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Post by Whosinmidfield on May 25, 2021 14:40:16 GMT
I'll put it this way, if Kerry had Fenton and Dublin didn't then Kerry would have won in 2015 & 2016. He's a great player and to suggest otherwise is like Dubs saying that Clifford or Seanie Se are overrated. Maybe we would have. He is very athletic which is something we have been lacking at midfield but I’m just questioning the hyperbolic commentary around him. He’s the best midfielder around but in games I’d maintain that he goes missing. For example the 2 finals in 2019 and last year’s final against Mayo even though it wasn’t even a tight game.
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Post by dc84 on May 25, 2021 15:33:17 GMT
I personally think mcarthy is the iron fist and fenton is the velvet glove ! Id rather mcarthy I think he is the Roy Keane of dublin sheer will to win and a real hardness about him (see throw in to 2nd half last Sunday). If i could take one player from outside kerry it would be him
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Post by playitfair on May 25, 2021 15:49:07 GMT
I personally think mcarthy is the iron fist and fenton is the velvet glove ! Id rather mcarthy I think he is the Roy Keane of dublin sheer will to win and a real hardness about him (see throw in to 2nd half last Sunday). If i could take one player from outside kerry it would be him My favourite Dublin player, a real Rolls Royce with a very high cruising speed.
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Post by colinsworth1 on May 25, 2021 16:10:13 GMT
Great fare in Thurles and absolutely brilliant to have it back again. Kerry have no chance of an All Ireland if Clifford picks up an injury. And I mean no chance. Dublin have a much better spread of talent that means an injury to one of their main men can be more easily absorbed. Although it wasn't like Dublin to not finish off Kerry when they got 7 in front I think they will be much sharper and fitter come later stages of Championship. Kerry finished very strongly and looked very fit. Hard to know exactly where both teams are on the fitness measurement but Dublin looked a fair bit behind. Which probably ties into the reasoning as to why Dublin couldn't put Kerry away. And to be fair Kerry fought every step of the way. Lastly, really surprised with the level of vitriol here against the keep ball tactic. You should be genuflecting and giving up prayers that this tactic was what finally finished off the blanket. Exhibit 1, the semi final of 2018 v Tyrone. Tyrone were picked apart. This tactic has led to some magical plays, Con v Mayo in 2019 semi, and an exact replica last Sunday between Kilkenny and Con. And btw it kept Dublin in it in the 2019 drawn game when we were hanging on by our fingernails in the last 10 mins with 14 men. And who created the chances in the last 10 mins of that game despite being a man short? If Kerry wanted the ball last Sunday there was nothing to stop them coming out and trying to get it. The blanket is dead because of Dublin. Or close to death at least! And we are boring. Wow! Kicking and handpassing the ball over and back for the final 6 or 7 minutes holding on to a lead is boring (Amounts to roughly 10% of the game!). The same way in soccer, it was boring if a team was a goal up with 20 minutes to go they would continually pass it back to the goalkeeper until 1992. Nobody is questioning its effectiveness, Sunday was one of the few days it was caught out in the last 5 years. Like nobody was questioning the effectiveness of Mickey Harte's style in the noughties. But nothing wrong with highlighting the fact it doesn't make for attractive viewing is there? tge. 45 M rule is simple to follow simple to implement Yes keep ball is dreadful to watch but we have t seen the worst of it yet A team like Dublin who are masters of this keep ball could really and truly retain possession against most teams from throw in to water break It’s not an exaggeration one day soon you will see an AI Final finish with one team holding the ball for the final 10 min Thus killing the event completely as a spectacle I’m surprised the TV network s are not concerned about this Unless the restricti the space we’re going to see this game where fitness trumps all else including football and people won’t pay to watch and players won’t enjoy playing Need to bring in the 45 m rule and get rid of the forward mark
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Post by pipsqueak01 on May 25, 2021 18:45:38 GMT
