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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2021 20:46:16 GMT
The sixth place issue in D1 is easily fixed. Top 5 qualify for quarters with 6th place, top 3 in D2 and winners of 3 and 4 going into prelim qtr finals. If all goes to form, the last 8 will be the top 6 six teams in d1 and top two in D2 so the cream is very much rising to the top. Ant team getting to the last 8 will have earned it. I am not sure you can say that about the current system especially in Leinster and Munster.
I have no sympathy for the teams finishing 7 and 8 in d1. They lost the vast majority of their games and are punished accordingly.
Proposal b is not perfect but it respresents a great starting point.
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 16, 2021 0:32:50 GMT
What is/are the objectives of the new format = more games?, less games?, more competitive (big) games?, encouraging counties to develop their game?. Is there a clear list of objectives anywhere so we can understand how the proposals came about.
Realistically there are less that six teams capable of winning the AI each year - no amount of foostering or flapping about will change that reality. The big games are going to be the games between the top sides - killing the provincials will kill off the local annual rivalries. No more Cork Kerry games unless we are back in the same division, a meaningless spring provincial game will not have the magic of a July game in PUC or Fitzgerald stadium. Sticking the 14th and 22nd ranked teams into the Sam Maguire competition is nothing short of fishing for the votes of the weaker counties and its being done at the expense of better counties.
Three of the Four provincial championships are dead ducks but they have been dead ducks for years. A non Cork or Kerry winner in Munster is a rare event but I bet those Tipp boys will cherish the ones they won hard in 2020. Dumping the provincials to pre season status is crazy - breathe life into it. Reverse some of the earlier counter proposals (my own included) by getting each province to have a top 4 ranking each year and instead of giving the winner entry to the AI along with the best placed league performers, reverse it and say the highest ranked provincial team in each province that does not qualify from their league place get the provincial spot.
Then go with something like Div 1 top 4 are into the quarter finals - Div 1 5th and 6th plus the 2 promoted Div 2 sides play the Provincial qualifiers play off for the remaining quarter final spots.
A place in the Sam Maguire championship should be earned and not given out as a token to win votes.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Oct 16, 2021 1:03:49 GMT
Here's my plan, winter talk and all:
Play the league as usual.
Play the provincial championships as usual, after the league. Provincial champions seeded 1-4 for championship.
Provincial runner-up seeded no worse than 13-16
Championship:
Rd 1: Div 3 v Div 4 teams – this round must be played before the weekend of any provincial final. If a Div 3 or Div 4 makes the provincial final, the next lowest team, based on league position, from that province takes their place in Rd 1.
Rd 2: Winners Rd 1 v Div 2 teams
That leaves us with 16 teams with the provincial champions as the top 4 seeds, who must be kept apart. Rd 3/Quarter-finals: Last 8 – open draw, neutral venue always.
Semi-finals: Open draw – neutral venue or Croke Park if both teams agree?
Final – always Croke Park
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 16, 2021 10:49:09 GMT
I really struggle to see why the weaker football counties dont look to follow the hurling formula. There are meaningful competitions for the various grades in hurling and its possible to improve enough to end up playing for the Liam McCarthy cup some day. I imagine Zack Moradi wouldnt want to swop scoring a point for Leitrim in the Lory Meagher Cup for being cannon fodder for one of the big hurling counties. www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/zak-mouradi-iraq-leitrim-203193Like hurling, at any time there are never more that 8 strong football counties and the winner will come from the top 4 usually. The difference with hurling is that the top 8 can change over time in football and this is where the league comes in as it gives us the top 8 teams by and large. I think plan B is a step in the right direction. Its not perfect because it cant be as it needs 60% at congress so it has to be designed to appeal to as many as possible. Something for everyone in the audience sort of thing. Thats just the reality. The world isnt perfect and if you want change you must bring as many with you as possible. Having been sceptical about some teams in division 1 not making the cut, i have become a believer as it will create great cut and thrust in the league games......there wont be too many dead rubbers. I would have gone for the top 2 in division 2 making the cut but i can live with whats being proposed.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 16, 2021 19:54:38 GMT
For the hell of it, the only change I could see was to seed provincials and have 4 All Irelands from the 'bottom up' in a given year. i.e. 1st 8 knocked out play out say a Mickey Kearins AI final, 2nd 8 say a Mick O'Connell, 3rd 8 say a Dermot Earley and then the Samuel Maguire. i.e. 4 super 8s.
