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Post by Mickmack on Nov 28, 2020 10:58:34 GMT
I have written many posts praising Sean Kelly for his initiatives such as the club all irelands and comprtitions in hurling such as Christy Ring etc.
But what the f... was he thinking in 2003 when he decided Dublin football needed rescuing.
At the end of the 2013 final after Mayo had lost anothet final by a point the President of the GAA Liam ONeill was interviewed. The first thing out of him was the GAA want Dublin to be winning All Irelands. It was almost like "this is a policy decision". At that point Dublin had won it two years previously and Mayos previous one was 1951. The same Liam ONeill now wants a conversation about Dublin.
Anyone else smell a rat?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 11:33:21 GMT
If the Gaa had given all counties over the past 15 years the same increased level of funding as they gave Dublin, is there not a good chance Dublin would still have ended up dominating due to their population, infrastructure and commercial income.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 28, 2020 12:26:29 GMT
If the Gaa had given all counties over the past 15 years the same increased level of funding as they gave Dublin, is there not a good chance Dublin would still have ended up dominating due to their population, infrastructure and commercial income. Of course there is. All that was needed was to get their act together. They always had a fair wind. The GAA turned it into a "full force gale" to borrow Van Morrison's song title
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Post by Ballyfireside on Nov 28, 2020 15:48:54 GMT
I have written many posts praising Sean Kelly for his initiatives such as the club all irelands and comprtitions in hurling such as Christy Ring etc. But what the f... was he thinking in 2003 when he decided Dublin football needed rescuing. At the end of the 2013 final after Mayo had lost anothet final by a point the President of the GAA Liam ONeill was interviewed. The first thing out of him was the GAA want Dublin to be winning All Irelands. It was almost like "this is a policy decision". At that point Dublin had won it two years previously and Mayos previous one was 1951. The same Liam ONeill now wants a conversation about Dublin. Anyone else smell a rat? People placed a lot of trust in Sean and when you scratch the surface you'd struggle to understand what he gains by letting his own down. I for one don't believe he is in it for the money so why do it.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Nov 28, 2020 17:40:12 GMT
Even if we accept that Dublin needed saving in the early 2000s, the main question would be how long did they plan to have increased funding, what targets it needed to reach and if it was a failure why continue it for 15 years plus? If it was a success did it need to take over 10 years to have increased funding for the counties bordering Dublin. If it was a success then you don't have to invest more as it is saved. If it is a success why not replicate it in other counties. Until JP turned up Limerick was lost to rugby. Why wasn't there any effort made there? There were reasons for this investment but the logic of any oversight is criminal for an amateur organisation to financially dope one amatuer team for close to two decades. It's not Dublin GAA's fault here, they did what we all would have done.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 4, 2020 15:37:48 GMT
Irish Examiner Logo
Paul Rouse: Be it Croke Park or Camp Nou, home advantage counts
FRI, 04 DEC, 2020 - 07:00 Paul Rouse
The manner in which Dublin dismantled Meath was so absolute that a tipping-point has been reached.
Meath are the second-best team in Leinster. They have made good progress under Andy McEntee to the point where there was a general sense that they had closed the gap on Dublin.
It was not that people could be found who were really convinced that Meath would beat Dublin in the Leinster final, rather the belief was that they would be competitive – at least for stretches of the game.
Instead, the opposite happened. The game was over by the first water-break. Dublin were so utterly dominant in every phase that it was as if the teams were playing two different sports.
If the final was the immediate context of the dismay about the state of Leinster football, the fact that it was Dublin’s 10th Leinster championship in a row is a true reflection of their dominance.
It is impossible to think of even one game across those ten years when it seemed likely that Dublin would be beaten. It is hard even to think of a game where it was conceivable.
Even Leinster finals have been a succession of non-events.
As things now stand, it is difficult to see any Leinster team defeating Dublin in a championship match in the foreseeable future. It is in this context that Ciarán Whelan said that the rest of Leinster were “psychologically smashed” and that Colm O’Rourke spoke of “humiliation”.
When you even get to ask a question such as “Would Dublin beat a selection of the Rest of Leinster?” you know you are in an entirely unbalanced competition.
This unbalance is the product of a generation of players who are outstanding. They are the best squad ever to play Gaelic football. Their skill levels are immense and they play with a relentlessness that is unmatched.
