|
Post by Mickmack on Dec 22, 2020 13:12:33 GMT
No mention by Colm Keys of the population issue which is nearly a bigger issue than funding.
And turning off or reducing funding now will take 10 years to show an effect.
|
|
|
Post by mitchelsontour on Dec 22, 2020 14:59:09 GMT
I am not the greatest wordsmith by any means and I am sure that my former English teachers in The Green would agree. I am not a scholar of social, societal or psychological matters by any means however I shall try and convey my thoughts on the matter as clearly as I can.
The despair and apathy that many, if not most, felt outside of these within Dublin after Saturday is only a reflection of the feeling many in the country have towards the greater Dublin region.
The disparity of investment on the western seaboard and it seems there is always another announcement of a factory closing their doors lurking around the corner in these areas. While this has a devastating effect on the social and societal threads of the towns and smaller outlying communities, it has now been reflected in the one thing that many felt if not equal to but at least having the opportunity to compete on a relatively equal footing the GAA.
Having a missive or worse silence from Croke Park on the matter of funding is similar to the IDA giving a canned press release about working to bring in a new industry to replace the one just lost. It is just insulting.
Make no mistake you have to admire what Dublin have created, but no matter how much is given to the rest of the country from now on and a reduction in their funding, they have had a 10 year head start. That 10 year head start in creating a conveyor belt of new talent coming through will probably equate to another 10 years in actual development terms of other counties as they attempt to get up to speed.(As you pointed out Mickmack, I had started writing this post yesterday) Now that is a bleak outlook.
The funding disparity is highlighted even further when you consider that for every euro that was given to Dublin their clubs had to have the ability to match this when hiring GDO which they did, so in reality you could double the amount invested in Dublin to get a truer reflection of the monetary advantage.
I have said my piece, now I will look forward to the new year with much hope and anticipation that things may return to some normality everyday life. Hopefully the wake up call we received in Cork will drive the team on.
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Dec 22, 2020 15:54:29 GMT
Mitchellsontour , You are a better wordsmith than you think .
You make pertinent points of course and I understand your despair. However , as I have said here previously I am optimistic about 2021. I expect Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal , Mayo, Galway to make an impact and quite possibly close that gap. I for one look forward to 2021 with hope.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 27, 2020 17:26:44 GMT
Donegal manager Declan Bonnar was interviewed on local radio today, says that Dublin won't be split and that other counties will just have to catch up. He mentioned a name that escapes me for putting the Dubs system in place 20 years ago though he did concede that money was required. Bonnar also said they were unable to account for their performance v Cavan, or maybe unwilling to divulge - ah nobody would and they couldn't be sure anyway, if they were they could do have done something about it? It was strange though, I suppose we know where we fell down but we are hoping it away, and I am hoping this works.
Neil Magee has also declared for 2021 saying the only way to rid of the hurt of The Ulster Final was to get back playing.
Ulster will interesting this year with Donaghy in Armagh, Donie on stony grey soil and a new broom in Tyrone.