This would keep the provincials intact, oh to me they are sacrosanct in that they guarantee a big local match annually where everybody can get a seat - anyone who knows my form on here will know I am hardly resistant to change but days like Clones, Fitzgerald Stadium, Thurles and Castlebar are immovable feasts, last suppers! They preserve the local element of the GAA, as opposed to Quatar Ballyshagattery drivel ala was it the All England Champions League played in was it Portugal, and was decided by wan goal by a Frenchman getting wan over on a German without an Englishman to be seen, well there was a few Scots! Incidentally played same weekend as Leonardi DeClifford's goal v Galway ala Darren O'Reynaldo a while back!
The individual 'super 8s' could be tweaked with ease - ah for the hell of it again, each 8 could all play each other, so 7 games min with each team guaranteed 8 games annually. That would bring them on immensely and get supporters behind them.
The key to this us that it eliminates mis-matches - better Longford playing Carlow than Dublin, well until they are nearer the mark!
The hunger would also stimulate the League and maybe present potential for positive changes down the road.
I'd be interested to hear the Prodigals think on this Ballythefireside theology?
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Post by dc84 on Oct 17, 2021 9:59:19 GMT
The sixth place issue in D1 is easily fixed. Top 5 qualify for quarters with 6th place, top 3 in D2 and winners of 3 and 4 going into prelim qtr finals. If all goes to form, the last 8 will be the top 6 six teams in d1 and top two in D2 so the cream is very much rising to the top. Ant team getting to the last 8 will have earned it. I am not sure you can say that about the current system especially in Leinster and Munster. I have no sympathy for the teams finishing 7 and 8 in d1. They lost the vast majority of their games and are punished accordingly. Proposal b is not perfect but it respresents a great starting point. This wouldve been better alright
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Post by buck02 on Oct 18, 2021 18:19:00 GMT
I listened to an interview with the Leinster Council secretary earlier on OTB AM.
I actually thought it was a parody piece for a while.
My god he came across as an ignorant obnoxious man.
If this is the type of administrators that are commonplace in the GAA - his contempt for the players came across loud and clear - then it says a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 21:37:07 GMT
I listened to an interview with the Leinster Council secretary earlier on OTB AM. I actually thought it was a parody piece for a while. My god he came across as an ignorant obnoxious man. If this is the type of administrators that are commonplace in the GAA - his contempt for the players came across loud and clear - then it says a lot. I heard a bit of it all right, it came across to me like he was trying to piss people of into voting for proposal B. Could he be a stooge for the gaa I wonder? It just didn't sound legit.
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Post by thehermit on Oct 18, 2021 21:56:36 GMT
Yeah I listened to that tonight, I've my reservations about Plan B but guys like this are a sure fire way to getting it passed! Really belligerent and yet did not have any great argument for his position. Funny because there is plenty to query and plenty of grey areas to hold your own in a debate with the fellas on Off The Ball if you had a bit of cop on. I don't know, like Kingdomboy said, you'd almost suspect OTB has done its research well and managed to find the most incompetent people to front up for the other side!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 22:01:03 GMT
The guys only interest was the Leinster championship and ensuring he was able to maintain his own little empire. When you see the likes of him involved, it is no wonder that Dublin have been allowed to strangle the life out of their championship.
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Post by The16thMan on Oct 18, 2021 22:20:01 GMT
I think in my opinion the bottom teams in Divisions 2 and 1 need knockout football also. I would keep Proposal B, apart from 1 slight tweak: All 8 teams in Division 1,the top 6 teams in Division 2 as well as the winners of Divisions 3 & 4 make up the last 16 of the Sam Maguire Cup, a seeded draw, straight knockout. The 2 relegated teams from Division 2, and the remaining teams from Divisions 3 & 4 go into the Tailteann Cup also into an open draw last 16 knockout competition. (New York & London get to play in a preliminary qualifier against a Division 4 team each which is drawn). This way every team gets at least 1 knockout game whether that be in the Sam Maguire Cup or the Tailteann Cup.
