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Post by homerj on Nov 3, 2022 23:04:19 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games. If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star? Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year! Kildale and Meath got 5 between them, Brolly got one too for Derry. Wouldn't happen now, especially when neither of them 3 even won a provincial title! We won the league that year also and Fla and Darragh were both deserving of All Stars for sure. |
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 4, 2022 8:39:06 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games. If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star? Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year! Kildale and Meath got 5 between them, Brolly got one too for Derry. Wouldn't happen now, especially when neither of them 3 even won a provincial title! We won the league that year also and Fla and Darragh were both deserving of All Stars for sure. The prevailing view in the media before that final was that Pat Fallon would dominate midfield and provide the platform for a Mayo win. It was Darragh who provided the platform. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 4, 2022 10:26:27 GMT
Kildale and Meath got 5 between them, Brolly got one too for Derry. Wouldn't happen now, especially when neither of them 3 even won a provincial title! We won the league that year also and Fla and Darragh were both deserving of All Stars for sure. The prevailing view in the media before that final was that Pat Fallon would dominate midfield and provide the platform for a Mayo win. It was Darragh who provided the platform. Yeah Mayo had dominated Kerry midfield the year before in the semi although it was Liam McHale was the main man. Mayo made the error of playing him FF in 97 final and Barry Ó Shea had a great game on him. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 4, 2022 10:33:10 GMT
i watched that final a few weeks back, my word Mayo were absolutely awful.
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 4, 2022 14:55:31 GMT
i watched that final a few weeks back, my word Mayo were absolutely awful. Have nt watched it in years but as bad as Mayo were they had chance after chance in 2nd half but kept missing. We did our best to keep Mayo in it but they could nt help themselves. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 5, 2022 21:18:52 GMT
i watched that final a few weeks back, my word Mayo were absolutely awful. Have nt watched it in years but as bad as Mayo were they had chance after chance in 2nd half but kept missing. We did our best to keep Mayo in it but they could nt help themselves. The were shocking for entire game. Took until injury time for half to get their first point from play I think. One of the worst all ireland performances in recent history. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 1:04:40 GMT
Have nt watched it in years but as bad as Mayo were they had chance after chance in 2nd half but kept missing. We did our best to keep Mayo in it but they could nt help themselves. The were shocking for entire game. Took until injury time for half to get their first point from play I think. One of the worst all ireland performances in recent history. Actually I watched full match last night. Yes Mayo were poor but Kerry were nt much better. Actually Mayo missed simple chances and if they took them might have won the match. Ciarán McDonald (a player I really admire) missed some sitters. Mayo had loads of chances but fluffed them. Kerry were lucky enough when you watch the full game. I completely forgot that McHale came to midfield and actually Mayo midfield took over 2nd half. It was a poor final and we propbly lucky it was Mayo we played. Anyone else we would have been beaten. Maurice did some fab stuff but in reality the real man of natch was Liam Ó Flaherty. Watch game on YouTube and I doubt you ll disagree! |
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Post by homerj on Nov 6, 2022 1:17:43 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time.
Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo.
