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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 24, 2023 20:45:28 GMT
Can you truly see a replay happening or a forfeiture by Kilmnacud? The only other option is a fine and that's how they'll go. If a fine is issued its a laugh. A fine for the biggest club in the country. Sure if Kerry are defending a small lead next year bring on 2 subs and tell the other players stay on. Defend with 17 and win and take a fine afterwards. A fine can't be the result or it makes a mockery of the whole thing. It will set a terrible precedent. If it’s a fine then we are fecked as money had become more important than the rule book/integrity of the game. Essentially sets a precedent that you can cheat and buy your way out of it. Which is yet another advantage weighted towards bigger/wealthier teams and counties |
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Post by onlykerry on Jan 24, 2023 22:54:51 GMT
Its a strange one where there will be no winners = GAA made a mess of the substitutions and it was only a matter of time before such an incident happened due to the ill discipline around substitutions. Its particularly unforgivable as this fixture had a fourth official. Players should not enter the field until the person being subbed has exited - if this is implemented then it may be the only good to come of the debacle.
A ref can get calls wrong during the game, can say a goal ball did not fully cross the line, can fail to deal with persistent fouling properly, can play any amount of additional time and so on without any retrospective repercussions but this one case has an open ended rule where the game can be awarded to the offended team, a replay ordered or a fine.
A replay is something neither side really wants I suspect and certainly the GAA don't want it. The out if it can be negotiated and orchestrated is for Kilmacrud and the GAA to offer a replay which acknowledges the error and Glen to say we are happy with the acknowledgment of the error but decline the offer of the replay.
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Post by john4 on Jan 25, 2023 0:11:45 GMT
Very poor leadership from Croke Park in all of this. They are coming out of this in a poor light.
The Gaa hasn't had a strong, decisive President who's fully in tune with what's best for the association since Sean Kelly.
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Post by ciarraimick on Jan 25, 2023 8:41:00 GMT
The Glen made their objection so a replay is on the cards.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Jan 25, 2023 9:54:04 GMT
Its a strange one where there will be no winners = GAA made a mess of the substitutions and it was only a matter of time before such an incident happened due to the ill discipline around substitutions. Its particularly unforgivable as this fixture had a fourth official. Players should not enter the field until the person being subbed has exited - if this is implemented then it may be the only good to come of the debacle. A ref can get calls wrong during the game, can say a goal ball did not fully cross the line, can fail to deal with persistent fouling properly, can play any amount of additional time and so on without any retrospective repercussions but this one case has an open ended rule where the game can be awarded to the offended team, a replay ordered or a fine. A replay is something neither side really wants I suspect and certainly the GAA don't want it. The out if it can be negotiated and orchestrated is for Kilmacrud and the GAA to offer a replay which acknowledges the error and Glen to say we are happy with the acknowledgment of the error but decline the offer of the replay. Instead of putting their head in the sand and abdicating responsibility, what you said in the last paragraph is what the Gaa should have tried orchestrate once the issue was known. This was clearly a tough call for Glen and they were put in a terrible position. |
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jan 25, 2023 11:22:43 GMT
In my opinion the real mess is that there is still nothing done about the assault on Paudie. Compared to that the entire Glen saga is child's play. Not going after Mr. Coyle for assault sets an even bigger and more damaging precedent.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jan 25, 2023 12:13:39 GMT
I wonder are Dr. Crokes regretting not appealing after the 07 club final replay when John Mcantee stayed on the pitch for 11 minutes despite receiving 2 yellow cards.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jan 25, 2023 14:34:06 GMT
The Dubs and Kilmacud lads are going ballistic, thinking it's all due to anti-Dub sentiment. Great to see 😀.
If they're good enough to beat them once they're good enough to beat them twice.
With all the millions Kilmacud have, I'm sure they've a legal team working on a counter-appeal that makes OJ Simpson's legal team seem like Lionel Hutz.
If Kilmacud think having an extra player or two is no big deal, this year my club is entering a 9-a-side team for the Kilmacud 7s.
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Post by glengael on Jan 25, 2023 16:02:20 GMT
Is there a time limit on when the appropriate GAA Committee can take action against any player arising from the Fossa game? Would they have done it by now if they were going to - as presumably they have the referee's report by now?