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Post by dc84 on Oct 19, 2021 19:00:33 GMT
The guys only interest was the Leinster championship and ensuring he was able to maintain his own little empire. When you see the likes of him involved, it is no wonder that Dublin have been allowed to strangle the life out of their championship. Yeah presiding over the most dysfunctional provincial championship since the connacht hurling one! He shouldve said the truth it deminishes the role of the leinster COUNCIL Jesus wept I get why Ulster want to keep theirs and even connacht as they don't have a hurling championship to fill the coffers. But anyone in munster or leinster who doesnt really want this to happen I can't understand!!
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 19, 2021 19:58:49 GMT
John Fogarty: GAA Congress may shelve championship restructure but change is coming For an organisation whose leaders insist that change is needed, the silence has been deafening TUE, 19 OCT, 2021 - 07:00 John fogarty
During last Thursday’s online meeting of county treasurers, Down’s Diarmuid Cahill revealed that his fellow board members were in the process of debating the two championship proposals ahead of Special Congress.
With the GAA’s projected gate receipts for the formats only being revealed that night — just nine days out from the pivotal vote — how were his colleagues expected to make an informed decision, he wondered.
Counties like Offaly and Westmeath had earlier in the week declared their support for Proposal B. But that backing has now been called into question as the figures revealed on Thursday night show that such a reform of the championship will result in a loss of gate receipts.
Croke Park’s delay in providing clarity on these matters was criticised by a number of speakers. GAA director of finance Ger Mulryan acknowledged those concerns but there was notable upset that the hierarchy had failed to act sooner and the vacuum was filled by calendar review taskforce member Conor O’Donoghue’s claim that Proposal B would reap the GAA €10 million more in gate receipts.
Indeed, one speaker took exception to O’Donoghue’s use of the GAA logo in his financial review of Proposal B.
Connacht secretary John Prenty, who was a member of the calendar fixtures review taskforce and has regularly called for championship reform, stressed O’Donoghue’s work did not represent that of the committee and they themselves had made no recommendations. Like GAA president Larry McCarthy, Prenty was on the “Towards 2034” body whose unpublished report recommended the provincial championships be discontinued but he has yet to comment publicly ahead of Saturday.
Considered one of the shrewdest staff figures in the GAA, Prenty is on record as favouring the four eight-team provincial conferences and perhaps he sees the writing is on the wall for that Proposal A. Nevertheless, his is a voice that would be welcome before Special Congress.
For an organisation whose leaders insist that change is needed, the silence has been deafening. In that regard, pro-Proposal B calendar fixture review members’ exasperation is understandable. If the All-Ireland SFC League is not the transformation that everybody recognises needs to happen for the sake of Gaelic football then what is? And given the amount of work and consultation they put into formulating these proposals, will we have to wait as long for alternatives to be produced?
The problem for O’Donoghue, Kevin O’Donovan, and Ronan Sheehan is not only the fact that their committee is disbanded — despite activity between members in recent weeks — but the proposals have been on the shelf for two years now. As the group’s own chairman Eddie Sullivan intimated in this newspaper, the pandemic has altered the landscape and it should have been reflected in updated proposals. That it wasn’t will likely be a primary reason it fails.
Just as understandable and palpable was the apprehension among treasurers last week. Club gate receipts may be rolling in once more but Covid has rocked confidence and coffers aren’t bountiful.
The pre-2018 qualifier system is a flawed structure of a bygone era but it is now being considered by these officials as a failsafe.
What hasn’t altered since December 2019 is the public’s realisation that the system isn’t fit for purpose. Media rights holders know it too. A return to the qualifier system next year means that again there will be very little championship football shown prior to provincial finals.
The GAA must and, you imagine, already are preparing themselves for the fallout should both proposals fail to receive 60% (by the by, don’t be surprised if the provincial conferences motion is withdrawn given the lack of support it is picking up).
In a marked move from the past, the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) has shown themselves to be proactive and their reaction to a failed vote will be interesting. A strike would seem unlikely given the season doesn’t start for another three months and their stance on Proposal B was on the basis of 30%-35% of their membership responding to their survey. However, they will have to be given reassurances that the championship will be remodelled in 2023.
