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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 15:16:38 GMT
Kilmacud know that if the fame was replayed it could be totally different. Conor Glass will be in a better state and the game would be played outside of croke park I'd say taking away another Crokes advantage. Also I don't think Paul Mannion fit enough to play at mó so advantage would swing towards Glen. Then if course the gaa could fix the replay for a few months time which maybe KC would nt mínd. I'm normally a believer in winning it on the field but I feel a little different this time. Many I feel are against Crokes cos of the Shane Walsh transfer and Glem might not have the same support against another club. Many Dubs I work and socialise with did nt want KC to win last Sunday anyway. I fully agree that the Shane Walsh transfer has ratcheted up the dislike of KC, however the rule was broken and appeal lodged so the GAA will have to order a replay here. Sure otherwise we are setting a precedent that you can do this. I personally don’t think it was intentional cheating and that it was a complete heat of the moment mix up but sure what’s to stop teams intentionally doing it if it’s not punished? If Glen had brought on an extra man and he scored a goal in that play would we still argue that he had only been on for a short period so it doesn’t matter? |
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jan 27, 2023 15:19:03 GMT
All the GAA had to do was come out strong on Sunday night/Monday morning and say clearly and succinctly the rules of the game were broken and that they have no option but to replay the match to preserve the integrity of the game. They would have done their job regardless of Crokes's reaction.
As it is I can see why people would be sympathetic to Crokes (though I'm not myself obviously). They can point to how this has been allowed drag on and can also claim to be victims of GAA incompetence. Whatever happens this is now one of the more egregious of a sadly long and growing list of incidents where the Association's leadership look every bit the Amateurs in GAA. And while that was fine back in the day, in this era of multi-millions flowing through Croke Park its as unacceptable as it is inexcusable.
But from where we are now it looks like kilmaccud will refuse a replay so what happens then? The GAA will want a final The only logical decision then is play the replay between Glen and Kerins O Rahillys 😀 |
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thehermit
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 15:41:56 GMT
Your guess is as good as mine. Do you chalk it off?
Back in 1925 Kerry were robbed of an All Ireland title. The AI ended up being handed to Galway (who never even contested that years semi-final) because a host of objections and counter-objections saw Kerry and Cavan thrown out. Mayo thus were the only team qualified for the final and were about to be given the championship but then they contrived to lose the delayed Connacht final to Galway. Hence the Tribesmen first of 7 football titles.
To save face the GAA tired to arrange an alternative inter-county competition so they could get their 'proper' national final but Kerry told them where to go and never entered.
So the GAA might yet try and get another final Kerryboy but doubt it will be given much credence by anyone at this stage!
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 27, 2023 16:07:53 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official?
Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door.
I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all.
I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 27, 2023 16:16:21 GMT
There are 4 outcomes
1. A fine for Kilmacud or no penalty so the same thing - the ref will get a portion of the blame
2. A replay
3. A replay and Glen decline
4 A replay and kilmacud don’t play
No 3 would be the Gaa preferred outcome with no 4 the worst outcome. In this scenario, I don’t agree that the gaa will want a final regardless, they will want to move on as quickly as possible
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Post by john4 on Jan 27, 2023 16:32:08 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official? Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door. I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all. I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance. I suppose when you stand back and look at it, it was really the match officials who got things wrong here. Glen did nothing wrong, KC benefited from this 'error' but I believe didn't intentionally want to do anything wrong here. BUT, every county has a problem with recruiting and retaining referees and the Gaa are obviously not going to come out here and highlight the shortcomings of the club final match day officials. Glen made their objection on the basis of the fact that they were victims of an injustice. KC's counter objection and the veracity of it, is in my opinion is their way of prompting the Gaa to examine the match officials role in this. We're just off the back of one of the worst years I can remember of the level of abuse inflicted on Gaa referees Malacy O'Rourke is the team manager, his opinion on objecting or otherwise is irrelevant, The club executive decide what the club do. Not the senior team manager. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 16:32:50 GMT
There are 4 outcomes 1. A fine for Kilmacud or no penalty so the same thing - the ref will get a portion of the blame 2. A replay 3. A replay and Glen decline 4 A replay and kilmacud don’t play No 3 would be the Gaa preferred outcome with no 4 the worst outcome. In this scenario, I don’t agree that the gaa will want a final regardless, they will want to move on as quickly as possible 3 & 4 are terrible outcomes as the record books will state walkover on both. A fine is genuinely a terrible outcome as, stated already, it sets a precedent that you can buy your way out of issues and makes financial might a factor in the disciplinary process |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 16:36:37 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official? Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door. I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all. I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance. I suppose when you stand back and look at it, it was really the match officials who got things wrong here. Glen did nothing wrong, KC benefited from this 'error' but I believe didn't intentionally want to do anything wrong here. BUT, every county has a problem with recruiting and retaining referees and the Gaa are obviously not going to come out here and highlight the shortcomings of the club final match day officials. Glen made their objection on the basis of the fact that they were victims of an injustice. KC's counter objection and the veracity of it, is in my opinion is their way of prompting the Gaa to examine the match officials role in this. We're just off the back of one of the worst years I can remember of the level of abuse inflicted on Gaa referees Malacy O'Rourke is the team manager, his opinion on objecting or otherwise is irrelevant, The club executive decide what the club do. Not the senior team manager. I did find the malacy o Rourke part to be bizarre- his is just one opinion in that of a whole club of executive, players, etc. Every Glen player will want a replay, these chances don’t come along very often. We had a very strong Crokes team here for a decade and they won 1 title, the Glen players know that history is just a catalogue of what if stories. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 16:38:28 GMT
But from where we are now it looks like kilmaccud will refuse a replay so what happens then? The GAA will want a final The only logical decision then is play the replay between Glen and Kerins O Rahillys 😀 Glen have embarrassed the association by appealing, the title should just be given to the naries |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 27, 2023 17:03:59 GMT
There are 4 outcomes 1. A fine for Kilmacud or no penalty so the same thing - the ref will get a portion of the blame 2. A replay 3. A replay and Glen decline 4 A replay and kilmacud don’t play No 3 would be the Gaa preferred outcome with no 4 the worst outcome. In this scenario, I don’t agree that the gaa will want a final regardless, they will want to move on as quickly as possible 3 & 4 are terrible outcomes as the record books will state walkover on both. A fine is genuinely a terrible outcome as, stated already, it sets a precedent that you can buy your way out of issues and makes financial might a factor in the disciplinary process I think if the GAA and or Kilmacud had contacted Glen on Sunday evening or Monday morning and said there was a massive f*ck up and they can have a replay if they want, that Glen would have declined the offer. It took until Tuesday night for Glen to protest. Instead the onus was put on Glen to make a decision to protest which clearly irked them and they almost had to come out fighting. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Jan 27, 2023 17:29:33 GMT
Just throwing it out there. Who is at fault KC or the fourth Official? Are KC 100% culpable, I don't know it's hard to make a case that all the blame falls on the club side's door. I think there are no winners here, both clubs come out looking poor but the has higher brass appear to come across as the worst of all. I think the stance portrayed by Malachy O'Rourke post match was the only honourable thing I heard in the aftermath. But even he looks to have been overruled in this instance. I agree no winners here but it makes for great debate😀. Its hard to know who s at fault but for certain the officials and KC erred big time. Are KC being unsporting? I'm not sure. I know from speaking to one KC member he feels its them versus everyone so maybe it's stubbornness too. Meath in 2010.?Many Meath supporters will tell you they would have granted Louth a replay but for the way their supporters acted on the aftermath where Sean Boylan and other Meath folk were allegedly assaulted in the stand. Maybe that's just idle talk. In 99 v Tipp we did nt give Tipp any leeway when they were fuming after we were awarded a goal that never was. It went through the side betting. Were we unsporting? Laois gave Carlow a replay over a winning point that never was around 95/96.Thats why I was glad we agreed to the Tyrone request in 21 eventhough it came back to bite us. I guess what I'm trying to say it's very easy criticise from the outside but when you ré involved it's different. The club is a very hard competition to win. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Jan 27, 2023 17:38:28 GMT
I'm sure many of you remember the strangest finish ever to a game in a league quarter or semi final (87 I think) between Cork and Dublin. The game finished in a draw in croke park. Cork wanted a replay but extra time was ordered. Cork refused and headed home on the train. Extra time started without them and Dublin s Barney Rock (Dean'sfather) ended up kicking the ball into an empty net. As there was no keeper to kick out the ball the game was deemed to be over. Dublin went on to win the league beating Kerry in final.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 27, 2023 19:43:54 GMT
Ya I remember that, I don’t know would it happen in this day and age.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jan 27, 2023 20:04:13 GMT
Ya I remember that, I don’t know would it happen in this day and age. I doubt it. |
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Post by onlykerry on Jan 31, 2023 12:30:22 GMT
And so it goes - a replay has been determined as the solution by the CCCC - with two more stages open in the appeals process ever before the courts of the land can be dragged into it. Might have an outcome by Easter.
One could argue that Crokes are getting off lightly with a replay as the focus has been to blame the officials for the mess up. A stronger response would be that the teams are ultimately responsible to ensure they comply with the rules and therefore Crokes should forfeit the game. Afterall they were were calculating in how to use the rules in the semi final with 30 fouls against their opponents, mostly in the middle third and designed to prevent quick attacks. Gaming the rules and officials has become a strategy in itself with the increasing level of game strategizing and analysis. Bending the rules to breaking point is common place and not just in GAA - it has become part of game craft and is even admired and praised at times. This leads to ever more complicated and detailed rules - the spirit of rules matters little as its the legal eagles interpretation of words and syntax than ends up being all that matters.
