|
Post by whiteheat on Aug 10, 2023 19:24:40 GMT
There has been no mention at all around how defensive Dublin were in the first half. Were they that defensive in the second half. If so it was a bad day for football. Dublin were very defensive with a full blanket at times. We were as defensive bar David. The big difference was Dublin attacked quicker while we had a slower build up and never even tried marks True when Kerry counterattacked they followed the same tactic as Derry and waited for the dubs to retreat and the patiently try and find the gaps. Obviously it didn't work too well.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Aug 16, 2023 9:50:30 GMT
Cahir Ăł Kane wrote an interesting Article today saying Shane Ryan was the better than Cluxton over the championship and had stats to prove it. I'm not sure how to post it but you can google it. It shows Ryan made more saves was better under high ball and had a better kickout percentage. Cluxton conceded less obviously 1 goal to 3 and scored more 2 pts to 1 but Shane was better in every other aspect including 9 saves to 5 and a goal saving interception. Cluxton might get the All star but Shane has a great shout too. www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/08/14/news/cahair_o_kane_stephen_cluxton_was_brilliant_but_shane_ryan_was_better-3530196/
|
|
pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
|
Post by pillar on Aug 17, 2023 9:55:08 GMT
I'm starting to see a trend in the recent years. If you look at any All Ireland we've lost, and I'll include the Ladies final Sunday, its been lost to a team with an edge, a cynicism. Tyrone and Dublin being our main problem. McMenamin, the McMahon have thwarted us, Philly McMahon, Johnny Cooper and James McCarthy this year have blunted our strength by fair or foul. Maybe it's time we started to incorporate it into our make up. Kerry vs Mayo in 2014 in Limerick was the greatest game I've ever been at, nd that game was won by Mikey Geaney. He was an absolute pest and he set the tone for the day. Its gone to the stage where football is no longer enough , you need a hard edge. Glance over at hurlings current kingpins and you'll see plenty brawn!!
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Aug 17, 2023 11:50:56 GMT
I'm starting to see a trend in the recent years. If you look at any All Ireland we've lost, and I'll include the Ladies final Sunday, its been lost to a team with an edge, a cynicism. Tyrone and Dublin being our main problem. McMenamin, the McMahon have thwarted us, Philly McMahon, Johnny Cooper and James McCarthy this year have blunted our strength by fair or foul. Maybe it's time we started to incorporate it into our make up. Kerry vs Mayo in 2014 in Limerick was the greatest game I've ever been at, nd that game was won by Mikey Geaney. He was an absolute pest and he set the tone for the day. Its gone to the stage where football is no longer enough , you need a hard edge. Glance over at hurlings current kingpins and you'll see plenty brawn!! I agree with this. We can be unbelievable with the ball but other teams we've met as mentioned above are far more aggressive without the ball than us, and higher up the field than us.
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Aug 17, 2023 12:29:25 GMT
dont think we lost the game because we werent smart enough, we lost the game due to a silly handpass that lead to a goal and we kicked away 6 scoreable chances in last 10 mins.
very small margins, the game was level in 74th minute...another day, its blown up and its a draw, we sometimes go on as if we lost by 10 points. last year it was us that won it in 75th mind, this year it was them. theres nothing between the 2 teams.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Aug 17, 2023 14:15:30 GMT
dont think we lost the game because we werent smart enough, we lost the game due to a silly handpass that lead to a goal and we kicked away 6 scoreable chances in last 10 mins. very small margins, the game was level in 74th minute...another day, its blown up and its a draw, we sometimes go on as if we lost by 10 points. last year it was us that won it in 75th mind, this year it was them. theres nothing between the 2 teams. Good post often there is too much put on a loss ie this guy isn't good enough etc. Lads only there for gear etc etc. Fine margins indeed we had moran last year (made press easier) they had mannion and mcaffrey this year. Next year who knows I'd be surprised if it isn't one of us or dublin that win it next year tbh
|
|
pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
|
Post by pillar on Aug 17, 2023 15:29:18 GMT
Go back to last years All Ireland semi, Shane Ryan's coolness under pressure with kickouts was crucial, he gets clocked early this year.Why didn't we target Cluxton with a few high balls and get Diarmuid or Jack in under it.make Cluxton feel all his 41 years and he knocked back on his arse .you need a bit of devil and I thought we brought none with us when we needed it..you're playing Dublin at home and when the fire comes you got to knock them back too..im not saying a mass brawl but don't be afraid to indulge in a bit of dark arts
|
|
|
Post by greengold35 on Aug 17, 2023 16:11:55 GMT
Go back to last years All Ireland semi, Shane Ryan's coolness under pressure with kickouts was crucial, he gets clocked early this year.Why didn't we target Cluxton with a few high balls and get Diarmuid or Jack in under it.make Cluxton feel all his 41 years and he knocked back on his arse .you need a bit of devil and I thought we brought none with us when we needed it..you're playing Dublin at home and when the fire comes you got to knock them back too..im not saying a mass brawl but don't be afraid to indulge in a bit of dark arts Fully agree - think the next ball in after Ryan was fouled should have been hung up in the air & unsettle Cluxton.