It might be that the league needs a revamp also. It is football’s best competition but the revolving door between Division 1 and 2 is tedious and doing little to shatter the glass ceiling. The differences between Division 3 and 4 are negligible and they may as well be the same group.
At the very least, Proposal B has focused minds and forced football to face up to reality. The underpinning principle has to be that too many of the strong teams are facing too many of the weaker ones and those of similar ilk aren’t doing it enough against one another.
It may not be this Saturday but change is coming. It has to.
Proposed provincial leagues face squeeze
A startling feature of how Proposal B might fit into the 2022 season reveals teams could be playing for eight times in nine weekends from the middle of March through to the end of April. Prove successful in the spring provincial league and counties could be involved in semi-finals and finals on consecutive weekends, straight after their final round game in the province.
As it is envisaged the All-Ireland League backs onto the provincial leagues, teams would go straight into their three weekends of their division. A break week is planned between Round 3 and 4 and Round 6 and 7, although for a team to get to the final from an All-Ireland preliminary quarter-final they will have to play four games in five weeks.
It’s a tight squeeze and something the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) will have to address with the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) if the All-Ireland SFC League is given the green light in Croke Park on Saturday.
Considering teams will commence the championship a week after the provincial finals which is preceded the weekend by the semi-finals, the arguments put forward by provincial secretaries that their championships will be devalued has some weight.
“I think that has been oversold in the sense we don’t see it being a whole lot different to the McGrath Cup, which is a pre-season competition and we would see the provincial leagues being preseason competitions,” said Munster GAA CEO Kieran Leddy last week.
“I wonder really what value will that be for Kerry who are preparing for a Division 1 in the championship…”
Finding enough space to give the provincial league enough status is difficult when the GAA must have the inter-county season completed by the 29th Sunday in the calendar, which usually falls in mid to late July.
Even with the All-Ireland football final being played the week after the hurling decider next year as is proposed, the schedule is tight.
Who in their right mind would want to manage?
We wonder if two of Armagh’s greatest forwards were on the phone to one another the weekend before last.
Misery loves company and Oisín McConville and Stevie McDonnell had plenty of self-pity to share.
“I found myself in a very lonely, desolate place last Sunday afternoon,” McConville wrote in his Sunday Life column after his Inniskeen’s 11-point defeat to champions Scotstown in the Monaghan SFC.
“Mind you, I never thought I would ever have to express such a view relative to my attendance at a game of football. As a club manager I need no one to tell me that I cut a sad, demoralised figure.”
In his column in the Irish News last week, McDonnell addressed the Tyrone SFC defeat of his Clonoe side by Errigal Ciarán.
“Sport can sometimes be cruel and the feeling of hurt and emptiness you experience at the hands of defeat is one of the worst feelings ever.
“I know this, because right now I am feeling that pain. I’m not alone though as the length and breadth of the country, there are teams being eliminated from their county championships each weekend but that does not make it any easier.”
McConville and McDonnell were born winners, they know the game inside-out but outside the whitewash they can only do so much. Management — who in their right mind would do it?
Email: john.fogarty@examiner.ie
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Post by dc84 on Oct 20, 2021 9:44:39 GMT
www.the42.ie/proposal-b-support-special-congress-5579363-Oct2021/A few counties have thrown their hats behind prop b. Meath, Tipperary, Kildare, Cork, Longford, Down ,clare,offally and westmeath. Interesting reading for the leinster secretary who was on newstalk thats half his province publicly coming out in support of course they would be mad not to the prospect of a provincial title is out of reach for them realistically. Our own delegates will be allowed make up their own mind hopefully they realise that we would probably benefit most from this both on the pitch and financially mayo or dublin coming to killarney in the Summer in a championship match yes please !
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 20, 2021 12:41:31 GMT
All of the talk about the momentousness of Saturday’s special congress overlooks one obvious consideration. Unless Option B is accepted, the whole exercise will be at most, a staging post. Even if it the motion is successful, there will be some customisation required, which will await next February’s annual congress.