They have been – and are – brilliantly managed and the whole support network around the Dublin senior football team is exemplary.
The bottom line is that there is no sense now that Dublin are going to disimprove any time soon. Indeed, they have transitioned out players such as Paul Flynn, Diarmuid Connolly and the Brogans and their superiority is undiminished.
Competitiveness in Leinster will only come through raising the quality of the footballers – and the teams – being produced in the other counties.
In this, the counties must look to themselves in the first instance. Why are they not producing better footballers? Is the coaching good enough? Is the recruitment good enough? Are the clubs and the schools doing their work properly? Are internal structures and calendar of play maximised in each county?
But there are also two other issues that merit consideration. The first relates to whether the funding given to counties is equitably distributed. And the second relates to where intercounty matches are being played.
These are questions which apply to the Association as a whole, not just to Leinster.
The first issue was set out by the Westmeath footballer John Connellan in his recent letter – the issues he raised demand a proper answer at the highest levels of the GAA.
As for the second issue – home advantage – this was raised again in the aftermath of the Leinster final, with calls for Dublin’s All-Ireland semi-final against Cavan to be played at a neutral venue.
And of course Croke Park is de jure a neutral venue, while also being de facto the place where Dublin footballers play all their home league and championship matches.
What advantage does playing so many home matches confer on Dublin?
Academics from a range of different disciplines (economists, statisticians, mathematicians, psychologists and so on) have looked at home advantage in sport for some 50 years.
Although there is no consensus in these studies about precisely why home advantage matters, it is nonetheless broadly accepted that its “existence is well-established”; that is to say, in sports competitions, home teams ordinarily win more than 50% of matches.
For example, a 2005 article in the Journal of Sports Sciences examined long-term trends in home advantage in elite sport in America and England. Two academics – the Pollards – examined more than 400,000 games from:
The American and National Baseball Leagues (1876–2002); The National Hockey League (1917–2003); The National Football League (1933–2002); The National Basketball Association (1946–2003); All four levels of the Football League in England (1888–2003). There were variations in all the leagues across time and some sports had higher levels of home advantage than others but home advantage was demonstrably real.
In baseball, this is put at some 54% across almost all of the decades that have passed since the first professional baseball leagues were established in 1876. In the other sports, home advantage fluctuated from 55% to more than 70% in certain years – but it relatively consistently stood at around 60%.
In other competitions – for example in the Italian and Spanish soccer leagues which a study addressed in the mid-1980s – home advantage was put at 76.1% and 76.3%, respectively.
The question is repeatedly asked as to what factors were the causes for home advantage to matter.
The judgment of the Pollards here seems sensible: “There appear to be many causes for home advantage, each contributing a small amount and interacting with each other in ways that vary from sport to sport.”
For example, crowd effects, travel, familiarity with the surface, referee bias, and psychological factors have all been set out as factors. There is, of course, an overlap between some of those so disentangling them is a particularly thorny challenge.
Crowd effects and referee bias are obviously intertwined: a crowd is claimed to matter because of its effect in raising the performance of the home team relative to the away team and also to influence the officials to “subconsciously favour the home team”.
It is clearly the case that home advantage is essentially irrelevant when the gap between two teams is significant; where it may matter, however, is when there is a tight game. Across all sports, the evidence produces fascinating nuggets of information.
For instance, a play-by-play study of more than 16,000 NBA basketball games showed that the scoring rates of teams playing at home were consistently higher.
What is also of interest is that, if a pitch surface in a stadium is markedly different than that of other surfaces it, too, increases the impact of home advantage. The size of a pitch, the cut and nature of the grass, the speed of the ground – all of these things are practical aspects of play that are understood through familiarity.
Ultimately, the evidence across all major field sports is that home advantage matters.
And it appears that the Gael does not stand immune from this global phenomenon. A 2014 piece by Prof John Considine (UCC) on the brilliant sportseconomics.org website shows that win percentages for away teams in the three provincial football championships (Connacht is an outlier due to the presence of London and New York) in the 2008-11 period is between 33% and 44%.
That fits nicely within the global story of home advantage. We can dress this up any way we want, we can explain it and justify it, but the bottom line is that home advantage matters.
