporting Galway 200% and hope they give Donegal a good trouncing, Is Michael Murphy (Donegal genius) not part of the review process? Also Malachy O Rourke of Fermanagh and Antrim's Alec Mc Quillan were listed as being part of the process. Perhaps you mean nobody from Tryone/Derry/Armagh axis
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 4, 2024 15:20:30 GMT
Yeah Dublin being knocked out boosted everyone I think. I still think every team left can win it. Kerry are slight favourites on paper but they were favourites in '21 against Tyrone and in '20 against Cork so you never know. I think Kerry will play cautious as they know how dangerous Armagh are on the break and a goal will probably be the difference maker in the game as I think it'll be a low scoring game. Clifford's due a big game so hopefully this is it. Clifford is due a big game but unless we change tact he wont have a big game.The defense in particular will have to look up and watch when he or indeed Geaney or Seanie get free.Its like they ve been told "dont kick it long".When attendimg the games this year in particular I have seen our inside forwards loose on numerous pccasions screaming for ball but have nt been noticed.If our backs started looking up more David would be away more influential.No one has ever won poty 3 years in a row and would nt it be marvellous to see David get it.However we have to get to a final at least for David to get and and he needs two big performances. He would need two very big performances to win POTY and obviously we'd have to win the AI. I think JOC and Paddy Tally have come up with a system to deliver us AIs. This means being very careful in possession. I think they felt we left a couple behind us like '19 and '21. We gifted that first goal to Tyrone. They just walked through us. Last year we gifted a goal to Dublin. That has to stop. With our panel so strong and at their peak now and with Dublin weak, we should be aiming for a few in a row. There's obviously a few strong teams but on paper we should be stronger. Donegal are a coming force and Derry have been very strong underage so they'll be strong for years also. I think Cork are a coming team also.
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Post by homerj on Jul 4, 2024 16:04:59 GMT
interesting to see that McGuinness is being blamed for the current trends in GAA (ie soccer aproach - all behind ball and counter attack).
for me, it was Jim Gavin,in response to their 2014 defeat and it was DUblin that perfected this style as moving a unit over the year. other, less skilled sides, just used it to park the bus then or adapted it. even the short kick outs started in Dublin,in my opinion!
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 4, 2024 16:34:07 GMT
He would need two very big performances to win POTY and obviously we'd have to win the AI. I think JOC and Paddy Tally have come up with a system to deliver us AIs. This means being very careful in possession. I think they felt we left a couple behind us like '19 and '21. We gifted that first goal to Tyrone. They just walked through us. Last year we gifted a goal to Dublin. That has to stop. With our panel so strong and at their peak now and with Dublin weak, we should be aiming for a few in a row. There's obviously a few strong teams but on paper we should be stronger. Donegal are a coming force and Derry have been very strong underage so they'll be strong for years also. I think Cork are a coming team also. He would but he has a bit of credit in the bank with a very good league and solid in the championship without being spectacular.I hope your right but every management team feels they have a system now to win the All Ireland.I was more hopeful in 2019 but felt Dubs were better but when we had 15 v 14 in drawn game we should have won.I felt 2020 and 21 we would win Sam but did nt happen.Again I think being a little too conservative cost us in last years final.Anyway we live in hope. . We had Dublin on the ropes in '19. David Moran ran into traffic and Dublin scored on the counter. Last year was just a bad game for us. Clifford lost the head a little also I think. Even for Dublin's goal, the keeper had the shot covered but Paul Murphy deflected it in. I think it was just destiny that Dublin would win and have a swansong. We have a very strong panel with in my opinion Kerry's GOAT so I don't mind conservative tactics if it gets us over the line. Clifford should really end his career with at least 4 AI medals in his pocket. He only has 1 in 7 seasons so far.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,735
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Post by fitz on Jul 4, 2024 17:19:18 GMT
Ah boll*x to this system talk, watching it is plenty enough. Changing tack - Jim McGuinness needs an aul haircut, going round like a polar bear. I would take Peadar Mogan (quality) and Ryan McHugh if offered
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 4, 2024 18:26:11 GMT
Ah boll*x to this system talk, watching it is plenty enough. Changing tack - Jim McGuinness needs an aul haircut, going round like a polar bear. I would take Peadar Mogan (quality) and Ryan McHugh if offered I'm more disappointed Jim didn't return in Jesus mode again with the beard and long hair for "the Second Coming" The only thing I'll say on Donegal (we are playing Armagh and we should respect them enough to be focusing the talk on Armagh) is that Jim McGuinness took the job knowing who his main threats are. He would have had a plan for Dublin & Kerry (if not a few more) if he came up against them. In a weird logic I'd rather they have came up against a bigger team than Louth when the safety net disappeared. Looking back at clips of Armagh, people need to park that Roscommon game to the side. The heartbreaking ends that panel faced weighed them down. Getting back into the final four in almost 2 decades and the Dubs missing will put a pep in their step.