Great fare in Thurles and absolutely brilliant to have it back again. Kerry have no chance of an All Ireland if Clifford picks up an injury. And I mean no chance. Dublin have a much better spread of talent that means an injury to one of their main men can be more easily absorbed. Although it wasn't like Dublin to not finish off Kerry when they got 7 in front I think they will be much sharper and fitter come later stages of Championship. Kerry finished very strongly and looked very fit. Hard to know exactly where both teams are on the fitness measurement but Dublin looked a fair bit behind. Which probably ties into the reasoning as to why Dublin couldn't put Kerry away. And to be fair Kerry fought every step of the way. Lastly, really surprised with the level of vitriol here against the keep ball tactic. You should be genuflecting and giving up prayers that this tactic was what finally finished off the blanket. Exhibit 1, the semi final of 2018 v Tyrone. Tyrone were picked apart. This tactic has led to some magical plays, Con v Mayo in 2019 semi, and an exact replica last Sunday between Kilkenny and Con. And btw it kept Dublin in it in the 2019 drawn game when we were hanging on by our fingernails in the last 10 mins with 14 men. And who created the chances in the last 10 mins of that game despite being a man short? If Kerry wanted the ball last Sunday there was nothing to stop them coming out and trying to get it. The blanket is dead because of Dublin. Or close to death at least! And we are boring. Wow! Keep ball is grand if it's your team that's doing it! In fairness Dublins first goal was from a keep ball exercise where they moved it along both wings a couple of times before taking it into the corner and then passing a ball into space. Dublin are masters of clearing out the scoring zone in those situations and hats off to them. Maybe have a rule that if you are inside the oppositions 45 you can't go back beyond your own 65 then. That would allow the other team to put on a more aggressive press and would stop teams kicking it back to the keeper who is standing on the 21. It would have to be a version of this. Otherwise if you could not go back outside the 45 it’d lead to ponderous attacking play where the attacking team would think about whether it would be worthwhile crossing into it or not and all of the opposition team immediately dropping back and terrible swarm defences. Your 65 version would leave enough space for attack and defence to show us what they had while giving a reasonable chance of a turnover! Even a back court would be fine, once you cross halfway you can’t go back. At least then the defensive team only has half the pitch to worry about at all times
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Post by hurlingman on May 25, 2021 18:47:32 GMT
I'll put it this way, if Kerry had Fenton and Dublin didn't then Kerry would have won in 2015 & 2016. He's a great player and to suggest otherwise is like Dubs saying that Clifford or Seanie Se are overrated. Maybe we would have. He is very athletic which is something we have been lacking at midfield but I’m just questioning the hyperbolic commentary around him. He’s the best midfielder around but in games I’d maintain that he goes missing. For example the 2 finals in 2019 and last year’s final against Mayo even though it wasn’t even a tight game. He's like quite a few Dublin players of this era. When they're left play they look great but can go missing. It's something i've never understood as to why teams to let them play.
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Post by dc84 on May 25, 2021 19:21:41 GMT
Jeez lads some odd ones here dublins advantage has been the amount of quality players they have with most other teams you have to worry about 2 or 3 lads ie Murphy, mchugh and mcbrearty for Donegal curtail those 3 and you are 3/4 the ways there. With Dublin it has been fenton,mcaffrey, Kilkenny,Connolly, o Callaghan, flynn etc when 0ne or 2 lads are negated another 2 step up.and the supporting cast is very strong. I do firmly believe that there is less of the stardust to this team no brogans,Connolly mcaffrey ,flynn or mannion and mcmahon and Cooper are getting on . They are still the best out there from a team point of view very capable players in every line it will take an exceptional team to take their crown are we that team ? From 9-15 definitely from 1-8 time will tell...
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Post by ataboy on May 25, 2021 23:28:02 GMT
I personally think mcarthy is the iron fist and fenton is the velvet glove ! Id rather mcarthy I think he is the Roy Keane of dublin sheer will to win and a real hardness about him (see throw in to 2nd half last Sunday). If i could take one player from outside kerry it would be him The best player of the decade imo. Remarkably consistent and delivered key moments for Dublin. Edges it over Michael Murphy for me.