That’s not to downplay the significance of what’s at stake – the discarding of the provincial championship format would constitute the most radical shift in 135 years of intercounty competition.
You wouldn’t necessarily have picked up on that from the dilatory nature of the debate so far. Why has this happened?
Firstly the Fixtures Calendar Task Force (FCTF), which produced the options, hasn’t really been active in the past two years since the substance of its proposals were published. They did issue an updated report to reflect the new enthusiasm for the split season at the beginning of this year but the proposals were meant to go before last February’s congress.
The pandemic ensured that this would have to held remotely. As a result the task force proposals were delayed until the autumn so that an in-person special congress might consider such an important matter – a justifiable decision given the difficulties of managing lengthy debates and decision making online.
It escaped the attention of many that in the past two weeks of deteriorating public health data, confirmation that the special congress would actually be going ahead was not guaranteed. That uncertainty cleared on Tuesday afternoon and there is accordingly, a belated media briefing on Wednesday.
There are no rosettes on offer for anyone predicting that the weekend is unlikely to produce a clear endorsement of Option B whereas Option A may – as suggested by former president John Horan on Monday – be withdrawn.
So here we are, nearly two years down the line from November 2019 when the now familiar Options A and B were first unveiled.
There has been a division of opinion within the task force as to how it should conduct itself in the meantime.
Those most in favour of Option B and its league-based championship have been campaigning away to the disapproval of others, who believe that the function of the FCTF was to devise the options and leave it to the democratic process to determine their fate.
The most evident issues with this have been the effective retirement of the task force, which hasn’t been in a position to drive a sustained information and briefing process and the existence of two options, which would have made it impossible anyway for an effective consensus campaign.
As well as all of these impracticalities, even some members of the task force are conscious that these proposals come from a different world, a not-melodramatic assessment of November 2019 before a) the pandemic and b) the in some ways connected rise to favour of the split season.
Then there are administrators who believe that next year’s plan to initiate the split season and conclude the All-Irelands by the end of July – only three finals have previously been played in the month and none for more than 100 years – is enough in the way of historic challenge for one year.
This was reflected in the comments by John Horan at Monday night’s remote briefing for GAA officials. An on-the-record supporter of Option B, the former president also suggested that it be trialled in 2023 and ’24, leaving next summer to proceed according to the 2017 structure of provincial championship, qualifiers and knock-out All-Ireland quarter-finals.
This chimes with the view that the GAA has been through a lot in the past two years and that major reforms should be at a more advanced stage than either of the options currently are before being scheduled for implementation.
On the substantive issues there are two main crossroads for the future. First is the question of access versus meritocracy: does every team have a right to compete in the championship and if so, how does the championship structure reduce the incidence of punishment beatings?
Option B advocates say that the league system facilitates that by giving counties in all four divisions a shot at the All-Ireland but the progression of those in Division Three and Four ahead of the team that finishes sixth in Division One isn’t going down well with everyone.
Monaghan’s Darren Hughes dissented, not surprisingly given that for his team, finishing sixth in the top flight is a very respectable status – as well as a recurrent one. They consequently would feel pretty miffed at having to stand down in the championship in deference to counties from lower divisions.
Monaghan have been outstanding in punching above their weight – again their recent summer ended in a one-point defeat by the eventual All-Ireland champions – and the fate of sixth-placed teams would cause them and others to question what was the purpose of bettering themselves in the league?
The second crossroads is between national league and provincial championship. Option B takes the not unreasonable view that the league is the GAA’s best competition in overall terms – competiveness and quality – and that moving it to the optimum time of the year makes sense.
It may not be, however, what everyone wants. In the spring it combines good matches and the opportunity to trial players whereas in the summer it places greater pressure on counties who don’t have deep panels but would have to play seven matches in nine weeks, mending and making do to cope with any injuries they acquire.
The provinces are also hard-wired into GAA administration in many areas, from delivering and supervising grants to providing coaching education. They’re not crazy about the idea of losing their main revenue source and blandishments that there will be a cheque in the post from Croke Park doesn’t altogether reassure them.