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jan 25, 2023 16:49:10 GMT
Is there a time limit on when the appropriate GAA Committee can take action against any player arising from the Fossa game? Would they have done it by now if they were going to - as presumably they have the referee's report by now? I'm afraid it shows they will just hand out the standard penalties for each card without investigating the two incidents in the game that had nothing to do with football and were deliberate attempts to seriously harm another human being. I have since checked with an international lawyer and even though Mr. Coyle is a British citizen, I don't know whether he holds an Irish passport as well, he can charged with assault in the Republic of Ireland as his crime was committed here in the Republic. Since it is such a clear cut case it can be handled very swiftly and Mr Coyle could be in jail by the end of next month. |
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Post by rovingfullforward on Jan 25, 2023 16:58:44 GMT
Is there a time limit on when the appropriate GAA Committee can take action against any player arising from the Fossa game? Would they have done it by now if they were going to - as presumably they have the referee's report by now? I'm afraid it shows they will just hand out the standard penalties for each card without investigating the two incidents in the game that had nothing to do with football and were deliberate attempts to seriously harm another human being. I have since checked with an international lawyer and even though Mr. Coyle is a British citizen, I don't know whether he holds an Irish passport as well, he can charged with assault in the Republic of Ireland as his crime was committed here in the Republic. Since it is such a clear cut case it can be handled very swiftly and Mr Coyle could be in jail by the end of next month. We should get Interpol involved too and get him extradited in chains. The Special Criminal Court is nearly finished the Hutch trial so they can deal with it immediately....... |
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jan 25, 2023 17:04:25 GMT
I'm afraid it shows they will just hand out the standard penalties for each card without investigating the two incidents in the game that had nothing to do with football and were deliberate attempts to seriously harm another human being. I have since checked with an international lawyer and even though Mr. Coyle is a British citizen, I don't know whether he holds an Irish passport as well, he can charged with assault in the Republic of Ireland as his crime was committed here in the Republic. Since it is such a clear cut case it can be handled very swiftly and Mr Coyle could be in jail by the end of next month. We should get Interpol involved too and get him extradited in chains. The Special Criminal Court is nearly finished the Hutch trial so they can deal with it immediately....... Not exactly, but I do feel strongly they need to deal with this obvious assault. It could very easily have been a murder. What would be your opinion if a player had indeed been killed? There is not a single sport in the world that allows this, and if the GAA don't act now, it will happen again. Do we want players killed or mamed? |
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jan 25, 2023 18:37:09 GMT
I wonder are Dr. Crokes regretting not appealing after the 07 club final replay when John Mcantee stayed on the pitch for 11 minutes despite receiving 2 yellow cards. Did he get a red after the second yellow? |
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jan 25, 2023 18:41:50 GMT
Very poor leadership from Croke Park in all of this. They are coming out of this in a poor light. The Gaa hasn't had a strong, decisive President who's fully in tune with what's best for the association since Sean Kelly. It doesn’t look good for the GAA . It makes the association look like a half-arsed run outfit. I remember when Laois used more than the allowed subs against us back in 2016, and as far as I recall, the rules stated Laois should have been thrown out, or lost home advantage for the rematch. Neither happened. |
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Post by john4 on Jan 25, 2023 18:54:23 GMT
Very poor leadership from Croke Park in all of this. They are coming out of this in a poor light. The Gaa hasn't had a strong, decisive President who's fully in tune with what's best for the association since Sean Kelly. It doesn’t look good for the GAA . It makes the association look like a half-arsed run outfit. I remember when Laois used more than the allowed subs against us back in 2016, and as far as I recall, the rules stated Laois should have been thrown out, or lost home advantage for the rematch. Neither happened. There was a time when half-arsed was okay, back in the not so distant past when everyone involved in the association was "yerra" about the whole thing. But we're in an era where counties are spending literally Millions preparing inter-county players and top clubs are putting huge resources in preparing players also. There was a real feel good factor about the Gaa and in particular the guys at the top of the association around the time Croke Park was made available to Rugby and soccer. It was a coming of age time and there was a sense that we were part of an organisation that had its business in order and in good hands, but we haven't moved on in terms of developing a professional approach from the top down. It's still half-arsed at the top when it's now the clubs who have adopted a professional approach. Leadership badly badly invisible. |
