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Post by Ballyfireside on May 2, 2020 22:12:14 GMT
Havent' been on here for a few days, with regard to players having access to pitches it's difficult to police 24/7 but I'm sure that as in my club's case the players have been told to stay away. The positioning of our pitch means that neighbours are constantly ringing officials to tell of gangs of youngsters on the pitch. Unfortunately in our case they're there to have drinking parties in the dugouts. Any time I pass I drop in and check it out, the guards are also including it in their regular rounds. The insurance states clearly that player injury scheme is suspended for the shutdown so any training done is at players risk. On the issue of club resumption I really can't see how social distancing can be properly adhered to , the dressing room set up in most places wouldn't be conducive. You're talking 40 odd people per team never mind officials for clubs and way beyond that for county panels. Much as I'd love to be back watching Kerry this summer , I can't see it and I think the idea of behind closed doors is bonkers, it goes against everything that is natural to us. KD said in his Laochra Gael that the sea of green and gold meant so much in 2014 even though half of them were Donegal. Never was a truer word said and that is the reality from the coalface - one doesn't have to be an expert on viruses to know we are in sit-tight time, it is easy for me to say that as I'd operate solo thee days anyway - yes, at my own wee desk doin' a biteen of writing 'n' scribing. A football match was my vent but wait I can - God bless anyone who is finding this hard, and hard it is - you'd want the patience of a saint and a million other characteristics. My personal affirmation/quote of today - Only the insane don't get mad in a crisis
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Post by Mickmack on May 3, 2020 8:46:00 GMT
Clubs are the bread and butter of the Gaa everything else should follow. Without volunteers and local sponsors the Gaa would not exist. Clubs should be and always be priority over inter county. On games behind closed doors with conditions, it looks very hard to see how a game of football can be played without break social distance rule. You wont find any argument from me on the clubs being the bread and butter of the GAA. Do you believe that it would be easier at club level to organise and manage the strict regime of test-isolate-play that may be needed to protect players. Will your average club have access to priority testing which will surely be needed. I would have thought all of that would be more manageable with a small group of about 40 people per county rather than per club.
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Post by Galway breeze on May 3, 2020 10:01:06 GMT
I am with you Mickmack on the feasibility of clubs funding testing and controlling the virus in comparison to inter County. But why would the County board see that the inter county teams are funded and not the clubs? Where did you get n40 from when you add all the inter county players, medical, development squads, county liaison, catering, media and management your looking at well over 1000 involved so the comparison is very similar to club bar financial gains.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on May 3, 2020 11:19:47 GMT
When the clubs go back playing matches the players aren't going to be tested before or in the days leading up to games. Am I right?
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Post by sandradee on May 3, 2020 16:56:15 GMT
Mick, the average amount of supporters attending county league games is relatively small, the same faces at every home game with only the diehards traveling to all away games. The lower division the less in attendance. Social distancing not a problem. I understand many of the posters here only follow the county team,
Regarding the players are you talking about the taking of temperatures or the standard worldwide Real-Time Polymerase Chain Reaction test (RT-PCR)? What knowledge do you have of the RT-PCR test? What knowledge do you have of Exosomes and in fact viruses itself and what is the difference? What about the microbiome and the mitachondrial? Without full knowledge of all of this and a lot more no governing bodies or people of influence should not be allowed dictate to the people. There is far too much at stake.
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Post by Mickmack on May 3, 2020 20:57:03 GMT
Mick, the average amount of supporters attending county league games is relatively small, the same faces at every home game with only the diehards traveling to all away games. The lower division the less in attendance. Social distancing not a problem. I understand many of the posters here only follow the county team, Regarding the players are you talking about the taking of temperatures or the standard worldwide Real-Time Polymerase Chain Reaction test (RT-PCR)? What knowledge do you have of the RT-PCR test? What knowledge do you have of Exosomes and in fact viruses itself and what is the difference? What about the microbiome and the mitachondrial? Without full knowledge of all of this and a lot more no governing bodies or people of influence should not be allowed dictate to the people. There is far too much at stake. I am asking questions that i dont kniw the answer to. Thats all.