In other words there’s a lot to talk about on Saturday in relation to these two pinch points. It will represent a good day’s work if that talk provides the basis for a reform model, which achieves some sort of consensus for trialling in 2023 and ’24.
smoran@irishtimes.com
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 20, 2021 14:42:10 GMT
My fear of Plan B being accepted is that we will be stuck with a flawed structure for a number of years - and just as there is near universal agreement of the need for change there is also near universal agreement that the proposed changes are not perfect.
I am left wondering why a serious debate has not happened over the past two years and why the obvious flaws in Plan B have not been addressed.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 20, 2021 17:31:30 GMT
My fear of Plan B being accepted is that we will be stuck with a flawed structure for a number of years - and just as there is near universal agreement of the need for change there is also near universal agreement that the proposed changes are not perfect. I am left wondering why a serious debate has not happened over the past two years and why the obvious flaws in Plan B have not been addressed. I understand and agree with your point. The best course of action is to try it for two years and if it doesnt get the 60% vote at that point then drop it. The anomalies will be obvious at that point and tweaks to the system can be built in before the vote. I have sympathy with a great county like Monaghan who have a small pool of players and who may end up in 6th place because two players are injured at the wrong time but the point made by Kerry38 earlier in this thread could resolve that. Plan B will favour the counties with bigger playing population and stronger panels but its hard to see how that can be solved.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 20, 2021 17:50:16 GMT
The sixth place issue in D1 is easily fixed. Top 5 qualify for quarters with 6th place, top 3 in D2 and winners of 3 and 4 going into prelim qtr finals. If all goes to form, the last 8 will be the top 6 six teams in d1 and top two in D2 so the cream is very much rising to the top. Ant team getting to the last 8 will have earned it. I am not sure you can say that about the current system especially in Leinster and Munster. I have no sympathy for the teams finishing 7 and 8 in d1. They lost the vast majority of their games and are punished accordingly. Proposal b is not perfect but it respresents a great starting point. A suggestion I saw elsewhere, was have an intermediate championship for the 8 teams who finish 6,7,8 in Division 1 and 4,5,6,7,8 in Division 2. This solves the issue of these teams being done for the year at the end of the league phase (which I think is something that wouldn't sit right with a lot of folk, especially when the Tailteann Cup was going on for the Division 3 and Division 4 teams) and also gives these teams a chance to salvage something from the year, after what will have been a disappointing league campaign for them - 4 out of these 8 teams would be getting relegated and the other 4 wouldn't exactly having been pulling up trees to end up 6th in Division 1 or 4th/5/6th in Division 2. With only 8 teams it would take less time than the Sam Maguire or Tailteann Cup to run off so it wouldn't have any big impact in terms of impact on the overall fixtures calendar.
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Post by kerry97 on Oct 20, 2021 18:13:20 GMT
I'm in favour of change and I think Plan B in general is better . Ultimately if the players are for it then that should be that .
My view is that the provincial championships could be kept and incorporated .
Format :
4 Divisions of eight in the current league format. 3 up , 3 down so as to avoid dead rubbers.
12 teams to contest the All Ireland series :
Top 3 in Division 1 plus the Winner of Division 2 receive a bye .
Fourth in division 1, second in division 2 and the winners of divisions 3 and 4 play the provincial championship winners. In the event of a provincial championship winner already having qualified in higher position the runner up is allocated a place . In the event the provincial runner up has also qualified , the next highest placed team in the league shall qualify that has not been relegated . ( e.g 5th in Division 1 , 3rd in Division 2 and so on.)
The league would consist of 7 games and the provincial championship would be played on an open draw basis on designated weekends with a winner on the day always being reached.
Preliminary rounds if required would be played prior to the commencement of the league .
The top four seeds receive home advantage in the QFs and the seeded league sides receive it in the round of 12. Semi Final and Final in Croke Park..
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Post by thehermit on Oct 20, 2021 20:03:34 GMT
I still believe the provincial championship need to play some part in deciding whatever Championship structure is created. Why are we so quick to throw so much history into the dustbin of irrelevance the provincial campaigns will become is Proposal B goes ahead in this form.
And of course I accept the huge issues with the PC, Leinster is now a joke, Munster not much better. But whose fault is that? The GAA themselves created the Dublin monster and instead of trying to spread investment and funding across ALL counties to readdress that some way, they instead decide that because Dublin have outgrown Leinster, Leinster needs to go. Sure the Dubs have basically outgrown the All Ireland championship too given what we've seen the past decade.