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Aug 17, 2023 21:42:13 GMT
regarding not alot of ball played into David...i thought David looked very leggy in the final and wasnt looking for it, seemed to be carrying something. not making excuses for him, just remember looking several times and he wasnt moving well at all.
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Aug 18, 2023 8:15:17 GMT
Dublin strengthened their back room, strengthened their squad since 2021. Kerry, on the other hand did neither and indeed the squad was weakened by injury & retirement. In a finely balanced contest these things come home to roost.
|
|
|
Post by thehermit on Aug 19, 2023 10:09:23 GMT
Have to agree with a lot of the recent posts, our current side does seem to lack an edge - no Galvin, Tomas, Star or Darragh like figures who would throw themselves into the fray and fight fire with fire.
The team of the 2000s had to learn the hard way after 01,02,03 that if the opposition wanted to play football we'd play football but if they wanted to negate our natural footballing ability by going down a darker road we could respond in kind.
I hope our current side is learning the same lessons after this year and 2021 and a few of them need to step up and evolve as enforcers. There also needs to be a collective attitude that any targeting of one is an attack on all. A bit too often this year I saw an individual Kerry player being blackguarded and no one coming in to his aid and putting the aggressor on his arse.
Having said all that its worth reiterating points made above, the final was ultimately a coin toss and if we had won we wouldn't be saying stuff like this!
Also I believe its a simple fact now that playing Dublin in a knock out championship game in Croker means officials will always give them the benefit of the doubt, we've 12 years of evidence for this. There utter cynicism is rarely if ever confronted by a referee. Remember in 2017? when they systematically pulled to the ground every Mayo player during the final couple of kickouts and nothing done about it.
Its all very well saying we should have tested the likes of Cluxton's mettle but who are we kidding if a Kerry player was doing what was done to Ryan or what McCarthy was at he would have seen the line.
We'll get our revenge again like we did last year. In the long run Kerry brain will always find a way over Dublin brawn.
|
|
|
Post by thekingdom on Aug 19, 2023 12:50:52 GMT
regarding not alot of ball played into David...i thought David looked very leggy in the final and wasnt looking for it, seemed to be carrying something. not making excuses for him, just remember looking several times and he wasnt moving well at all. Surely if he was injured he wouldn't have lined out for Fossa the week after v Gaeltacht. He has had 2 very long years. In '22 he had the sigerson and the club campaign this year coupled with a very unwell mother who passed away without much time to properly grieve.
|
|
|
Post by orangerhyme on Aug 19, 2023 13:00:07 GMT
regarding not alot of ball played into David...i thought David looked very leggy in the final and wasnt looking for it, seemed to be carrying something. not making excuses for him, just remember looking several times and he wasnt moving well at all. Surely if he was injured he wouldn't have lined out for Fossa the week after v Gaeltacht. He has had 2 very long years. In '22 he had the sigerson and the club campaign this year coupled with a very unwell mother who passed away without much time to properly grieve. In the space of a year he played in two AI finals with Kerry, junior county final with Fossa, county championship final with East Kerry, AI junior club final with Fossa, Sigerson final with UL. He also had all the celebrations with Kerry after last year's AI win. He lost his Grandmother as well as his mother. He was doing a Hdip in UL along with teacher training and all the traveling that entails. He also has a small child and a partner. That's a lot of stresses and responsibilities for a young man who only turned 24 in January. He was still brilliant through all of it. We're lucky to have him. I hope he takes a deserved break. He won't have Sigerson or AI club with Fossa next year most likely. No studying or travelling. He's based in Killarney. No travelling the county celebrating AI either. So at least it's fewer stresses next year.
|
|
well
On Probation
Posts: 3
|
Post by well on Aug 19, 2023 20:39:10 GMT
I think, after looking at the ladies final, it will be very hard to beat a dublin team in croke park. The arm holding was so blatant and disruptive in the first half, and it was too late in the second half to come back. In the mens final david ended up with a yellow card, same as james mccarthy, seriously.
|
|
well
On Probation
Posts: 3
|
Post by well on Aug 19, 2023 20:57:04 GMT
Having said that, its very possible we win next year. We were the better team this yr but it never added up, kerry skill always comes through..
|
|
|
Post by thehermit on Aug 27, 2023 19:29:21 GMT
Nice interview with David in Weekend Irish Times by Malachy Clerkin:
First day back. David Clifford sits behind a desk in the Sem in Killarney, ready for whatever the year has to throw at him. Or ready to get ready, maybe. This will be his second year as a teacher, his first taking a Leaving Cert PE class and heâs spent the morning getting back in the groove. Nothing says autumn like having to dig through the laptop for lesson plans.