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Post by glengael on Jan 26, 2023 11:43:27 GMT
I wonder are Dr. Crokes regretting not appealing after the 07 club final replay when John Mcantee stayed on the pitch for 11 minutes despite receiving 2 yellow cards. Did he get a red after the second yellow? I think the ref didn't seem to be aware that he had booked him already so didn't show him the red card or something like that. Ancient history now for all concerned. |
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jan 26, 2023 11:59:09 GMT
Did he get a red after the second yellow? I think the ref didn't seem to be aware that he had booked him already so didn't show him the red card or something like that. Ancient history now for all concerned. That's my recollection as well. Gave him a second yellow but no red. |
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Post by boherbee on Jan 26, 2023 18:44:42 GMT
We should get Interpol involved too and get him extradited in chains. The Special Criminal Court is nearly finished the Hutch trial so they can deal with it immediately....... Not exactly, but I do feel strongly they need to deal with this obvious assault. It could very easily have been a murder. What would be your opinion if a player had indeed been killed? There is not a single sport in the world that allows this, and if the GAA don't act now, it will happen again. Do we want players killed or mamed? Your right of course, not a single sport in the world allows this type of behaviour, including the GAA. Murder though ? probably manslaughter at most. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 12:01:09 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 27, 2023 12:32:30 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw That is wishful stuff. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 12:52:41 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw That is wishful stuff. It is, 100%. However if kilmaccud do refuse to play, which are all the soundings now, then the options are: 1) give Glen the title, which no one wants 2) have no winner, which no one wants 3) find an opponent for Glen. If we option 3 was to prevail then it would probably be a short list of teams that could be put forward as a credible replacement, with the naries being top of the list as they were losing semi finalists. If kilmaccud refuse to play then what do guy think will happen and what would you like to happen? That’s a question to both yourself and others No final would be an absolute farce and the worst possible outcome so I’m really at a loss as to what will happen |
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thehermit
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 13:38:35 GMT
I'm probably showing my anti-Dublin bias here but is Kilmaccud's attitude, as evidenced by the reported content of their counter-objection, not pathetically unsporting. Firstly has any sense of mea culpa just totally disappeared from Gaelic Games? You can talk about the officials yes, but ultimately the Crokes sideline were the ones that created a scenario where 16 men were defending that last play.
Secondly, the purported statement that they will just give back the cup if a replay is ordered is such childish nonesense IMO and obviously designed to
a) undermine the eventual outcome (as well as the record books)
b) to humiliate Glen who are the innocent victims in all this.
Lastly, surely if you're good enough to beat a crowd once you're good enough to do it again!
Maybe the above is an overly simplistic and, as I said, biased view, but its my two cents anyway.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 27, 2023 14:25:09 GMT
Hermit, how have you survived inside the pale without being lynched or are you the sheep in wolf's clothing, run with the hares and hunt with hounds...
Still there is truth in your stance.. one rule for one and another for the powers that be...
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thehermit
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Tell an old man who saw them in days of old, Do they still walk proudly in their green and gold?
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 14:36:26 GMT
Hermit, how have you survived inside the pale without being lynched or are you the sheep in wolf's clothing, run with the hares and hunt with hounds... Still there is truth in your stance.. one rule for one and another for the powers that be... Do I strike you as a man that hides my Kerryness wherever I am 
They'd never lynch me, the nouvea riche have an innate desperation to be accepted by aristocracy 
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 14:50:26 GMT
I'm probably showing my anti-Dublin bias here but is Kilmaccud's attitude, as evidenced by the reported content of their counter-objection, not pathetically unsporting. Firstly has any sense of mea culpa just totally disappeared from Gaelic Games? You can talk about the officials yes, but ultimately the Crokes sideline were the ones that created a scenario where 16 men were defending that last play.
Secondly, the purported statement that they will just give back the cup if a replay is ordered is such childish nonesense IMO and obviously designed to a) undermine the eventual outcome (as well as the record books) b) to humiliate Glen who are the innocent victims in all this. Lastly, surely if you're good enough to beat a crowd once you're good enough to do it again! Maybe the above is an overly simplistic and, as I said, biased view, but its my two cents anyway.