As for Munster - you constantly hear outsiders using it as a stick to beat Kerry as if we are somehow responsible for the lack of resources put in by the other 5 counties to their footballers. Like Cork seriously needed to question themselves over how their senior footballers fell away so dramatically since 2010. That has nothing to do with Kerry.
My point being, maybe if the GAA was serious about the issues of meaningful competition it would spread the wealth/funding/support around to all and not just plough it into Dublin. Maybe in counties were football is treated as a lesser citizen it could intervene directly and force CB's to treat both equally. Maybe, just, Maybe it would mean Leitrim will not win an All Ireland but do not get embarrassed by Mayo ever year. And you can still have the Tailteann Cup anyway in the guise suggested.
I'm just wondering if I'm the only person at this stage that will be desperately upset to see Cork/Kerry Munster finals in Killarney in the July sun become a thing of the past. Yes, its been a completely one-sided affair the pat 10 years. But that is an aberration that will soon end given what Cork are now doing underage.
A Munster final in late March or early April with both teams scheduled to be out for their first Championship game the following week will mean nothing really anymore.
Look maybe I just can't see the bigger picture, but I also don't know why we are so quick to throw away some things.
No solution will be perfect but Proposal B should not be grasped at because of an attitude of 'sure it's the best we can come up with'. I really don't think it is.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 20, 2021 20:52:18 GMT
Two of the best and most memorable occasions i was ever at were Kerry v Mayo in Limerick in 2014 and Kerry v Monaghan in Clones in 2018.
We need more of those in summertime. Kerry playing counties that are more interested in winning the Munster hurling title is pointless.
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Post by Moderator on Oct 20, 2021 21:28:04 GMT
The funding from Provincial Councils to clubs will be down a massive percentage, as the gate receipts from the March/April championships will be a fraction of the summer take.
Clubs doing a bit of development will be hit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 21:33:37 GMT
Two of the best and most memorable occasions i was ever at were Kerry v Mayo in Limerick in 2014 and Kerry v Monaghan in Clones in 2018. We need more of those in summertime. Kerry playing counties that are more interested in winning the Munster hurling title is pointless. 4 of favourite games were Armagh replay 00 Armagh quarter final 06 our Munster replay against Cork in 2010 and against Mayo in limerick in 2014, great games.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 21:38:01 GMT
Two of the best and most memorable occasions i was ever at were Kerry v Mayo in Limerick in 2014 and Kerry v Monaghan in Clones in 2018. We need more of those in summertime. Kerry playing counties that are more interested in winning the Munster hurling title is pointless. 4 of favourite games were Armagh replay 00 Armagh quarter final 06 our Munster replay against Cork in 2010 and against Mayo in limerick in 2014, great games.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 20, 2021 21:51:35 GMT
RTE
'Let's be bold' - GAA president McCarthy backs Proposal B ahead of Special Congress Updated / Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 20:11 GAA president Larry McCarthy and Director General Tom Ryan have both expressed a preference for Proposal B - the league-based championship format - ahead of this Saturday's Special Congress.
GAA president Larry McCarthy and Director General Tom Ryan have both expressed a preference for Proposal B - the league-based championship format - ahead of this Saturday's Special Congress.
By James McMahon RTÉ Sport Journalist
GAA president Larry McCarthy and Director General Tom Ryan have both expressed a preference for Proposal B - the league-based championship format - ahead of this Saturday's Special Congress.
McCarthy, while not wanting to put undue influence on delegates voting, said change now would be a bold move and would welcome a new structure to the football championship, starting from next season.
Ryan echoed those views when favouring the B proposal over Proposal A - a championship based on eight teams in each province.
Cork, Westmeath, Offaly, Clare, Louth, Kildare, Meath, Tipperary and Wexford are among the counties supporting the motion.
Under Proposal B, there would be a league-based championship with each team playing seven games.
Preliminary All-Ireland qualifiers would feature second and third in Division 2 taking on the winners of Division 3 and 4.