Ultimately, the summer was one heâll find it hard to forget, much as he might wish to. It wasnât just that it ended with Kerry watching Dublin climb the steps of the Hogan Stand â Clifford has been an intercounty footballer for six seasons now and all but one of them have ended without Kerry winning Sam. It hurts but sport has its way with all of us sometimes.
The final is a month in the rearview at this stage and he already has two rounds of the Kerry club championship played with Fossa. He got away for a bit with the family too â his son ĂigĂ turns two next Wednesday and they found a place somewhere down between Alicante and Benidorm where they didnât see an Irish person for a week. A toddler in the family tends to set his own agenda, regardless of what you kicked or didnât kick in Croke Park.
âItâs hard to maybe get your head around it and make sense of it,â Clifford says now of the final. âIt was very disappointing for us on a team level but I suppose on a personal level as well. In football and in sport youâre going to have off days but itâs disappointing when the off days are on the biggest day.
âBut look, I suppose youâre just trying to take the learnings from it. And trying to ⊠not move on in some sense because it will probably always stick with us. But to try to put your focus back into the club and focus back into different things.
âUltimately weâre so results-focused and it was just the fact we didnât get over the line and that I had chances to help us get over the line. Thatâs where the disappointment comes from. Youâre trying to enjoy the process throughout the year but at the end of the day, youâre very focused on the result and getting the top prize. So then ultimately when we donât get there, itâs just disappointment.â
When all comes to all though, 2023 isnât really going to be about his battle with Mick Fitzsimons or his nine points against Derry or his catch-pass magic trick against Tyrone. It will always simply be the year he lost his mother. Cancer took her on the weekend of the Munster final and no image lingers from the season like the one of her youngest son lifting the cup in Limerick that Sunday. The Munster Council broke with tradition and spared him the captainâs speech. In every sense, he didnât have to say a thing.
Ellen Clifford had just turned 60 a couple of weeks before her death. She was the third of 11 OâShea children and grew up in Ballymacelligott, about five miles out the N21 from Tralee. She worked in the Department of Justice in Killarney for the best part of three decades, during which she met Dermot Clifford from Derrynane. They married and had three children â Paudie, David and Shelly.
She died in early May and because of who her sons are and what theyâve achieved, the whole country heard about it more or less instantaneously. The fact that Kerry had a Munster final the next day was there in the mix. But though Ellen Cliffordâs death went far and wide, you needed to cup an ear and listen pretty hard to hear much about her life.
âShe was football mad,â David says. âBut she was also very comfortable watching any sport and very comfortable bringing us to whatever sport it was we were interested in. She had a sister in London and we would have often gone to London to go to Premier League games. Weâd be going watching teams that we would have had no connection to at all. We just went for the experiences.
âHer family are GAA people. A couple of her sisters played at a very high level and her brothers would have played at a high level. Mom herself played more soccer. So she was very open to all sports. And thatâs where probably the rest of us get our love for sports from.
âBut in terms of personality, she would have been very quiet. Very selfless. She would have always hated for anything to be done for her. She wouldnât ever want us to celebrate her birthdays or anything like that. That would have been putting people out. That was her.
âShe was always great fun. She was always mad for listening to the stories of what weâve been up to, maybe on a night out or something that happened at training. Different things like that. I suppose one thing that I always noticed about her was whenever you were coming to tell her a story and someone had done this or one of us had done that, she would have never commented about it either way. Sheâd sit there and let the story be told. I think sheâd find out more that way.â
Like a lot of cancer deaths, there was nothing sudden about the end. They had plenty of time to get their heads around the fact that it was going to happen. Still, you never get to pick and choose this stuff. She died on Saturday, Kerry were playing Clare in the Munster final on Sunday. As a family, they didnât agonise for too long over what to do.
âIt was, of course, incredibly difficult,â Clifford says. âIn terms of the game itself, myself and Paudie and my father just had a quick chat really. And the main reason that we went and played was we knew Mom would have hated to think that she was the reason that we missed the game.
âEven when she was going through her illness and she was in hospital for long periods, weâd be popping in after training or before training or whatever but she was always nearly pushing us out the door because she never wanted to be a hindrance. That was just her way.