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Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 450
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Post by Hicser on Jul 4, 2024 23:11:12 GMT
From a football sense a Kerry or Galway AI win is essential. The genius that is McGuinness is the reason we are seeing diabolical games in a half filled Croke Park. He has actually caused the GAA to lose so much money from lack of attendances. I find it very interesting no former Ulster players are involved in the new rules experiments.A few days of reflection after the Derry match most Kerry fans accept now we had no choice but to play the way we did. The fact that the most traditional footballing team took this decision is an indictment of the malaise that McGuinness has brought to football. I’ll be supporting Galway 200% and hope they give Donegal a good trouncing, Is Michael Murphy (Donegal genius) not part of the review process? Also Malachy O Rourke of Fermanagh and Antrim's Alec Mc Quillan were listed as being part of the process. Perhaps you mean nobody from Tryone/Derry/Armagh axis Apologies, lazy comment, I should have researched a bit better,
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 5, 2024 4:17:40 GMT
Ah boll*x to this system talk, watching it is plenty enough. Changing tack - Jim McGuinness needs an aul haircut, going round like a polar bear. I would take Peadar Mogan (quality) and Ryan McHugh if offered The players or their haircuts?
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,735
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Post by fitz on Jul 5, 2024 9:42:23 GMT
Ah boll*x to this system talk, watching it is plenty enough. Changing tack - Jim McGuinness needs an aul haircut, going round like a polar bear. I would take Peadar Mogan (quality) and Ryan McHugh if offered The players or their haircuts? Oh the players for sure, coincidentally both barnets are acceptable
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,233
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 5, 2024 11:21:55 GMT
Looking at this game, possible starting XV and game plan, its hard to look beyond a similar scenario emerging to the Derry game. In saying that, I have a feeling this game could be more like the Derry game of 2023 than last weekend. Armagh cannot sit back if they expect to win here, if the Derry game proved anything, is that at this level and stage of the competition, you have to be braver and take risks. McGeeney will simply have to go for it and not be as conservative. There is a balance that can be got at this level when playing defensively, Donegal of the four teams have probably mastered it best, Kerry is best placed to adapt accordingly and play whatever way teams want to deploy their players.
As for the team and structure, I am a huge fan of Graham and simply if fit has to be accommodated, I know he has played well, but for me playing two corner man of the stature of Murphy and Tom Sull will be exploited, Graham for me is the only possible change if even that. Regardless the back six have been tighter and more cohesive so there is a strong case of leaving well alone. Kerry will still have two players in one of Graham/Murphy and Breen to come in, ideally held in reserve to counteract Campbell and Hall when introduced.
A lot has been said of our “weak” midfield pairing, I don’t get it, and long may they stay under the radar, again both scored from play, more then broke even, even if Roger scored more from play, in all they have had the upper hand on most, gone about their business quietly and efficiently and without fuss. It looks too that Jack has reverted to Spillane as the third option instead of Barry Dan, again being cold, I agree.
Up front, the reliance on DC and Sean has abated, and now we instead question the form of both, the runs are being made to take the man out of position, create the space where the likes of Sullivan, O’Beagleoich and our midfielders are getting in. Initially, and I admit I was wrong here, I questioned the placing of Tony on the wing, it brings a new dynamic to the line, he has evolved, is now tracking, grafting and turning over, he is being targeted by opposition, and as a result should free up Paudie more, he also adds a scoring dimension to the line. I disagree with some posters that Geaney was poor on Sunday, he made telling runs, just the ball didn’t go in, but it was very evident that two of those runs in particular in the first half resulted in points from the space created… it’s about the end result, not the kicker…
Jack too has used his bench wisely, I expected Stephen on Sunday, however, being released recently to Kenmare indicates we have slipped down the pecking order, The three forwards last day, Bourke, Spillane and Geaney made telling contribution. Boure in particular will be required to go toe to toe with Óg Burns when introduced to curb his size and direct running… a lot will be made in the media of Donaghy, but this is immaterial…. Staying focused and true to the game plan is more important. Semi-finals are for winning, nothing else… but it will be an intriguing weekend of ball…
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Post by kerrymenontour on Jul 5, 2024 18:58:47 GMT
For those looking to travel by train, Irish Rail have added extra services and the 9:05 & 11:05 Tralee to Mallow now runs to Heuston, with their being a 20:45 and 21:35 trains from Heuston to Tralee on the day of the game 💚💛👍
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