Quarter-finals would be the top four teams from Division 1 against the fifth-placed in Division 1, Division 2 winners and winners of the preliminaries.
Teams that don't qualify for the All-Ireland series from Division 3 and 4 would enter the Tailteann Cup.
Provincial championships would be retained, but as spring competitions.
Whatever proposal is considered at the Croke Park gathering this Saturday will come into effect for the 2022 season, though there is the possibility that some tweaks could be made, even after the Central Council meets on 20 November to consider the fixture programme for next year.
With 183 votes to be cast at the Special Congress, 109 votes are required for either proposal to get the green light for next year.
If delegates opt for no change then the football championship will revert to the pre-2018 format, consisting of provincial games, qualifiers, All-Ireland quarter-finals, and the addition of the Tailteann Cup.
Expanding more on his preference for the B proposal, Larry McCarthy added: "I said at Congress in February that I thought we should be bold in terms of considering this report. That hasn't changed. So I would like to see us being bold in terms of our adoption of this report.
"I would like to see it come in, if we have to tweak it, we will tweak it. I'm not immune to tweaking. If there is something not right with it, if something is not working, we will definitely tweak it.
"The championship will finish at the end of July next year, so we'll have plenty of time in which to do our revision."
Delegates at the Special Congress could vote to radically change the format of the football championship In coming around to his reasoning, Ryan referenced a new strategic plan that the GAA are embarking on over the next five years and based on a survey of members and interested parties he said there is an "appetite for change" with regard to the football championship.
"I would like to see the two motions given every chance, even though I will not go in to the merits or demerits of both," he added.
"If you're looking at what you’d like to see the characteristics of a football championship having, two of the things to my mind would be teams playing at their own level and you have a finite number of games, a definite start and end, and teams that get to the same stage of a competition have played the same number of matches.
"And B does that. So for that reason, I think Motion 19 (B) is the one I’d like to see.
"One of the things we've learned as we're going through it is there isn't a perfect solution that addresses every single requirement of every single person and matches every single perspective. [Motion] 19 is a move in a positive and right direction."
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 20, 2021 21:55:20 GMT
Two of the best and most memorable occasions i was ever at were Kerry v Mayo in Limerick in 2014 and Kerry v Monaghan in Clones in 2018. We need more of those in summertime. Kerry playing counties that are more interested in winning the Munster hurling title is pointless. 4 of favourite games were Armagh replay 00 Armagh quarter final 06 our Munster replay against Cork in 2010 and against Mayo in limerick in 2014, great games. Armagh 06, Mayo 14 are the two that stand out for me.
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Post by thehermit on Oct 20, 2021 22:23:53 GMT
Two of the best and most memorable occasions i was ever at were Kerry v Mayo in Limerick in 2014 and Kerry v Monaghan in Clones in 2018. We need more of those in summertime. Kerry playing counties that are more interested in winning the Munster hurling title is pointless. I was there both days too and they were great occasions. It was great to get a sense of what Clones must be like on Ulster final day. But can't we still have those occasions and also still play our greater rivals on a big summer days too in Munster? Maybe the powers that be decide we can't, but I feel there's a lack of imagination here in not being able to tie the provincials into a more competitive and game intensive restructured championship. We all want the latter but surely there's in enough history to make an effort to do the former too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 1:01:40 GMT
4 of favourite games were Armagh replay 00 Armagh quarter final 06 our Munster replay against Cork in 2010 and against Mayo in limerick in 2014, great games. Armagh 06, Mayo 14 are the two that stand out for me. the atmosphere in limerick was electric, you just got the feeling something special was going to happen that day and it did, it was the greatest game I ever witnessed.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 21, 2021 6:08:48 GMT
I don't think all people fully have it in their head that Plan B is a "league championship".
There is no "league campaign", they are championship games. Those in Division 2 have seven championship games. The winners have a chance to progress. The runners up are in a better position to progress the year after (arguably not).
It's not perfect but it is a "league-championship" and shouldn't be thought about as the league feeding into the championship. The league is championship in Plan B.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 21, 2021 8:21:06 GMT
The Kerry delegation will wait to hear the debate in Congress on Saturday before deciding on what way they will vote.
There is something very wrong with that.
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