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Post by Mickmack on May 3, 2020 20:58:37 GMT
Club chief fears legal issues if GAA players are ‘guinea pigs’
By Larry Ryan Follow @ryanlarry Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 07:41 PM Some club GAA players fear they will be the guinea pigs if sport is to restart as outlined in the Government’s plan to reopen the country, says Club Players Association chairman Micheál Briody.
Stage four of the plan proposes that team sports such as soccer and GAA could resume from July 20, as long as limitations are placed on the numbers of spectators and social distancing can be maintained.
Close physical contact sports such as rugby, boxing and wrestling would be allowed from August 10.
But virologist Dr Cillian de Gascún, part of the National Public Health Emergency Team, has since told the Irish Times that team sports “are going to be in a very difficult position”.
“I don’t see it being something we could recommend from a public health perspective without social distancing, and assuming we are not going to have an anti-viral therapy or a vaccine for 12 to 18 months, it is difficult to recommend,” said Dr de Gascún.
Speaking on the Irish Examiner Sports podcast, Briody says the confusion has left some players fearful.
“The overriding emotion we got this weekend is fear of being used as guinea pigs. I don’t think the GAA are doing it, but I think maybe it was misinterpreted from the Taoiseach’s announcement, that GAA will go back before rugby, and at club level.
“The conversation has always been around the attendees at the games. That they’ll sort social distancing for the crowd, but who are the guinea pigs, the club players? That has to be sorted out and thought about. We have got to consult with the medical professionals and see what is a reasonable risk and take the decision on a risk assessment basis.
“The nature of the game is it’s up close and personal. You can incorporate social distancing in a dressing room. But you cannot do it when the referee blows the whistle.”
And Briody fears there could be insurance and legal repercussions if a player becomes infected.
“It’s not just about the players here. The players generally speaking wouldn’t be in a vulnerable category. But if they happen to contract Covid on the field of play and pass it on to a vulnerable or elderly person and they become critically ill or pass away, then potentially you have an insurance issue. Is it possible here that the GAA or any sporting organisation could be sued because they didn’t take the duty of care they owe to their members?”
Briody feels a decision should be made in the next six weeks about whether GAA should be played this year.
“There may be merit in looking at the practicalities in Croke Park soon and saying look, scratch 2020. Because with all the uncertainty you’re going to have intercounty and club players just dangling on. At some stage, I appreciate not yet, but at some stage in the next, I would say, six weeks, that call needs to be made.
“If I was Tom Ryan or John Horan I would be making contact with Tony Holohan and saying, if we are to go back, what are you going to expect of us? What are we going to have to do from a playing point of view? And if we think it’s going to compromise our games and if there have to be any changes, then Croke Park and Central Council are going to have to decide what's best for the games. And if that’s not to have any games at all, I think (decide) sooner rather than later.
“We’re going to poll our members in the next week or two and ask what are they prepared to do. What’s your fears, who wants to play and who doesn't? And I think the GPA should do something similar. If the players aren’t safe and if they aren’t prepared to play, the sooner we know that the better.”
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Post by sandradee on May 3, 2020 21:44:39 GMT
Mick, I'm not for one second saying that you are dictating. We are all being dictated to by those that seem to have an agenda. It most certainly is not science based. Just saying.
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Post by Mickmack on May 3, 2020 22:24:25 GMT
I am with you Mickmack on the feasibility of clubs funding testing and controlling the virus in comparison to inter County. But why would the County board see that the inter county teams are funded and not the clubs? Where did you get n40 from when you add all the inter county players, medical, development squads, county liaison, catering, media and management your looking at well over 1000 involved so the comparison is very similar to club bar financial gains. 1000 per county!!! Hardly
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Post by Galway breeze on May 4, 2020 7:45:17 GMT
Yes Mickmack go add up the numbers. Previous post mentions dictating post on the forum probably a harsh comment but the point that this forum is inter county focused is very true. It is the same old few posting on the forum that keep on about the inter county seen. Talking to some exiles and pundits and their views are the Kerry has lost the clubs because the focus is on county level. The whole inter county has become an imitation of Provincial rugby set ups. There is an opportunity now to pull the reigns and go back to the foundation and rebuild a steady amateur sport with good FOOTBALL PLAYERS coming out of every clubs. Club is the foundation of a good structure and the top will shake without clubs.