- Paul Rouse is professor of history in University College Dublin
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 17:55:02 GMT
It is ridiculous that people have to write articles explaining that home advantage counts. The only people in the history of sport who would argue otherwise are Dublin fans.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 4, 2020 19:45:29 GMT
It is ridiculous that people have to write articles explaining that home advantage counts. The only people in the history of sport who would argue otherwise are Dublin fans. To be fair to the Dubs fans, Annascaulieidie is in favour of neutral venues now.😋
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Post by dano on Dec 4, 2020 19:55:21 GMT
There was a time, in the not so distant past, when we used to be on here lauding the fact that Croke Park was like a home pitch for Kerry. Kerry need to start winning again. That's the only answer to this Dublin run of success. It nearly happened last year and WILL happen soon.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 4, 2020 22:16:12 GMT
There was a time, in the not so distant past, when we used to be on here lauding the fact that Croke Park was like a home pitch for Kerry. Kerry need to start winning again. That's the only answer to this Dublin run of success. It nearly happened last year and WILL happen soon. There’s 30 other counties looking for equity, it ain’t all about us and out desire to beat Dublin in croker. Some teams would like to be more competitive & have more of a level playing field
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 4, 2020 22:29:10 GMT
There was a time, in the not so distant past, when we used to be on here lauding the fact that Croke Park was like a home pitch for Kerry. Kerry need to start winning again. That's the only answer to this Dublin run of success. It nearly happened last year and WILL happen soon. There’s 30 other counties looking for equity, it ain’t all about us and out desire to beat Dublin in croker. Some teams would like to be more competitive & have more of a level playing field Well said.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 5, 2020 4:12:03 GMT
It is ridiculous that people have to write articles explaining that home advantage counts. The only people in the history of sport who would argue otherwise are Dublin fans. To be fair to the Dubs fans, Annascaulieidie is in favour of neutral venues now.😋 I think I said Cavan might be given a choice and they came out and said they wanted to play in Croke Park.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 5:05:35 GMT
To be fair to the Dubs fans, Annascaulieidie is in favour of neutral venues now.😋 I think I said Cavan might be given a choice and they came out and said they wanted to play in Croke Park. Cavan were given no choice so they obviously had to come out then and say they wanted to play in Croke Park. Their manager had said they wanted to play elsewhere already but that request was ignored by hq.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 5, 2020 7:44:50 GMT
I think I said Cavan might be given a choice and they came out and said they wanted to play in Croke Park. Cavan were given no choice. And you know this how?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 9:19:22 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 5, 2020 14:34:05 GMT
You know this "because they were not"? Come on. "Cavan Co Board would like to clarify that they absolutely and categorically have never considered, nor, have they any intention of applying for a venue change for the upcoming All Ireland Semi Final Fixture. We are honoured and look forward to playing the All Ireland Semi Final as is fixed by the CCC." You're dealing in speculation.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 5, 2020 14:45:58 GMT
Clearly something happened to quell Mickey Grahams desire for a neutral venue. Maybe the county board and Mickey decided that the players didnt need the distraction of a row or maybe they didnt want to poke the Dublin bear.
The article below is quite strong.
................................. Colm Keys
November 24 2020 02:30 AM
Cavan football manager Mickey Graham has questioned the need to stage their All-Ireland semi-final against Dublin on Saturday week in Croke Park when crowds are not a factor.
Graham said his preference would be to play the game at a "neutral" venue and not a venue that is like "their own back garden", such is the familiarity the All-Ireland champions have built up there.
The man behind Cavan's first Ulster football success in 23 years feels a switch of venue would "level the playing field a small bit", though his plea is likely to fall on deaf ears because, at the outset, the GAA made it clear that Croke Park would be used for All-Ireland semi-finals, irrespective of travel or overnights.
Graham acknowledged their task is going to be difficult enough without the venue presenting such a potential "disadvantage".
An All-Ireland football semi-final has only once been held outside Croke Park in the last 37 years when Mayo and Kerry went to the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick for their replay in 2014.
"With the year that is in it, no crowds allowed in, is there a need to go to it, that's my point?" he said.
"Would a nice neutral venue, somewhere different for a change, be any harm? For Dublin, that's like their own back garden, they are so used to playing there.
"A lot of our lads would never have been there before, it's a first time for them and it's a huge experience for them and it's definitely a disadvantage for us," he suggested.
"I'm sure we would like to play it in a different venue. For us to go to Croke Park itself the task is going to be huge, so it would be nice but the powers that be will decide that."
