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Post by tralee58 on May 20, 2023 19:47:38 GMT
It seems goalscoring is an issue currently. David Clifford is top class no doubt but how would you compare to Colm Cooper whose goalscoring prowess sadly missing in current Kerry set up. I admire point scoring highly but always love a team that can score goals similar to Rugby and tries. If you were to compare the 2 players Cooper v Clifford who would you choose of they too different. Thanks 🙏
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Post by ciarraigodeo on May 20, 2023 20:09:48 GMT
This will shock no one, but today really hammered home that if Clifford gets injured, we are seriously going to be exposed. SO’S needs a big game, and soon. Tom O S has a sweet boot as we all know but as Ambrose/Tim said today, he has to remember he’s wearing number 4, first and foremost. A surprisingly weak performance in the first half especially. I think everything that can be said about MF has been said already. McStay a wily operator and had his ducks in a row, that’s for sure. Shane Ryan and Clifford the only reasons Mayo weren’t out the gap at HT. Bit worrying overall really but let’s see how the rest of the group stage plays out. There’s a lot of football to be played before knock-out.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on May 20, 2023 20:22:25 GMT
Very disappointed with the crowd on two key aspects. One, leaving early, likely the same heroes who are first in line for AI final tickets. Two, blowing horns trying to put off the freetaker.
Regarding the game today. The positives are Kerry have a very good chance to still go through, albeit the long way. If Cork upend Louth then Cork will have their ears up on a chance to panic their neighbours. We know we can't take another game for granted. I think we did today and got our just desserts. We cannot complain this year that we have no tough games. Praying now to get whoever is 3rd in the Galway group and the winners get the Leinster champions.
The negatives. There are only a handful of players who did well [Ryan and David in particular] but if our goalkeeper is one of the contenders for man of the match, then the team are doing something wrong, no offence to Shane Ryan. I think we need to drop one or two established players in the hope they jolt into form. The shooting options were horrendous and the players need to have a serious look at why they are taking low percentage shots and what they need to do to tackle that.
However, as three teams come out of the group it isn't as bad as the 2018 Super 8s.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 20, 2023 20:28:36 GMT
Anemic is the only way I can describe that performance today. Our midfield woes meant we couldn't really press the kickout as we couldn't win the ball when it was kicked out long. So we let mayo have the handy one and build from the back.
Interesting that Mayo opened us up all the time down the middle like the league game. Has Jack and Paddy Tally brought anything at all new to the table this year? Teams can deal with our defensive system now so we need to present them something new.
Sean O'Shea has been poor since the second half against Dublin last year. Apart from his wonder kick in the second half he was well marshaled and I thought poor enough in the final as well.
In the forwards at the moment we are we are carrying 3 players. Brian, Moynihan and SOS. Midfield is a complete wasteland and our defence looks v ropey to say the least. Our half back line were taken apart today leaving mayo have free runs in the FF line.
We have nothing on the the bench today. Who did we bring on that could change a game for us? Stephen O Brien has very little football played.
Ryan, Clifford and Geaney did well. Jack needs to sort out midfield and fast. It was clearly and issue in the league and nothing has been done to address it. He might have to think outside the box. The na Gael pair simply don't impose them selves on the game. What the answer is I don't know. The middle third really needs a shake up.
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Post by whiteheat on May 20, 2023 20:42:36 GMT
Today reminded me of the 2019 league final : all at sea. It seems to be in the Kerry DNA over the last 25 years or so - One shocking lacklustre performance followed up by great showings the rest of the year. Fingers crossed that today showed that management/s&c are trying to time our peak for later in the year. I truly do think this is the case.
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Post by john4 on May 20, 2023 20:50:25 GMT
Mayo are a serious team this year. They've their best 8,9,11, 12 and 14 they've ever had.
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Post by Kingdomson on May 20, 2023 20:54:39 GMT
This will shock no one, but today really hammered home that if Clifford gets injured, we are seriously going to be exposed. SO’S needs a big game, and soon. Tom O S has a sweet boot as we all know but as Ambrose/Tim said today, he has to remember he’s wearing number 4, first and foremost. A surprisingly weak performance in the first half especially. I think everything that can be said about MF has been said already. McStay a wily operator and had his ducks in a row, that’s for sure. Shane Ryan and Clifford the only reasons Mayo weren’t out the gap at HT. Bit worrying overall really but let’s see how the rest of the group stage plays out. There’s a lot of football to be played before knock-out. Well said. Tom is an excellent footballer but as a defender the first priority is marking your man. Up to last year Tom was our best man marker but has struggled a little in the marking department over the last 16 months. Maybe a switch to the half back line might suit. Sean Ó Shea s form is worrying too. His form has dipped a little but he will be fine I'm sure. Our big problem is midfield and half forward line.Thats where our supply comes from and lack of ball in those areas puts our defense under big pressure. Agree, just watched highlights back on Saturday Game and even early in the match it looked like Seány Shea was running in cement (way off the pace). We need Brian O'B back in our defence too.