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Post by daveharrin on May 4, 2020 8:48:03 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on May 4, 2020 9:05:36 GMT
Yes Mickmack go add up the numbers. Previous post mentions dictating post on the forum probably a harsh comment but the point that this forum is inter county focused is very true. It is the same old few posting on the forum that keep on about the inter county seen. Talking to some exiles and pundits and their views are the Kerry has lost the clubs because the focus is on county level. The whole inter county has become an imitation of Provincial rugby set ups. There is an opportunity now to pull the reigns and go back to the foundation and rebuild a steady amateur sport with good FOOTBALL PLAYERS coming out of every clubs. Club is the foundation of a good structure and the top will shake without clubs. I posted up an article on this thread a few weeks ago about what a professional German soccer club would have to do to get back playing.... a rigour of 240 people tested before each game. I would be amazed if its 1000 for each intercounty GAA team. From what its worth, i believe the club is the most important unit in the GAA so you neednt be lecturing me on that. There is a greater chance of player safety at intercounty level in this pandemic in my opinion. My point is purely on player safety. Lets put that before the question of what is more important, club or county. There would be no county teams without the clubs. Any fool can see that.
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Post by Mickmack on May 4, 2020 9:21:06 GMT
We all want a Championship but we want to live to see it Eamonn Sweeney
GAA must not allow itself to become the scapegoat if there's a resurgence in virus
Stall the digger. Cool the jets. Take it easy for God's sake.
The optimistic projections about the GAA season following Friday's release of the Government's roadmap for lifting the Covid-19 lockdown are wildly ill-founded.
Headlines like, 'GAA set to resume on July 20', accompanied Leo Varadkar's announcement that GAA and soccer teams would be permitted to resume activities on that date. There was talk of a club season in August and September followed by inter-county championships in winter with crowds present for the latter stages.
It all seems a bit previous. For one thing the roadmap is to some extent an aspirational document which depends on a best-case scenario. It was, after all, announced at the same time as the revelation that the anticipated lifting of certain restrictions on May 4 would be postponed for a fortnight because things hadn't gone to plan.
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There's no guarantee everything in the roadmap will happen when planned either. The optimists talk as though the virus has almost been suppressed here. But there were 330 new cases yesterday and 343 the day before that. Covid-19 is hanging in there. GAA and soccer will be allowed to resume on July 20, the roadmap states, "but only where limitations can be placed on the number of spectators and where social distancing can be maintained."
This seems unclear. If the 'social distancing' applies only to the spectators, why aren't the players included? And if it applies to the players as well, how on earth can they maintain social distancing? It will be impossible. In that case the July 20 return date is meaningless.
Rugby won't be allowed to return till August 10 as it's classed as a 'close physical contact sport' along with boxing. Presumably, the road cartographers were thinking of rucks, mauls and scrums. Yet Gaelic football and hurling's man-to-man marking systems mean players spend an awful lot of time in close proximity to each other, much more than happens in soccer.
The Bundesliga hopes to be the first European major league back in action by having all its players tested. It seems a feasible target given Germany's massive effort in this area.
The same option is not available to the GAA which plans to resume with several weeks of club action. There's no way the state will be able to test the numbers of players involved there.
A testing programme which would cover inter-county panels is at least conceivable. But testing players at senior, intermediate, junior and underage level in every county in Ireland? Not going to happen.
One big difference between GAA players and the professional soccer players currently contemplating a return to action in Germany and England is that the latter can, if necessary, be contained in a 'bubble' minimising their contact with the rest of society. This is not an option for club GAA players, most of whom hold down full-time jobs. Should they contract the virus during a game, it will be a community rather than a sporting problem.
