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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 21, 2020 20:23:54 GMT
Cork missed chances too and we started with 2 forwards who might score. You have to allow for at least one of your scorers to have an off day & that’s why most teams will pick 4 scoring threats to start & more to come off the bench. We didn’t pick the right team to start, have an adequate bench, have a coherent gameplan & worst of all, our management showed an inability to change it. You could say, without any hint of exaggeration, that they got everything wrong that they could get wrong. If I was that bad at my job then I’d be shown the door Not disagreeing with you massively here but it has been a long time since Kerry picked 4 scorers to start especially if you don’t regard Seanie as one We started with 2 lads who are a threat from play & then put together a gameplan whereby they had to drop back inside their own half and then make up 70 yards to try get a score. It was never going to work, it didn’t work and yet we didn’t change it
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 21, 2020 20:24:41 GMT
Not 1 player in either Mayo or Kerry has a bad word to say about the man. What those that tell you? Not much Players generally don’t say bad things about any manager or coach Well many spoke highly of him, If they had a negative opinion then they would have said nothing. Honestly I'd like to see PK step down after that shambles.
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Post by taggert on Nov 21, 2020 20:34:48 GMT
We conceded v little scores and chances in the 70 mins plus ET. We created 30+ scoring chances. We had leaders on the pitch making inexcusable decisions repeatedly. I think you are overlooking this conveniently.
I don't believe we have perfected a system and a way of playing by any stretch but I do believe this is a team of adults who need to take responsibility and set standards. You are talking as if the players are 8 year olds. They can and do talk to management, disagree with management and define and execute game plans collectively.
In the drawn All Irl final we got our best players the chances - Seanie, PaulG and David. Sadly only Seanie delivered. Against Cork, Brosnan, Clifford and Killian all had at least 5 scoring chances each also.
What would you have done differently?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 21, 2020 20:44:08 GMT
We conceded v little scores and chances in the 70 mins plus ET. We created 30+ scoring chances. We had leaders on the pitch making inexcusable decisions repeatedly. I think you are overlooking this conveniently. I don't believe we have perfected a system and a way of playing by any stretch but I do believe this is a team of adults who need to take responsibility and set standards. You are talking as if the players are 8 year olds. They can and do talk to management, disagree with management and define and execute game plans collectively. In the drawn All Irl final we got our best players the chances - Seanie, PaulG and David. Sadly only Seanie delivered. Against Cork, Brosnan, Clifford and Killian all had at least 5 scoring chances each also. What would you have done differently? I’m not excusing the players, they executed a terrible gameplan very poorly. I’d have started at least one more attacking option, starting Begley was idiotic. I’d have detailed Clifford & Brosnan to constantly stay inside 30 yard if the cork goal & not waste energy tracking. I’d have started with at least one runner capable of carrying the ball from midfield & creating problems for the opposition defence. If O brien wasn’t fit to start then get Dara Moynihan to try it as dropping everyone back & then tryin to make up 70 yards was never really a workable plan. We needed more scoring option on the bench, we only had one in Spillane, and rather than take Brosnan off id have left him on and give us an extra scoring option. I’d not have brought Tommy on, as he was lucky to be getting in the KOR team by the end of the year and should have been nowhere near the panel, not to mind getting minutes. I can’t understand how we wanted a game where players were expected to make powerful lung busting runs from deep yet we left out o brien & jack barry I could go on
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 21, 2020 20:52:58 GMT
And since someone made a comparison with Dublin earlier, they started with 4 serious scoring options with another 4 on the bench.
They didn’t cower in team selection and put all their energy into trying to defend 1 and 2 point leads and all against a better team than Cork
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 21:05:45 GMT
Not much Players generally don’t say bad things about any manager or coach Well many spoke highly of him, If they had a negative opinion then they would have said nothing. Honestly I'd like to see PK step down after that shambles. And who would you get to replace him
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Post by taggert on Nov 21, 2020 21:06:05 GMT
Fair enough. The one person who didnt start and should have started for me (and should every game) is Jack Sherwood. His decision making is very good, always creates forward momentum and hit Maguire so hard he had to go off.
I understand Jamesie and Geaney were nowhere near ready, hence why 1 shooter, KS, was on the bench. O'Brien proved when he came on he wasnt fit enough. That was a bad blow. Also, Begley was flying in training and if he shot low and hard instead of body height, would we have said his inclusion was a masterstroke?