I suppose the big question is, will Mickey Harte take down the Dubs in his first year with Louth? Seriously though, it may be a wee county but it has double the population of both Monaghan and Fermanagh and it's GAA community matches or exceeds most counties, certainly non-city counties anyway, us included. I'd say it is bigger than Donegal which has the same overall population as ourselves. It would be interesting to know if Louth has systems in place, under age, etc, and the Harte factor will raise the profile just like Dwyer in Leinster and PO'6 in Westmeath.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 27, 2020 18:48:11 GMT
I am not the greatest wordsmith by any means and I am sure that my former English teachers in The Green would agree. I am not a scholar of social, societal or psychological matters by any means however I shall try and convey my thoughts on the matter as clearly as I can. The despair and apathy that many, if not most, felt outside of these within Dublin after Saturday is only a reflection of the feeling many in the country have towards the greater Dublin region. The disparity of investment on the western seaboard and it seems there is always another announcement of a factory closing their doors lurking around the corner in these areas. While this has a devastating effect on the social and societal threads of the towns and smaller outlying communities, it has now been reflected in the one thing that many felt if not equal to but at least having the opportunity to compete on a relatively equal footing the GAA. Having a missive or worse silence from Croke Park on the matter of funding is similar to the IDA giving a canned press release about working to bring in a new industry to replace the one just lost. It is just insulting. Make no mistake you have to admire what Dublin have created, but no matter how much is given to the rest of the country from now on and a reduction in their funding, they have had a 10 year head start. That 10 year head start in creating a conveyor belt of new talent coming through will probably equate to another 10 years in actual development terms of other counties as they attempt to get up to speed.(As you pointed out Mickmack, I had started writing this post yesterday) Now that is a bleak outlook. The funding disparity is highlighted even further when you consider that for every euro that was given to Dublin their clubs had to have the ability to match this when hiring GDO which they did, so in reality you could double the amount invested in Dublin to get a truer reflection of the monetary advantage. I have said my piece, now I will look forward to the new year with much hope and anticipation that things may return to some normality everyday life. Hopefully the wake up call we received in Cork will drive the team on. There is nil to worry about with your mastery of language and your communication skill is remarkable. Thank God you don't suffer any of them social diseases you refer to. In my opinion and for what it is worth, many's the good story that is ruined by words that aren't readily understood and so the train of thought is interrupted, often losing the point. And the better the story the worse this becomes, i.e. makes little difference with a bad story as the message is already weak. Anyway back to business, Donegal manager Declan Bonnar was interviewed on local radio today, says that Dublin won't be split and that other counties will just have to catch up. He mentioned a name that escapes me for putting the Dubs system in place 20 years ago though he did concede that money was required. Bonnar also said they were unable to account for their performance v Cavan, or maybe unwilling to divulge - ah nobody would and they couldn't be sure anyway, if they were they could do have done something about it? It was strange though, I suppose we know where we fell down but we are hoping it away, and I am hoping this works. Neil Magee has also declared for 2021 saying the only way to rid of the hurt of the Ulster Final was to get back playing. Ulster will be interesting this year with Donaghy in Armagh, Donie on stony grey soil and a new broom in Tyrone. I have noticed a swell of the mid range footballer in Donegal in recent years, so you'd be thinking it is pushing more laddos up so they are on par with us and there will be some interesting encounters as the tier below Dublin grows. Mayo have often been written off and I suppose the hope now is the new blood and they appear to have the numbers too so nobody will be thieving anything out of MacHale Park. I suppose the big question is, will Mickey Harte take down the Dubs in his first year with Louth? Seriously though, it may be a wee county but it has double the population of both Monaghan and Fermanagh and it's GAA community matches or exceeds most counties, certainly non-city counties anyway, us included. I'd say it is bigger than Donegal which has the same overall population as ourselves. It would be interesting to know if Louth has systems in place, under age, etc, and the Harte factor will raise the profile just like Dwyer in Leinster and PO'6 in Westmeath.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 30, 2020 1:16:52 GMT
Good enough article by Davy Fitz in Indo re Limerick's imminent dominance. Probably adds to the debate re Dubs. Anyone have insight to Limerick? Ok, well funded but so are we - maybe it a vintage crop?
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 6, 2021 12:24:56 GMT
A few decent articles in the papers these days, e.g. Paul Galvin in Depapa.
Also Jonathan Lyne quotes -An ESRI report in September of 2018 found that inter-county players are giving up to 31 hours a week to their sport, but Lyne has said the amount of hours a player is putting in between gym work, training, video sessions, and meetings has “gone to a new level” over the past two years.
So say 40 hours a week, someone got a bill from a solicitor in Listowel lately that worked out at €750 an hour, and that was apart from the stradivarius which wasn't itemised for some strange reason! Anyway 40 hours x €750 an hour puts a GAA player on €30k pw or €1.5m a year, and then consider how far more valuable his contribution is to society, than the fiddle player that is!