There stance is 100% about humiliating both the Glen and embarrassing the GAA. That’s why I think the GAA will look to play some kind of final as the last thing they want is Glen to get the cup handed to them in a pub in Derry. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Jan 27, 2023 14:50:41 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw Yes that could happen but it's unlikely if the murmurs coming out have any truth in it. If the gaa a ward a replay the latest rumour is Glen might not accept eventhough they appealed. Also if KC refuse to play then I don't think the Gaa have the balls to kick them out so they probably hit them with a big fine. I have no solid info just rumours and murmurs. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Jan 27, 2023 14:59:08 GMT
Kilmacud know that if the fame was replayed it could be totally different. Conor Glass will be in a better state and the game would be played outside of croke park I'd say taking away another Crokes advantage. Also I don't think Paul Mannion fit enough to play at mó so advantage would swing towards Glen. Then if course the gaa could fix the replay for a few months time which maybe KC would nt mínd. I'm normally a believer in winning it on the field but I feel a little different this time. Many I feel are against Crokes cos of the Shane Walsh transfer and Glem might not have the same support against another club. Many Dubs I work and socialise with did nt want KC to win last Sunday anyway.
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thehermit
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Post by thehermit on Jan 27, 2023 15:08:08 GMT
I'm probably showing my anti-Dublin bias here but is Kilmaccud's attitude, as evidenced by the reported content of their counter-objection, not pathetically unsporting. Firstly has any sense of mea culpa just totally disappeared from Gaelic Games? You can talk about the officials yes, but ultimately the Crokes sideline were the ones that created a scenario where 16 men were defending that last play.
Secondly, the purported statement that they will just give back the cup if a replay is ordered is such childish nonesense IMO and obviously designed to a) undermine the eventual outcome (as well as the record books) b) to humiliate Glen who are the innocent victims in all this. Lastly, surely if you're good enough to beat a crowd once you're good enough to do it again! Maybe the above is an overly simplistic and, as I said, biased view, but its my two cents anyway.
There stance is 100% about humiliating both the Glen and embarrassing the GAA. That’s why I think the GAA will look to play some kind of final as the last thing they want is Glen to get the cup handed to them in a pub in Derry.
All the GAA had to do was come out strong on Sunday night/Monday morning and say clearly and succinctly the rules of the game were broken and that they have no option but to replay the match to preserve the integrity of the game. They would have done their job regardless of Crokes's reaction.
As it is I can see why people would be sympathetic to Crokes (though I'm not myself obviously). They can point to how this has been allowed drag on and can also claim to be victims of GAA incompetence.
Whatever happens this is now one of the more egregious of a sadly long and growing list of incidents where the Association's leadership look every bit the Amateurs in GAA.
And while that was fine back in the day, in this era of multi-millions flowing through Croke Park its as unacceptable as it is inexcusable.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 15:09:23 GMT
If Kilmaccud refuse to play a replay then could the naries step in and play Glen in a final? There’ll have to be a final and they would be the representatives from that side of the draw Yes that could happen but it's unlikely if the murmurs coming out have any truth in it. If the gaa a ward a replay the latest rumour is Glen might not accept eventhough they appealed. Also if KC refuse to play then I don't think the Gaa have the balls to kick them out so they probably hit them with a big fine. I have no solid info just rumours and murmurs. But sure Glen have appealed so I’m taking their status as fixed, I can’t see why they would appeal and then not take a replay. If the GAA award a replay and kilmaccud refuse to play, which I think is the most likely outcome, then what happens? The GAA will want/need a final to happen Imposing a fine essentially says that you can buy your way out of disciplinary issues which, along with being absolutely idiotic, makes no sense in an amateur game as it confers defacto strength upon wealthier clubs/counties |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 27, 2023 15:11:15 GMT
There stance is 100% about humiliating both the Glen and embarrassing the GAA. That’s why I think the GAA will look to play some kind of final as the last thing they want is Glen to get the cup handed to them in a pub in Derry. All the GAA had to do was come out strong on Sunday night/Monday morning and say clearly and succinctly the rules of the game were broken and that they have no option but to replay the match to preserve the integrity of the game. They would have done their job regardless of Crokes's reaction.
As it is I can see why people would be sympathetic to Crokes (though I'm not myself obviously). They can point to how this has been allowed drag on and can also claim to be victims of GAA incompetence. Whatever happens this is now one of the more egregious of a sadly long and growing list of incidents where the Association's leadership look every bit the Amateurs in GAA. And while that was fine back in the day, in this era of multi-millions flowing through Croke Park its as unacceptable as it is inexcusable.
But from where we are now it looks like kilmaccud will refuse a replay so what happens then? The GAA will want a final |
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