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Post by ciarrai74 on May 20, 2023 20:58:44 GMT
Anemic is the only way I can describe that performance today. Our midfield woes meant we couldn't really press the kickout as we couldn't win the ball when it was kicked out long. So we let mayo have the handy one and build from the back. Interesting that Mayo opened us up all the time down the middle like the league game. Has Jack and Paddy Tally brought anything at all new to the table this year? Teams can deal with our defensive system now so we need to present them something new. Sean O'Shea has been poor since the second half against Dublin last year. Apart from his wonder kick in the second half he was well marshaled and I thought poor enough in the final as well. In the forwards at the moment we are we are carrying 3 players. Brian, Moynihan and SOS. Midfield is a complete wasteland and our defence looks v ropey to say the least. Our half back line were taken apart today leaving mayo have free runs in the FF line. We have nothing on the the bench today. Who did we bring on that could change a game for us? Stephen O Brien has very little football played. Ryan, Clifford and Geaney did well. Jack needs to sort out midfield and fast. It was clearly and issue in the league and nothing has been done to address it. He might have to think outside the box. The na Gael pair simply don't impose them selves on the game. What the answer is I don't know. The middle third really needs a shake up.
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Post by ciarrai74 on May 20, 2023 20:59:50 GMT
Could we possibly move Seanie to FF
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Post by hurlingman on May 20, 2023 21:07:21 GMT
Up there with the Super 8s game against Galway in 2018 as one of the poorest Kerry displays in recent times.
Match ups in defence all wrong.
Midfield still a problem. As others have said. At this stage Jack Barry isn't going to improve any more and I just see what he can offer. DOC the same. He just doesn't seem to want to be involved when the pressure is on. Barry Dan should have been on at have time. Spillane again did well when he came on. Next day out the two of them should be starting.
In the forwards. I would worry about Paudie Clifford. Teams seem to have figured him out and can easily takr him out of games. SOS bar frees imo doesn't offer enough and it's been the case for a while now. Inside I think it's time to accept Tony Brosnan can't deliver when the pressure is on.
As for the subs took far too long to make changes and bar Spillane imo none of them worked out too well.
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Post by Kingdomson on May 20, 2023 21:12:49 GMT
Mayo are a serious team this year. They've their best 8,9,11, 12 and 14 they've ever had. Ah now, I agree Mayo are a contender but let's not exaggerate. Mayo have a fine athletic 8 and 9 but it's not their best midfield ever and I'm watching them for decades (I can't speak for what they had before the late 70s' but I certainly remember Willie Joe, then Liam McHale and even Tom Parsons was no slouch in midfield and would easily start ahead of todays pairing. I know Mayo had some legends further back in time but I can't speak to them. There are far better midfield pairings around the place than Mayo but the real worry is Kerry are just so poor in this sector right now. I'm sure the Mayo midfield would like to play us every week at the moment but they were well horsed out of it against Roscommon and indeed against Galway in the league final recently won. This being said, Mayo have a fine panel of players overall with loads of athleticism and a serious top notch management team. McStay could prove to be the real game changer for Mayo.
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Post by Kingdomson on May 20, 2023 21:20:04 GMT
Up there with the Super 8s game against Galway in 2018 as one of the poorest Kerry displays in recent times. Match ups in defence all wrong. Midfield still a problem. As others have said. At this stage Jack Barry isn't going to improve any more and I just see what he can offer. DOC the same. He just doesn't seem to want to be involved when the pressure is on. Barry Dan should have been on at have time. Spillane again did well when he came on. Next day out the two of them should be starting. In the forwards. I would worry about Paudie Clifford. Teams seem to have figured him out and can easily takr him out of games. SOS bar frees imo doesn't offer enough and it's been the case for a while now. Inside I think it's time to accept Tony Brosnan can't deliver when the pressure is on. As for the subs took far too long to make changes and bar Spillane imo none of them worked out too well. After the Tyrone debacle in 2021 I didn't think we'd see Jack Barry back in midfield again but it speaks really to the paucity of options coming through in our midfield sector. Nobody at underage level is sticking there hand up as a midfield general in waiting at the moment either. Sliding doors and all that but if wishes could come through of course we'd all love Mark O'Connor back and could you imagine him paired with say a Gavin O'Brien (men who got away).