In an ideal world I'd love to see the GAA back in action on July 20. It would provide a national morale boost. But, as things stand, a resumption might involve the GAA playing Russian Roulette with the health of its players.
There's quite a bit of 'We have to get on with our lives. We can't be living in fear,' talk doing the rounds at the moment. I recall plenty of similar macho blather at the start of March before the news from Italy plunged the country into near panic.
It makes no more sense now than it did then. The situation in England shows the horrendous results of taking a 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' line with a deadly virus.
There seems to be a battle going on at the moment between the National Public Health Emergency Health Team and certain members of the Government who feel the restrictions should be lifted more quickly. The gung-ho cabal apparently includes Simon Coveney, Josepha Madigan and Shane Ross, all of whom would play on the right in a political football game and are pro-business.
On matters of public health most citizens would trust Tony Holohan ahead of those three horsemen of the apocalypse. Yet economic considerations will probably force many people back to work before the health experts think it's advisable and before they themselves are comfortable with the idea.
There are signs that the full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes brigade would like to enlist the GAA on their side of the argument. Last weekend you had some kite-flying about the possibility of a testing programme for inter-county players which was rebuffed by outgoing GAA president John Horan.
Hopped
On Friday night's 'Late Late Show', the Taoiseach mentioned the possibility of an All-Ireland championship taking place this year after all. Varadkar's position was news to the GAA who hadn't heard from him before he hopped that particular ball with Ryan Tubridy.
The GAA needs to tread very carefully. It only needs one cluster or one high-profile player becoming seriously ill after a club match for the restart to blow up in the Association's face. The opprobrium heaped on the Cheltenham Festival shows the PR disaster which can ensue when an organisation carries the can for a political decision.
Nothing would be worse for the GAA than becoming the scapegoat if there's a resurgence of the virus. Players rather than politicians must have the final say on when to return. The GAA needs to be guided by its own roadmap.
A poll of GPA and Club Players Association members asking how they feel about an imminent return to action would be a good start. Maybe they'll agree with the Wexford players who Davy Fitzgerald says were "buzzing" at the prospect of playing championship hurling in August. Or maybe they'll have more sense. Let's find out.
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Post by Galway breeze on May 4, 2020 12:24:44 GMT
Again Mickmack you have read wrong. I did not say 1000 personal per TEAM I said when you take all inter county players, medical, development squads, management, media, liaison staff and others you have 1000 personal involved at inter county level.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 13:16:28 GMT
Again Mickmack you have read wrong. I did not say 1000 personal per TEAM I said when you take all inter county players, medical, development squads, management, media, liaison staff and others you have 1000 personal involved at inter county level. I read it wrong also then. MickMacks point is quite logical
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Post by goonised on May 4, 2020 16:04:18 GMT
The logic of everything is there wont be a ball kicked until the 2metre rule is consigned to history and that wont be this year. So enjoy the break until late spring 2021.
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Post by buck02 on May 4, 2020 19:56:17 GMT
Something else to bear in mind is that Ireland and the UK are likely to have different 'roadmaps' and our friends in the North may not be able to train or play games when we start in the rest of the country.
We were also laughing over the weekend saying that the 2 metre rule wouldn't suit a lot of the northern teams the way they set up at the back.
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Post by Mickmack on May 4, 2020 22:40:10 GMT
David Gough: I wouldn't referee games without vaccine
High-profile referee David Gough says that as things stand he would not be willing to take charge of games until a vaccine for Covid-19 was available.
The GAA season has been put on hold by the pandemic but the Government road-map announced last Friday proposed that games could resume from 20 July - with limitations on the numbers of spectators and where social distancing can be maintained.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar suggested that that means there could yet be behind-closed-doors football and hurling Championships but players and officials alike are concerned at how that would work in what are amateur contact sports.
"It's my decision whether I go back. I'm a volunteer within the Association like everyone else," last year's All-Ireland football final ref Gough told 2fm's Game On.