Neutral venues suitable to both Cavan and Dublin are few and far between. Páirc Tailteann in Navan no longer has floodlights which rules it out for an evening throw-in.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 5, 2020 15:00:22 GMT
I'd imagine he was told that the game was on in Croker no matter what & that attempts to change the venue would be an unnecessary and ultimately fruitless exertion of energy.
There was never any way that the GAA would change this game.
If you want to naively make the 'fairness' argument then you obviously haven't following the GAA that closely for the last decade as fairness sailed a long time ago.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 15:13:41 GMT
You know this "because they were not"? Come on. "Cavan Co Board would like to clarify that they absolutely and categorically have never considered, nor, have they any intention of applying for a venue change for the upcoming All Ireland Semi Final Fixture. We are honoured and look forward to playing the All Ireland Semi Final as is fixed by the CCC." You're dealing in speculation. So you think Cavan were given a choice?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 5, 2020 15:22:35 GMT
You know this "because they were not"? Come on. "Cavan Co Board would like to clarify that they absolutely and categorically have never considered, nor, have they any intention of applying for a venue change for the upcoming All Ireland Semi Final Fixture. We are honoured and look forward to playing the All Ireland Semi Final as is fixed by the CCC." You're dealing in speculation. So you think Cavan were given a choice? I think they expressed no interest in such a choice. We can probably agree they were not offered a choice.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 6, 2020 23:03:25 GMT
What stands out to me the most is that stat I saw from Tomás O’Sé. Dublin get €270 per registered player while the next highest amount received by a county is €23. That is an absolutely huge gap that I can see no possible reasoning for and it’s obviously extremely unfair. Surely there should be a clear rule that every county receives the same amount per registered player.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 7, 2020 3:37:19 GMT
Hey boys 'n' gals, what is going on here and indeed throughout the GAA community is what happens when when a wrong has been identified - we all have a different view. Ah nothing surprising about that but, well, let s get the show on the road here.
Now I am no smarter than the next person but I do have a background in addressing biggish enough issues, and yes, I have put forward solutions that worked, so here's my tuppenny bit.
Firstly understand the problem and why it came about. In this instance it has to do with global economics, i.e. Big corporations located in Dublin with the ensuing wealth and migration, this was always the case but it took a giant leap in the past say 20 years. At the same time the GAA saw other games as benefitting from the swelled disposable income and decided to invest so our amateur game wouldn't be left behind, throwing petrol on the fire with a knee jerk reaction by pumping money in.
Now taking a step back for a moment - to make a successful team you need lots of things - numbers of people, money, method, talent, consistency ..... there is a long list in the mix and every county will have varying degrees of each, some is nature driven while more is man made, i.e. uncontrollable and controllable.
Incidentally it is the uncontrollable that makes it exciting, i.e. great teams, vintage crops if you like. What happened here is he controllable was mismanaged and made the issue worse.
Now I know I am being ambitious in sorting this issue out in a few lines but this is what it all boils down to and it isn't as if people are silly and lack common sense - it's just that we get all tangled up.
Now looking at a solution and where it gets a bit complex - firstly there are numerous issues so there is no silver bullet. But there are things that can be done that will have a domino effect. Money is the first thing but as TO'6 said yesterday, there is no good throwing money at it - so you need a proper management routine, learning from what has succeeded, transferring that expertise to weaker counties.
The old chestnut that is Dublin's population will spread to the other counties and is indeed as a result of urbanisation, rural depopulation, e.g. a lot of South Kerry youth move to live in Killarney. This impacts seriously on the GAA as it is all about where you are from, unlike soccer and rugby and where players are traded. Incidentally, or not, there is evidence that the latter takes from the game, well it diminishes the spirit for one, so the 'parish rule' it is worth hanging onto.
If the initial moves were made then the situation might change a bit, bearing in mind that hurling isn't dominated by any one team, more by a handful, and that might be as good as it gets.
By coincidence what I suggested regarding the structure of competitions might have a role to play here, i.e. have say 3 All Ireland championship cups in a given year, so the first 8/10 knocked out play out an AI final, the the next 8/10 with the remaining 8/10 in a given year competing for Sam/Liam Mac - i.e. 3/4 Super 8 type structure with every team having chance of Sam/Liam.