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kot
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Post by kot on May 26, 2021 10:13:21 GMT
Agree on McCarthy, he is hard too and tough as nails but its as you see it - no theatrics involved if someone gives it back too.
Added to that he is a complete all around footballer, for me in 2016 was the player of the year.
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 26, 2021 10:57:37 GMT
I personally think mcarthy is the iron fist and fenton is the velvet glove ! Id rather mcarthy I think he is the Roy Keane of dublin sheer will to win and a real hardness about him (see throw in to 2nd half last Sunday). If i could take one player from outside kerry it would be him The best player of the decade imo. Remarkably consistent and delivered key moments for Dublin. Edges it over Michael Murphy for me. Hard to compare and contrast him to Murphy but I had a unique perspective on James v Tyrone in 2018 - the telepathy with Clux was awesome, in one instance McCarthy made a run and intersected perfectly with the delivery from Clux, had me conclude this arrangement works better the older the target. Stood behind Clux in Omagh has me close as close to proceedings and it was a revelation, had me tune into how Clux does it - any number will be making the run and I'm convinced Stephen mightn't finally make upo his mind until near enough his foot making contact withy the ball, amazing stuff really though maybe trivial detail for training personnel, at inter-county level anyway. I wonder what the story is with him coaching others, some of who may well push him out, eventually? I'd recommend anyone watch Dubs playing in local pitches, do as I did and go behind the goals for a serious hour of observation.
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Post by oldschool on May 26, 2021 12:31:02 GMT
Why is David Clifford always referred to as Clifford.
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Post by veteran on May 26, 2021 15:41:47 GMT
Why is David Clifford always referred to as Clifford. I understand your point Oldschool. As far as possible, I always try to refer to players via their first name. I feel this is a more respectful salutation and one , I suspect , their family would appreciate. With the advent of Paudie the situation may improve. I noticed the same situation with Kieran Donaghy, invariably being referred to as Donaghy. Even some of his playing colleagues only used his surname when referring to him. It used to grate on my nerves. I think his autobiography was titled Donaghy but that was just a publishing gimmick.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 26, 2021 16:31:29 GMT
Why is David Clifford always referred to as Clifford. I understand your point Oldschool. As far as possible, I always try to refer to players via their first name. I feel this is a more respectful salutation and one , I suspect , their family would appreciate. With the advent of Paudie the situation may improve. I noticed the same situation with Kieran Donaghy, invariably being referred to as Donaghy. Even some of his playing colleagues only used his surname when referring to him. It used to grate on my nerves. I think his autobiography was titled Donaghy but that was just a publishing gimmick. I think the use of the forename, very popular in Mayo (even with Mayo pundits talking on the national stage), conveys a friendly familiarity that often doesn't exist.
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Post by southward on May 26, 2021 17:33:56 GMT
Why is David Clifford always referred to as Clifford. I understand your point Oldschool. As far as possible, I always try to refer to players via their first name. I feel this is a more respectful salutation and one , I suspect , their family would appreciate. With the advent of Paudie the situation may improve. I noticed the same situation with Kieran Donaghy, invariably being referred to as Donaghy. Even some of his playing colleagues only used his surname when referring to him. It used to grate on my nerves. I think his autobiography was titled Donaghy but that was just a publishing gimmick. His markers called him Sir.
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Post by veteran on May 26, 2021 19:02:49 GMT
The use of the forename “ conveys a friendly familiarity that often does not exist”. I understand how that could apply for instance , where a student addresses a teacher by their forename or a young child addresses an octogenarian as Mary etc etc, in other words where there is a difference in status , age and so on. But we are talking about Kerry football or football in general as the case may be.