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 1:37:06 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time. Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo. Im afraid I can't agree with you Homer. Because I liked his style I remember alot of his games. Yes he was poor in 97 v Kerry but he was a kid then. In 04 he kicked a brilliant point v Kerry in all ireland final. In 05 quarter although beaten again he was fairly good v Kerry kicking 6 points. In 06 he was well beaten by Aidan Ó Mahoney alright hut produced some great scores in croke park v Dubs etc. For me he was class. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 6, 2022 7:10:06 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time. Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo. Lovely footballer to watch when he had space but I agree that he was overrated. In the GAA a big game against Dublin counts triple due to the attention on it and a big moment in a big game against Dublin had a further multiplier on it. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 6, 2022 8:45:41 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time. Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo. Im afraid I can't agree with you Homer. Because I liked his style I remember alot of his games. Yes he was poor in 97 v Kerry but he was a kid then. In 04 he kicked a brilliant point v Kerry in all ireland final. In 05 quarter although beaten again he was fairly good v Kerry kicking 6 points. In 06 he was well beaten by Aidan Ó Mahoney alright hut produced some great scores in croke park v Dubs etc. For me he was class. I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 10:39:00 GMT
Im afraid I can't agree with you Homer. Because I liked his style I remember alot of his games. Yes he was poor in 97 v Kerry but he was a kid then. In 04 he kicked a brilliant point v Kerry in all ireland final. In 05 quarter although beaten again he was fairly good v Kerry kicking 6 points. In 06 he was well beaten by Aidan Ó Mahoney alright hut produced some great scores in croke park v Dubs etc. For me he was class. I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. |
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 1,304
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Post by horsebox77 on Nov 6, 2022 11:29:23 GMT
Jez, if we are to start discussing the volume of over rated players that received the coveted gaa gong than we could be here a while, you know similarly I often looked at the all star selections and looked at a certain player and wondered would I stop with what we had on our own starting XV, invariably it was the wing forward berth and our own very much underrated Donnqchadh Walsh at the time, more often than not the Cromane man would hold his own.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 14:07:33 GMT
Everyone said Donncha Walsh was so underrated, he was overrated in the end!
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 14:10:44 GMT
I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. You are wasting your time trying to convince people here. Kerry players are underrated for the most part with other counties players overrated as of course Kerry have no media profile😂 |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 6, 2022 14:34:41 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald.
Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make).
The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 6, 2022 14:39:13 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald. Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make). The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters. Is he now an RTE pundit? A marauding run followed by 10 mins of nothing was how I once heard him described |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 15:02:39 GMT
Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. You are wasting your time trying to convince people here. Kerry players are underrated for the most part with other counties players overrated as of course Kerry have no media profile😂 Blacksheep I can't agree with you either. I know for a fact many Kerry players are spoken of very highly in many parts of the country and Dublin in particular. Most Dubs always mention Micko Connell Mikey Sheehy and Maurice and now they on about Clifford's brilliance. Even Billy Morgan (who has no great love of Kerry) always praises Kerry players and if you read Mickey Harte s books etc you will see that they always held Kerry in such high esteem. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 6, 2022 15:32:06 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald. Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make). The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters. Is he now an RTE pundit? A marauding run followed by 10 mins of nothing was how I once heard him described Too much of a bad-boy for RTÉ. |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 15:43:27 GMT
You are wasting your time trying to convince people here. Kerry players are underrated for the most part with other counties players overrated as of course Kerry have no media profile😂 Blacksheep I can't agree with you either. I know for a fact many Kerry players are spoken of very highly in many parts of the country and Dublin in particular. Most Dubs always mention Micko Connell Mikey Sheehy and Maurice and now they on about Clifford's brilliance. Even Billy Morgan (who has no great love of Kerry) always praises Kerry players and if you read Mickey Harte s books etc you will see that they always held Kerry in such high esteem. I thought the sarcasm was clear from my post but obviously not! Anyway great we have you to extol the virtues of other counties |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 15:45:38 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald. Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make). The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters. Is he now an RTE pundit? A marauding run followed by 10 mins of nothing was how I once heard him described No, sounds like second best player with the initials DC to me. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 17:32:29 GMT