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Post by jrmanula on May 20, 2023 21:20:19 GMT
If I was a Kerry man I would not worry about O,Shea, form I temporary but class is permanent. A bigger worry for Kerry is teams taking Paudie Clifford out of the game,it is the best way to neutralise David.
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Post by orangerhyme on May 20, 2023 21:24:25 GMT
It seems goalscoring is an issue currently. David Clifford is top class no doubt but how would you compare to Colm Cooper whose goalscoring prowess sadly missing in current Kerry set up. I admire point scoring highly but always love a team that can score goals similar to Rugby and tries. If you were to compare the 2 players Cooper v Clifford who would you choose of they too different. Thanks 🙏 I would consider David Clifford already to be Kerry's greatest footballer. He's certainly better than Gooch and Maurice Fitz. I haven't seen enough of others like Jack O'Shea or Mick O'Connell to compare them. If he continues on current trajectory and wins a few more AIs, he'll be considered the greatest ever. Gooch was brilliant but could be anonymous for large spells of the game, but that might be because of his position. David C is ridiculously consistent and always involved and has more to his game. It's a huge shame Gooch got the injury when he did, because it would have been wonderful to see him at center forward for a few years.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,861
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Post by peanuts on May 20, 2023 21:42:13 GMT
It seems goalscoring is an issue currently. David Clifford is top class no doubt but how would you compare to Colm Cooper whose goalscoring prowess sadly missing in current Kerry set up. I admire point scoring highly but always love a team that can score goals similar to Rugby and tries. If you were to compare the 2 players Cooper v Clifford who would you choose of they too different. Thanks 🙏 In fairness the goal chances today were more half chances really and David was under pressure for all of them.
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Post by kerrylad38 on May 20, 2023 21:43:17 GMT
I feel Seán O Shea Has Gone Down The Line Of Too Much Gym Work Yes I Understand You Need Strength But His Burst Of Pace Seems To Be Gone. Lots of Gym Suits Some Players And Not Others. He Also Didn’t Seem To Be Up With The Fitness Rates Of Other Players And looked Stuck To The Ground. Hopefully Sean O Shea can Get Back To His 2019 Championship Form.
Great To See Paul Geaney Producing A Top Class Performance Kicking 3 Points From Play And Nearly Setting Up 2 Goals For Clifford .
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Post by gahman on May 20, 2023 21:46:01 GMT
Anyone at the game answer me , wereMayo wearing training bibs over their traditional jersey or is it some sort of unusual design? I couldn’t tell from the tv .
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Post by gahman on May 20, 2023 21:46:47 GMT
Anyone at the game answer me , were Mayo wearing training bibs over their traditional jersey or is it some sort of unusual design? I couldn’t tell from the tv .
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Post by whiteheat on May 20, 2023 21:49:47 GMT
I feel Seán O Shea Has Gone Down The Line Of Too Much Gym Work Yes I Understand You Need Strength But His Burst Of Pace Seems To Be Gone. Lots of Gym Suits Some Players And Not Others. He Also Didn’t Seem To Be Up With The Fitness Rates Of Other Players And looked Stuck To The Ground. Hopefully Sean O Shea can Get Back To His 2019 Championship Form. Great To See Paul Geaney Producing A Top Class Performance Kicking 3 Points From Play And Nearly Setting Up 2 Goals For Clifford . Can't agree more on seanie Shea. He ain't the same player he was in 2019
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Post by glengael on May 20, 2023 21:54:32 GMT
Mayo looked comfortable today. Any time Kerry brought it back to 2 or 3 points, Mayo went up & scored without difficulty. A depressing afternoon.
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Post by piskin on May 20, 2023 22:04:01 GMT
We did look sharp on the break in the 2nd half at times. Had we taken our points instead of blasting it at goal I thik we could have gotten a draw at least. Bad decisions again at crucial moments in games costing us bigtime. The line was bad today and did not make the required changes, while it's nice to see Tom o Sullivan kick points it's his defensive game over the last few years that has to be addressed. He was taken to the cleaners by Shane Walsh in last years Final. Dylan Casey on A o Shea was a disaster waiting to happen. The line had no answers today when everyone could see that midfield was where we were beat. Barry Dan needed championship game time but left on the bench, could have been brought in at full-forward at least. Sean o Shea overrated other than his free taking? He like P Clifford is taken out of games too easily. We gave away so much ball today that it was borderline pathetic at this level.