âIt could never be about her, it had to always be about us. Even when she was at her sickest, sheâd still always be talking about how we were fixed for the weekend or was our gear washed for the weekend. She was so selfless like that. So I suppose a lot of the reason we decided to play was just thinking about that and knowing that she would have absolutely hated if weâd missed a game because of her.â
Anyone who was in the Gaelic Grounds that day could feel the emotion hanging over the place. The curtain-raiser was an intermediate camogie match between Kerry and Clare and the Cliffords stood watching a few minutes of it outside their dressing-room, down in the corner of the ground by the Ennis Road. Paudie kept his hood up, David had a peaked cap on. Their team-mates â probably without even realising it â rode shotgun on either side of them, protectively slagging away until it was time to get down to business.
When they got out on to the pitch, David scored 2-6, Paudie ran in a goal and Clare were swept away. At the final whistle, Kerry selector and noted giant Mike Quirke hastened out onto the pitch and brought David in behind the cordon of stewards that had formed at the foot of the presentation steps. He never minds signing jerseys for the armies of kids that come streaming towards him at full-time but Quirke made up his mind for him on this occasion. Small kindnesses mean everything.
âOur team as a whole and our management team â personally, I would have always felt we had a great connection. We have a great bond. But since that, thinking of where the lads have put their arms around us and kept doing it as the year has gone on, it just gives you so much more respect for the lads. And thatâs saying something because of the respect we have for each other anyway.â
Everything moves on. The three months since then have been a whirl of championship and holidays and ĂigĂ and back to school and still, somewhere in the cracks and crevices, heâs finding his way. Losing a parent is brutal for anyone but at least most of us get to do it in private. Most of us donât have to go through it when weâre only 24. We definitely donât have to go and try to win an All-Ireland while weâre trying to figure ourselves out.
âLook, itâs difficult,â he says. âThe timing of it, the fact that we were in right in the middle of the season, busy with Kerry, the training and matches at times would have been a nice distraction. You got to go and put your focus into the training, take your mind off things for a couple of hours. So that was a welcome distraction.
âBut really youâre just trying to look out for each other as a family. We never wanted to go and do the whole doom and gloom thing where youâre afraid to smile, youâre afraid to go anywhere. We just kind of decided that again, thatâs not what Mom would have wanted. So we wanted to carry on and put the best foot forward as much as we can.
âAnd of course, there are times where youâre laying in bed and youâre kind of saying, âJesus how is this real?â or whatever. But youâre just trying to get through those times as best as possible.â
Football is there, always. The end of the intercounty season changes his rhythms from flash-frying to slow-cooking but heâll still fuss over every plate he sends out. He likes that he can be a bit more present at home with ĂigĂ, not always obsessing over the next session or drilling into the next piece of analysis.
His body hasnât any particular blinking lights to keep an eye on either â those ludicrous hamstrings that allow that Cliffordian kneecap-to-forehead follow-through donât even take all that much maintenance, apparently. The joys of being 24.
âNo, thereâs one hamstring activation exercise or mobility exercise that I do before every session and match. But thatâs about the size of it. I wouldnât be the best man for activation and all that sort of thing. I should probably do more.â
The season didnât really end for him or for Paudie last year. They went from Kerry to Fossa to East Kerry and back to Fossa, all the way to January. Then they were back in with Kerry in a matter of weeks, all the way to July. And now itâs Fossa again, two wins from two in the intermediate club championship under their belt already. They play Glenflesk this weekend to decide who tops the group. In a couple of weeks, itâll be East Kerry in the county championship. On and on it goes.
The Fossa adventure has been a marvel. For half a century, the club was a dot on the landscape of Kerry football. They waited half a century for someone to play senior championship for Kerry and then the Clifford brothers came along and made it two in two years.
They carried their bat through the Kerry junior championship last year, all the way to Croke Park and an All-Ireland title in January. They had their first ever home game in the intermediate championship last week against St Maryâs and ran up a 1-17 to 2-10 scoreline. The best of times.
âItâs a step up,â Clifford says. âYou find in junior football that a team might have one or two forwards and one or two defenders. Now weâre finding that every team has four good forwards and four good defenders and a good midfielder. That hits you straight away.
âBut the lads have been brilliant â they got promoted there from Division Three to Division Two in the county league and neither myself nor Paudie played a single game. Thatâs nearly a bigger achievement in itself. Weâre kind of rolling with it. We donât know where itâs going to end up â thatâs what the greatest buzz about it is.â
Wherever it does, heâll be at the centre of it. For Fossa, it must feel at times like theyâve struck oil in a bog. Imagine toiling away for 50 years with nobody paying the slightest bit of attention. Then, as if a stork dropped him on the porch one night, David Clifford arrives. Not just to do his thing and weave his spell when they get him the ball, but to push everyone, everywhere, on and off the pitch.