Cork pushed both midfielders left and right and combined with the conditions, they blocked Murphy and White runs at source (Maguire, incidentally was whistled at least 6 times for fouls but I think still escaped the ultimate wrath of the ref.). Our failure was that our central dup, Diarmuid and Sean both played very very poorly and it mwant Corks midfielders could stay wide.
I do think our system needs tweaking to win All Irelands - the shooters need to be closest to goal but still must defend; we need more from the half forward line as they are they to the transition but who would have thought SoSe would be so poor; and we need to find out who starts and who finishes for Jacks Barry and Sherwood and Diarmuid.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Nov 21, 2020 21:07:53 GMT
Not disagreeing with you massively here but it has been a long time since Kerry picked 4 scorers to start especially if you don’t regard Seanie as one We started with 2 lads who are a threat from play & then put together a gameplan whereby they had to drop back inside their own half and then make up 70 yards to try get a score. It was never going to work, it didn’t work and yet we didn’t change it Nail on head I think. And the ‘sacking’ of Buckley now looks like an ego trip that had no merit in reality. Agree with RoyalKerryFan...time for PK to consider his position or have it considered for him...
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 21, 2020 21:28:23 GMT
Fair enough. The one person who didnt start and should have started for me (and should every game) is Jack Sherwood. His decision making is very good, always creates forward momentum and hit Maguire so hard he had to go off. I understand Jamesie and Geaney were nowhere near ready, hence why 1 shooter, KS, was on the bench. O'Brien proved when he came on he wasnt fit enough. That was a bad blow. Also, Begley was flying in training and if he shot low and hard instead of body height, would we have said his inclusion was a masterstroke? Cork pushed both midfielders left and right and combined with the conditions, they blocked Murphy and White runs at source (Maguire, incidentally was whistled at least 6 times for fouls but I think still escaped the ultimate wrath of the ref.). Our failure was that our central dup, Diarmuid and Sean both played very very poorly and it mwant Corks midfielders could stay wide. I do think our system needs tweaking to win All Irelands - the shooters need to be closest to goal but still must defend; we need more from the half forward line as they are they to the transition but who would have thought SoSe would be so poor; and we need to find out who starts and who finishes for Jacks Barry and Sherwood and Diarmuid. I countered 12 fouls by maguire across the game, I couldn’t understand how he got away with it. Sherwood needed to start if we wanted to play a game where we alternated between powerful carries & exerting mature control. That is essentially exactly what he is good at, another poor selection call. If Jameso & Geaney weren’t fit then pick other attacking options
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 21, 2020 21:55:59 GMT
I wonder would Donie Buckley put his hat in the ring for manager when the next vacancy opens up.
Under Jack and PK it didnt work out and i am not getting into why that was as i dont know.
I agree with Taggert that great players think their way through games and do not make the same mistake again.
I am still totally and utterly stunned as the manner Kerry gave possession away to Cork twice for the last two possessions that led to 1.01. Not so much that it happened but that it keeps happening.
Last week the Galway hurling keeper screwed up a ball that led to Hogans goal. He then immediately pucked out and KK were in for another goal and the game turned in an instant.
Today he had a puckout in injury time with his team a point ahead. He lamped it 90 yards down field and out over the sideline. Exactly the right thing to do. This allowed Galway reset for the lineball which took 30 seconds to take. Galway won possession from the line ball that are usually 50 50 anyway. Galway have leaarned how to close out tight games.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Nov 21, 2020 22:08:11 GMT
We started with 2 lads who are a threat from play & then put together a gameplan whereby they had to drop back inside their own half and then make up 70 yards to try get a score. It was never going to work, it didn’t work and yet we didn’t change it Nail on head I think. And the ‘sacking’ of Buckley now looks like an ego trip that had no merit in reality. Agree with RoyalKerryFan...time for PK to consider his position or have it considered for him... God lads for a fella none of us have seen in action at training unless ye were up a tree in Castlebar or Currans,ye seem to know a lot about how Donie Buckley works in training.