Thankfully we don't have a Kerry involvement in this mess.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 31, 2023 13:17:05 GMT
If Crokes don’t show up for the final then not only should there be a sanction on the club but also on their county board.
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thehermit
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Post by thehermit on Jan 31, 2023 13:38:39 GMT
What a mess, that could have been far less embarrassing for the Association if they simply declared a replay necessary in the 24 hours after the game.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Jan 31, 2023 17:22:14 GMT
Word is Rahillys back in training last night, hoping for a final call up😂😜
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 31, 2023 17:57:17 GMT
Word is Rahillys back in training last night, hoping for a final call up😂😜 So you’re saying that Larry McCarthy got my letters? |
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Post by greengold35 on Jan 31, 2023 19:16:06 GMT
What a mess, that could have been far less embarrassing for the Association if they simply declared a replay necessary in the 24 hours after the game. I agree but there is a process to be followed in any appeal - referee’s report would have to be submitted in the first instance & any issues arising from that would be communicated to the teams; apparently ref failed to mention 16 players on the pitch which then put the onus back on the Glen - I find it amazing that ref omitted to mention this. Glen really were put in a no win situation- there was a clear breach of rule & if GAA failed to act on it, it could lead to many objections on various issues down the road. The question of who is responsible for the monitoring of subs entering/exiting pitch seems to be Kilmacud’s argument, arguing that officials have that responsibility so no blame can be attached to them. This saga will run & run I think - I think replay is correct decision but cannot see one happening!! |
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Post by greengold35 on Jan 31, 2023 19:17:51 GMT
If Crokes don’t show up for the final then not only should there be a sanction on the club but also on their county board. Think if this happens that they be fined & barred from senior competition outside of Dublin for a period. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 31, 2023 19:50:45 GMT
I think both clubs lose in my opinion and they are the victim of bad officiating by the fourth official
I don’t know will Crokes play the replay, I don’t know if I was over them would I be happy to agree to the fixture.
I always had the opinion that games should be settled on the field not the boardroom,
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jan 31, 2023 20:33:03 GMT
If Crokes don’t show up for the final then not only should there be a sanction on the club but also on their county board. You're saying kick Dublin out of the 2023 Championship? Yeah, I think that's only fair. It would be a great fillip for this year's Leinster championship. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 31, 2023 20:58:07 GMT
If Crokes don’t show up for the final then not only should there be a sanction on the club but also on their county board. You're saying kick Dublin out of the 2023 Championship? Yeah, I think that's only fair. It would be a great fillip for this year's Leinster championship. Min of 5 year ban and upto a max of 15. Will be reduced if they agree to spend their money building their own ground, like every other county have to do |
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Post by taibhse on Feb 1, 2023 17:23:07 GMT
I think both clubs lose in my opinion and they are the victim of bad officiating by the fourth official I don’t know will Crokes play the replay, I don’t know if I was over them would I be happy to agree to the fixture. I always had the opinion that games should be settled on the field not the boardroom, I think that there is no fourth official in Club Games. The referee is handed a slip by the substitute and he (the referee) is responsible for the exchange of players. The 4th official is part of inter-county games only. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Feb 1, 2023 18:25:15 GMT
I think both clubs lose in my opinion and they are the victim of bad officiating by the fourth official I don’t know will Crokes play the replay, I don’t know if I was over them would I be happy to agree to the fixture. I always had the opinion that games should be settled on the field not the boardroom, I think that there is no fourth official in Club Games. The referee is handed a slip by the substitute and he (the referee) is responsible for the exchange of players. The 4th official is part of inter-county games only. You could be right but I’m sure I heard one of the talk shows or podcasts mentioning the fourth official. I imagine being Croke Park and an all Ireland final that adequate cover would be available, I suppose if only three officials were there what would happen if one got injured? Normally a linesman takes over but I’m sure there is a fourth for high profile games. |
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thehermit
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Post by thehermit on Feb 1, 2023 20:27:57 GMT
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Post by ciarraimick on Feb 3, 2023 20:51:05 GMT
The latest is Glen are after withdrawing their appeal. KC are champions.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Feb 3, 2023 21:02:03 GMT
Hats off to the Glen, honourable decision by the club, was going to be never ending, only a distraction, lessons for the GAA, in fairness to KC, all they wanted was to give a few fellas a run in the dying minutes of the game, run down the clock in the process, was never intended to have 16 on the field, don’t think it effected the outcome either, a fine should be imposed for sure.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Feb 3, 2023 21:24:04 GMT
This felt like the outcome for a while. Glen wanted to make a point but I don’t think they ever really wanted a replay.
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