I'd keep the provincial championships within this as it reinforces the local rivalry, the lifeblood of the 'parish rule' ethos. Personally I'd get rid of the back door as it takes the edge out of it and which favours stronger counties but the proposed plan would work wither way. The National League is not provincial or knockout so we'd also have contrast.
Long term youth in current weaker counties would feel more engaged and we'd have more Cavan football and Kerry hurling played in Croker, fewer mismatches, and more competitive games every Sunday.
Problem solved folks, now who's a pretty boy of a Sunday morning!
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 7, 2020 8:48:28 GMT
Annascaul This i assume is the post you are referring to in reply to my question as to what to do if the GAA you do not cut off the money or split up Dublin. How many All Irelands in the next 10 years for Dublin would it take to convince you that there is a problem? lets say they with 8 of the next 10. Would that be a issue for you? Would it be 'surrender' to discuss it. 'Surrender' from what exactly anyway? The GAA didnt start pumping in the money till 2007 when Jack McCaffrey, Ciaran KilkennyY, Mannion, McDaid etc were aged 14. They were all born in 1993. So the problem is only going to get worse. The only answer is to have 3 or 4 teams representing Dublin. A mistake people make in this conversation is looking at Dublin's success and saying it is down to money alone. Or similarly in trying to negate the above, trying to say there are factors as well as money, but failing, and saying instead that money isn't a factor at all. Both positions are incorrect. My feeling is that the GAA is right to spend money trying to get as many people as possible into GAA, but what perhaps we are seeing is that the Dublin County Board are getting a very easy ride indeed because monies they should be putting into games development are already allocated, and this allows them to have the best of everything for their senior side. They don't have to fundraise. They have bigger sponsorship deals. This is the easier ride. And it's difficult because we should be balancing fairness with the laudable goal of getting as many people as possible involved in GAA. I am loathe to saying that (because of money or otherwise) Dublin are some unbeatable dreadnought because it is tantamount to surrender, and, if you bring in money, denies a great side their dues, because whatever the difference that money makes, the Dublin side still has to go out and perform, etc., and I think it is very sour grapes to bring up money every five seconds. That would be my bias that would lead people to call me an Uncle Tom.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 7, 2020 10:19:39 GMT
Annascaul This i assume is the post you are referring to in reply to my question as to what to do if the GAA you do not cut off the money or split up Dublin. How many All Irelands in the next 10 years for Dublin would it take to convince you that there is a problem? lets say they with 8 of the next 10. Would that be a issue for you? Would it be 'surrender' to discuss it. 'Surrender' from what exactly anyway? The GAA didnt start pumping in the money till 2007 when Jack McCaffrey, Ciaran KilkennyY, Mannion, McDaid etc were aged 14. They were all born in 1993. So the problem is only going to get worse. The only answer is to have 3 or 4 teams representing Dublin. A mistake people make in this conversation is looking at Dublin's success and saying it is down to money alone. Or similarly in trying to negate the above, trying to say there are factors as well as money, but failing, and saying instead that money isn't a factor at all. Both positions are incorrect. My feeling is that the GAA is right to spend money trying to get as many people as possible into GAA, but what perhaps we are seeing is that the Dublin County Board are getting a very easy ride indeed because monies they should be putting into games development are already allocated, and this allows them to have the best of everything for their senior side. They don't have to fundraise. They have bigger sponsorship deals. This is the easier ride. And it's difficult because we should be balancing fairness with the laudable goal of getting as many people as possible involved in GAA. I am loathe to saying that (because of money or otherwise) Dublin are some unbeatable dreadnought because it is tantamount to surrender, and, if you bring in money, denies a great side their dues, because whatever the difference that money makes, the Dublin side still has to go out and perform, etc., and I think it is very sour grapes to bring up money every five seconds. That would be my bias that would lead people to call me an Uncle Tom. I have to hand it to you that you did foresee the Dublin juggernaut. I think there is already a problem but as I explain above I am loathe to attribute Dublin's success down to money alone, and so your first question, as I think there is already a problem, does not arise. I think splitting Dublin would be a travesty. Maybe it could be trialled? Maybe it wouldn't be the terrible thing I think it might be. Maybe Dublin split in the league as a trial? I think it would be a sad day if it came to it. I get annoyed when people attribute thoughts to what I didn't write and mea culpa I have done that to some degree with this surrender comment. To my mind, one has to factor in all of Dublin's advantages when one