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Post by john4 on Nov 21, 2020 22:20:23 GMT
Nail on head I think. And the ‘sacking’ of Buckley now looks like an ego trip that had no merit in reality. Agree with RoyalKerryFan...time for PK to consider his position or have it considered for him... God lads for a fella none of us have seen in action at training unless ye were up a tree in Castlebar or Currans,ye seem to know a lot about how Donie Buckley works in training. Here's a sample of DB in action, If I and our team had unlimited access to DB I wouldn't want to lose him.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 21, 2020 22:26:58 GMT
Well many spoke highly of him, If they had a negative opinion then they would have said nothing. Honestly I'd like to see PK step down after that shambles. And who would you get to replace him The man he removed. It's not the losing to Cork or Dublin last year. It's the tactics and the fear and lack of belief.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 22:28:12 GMT
You cannot argue with donies track record
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 22:33:35 GMT
And who would you get to replace him The man he removed. It's not the losing to Cork or Dublin last year. It's the tactics and the fear and lack of belief. Sure why not. It would be great to see. I was told by a lad in the know last year that donie only really got involved after the cork game and then was totally ignored for the replay. It is no coincidence that Kerry’s best performances occurred between these two games.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 21, 2020 23:43:32 GMT
And who would you get to replace him The man he removed. It's not the losing to Cork or Dublin last year. It's the tactics and the fear and lack of belief. Such a u turn after saying Kerry were the real deal when they beat the Donegal b team
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 21, 2020 23:56:40 GMT
The man he removed. It's not the losing to Cork or Dublin last year. It's the tactics and the fear and lack of belief. Such a u turn after saying Kerry were the real deal when they beat the Donegal b team Yeah I was wrong and in a world that is absolutely miserable at the minute Mick I got carried away looking forward to something that didn't materialise.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 22, 2020 0:10:40 GMT
Big day for Tipp, I am giving them a chance anyway!
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 22, 2020 10:19:50 GMT
Such a u turn after saying Kerry were the real deal when they beat the Donegal b team Yeah I was wrong and in a world that is absolutely miserable at the minute Mick I got carried away looking forward to something that didn't materialise. But are you continuing in the same vein now calling for PK to resign after losing a game where nearly all of the starting forwards from the drawn final last year were either off form, not fully fit or unavailable through injury?
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 22, 2020 13:52:02 GMT
Yeah I was wrong and in a world that is absolutely miserable at the minute Mick I got carried away looking forward to something that didn't materialise. But are you continuing in the same vein now calling for PK to resign after losing a game where nearly all of the starting forwards from the drawn final last year were either off form, not fully fit or unavailable through injury? Yeah I put too much stock in the two remaining league games. In hindsight looking back at ths tactics in last years final as well and then that shambles against Cork is enough for me. I said back when DB was removed that it was a disgrace and that I hoped it would not come back to haunt us and it did. How anyone can defend that set up when we feared a division 3 side is honestly beyond me.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Nov 22, 2020 14:16:21 GMT
Tipp forwards are very clinical so far
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kot
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Post by kot on Nov 22, 2020 14:26:21 GMT
A damning indictment of the kerry set up. Even if cork do turn this around, its a disgrace how a kerry team with that talent went up and played with fear.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 22, 2020 14:35:30 GMT
A damning indictment of the kerry set up. Even if cork do turn this around, its a disgrace how a kerry team with that talent went up and played with fear. No fear in Tipp. They are playing some lovely football.
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Post by greengold35 on Nov 22, 2020 15:11:13 GMT
Tipp forwards are very clinical so far Cork played their All Ireland final against Kerry - fair play to Tipp.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 22, 2020 15:15:17 GMT
Brilliant from Tipp. Delighted for them.
Thank God for the waterbreak in the second half! They steadied the ship then.
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Post by taggert on Nov 22, 2020 15:16:35 GMT
Tipp forwards are very clinical so far Cork played their All Ireland final against Kerry - fair play to Tipp. Well done to Tipp - well deserved. Confirming what most of us have been saying here - this is a distinctly ordinary Cork side. BOTH the Kerry management and players will feel even worse today.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 15:17:57 GMT
Congrats to Tipp, great scenes
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 22, 2020 15:18:55 GMT
Well done Tipp.
Thought they might win.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Nov 22, 2020 15:20:49 GMT
It's hard to not find that uplifting.
85 years is a long time.
Well done Tipp.
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Post by gaelicden on Nov 22, 2020 15:21:02 GMT
The inquisition in Kerry will be massive this winter, but this is Tipperary's day, and congrats to them. I'm pretty sure there was a vision in Tipp that they would be in an all Ireland final by 2020, well they're one game away
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