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Post by piskin on May 20, 2023 22:08:09 GMT
Mayo looked comfortable today. Any time Kerry brought it back to 2 or 3 points, Mayo went up & scored without difficulty. A depressing afternoon. Thats because we let them, our midfield was nowhere to be seen!! If Jack O Connor persists with this midfield pairing our goose is well cooked.
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Post by piskin on May 20, 2023 22:11:31 GMT
I feel Seán O Shea Has Gone Down The Line Of Too Much Gym Work Yes I Understand You Need Strength But His Burst Of Pace Seems To Be Gone. Lots of Gym Suits Some Players And Not Others. He Also Didn’t Seem To Be Up With The Fitness Rates Of Other Players And looked Stuck To The Ground. Hopefully Sean O Shea can Get Back To His 2019 Championship Form. Great To See Paul Geaney Producing A Top Class Performance Kicking 3 Points From Play And Nearly Setting Up 2 Goals For Clifford . Can't agree more on seanie Shea. He ain't the same player he was in 2019 Did everyone overrate him? His game has not improved and is opting to take frees out of his hands instead of kicking them off the ground which is his speciality
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Post by kerrylad38 on May 20, 2023 22:20:29 GMT
Can't agree more on seanie Shea. He ain't the same player he was in 2019 Did everyone overrate him? His game has not improved and is opting to take frees out of his hands instead of kicking them off the ground which is his speciality He stared well vs dublin in last years Semi Final scoring 1-01 disappeared for 50 mins kicked the winning free and everyone thought he had a great match when in reality he was poor for 50 mins. He Was Average In The Final and also was very poor in the semi final vs Tyrone in 21 and was bad vs cork in 20. So in reality his last top class performance was against dublin in the 2019 all-Ireland kicking 10 points giving an incredible performance. Sadly I think we’ve overrated him since
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Post by jrmanula on May 20, 2023 22:31:44 GMT
I think it has become "sexy" for backs to go forward and score. Their first job is to defend. I remember a number of years ago an all star given to a half forward and the the half back that marked him in the final.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on May 20, 2023 22:32:28 GMT
Totally agree on the comments re Seanie and gym work since 2019. I’ve been saying for a while that he isn’t offering enough. For Cork I’d move him to full forward, he doesn’t have the pace/mobility for the middle third.
Some people saying Paudie Clifford is very easily shut down. Don’t see where those comments are coming from, I thought he was our outstanding player today after David, Ryan and maybe Geaney.
I think it could be time to throw a wildcard into the equation at midfield, throw someone in who hasn’t seen any game time this year. I’m thinking Mark Ryan/Ronan Buckley/Cillian Burke.
Today also highlighted that Jack and co need to stop selecting so many small players who are wanting for physicality. It’s so obvious and has been highlighted many times before but for some reason all this evidence has been ignored.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on May 20, 2023 22:36:43 GMT
Mayo looked comfortable today. Any time Kerry brought it back to 2 or 3 points, Mayo went up & scored without difficulty. A depressing afternoon. Thats because we let them, our midfield was nowhere to be seen!! If Jack O Connor persists with this midfield pairing our goose is well cooked. [br There the two best midfielders in the County.. the problem isn't them, it's the lack of alternatives..we need an All Star midfielder!!
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Post by edgeofthesquare on May 20, 2023 22:38:48 GMT
Thats because we let them, our midfield was nowhere to be seen!! If Jack O Connor persists with this midfield pairing our goose is well cooked. [br There the two best midfielders in the County.. the problem isn't them, it's the lack of alternatives..we need an All Star midfielder!! You can not tell me for one second that Jack Barry is one of the top 2 midfielders in the county. His club performances are as average as they come.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on May 20, 2023 22:40:39 GMT
[br There the two best midfielders in the County.. the problem isn't them, it's the lack of alternatives..we need an All Star midfielder!! You can not tell me for one second that Jack Barry is one of the top 2 midfielders in the county. His club performances are as average as they come. Outside of David Moran, you'll struggle to find alternatives
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Post by piskin on May 20, 2023 22:59:06 GMT
Fact is Jack Barry & D o Connor do not boss the midfield in Championship games. I had hopes for D o Connor but it looks like he is not up to scratch. These 2 have years of experience in the championship yet they have failed to establish themselves.
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