Talk to anyone who has worked with Clifford at any level and they all puff their cheeks at the easy question. How good is he? Heâs as good as you think he is. Ask why and they light up. Itâs the relentless work, itâs the ferocious chase. Itâs all that unseen hunt for excellence. Thatâs what they talk about when they talk about David Clifford. So you ask him where he gets that drive.
âI think where a lot of it comes from is that I find it frustrating when I donât hit standards,â he says. âOr when we, as a team, donât hit standards. You know what I mean? I find it frustrating, I find that itâs in your head for a couple of days. But I suppose the flipside of that is the disappointment from that then is what leads you to go and do the extra kicking session or whatever. So I think thatâs a large part of it.
âAnd then itâs just the whole thing of chasing success. I enjoy the process of going and trying to chase the success but itâs the times you have after the success â the time maybe in the dressing room after a win, after a game when you feel like it has gone well for you and for the team. Itâs kind of chasing those situations too, probably where a lot of it comes from.
âBut thereâs a period after every disappointment where youâre feeling like ⊠itâs not that you resent the game but itâs more that you donât want to think about football for a few days. It never lasts very long and it nearly always comes around again then pretty quickly. And it drives you to go again, to go and find that improvement.â
The hunt never ends. For now, itâs time to start sorting out that lesson plan and drawing up a schedule for when the students of St Brendanâs mark the true end of summer and start arriving through the doors.
Youâd have to imagine few enough of Mr Cliffordâs PE class ever forget their gear.
|
|
|
Post by Ard Mhacha on Sept 17, 2023 12:49:23 GMT
The Kingdom will rise again and shake off the dust of this defeat. This is not a might or a maybe. It will happen! This is not to disregard the emotions Kerry fans felt after this yearâs defeat, as losing any big game is gut wrenching, but that is one positive you can take from it. You know your team will be back. Teams like ourselves, Kildare, Donegal, Roscommon, Offaly, Down etc, who have contested finals in the last 30-40 years, that chance of reaching an All Ireland might be a once in a generation (if youâre lucky) occurrence. Next year, it will be 22 years since we were there. Thatâs practically a generation. Iâd hate to think it might be as long again.
|
|
|
Post by himself on Sept 17, 2023 19:27:56 GMT
Well said
|
|
|
Post by thehermit on Sept 19, 2023 9:40:56 GMT
January's a long way off yet
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Sept 19, 2023 11:51:01 GMT
The Kingdom will rise again and shake off the dust of this defeat. This is not a might or a maybe. It will happen! This is not to disregard the emotions Kerry fans felt after this yearâs defeat, as losing any big game is gut wrenching, but that is one positive you can take from it. You know your team will be back. Teams like ourselves, Kildare, Donegal, Roscommon, Offaly, Down etc, who have contested finals in the last 30-40 years, that chance of reaching an All Ireland might be a once in a generation (if youâre lucky) occurrence. Next year, it will be 22 years since we were there. Thatâs practically a generation. Iâd hate to think it might be as long again. well said sir! the margains are unreal tight but we go on as if weve been hammered by 20 points every game. 2019 - lost a final after a replay. 2020 - lost by a point after ET on a horrible bad day for football. 2021 - lost by a point in all ireland semi final after extra time. 2022 - champions 2023 - lost AI final in the 4th minute of injury time. we are never far away and hopefully theres 2 or 3 more all irelands in this team yet.
|
|
horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by horsebox77 on Sept 19, 2023 13:24:09 GMT
ah even in the lean years of 1988-95, were never more that 7's to land the cup, regardless of league form or capabilities.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Sept 24, 2023 11:42:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Sept 24, 2023 19:26:53 GMT
Jesus, that's rough on the poor lad
|
|
|
Post by thehermit on Sept 25, 2023 16:23:44 GMT
|
|
|
Post by orangerhyme on Sept 27, 2023 16:07:35 GMT
Does anyone know how he handles the commute? It's a 5 hour drive each way. Does he do one session a week for example and delegates the other sessions? Or does he stay down for a night or two? Or does he attend every session and drive up and down each time? This seems unfeasible.
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Sept 28, 2023 9:04:49 GMT
youd imagine he lives half way or has some arrangement like that set up. rented house in athlone or something?
or probably lives in kerry tuesday-thursday during training season.
its much easier now with the shorter season too, only really needs to do it for 6 months essentially.
|
|