Undue familiarity with David and Kieran in Kerry football terms? Are you serious? Unduly friendly ? Again in Kerry football terms , do you think David and Kieran are my friends? Put your life savings on it.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 26, 2021 19:43:30 GMT
The use of the forename “ conveys a friendly familiarity that often does not exist”. I understand how that could apply for instance , where a student addresses a teacher by their forename or a young child addresses an octogenarian as Mary etc etc, in other words where there is a difference in status , age and so on. But we are talking about Kerry football or football in general as the case may be. Undue familiarity with David and Kieran in Kerry football terms? Are you serious? Unduly friendly ? Again in Kerry football terms , do you think David and Kieran are my friends? Put your life savings on it. I think that warmth from you to the Kerry players is very endearing. I don't think I would like to taint that further.
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Post by veteran on May 26, 2021 20:10:54 GMT
The use of the forename “ conveys a friendly familiarity that often does not exist”. I understand how that could apply for instance , where a student addresses a teacher by their forename or a young child addresses an octogenarian as Mary etc etc, in other words where there is a difference in status , age and so on. But we are talking about Kerry football or football in general as the case may be. Undue familiarity with David and Kieran in Kerry football terms? Are you serious? Unduly friendly ? Again in Kerry football terms , do you think David and Kieran are my friends? Put your life savings on it. I think that warmth from you to the Kerry players is very endearing. I don't think I would like to taint that further. You caved in fairly quickly. Not “very endearing”.
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Hicser
Senior Member
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Post by Hicser on May 27, 2021 22:25:00 GMT
Anyone got access to Ciaran Whelans article on Kerry v Dublin in the Indo?
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Post by sullyschoice on May 30, 2021 21:59:54 GMT
Heard from someone "in the know" that Stephen Cluxton isn't coming back this year
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Post by taggert on May 30, 2021 22:12:27 GMT
Very interesting. A man who reinvented the role of the goalkeeper. Would be a huge loss as he is one of their big 5 alongside McCarthy, Fenton, Kilkenny and Con.
Watched them today against Galway - Kilkenny practically played on the sideline at stages as they stretched the defence to the max and popped handpasses into the space. Exactly like last week when BoB and PM wwre waten alive on rhat flank. Their seasoned players dont make bad calls on the ball - retention of possession is king as the system demands. In contrast, by the 22nd minute of the Kerry game today against the Rossies, Paul Geaney kicked the ball away to turn over possession - it was his 3rd time doing that since the ball was thrown in today. Kilkenny won't have 3 turnovers this entire season.....
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on May 30, 2021 22:36:55 GMT
Heard from someone "in the know" that Stephen Cluxton isn't coming back this year until its said treat it as he is still there. We are still recovering from Seanie Shea's ACL injury announced in this thread before this game.
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Post by sullyschoice on May 30, 2021 23:21:40 GMT
Heard from someone "in the know" that Stephen Cluxton isn't coming back this year until its said treat it as he is still there. We are still recovering from Seanie Shea's ACL injury announced in this thread before this game. It is a usually credible source. Not via someone else.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on May 31, 2021 22:36:54 GMT
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jun 1, 2021 10:07:13 GMT
until its said treat it as he is still there. We are still recovering from Seanie Shea's ACL injury announced in this thread before this game. It is a usually credible source. Not via someone else. Not via someone else, so direct from Cluxton himself?
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tpo
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Post by tpo on Jun 1, 2021 10:54:04 GMT
It is a usually credible source. Not via someone else. Not via someone else, so direct from Cluxton himself? His wife
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jun 1, 2021 12:14:24 GMT
Philly is hardly going to retire after being available and playing in the league.
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Post by dc84 on Jun 1, 2021 14:03:43 GMT
Philly is hardly going to retire after being available and playing in the league. It would suggest might be his last campaign I think it wouldve been whether he chose it or not.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 1, 2021 14:44:14 GMT
Anyone got access to Ciaran Whelans article on Kerry v Dublin in the Indo? And Pats wan too, i.e. The auld hoor of 8 from Templenoe!
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 1, 2021 17:04:38 GMT
Not via someone else, so direct from Cluxton himself? His wife 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 1, 2021 17:05:36 GMT
Philly is hardly going to retire after being available and playing in the league. It would suggest might be his last campaign I think it wouldve been whether he chose it or not. He has taken up some role with Bohemians now.
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