talks of surrender. They have population, travel, Croke Park, sponsorship, and no need to fundraise. Maybe I am a fool but in my opinion only the greater the victory to go up and beat them given all those factors. Kerry should have beaten Dublin last year and what a victory that would have been. In 2009, so many of the advantages were at play and it was great for Kerry to come up to Dublin and spank them in their back alley. I place great value in a Kerry team overcoming Dublin's advantages and abhor any notion that it is futile for teams to take on Dublin, even in their current incarnation. There is the argument that there is not a level playing field. There never will be would be my point. As I have said a few times now, I would pool sponsorship money to help weaker counties, and serious consideration must be given to looking at the senior Dublin team's expenditure. It does not feel right that the DCC do not have the same pressures to fund as a Mayo or Kerry. We have a great tension at the heart of the GAA between elitism, where players want to be the best that they can be, and enjoyment and recreation. It was great to see elite players with their clubs this year and perhaps there is some space to make IC football slightly less professional and slightly less serious... although as I write this I am not sure how that aids the current situation with Dublin. I guess it is about giving weaker counties a better chance of reaching high standards but that is also a contradiction... I am always happy to be proven wrong when my fears are misplaced. So if I were in your position, I would be praying to be wrong, I would be praying that splitting Dublin is not the answer. I would be delighted to be wrong. But I am not in your position and so I greatly fear that I may be wrong and in that case would only hope that my fears about Dublin being split is misplaced and that the GAA is only stronger if I am wrong on top of wrong. In my world view, completely contradicting the above on elitism, I think there is an onus on top teams to do better. Remember Kerry and Donegal got knocked out this year. Not Dublin's fault. Many weaker counties setting up to lose. Maybe 10% of whatever Gilroy was saying last night is true and e.g. the GAA should install professionals in county boards. But some things are untenable. Dublin playing their home games in Croke Park is untenable. Dublin CB not having to fundraise is untenable. Dublin streaking miles ahead is untenable (although I would still note the narrow margins upon which the 7 AIFs were won). I think I would like to reiterate my point that we should be careful not to attribute all or none of Dublin's successes down to money. What that team has achieved should not be so diminished.
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Post by kerry97 on Dec 7, 2020 11:12:24 GMT
Its about time professionalism was seriously discussed and how that would look.
If people want to start gerrymandering maps then we can at least have a serious discussion on professionalism and how that may look.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 7, 2020 15:24:19 GMT
Gosh that was a revelation by McStay on TSG - that the GAA doesn't cover travel expenses to Croker and that is so so wrong. I am now wondering if the GAA even wants a level playing field.
Gilroy was uninteresting on TSG - saying there was no Gaelic football in parts of Dublin, there is no Gaelic football in much of Kilkenny but they don't get paid to address it and every county has that issue. His notion of merging counties to catch up to Dublin is a nut job, did I hear him say the combinations could change each year to suit. Ah maybe he felt obliged to say something but this was TSG where people are tuned in and take things seriously.
I didn't think much of Andy McEntee's idea either - ah maybe just had to say something and didn't have the opportunity to study it.
TSG also mentioned CEOs, Chief Executives for each county - no good without cash and only needed when it is a big business, like it is in Dublin.
99% of what will be spoken on this will be stuff that people haven't thought through and my fear is that it will falsify the outcome. The GAA do take it all in and it does form the basis of decisions. They need to get advice from consultancies in this area to avoid a disaster here and there are plenty who I am sure would be happy to help.
I'd be critical of my own notions but what I outlined re culminating with 3/4 groups of super 8 type structure is about the best solution - McEntee wants to drop provincial finals, ah divert the Dubs maybe.
The future of the GAA is at stake here and they, we, need to get it right. Corvid showed us what life is like without them so we must ensure we do all the right things, bearing in mind there is no perfection and the challenges are immense, we are playing against an eternal wind, what with rural depopulation, etc. It will also kill Dublin's hard won success so all have skin in the game.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 7, 2020 15:36:49 GMT
In reality the county system is dead and it just depends where we go from here. Probably, disgusting as it sounds, we are looking at about maybe 16 professional teams across the country with 2/3 being from Dublin & the rest spread across the other counties.
How these are decided, I have no idea but we are not going back to a situation where we have 32 counties who are even remotely competitive. That day is dead.