"I'd have to sit down and have a long think about it. At the moment I would say no.
"I’d have to see what developments are made between now and July but certainly we’re not going to have a vaccine in place by July.
"With my own personal circumstances, at the moment I wouldn't be comfortable refereeing matches with no vaccine.
"I'll just speak for myself, I won’t say for other referees, but it’s going to be quite difficult for us getting back into inter-county setups definitely at that stage. Club games might be a little bit easier to deal with."
The Meath man said that "there needs to be a serious amount of thought put in" to regulations around any return to play, and highlighted the difficulty of officials socially distancing when they are expected to travel to games together and share cramped dressing-rooms.
"My own circumstance, travelling from Dublin to Meath, picking up four umpires and putting them into a car, and then travelling around Meath for a Championship match might not be the most prudent way to start off refereeing again," said Gough.
"A lot of our umpires would be in the older age bracket and we need to be very careful about we're exposing these people to. I don’t know whether the Association is going to fork out for umpires to drive to the matches themselves if they can’t go safely in a car.
"There's no club that I’m aware of in Meath, except maybe Trim, that has a dressing-room big enough for adequate social distancing for referees and match officials. At inter-county level, even in Croke Park, it’s the same. There wouldn’t be room for eight match officials to be properly socially distanced.
Gough, who is one of 72 inter-county refs that will run 11.2km (the average distance run in a Championship match) to raise funds for Pieta House this Saturday, also observed that the role of Maor Uisce would have to be expanded as "we're going to need 15 water bottles minimum per team", that it would difficult to stop players spitting and that refereeing games in Ulster could cause problems if Northern Ireland is operating under different restrictions to the 26 counties.
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 5, 2020 4:21:01 GMT
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Post by sandradee on May 5, 2020 20:38:48 GMT
After reading Eamon Sweeney's article one could easily conclude that he most definitely is not an investigative journalist. Parroting the usual line while adding his own little spin. A person of influence maybe due to his not so small readership, with unfortunately many hanging on to his every word. We get another bout of fear mongering which in itself can depress the immune system.
In an attempt to make some sense of all this lets crank up some numbers. The population of Europe is in the region of 740 million. According to the World Health Organization Europe, “During the winter months, influenza may infect up to 20% of the population” That relates to 148 million cases per year.
We are now five months into this pandemic with the number of COVID-19 cases according to the European Center for Decease and Control (CDC Europe) just over 1,362,000 which equates to 3.25 million per year. A drop in the ocean compared to 148 million.
The definition of influenza according to Pharmacy and Therapeutics “ Influenza is a highly contagious respiratory illness that is responsible for significant morbidity and mortality. Approximately 9% of the world's population is effected annually, with up to I billion infections, 3 to 5 million severe cases and 300,000 to 500,000 deaths each year”. The WHO's estimates are even higher. “A recent study found that worldwide up to 650,000 people die of respiratory diseases linked to seasonal influenza each year”
Five months on the COVID-19 death toll is 250,000 or so equating to 500,000 per year, about the same of seasonal flu deaths.
So by comparing the figures on what basis do we now have a COVID-19 worldwide lockdown versus no lockdown for seasonal flu ever?
On an encouraging note hardly anyone is dying of the flu any longer. Cancer, heart attack, diabetes etc., deaths have plummeted. Anybody dying with an underlying condition is now considered a COVID-19 victim. Everybody has traces of coronavirus in the body and may or may not test positive after foregoing the RT-PCR test. Kary Banks Mullis, Nobel Prize winner and invented the RT-PCR test stated that it should not be used to detect viruses. A human body consists of 300 Trillion viruses, we are unable to exist without them. Viruses like exosomes help in getting rid of toxins in the body thus the feelings of ilness. Could this so called COVID-19 therefore not be the cause but the reaction?