Now where's my gear, has anyone got PK's tel no?
Nice work if you can get is as the anorak of Fagan's Pub would say - and nice work it was when the only sweat was lifting the proceeds of the accumulator of outsiders that came up, nice info and if you can get it Bartholomew, and better the betting is getting!
Jazus where did the rest of us go wrong? Where's my auld fiddle?
|
|
|
Post by An Bradán on Jan 28, 2021 13:16:00 GMT
One of the most depressing things about this thread is how many people didn't bother reading Conellan's letter and investing some time looking at his points.
I have relations in Dublin who rubbish this argument but are still extremely touchy about it. They know the funding is skewed and certainly has given Dublin a massive leg up but will never admit it to a Kerryman. Many others in Dublin are entirely blinkered to this and aren't worth a second of your time arguing the point. Kerry's or Kilkenny's dominance in different eras are false equivalencies which are trotted out in lazy arguments.
Did Dublin really need to be rescued in 2003 ?. Should they not have been told to "up their game" like they now patronisingly suggest to other counties. The arrogance of some in Dublin is simply staggering on the odd occasion this issue gets an airing.
The other counties have been screwed over by the association in comparison. Whether those counties are poorly run or not is immaterial. Dublin was a ****show back in the day when they were rescued. On a calculation of € per regst player the funding is massively out of scale. And that's before you even start considering and accepting that other counties have natural disadvantages in comparison to Dublin.
I'd suggest that the money would be better and more equitably spent in supporting the likes of smaller counties like Leitrim, Longford, Sligo and the like.with small population and other disadvantages The counties outside Dublin have seen the opposite with big population growth in the past few years and need all the aid they can get to cater for this.
Dublin doesn't need any more help. They're a massively successful enterprise on and off the pitch. They were bought new wings by HQ and learnt to fly in 2011. That was well beyond time for this nonsense to end.
In time we'll look back and realise we've been massively betrayed by our own association.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 28, 2021 14:19:16 GMT
That is an excellent point about Dublin in 2003.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 28, 2021 20:14:34 GMT
And what about the proposed solution now put forward?
An eerie silence about the forum.
|
|
|
Post by skybluezone on Feb 5, 2021 1:15:27 GMT
One of the most depressing things about this thread is how many people didn't bother reading Conellan's letter and investing some time looking at his points. I have relations in Dublin who rubbish this argument but are still extremely touchy about it. They know the funding is skewed and certainly has given Dublin a massive leg up but will never admit it to a Kerryman. Many others in Dublin are entirely blinkered to this and aren't worth a second of your time arguing the point. Kerry's or Kilkenny's dominance in different eras are false equivalencies which are trotted out in lazy arguments. Did Dublin really need to be rescued in 2003 ?. Should they not have been told to "up their game" like they now patronisingly suggest to other counties. The arrogance of some in Dublin is simply staggering on the odd occasion this issue gets an airing. The other counties have been screwed over by the association in comparison. Whether those counties are poorly run or not is immaterial. Dublin was a ****show back in the day when they were rescued. On a calculation of € per regst player the funding is massively out of scale. And that's before you even start considering and accepting that other counties have natural disadvantages in comparison to Dublin. I'd suggest that the money would be better and more equitably spent in supporting the likes of smaller counties like Leitrim, Longford, Sligo and the like.with small population and other disadvantages The counties outside Dublin have seen the opposite with big population growth in the past few years and need all the aid they can get to cater for this. Dublin doesn't need any more help. They're a massively successful enterprise on and off the pitch. They were bought new wings by HQ and learnt to fly in 2011. That was well beyond time for this nonsense to end. In time we'll look back and realise we've been massively betrayed by our own association.] Interesting post but relying on the registered players "calculation" undermines it. The registered players thing is a complete red herring and a lazy way of measuring funding. Money allocated to grow the game at grass roots level by encouraging participation at primary schools level has nothing to do with the number of adult players in a county. Nothing, unless you factor in a time lag of 10 years minimum