Blacksheep I can't agree with you either. I know for a fact many Kerry players are spoken of very highly in many parts of the country and Dublin in particular. Most Dubs always mention Micko Connell Mikey Sheehy and Maurice and now they on about Clifford's brilliance. Even Billy Morgan (who has no great love of Kerry) always praises Kerry players and if you read Mickey Harte s books etc you will see that they always held Kerry in such high esteem. I thought the sarcasm was clear from my post but obviously not! Anyway great we have you to extol the virtues of other counties Delighted you happy with my comments. Yes I like to give credit when credit is due and that's a two way street. No point in being bitter for the sake of it. Sure don't we get a fair good helping from rté ré pundits etc. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 6, 2022 18:16:14 GMT
I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 19:50:16 GMT
Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week Mayo sagged him in the early years and he gave up for a year due to the abuse but had a good few years after that. Liam McHale felt the wrath of Mayo fans too on a few occasions. I do recall our own Maurice getting a bit of abuse around 94/95 for not living up to his potential. 2 years later he was Poty. No county has the monopoly on giving players a hard time. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 6, 2022 22:43:22 GMT
Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week Mayo sagged him in the early years and he gave up for a year due to the abuse but had a good few years after that. Liam McHale felt the wrath of Mayo fans too on a few occasions. I do recall our own Maurice getting a bit of abuse around 94/95 for not living up to his potential. 2 years later he was Poty. No county has the monopoly on giving players a hard time. So what your saying is that maybe we’re not the roughest type of f*ckin animals? Some others are, at least, as rough? |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 6, 2022 23:10:56 GMT
Mayo sagged him in the early years and he gave up for a year due to the abuse but had a good few years after that. Liam McHale felt the wrath of Mayo fans too on a few occasions. I do recall our own Maurice getting a bit of abuse around 94/95 for not living up to his potential. 2 years later he was Poty. No county has the monopoly on giving players a hard time. So what your saying is that maybe we’re not the roughest type of f*ckin animals? Some others are, at least, as rough? You can be sure of it. We are all alike and every county has plenty that attack their own. I heard a few Dubs abusing Cluxton saying he was a bottler. Paidi was abused as was Mickey Ned and Ogie. Tommy Lyons treated disgracefully by a few dirt bird Dub fans. I heard a Wexford man giving out stink about Lee Chin. We ain't the only "animals" and don't get me started on Cork and their abuse of their own. |
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Post by exiled on Nov 6, 2022 23:31:50 GMT
Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week After living here for 30yrs I can definitely state that Mcdonald wasn't derided as you say. I think this is your personal opinion. In fact I know a lot of Kerry fans who rate him highly.I remember how I've been slagged so much by my Tyrone friends for our inability to beat them. The thing is it takes a team to win not just 1 man. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 7, 2022 15:42:22 GMT
Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week After living here for 30yrs I can definitely state that Mcdonald wasn't derided as you say. I think this is your personal opinion. In fact I know a lot of Kerry fans who rate him highly.I remember how I've been slagged so much by my Tyrone friends for our inability to beat them. The thing is it takes a team to win not just 1 man. 97 until 2005, Mcdonald was not rated by most in Mayo and was not treated well by many of those. as mentioned by another poster, he actually packed it in for a while, because of said issues. he became a "hero" over one kick of a ball essentially and what happened prior to that, was forgotten quickly. all about opinions but i never looked at him and said "wow, what a player". same for most of that Mayo team around that time, they never ever turned up against Kerry and thats how they are judged. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Nov 7, 2022 16:46:45 GMT
After living here for 30yrs I can definitely state that Mcdonald wasn't derided as you say. I think this is your personal opinion. In fact I know a lot of Kerry fans who rate him highly.I remember how I've been slagged so much by my Tyrone friends for our inability to beat them. The thing is it takes a team to win not just 1 man. 97 until 2005, Mcdonald was not rated by most in Mayo and was not treated well by many of those. as mentioned by another poster, he actually packed it in for a while, because of said issues. he became a "hero" over one kick of a ball essentially and what happened prior to that, was forgotten quickly. all about opinions but i never looked at him and said "wow, what a player". same for most of that Mayo team around that time, they never ever turned up against Kerry and thats how they are judged. The reason he got a hard time was because of his talent Mayo fans thought he could be better. Same with McHale and Maurice for us. Diarmuid Connolly for Dubs pre 2011.Also I think you a tad harsh on Mcdonald Homer. You say he never did it v Kerry but in 2005 quarter final he was top scorer with 6 points and had a very good game. |
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,555
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Post by Jo90 on Nov 10, 2022 23:54:12 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games. If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star? Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year! Kildale and Meath got 5 between them, Brolly got one too for Derry. Wouldn't happen now, especially when neither of them 3 even won a provincial title! We won the league that year also and Fla and Darragh were both deserving of All Stars for sure. Similarly Dublin won 3 in 1991 despite getting knocked out in the 1st round in Leinster. |
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