It was mentioned in one of the many strategic reports a few years ago that the club game become the bedrock of the game again & it will be the bedrock of the amateur game.
The top level will become professional & let’s hope Kerry Group are still willing to stump up to help us
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 7, 2020 15:41:53 GMT
How these are decided, I have no idea but we are not going back to a situation where we have 32 counties who are even remotely competitive. That day is dead. When was there ever a situation that 32 counties were remotely competitive?
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 7, 2020 15:47:54 GMT
Annascaul This i assume is the post you are referring to in reply to my question as to what to do if the GAA you do not cut off the money or split up Dublin. How many All Irelands in the next 10 years for Dublin would it take to convince you that there is a problem? lets say they with 8 of the next 10. Would that be a issue for you? Would it be 'surrender' to discuss it. 'Surrender' from what exactly anyway? The GAA didnt start pumping in the money till 2007 when Jack McCaffrey, Ciaran KilkennyY, Mannion, McDaid etc were aged 14. They were all born in 1993. So the problem is only going to get worse. The only answer is to have 3 or 4 teams representing Dublin. I have to hand it to you that you did foresee the Dublin juggernaut. I think there is already a problem but as I explain above I am loathe to attribute Dublin's success down to money alone, and so your first question, as I think there is already a problem, does not arise. I think splitting Dublin would be a travesty. Maybe it could be trialled? Maybe it wouldn't be the terrible thing I think it might be. Maybe Dublin split in the league as a trial? I think it would be a sad day if it came to it. I get annoyed when people attribute thoughts to what I didn't write and mea culpa I have done that to some degree with this surrender comment. To my mind, one has to factor in all of Dublin's advantages when one talks of surrender. They have population, travel, Croke Park, sponsorship, and no need to fundraise. Maybe I am a fool but in my opinion only the greater the victory to go up and beat them given all those factors. Kerry should have beaten Dublin last year and what a victory that would have been. In 2009, so many of the advantages were at play and it was great for Kerry to come up to Dublin and spank them in their back alley. I place great value in a Kerry team overcoming Dublin's advantages and abhor any notion that it is futile for teams to take on Dublin, even in their current incarnation. There is the argument that there is not a level playing field. There never will be would be my point. As I have said a few times now, I would pool sponsorship money to help weaker counties, and serious consideration must be given to looking at the senior Dublin team's expenditure. It does not feel right that the DCC do not have the same pressures to fund as a Mayo or Kerry. We have a great tension at the heart of the GAA between elitism, where players want to be the best that they can be, and enjoyment and recreation. It was great to see elite players with their clubs this year and perhaps there is some space to make IC football slightly less professional and slightly less serious... although as I write this I am not sure how that aids the current situation with Dublin. I guess it is about giving weaker counties a better chance of reaching high standards but that is also a contradiction... I am always happy to be proven wrong when my fears are misplaced. So if I were in your position, I would be praying to be wrong, I would be praying that splitting Dublin is not the answer. I would be delighted to be wrong. But I am not in your position and so I greatly fear that I may be wrong and in that case would only hope that my fears about Dublin being split is misplaced and that the GAA is only stronger if I am wrong on top of wrong. In my world view, completely contradicting the above on elitism, I think there is an onus on top teams to do better. Remember Kerry and Donegal got knocked out this year. Not Dublin's fault. Many weaker counties setting up to lose. Maybe 10% of whatever Gilroy was saying last night is true and e.g. the GAA should install professionals in county boards. But some things are untenable. Dublin playing their home games in Croke Park is untenable. Dublin CB not having to fundraise is untenable. Dublin streaking miles ahead is untenable (although I would still note the narrow margins upon which the 7 AIFs were won). I think I would like to reiterate my point that we should be careful not to attribute all or none of Dublin's successes down to money. What that team has achieved should not be so diminished. Thank you for taking the time with that. You are not a man for writing long ones. I am sorry to say that sheer logic forces me to say that the options i see now are; having a few teams in Dublin, amalgamating counties going professional as onlykerry said in the other thread. I dont see this as surrender. Its just reality. And it does sadden me. They say the key to coping with life is constantly accept that you must let go of things you hold dear. I railed against the way the GAA was heading as i cared. But i am at acceptance now and i am not too bothered any more. At least the hurling still thrills.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 7, 2020 15:51:21 GMT
I'd split Dublin in a thousand pieces before merging counties.
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