where a few will stick at it long enough to be good enough for inter county level. A much more accurate calculation is to divide the number of primary school kids in Dublin by the amount allocated. Dublin are well down that league table. In fact you could extrapolate further and subtract the number of registered players in Dublin who are not from Dublin and thus inflate this mysterious registered players number to a higher figure. But it means nothing. Malachy Clerkin in the Irish Times recently hosted a 'virtual' debate between John Connellan and Teehan? the new Leinster council Chairman. It appears to have been a struggle for John who was bringing figures that were years out of date to support his argument. He'll need to up his game at Congress. Not sure how to upload the article but it made for interesting reading.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 5, 2021 7:46:43 GMT
One of the most depressing things about this thread is how many people didn't bother reading Conellan's letter and investing some time looking at his points. I have relations in Dublin who rubbish this argument but are still extremely touchy about it. They know the funding is skewed and certainly has given Dublin a massive leg up but will never admit it to a Kerryman. Many others in Dublin are entirely blinkered to this and aren't worth a second of your time arguing the point. Kerry's or Kilkenny's dominance in different eras are false equivalencies which are trotted out in lazy arguments. Did Dublin really need to be rescued in 2003 ?. Should they not have been told to "up their game" like they now patronisingly suggest to other counties. The arrogance of some in Dublin is simply staggering on the odd occasion this issue gets an airing. The other counties have been screwed over by the association in comparison. Whether those counties are poorly run or not is immaterial. Dublin was a ****show back in the day when they were rescued. On a calculation of € per regst player the funding is massively out of scale. And that's before you even start considering and accepting that other counties have natural disadvantages in comparison to Dublin. I'd suggest that the money would be better and more equitably spent in supporting the likes of smaller counties like Leitrim, Longford, Sligo and the like.with small population and other disadvantages The counties outside Dublin have seen the opposite with big population growth in the past few years and need all the aid they can get to cater for this. Dublin doesn't need any more help. They're a massively successful enterprise on and off the pitch. They were bought new wings by HQ and learnt to fly in 2011. That was well beyond time for this nonsense to end. In time we'll look back and realise we've been massively betrayed by our own association.] Interesting post but relying on the registered players "calculation" undermines it. The registered players thing is a complete red herring and a lazy way of measuring funding. Money allocated to grow the game at grass roots level by encouraging participation at primary schools level has nothing to do with the number of adult players in a county. Nothing, unless you factor in a time lag of 10 years minimum where a few will stick at it long enough to be good enough for inter county level. A much more accurate calculation is to divide the number of primary school kids in Dublin by the amount allocated. Dublin are well down that league table. In fact you could extrapolate further and subtract the number of registered players in Dublin who are not from Dublin and thus inflate this mysterious registered players number to a higher figure. But it means nothing. Malachy Clerkin in the Irish Times recently hosted a 'virtual' debate between John Connellan and Teehan? the new Leinster council Chairman. It appears to have been a struggle for John who was bringing figures that were years out of date to support his argument. He'll need to up his game at Congress. Not sure how to upload the article but it made for interesting reading. What are the figures? Show your workings.
|
|
|
Post by skybluezone on Feb 19, 2021 14:40:54 GMT
What are the figures? Show your workings. Apologies for late reply. Was in Tenerife getting my teeth done. Can't remember where I saw the league table of funding, I've checked the Irish Sports Council and GAA websites and it's not there. Or at least it's not obvious to me that it's not there. Notwithstanding that , GAA correspondent Pat Nolan tweeted the other day (figures from Daily Mirror) 2019 total central games development fund €11.6 million Dublin got €1.3 million (12%)2020 total was €3.8 million Dublin got just under €750k (20%).So figures of 12% and 20% of the overall pot strongly suggest a lack of financial doping. But my overall point is that figures derived from number of registered players is a complete nonsense. This was a red herring calculation starting I believe with Ewan McKenna and now being carried on by John Connellan.
|
|