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 6, 2020 8:16:07 GMT
After reading Eamon Sweeney's article one could easily conclude that he most definitely is not an investigative journalist. Parroting the usual line while adding his own little spin. A person of influence maybe due to his not so small readership, with unfortunately many hanging on to his every word. We get another bout of fear mongering which in itself can depress the immune system. In an attempt to make some sense of all this lets crank up some numbers. The population of Europe is in the region of 740 million. According to the World Health Organization Europe, “During the winter months, influenza may infect up to 20% of the population” That relates to 148 million cases per year. We are now five months into this pandemic with the number of COVID-19 cases according to the European Center for Decease and Control (CDC Europe) just over 1,362,000 which equates to 3.25 million per year. A drop in the ocean compared to 148 million. The definition of influenza according to Pharmacy and Therapeutics “ Influenza is a highly contagious respiratory illness that is responsible for significant morbidity and mortality. Approximately 9% of the world's population is effected annually, with up to I billion infections, 3 to 5 million severe cases and 300,000 to 500,000 deaths each year”. The WHO's estimates are even higher. “A recent study found that worldwide up to 650,000 people die of respiratory diseases linked to seasonal influenza each year” Five months on the COVID-19 death toll is 250,000 or so equating to 500,000 per year, about the same of seasonal flu deaths. So by comparing the figures on what basis do we now have a COVID-19 worldwide lockdown versus no lockdown for seasonal flu ever? On an encouraging note hardly anyone is dying of the flu any longer. Cancer, heart attack, diabetes etc., deaths have plummeted. Anybody dying with an underlying condition is now considered a COVID-19 victim. Everybody has traces of coronavirus in the body and may or may not test positive after foregoing the RT-PCR test. Kary Banks Mullis, Nobel Prize winner and invented the RT-PCR test stated that it should not be used to detect viruses. A human body consists of 300 Trillion viruses, we are unable to exist without them. Viruses like exosomes help in getting rid of toxins in the body thus the feelings of ilness. Could this so called COVID-19 therefore not be the cause but the reaction? You're the doctor, you tell 'em, then just think of all the poor souls who have an illness for which there is no known cure - so little is even known about it. And people still die of the flu! Try this for size - Munster GAA chief warns insurance could delay return to actionIn a way maybe it ain't so bad that so few are on here as things are a bit dull and that is being realistic. I must say though I really enjoyed Leitrim taking Maigh Eo in the '94 Connaught Final - I've seen if before but got that amazing feeling, wasn't so much Maigh Eo as Leitrim, maybe they gave me hope, spirit - gosh we need it! Ah we will prevail, people of old had it rough all the time and all they wanted to do was ensure we would have things they didn't. They had each other, chats, etc, amazing it is free and we are growing away from it, we prefer talking to computer games and where will that take us? At least on here we have a bit of crack though the auld bit of roguery is gone, educated out of us? I was chattin to an auld laddo last week and the tales he had - I was reading a boring book last night in the sack and yes, started thinking of me man and his stories, couldn't sleep thinking of him, then didn't it knock me out and woke up a new man at the crack of dawn, Ballylongford poet Brendan Kennelly used to say that laughter was the best medicine and right he was, we just need more of it, best things in life are free!
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Post by Galway breeze on May 6, 2020 8:52:33 GMT
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Post by rollingstone on May 6, 2020 14:45:11 GMT
Sandradee makes some great points. When you look into the numbers I really don’t see how delaying the recommencement of the GAA and sporting events can be justified any longer, let alone extending the restrictions as they have just been. We were all initially told the lockdown was to stop the spread of the virus and therefore ease pressure on the HSE – there’s 2,000 empty beds and lots of quiet hospitals so it’s clear that that’s been achieved but they keep moving the goal posts.
On overall deaths which are about 1300 (before you even address the accuracy of those that are being recorded as COVID19 deaths whilst ignoring the pre-condition conditions present in about 80-90% of those deaths) it is very unfortunate but true that 60% of those deaths are in care and nursing homes – the government should held accountable for this but I won’t hold my breath. If you remove the care/nursing homes from the total deaths you’re left with 520 deaths in the general population at a maximum. That is a death rate of 0.01% (or 0.03% including nursing and care home deaths) in a population of 4.5m. It was reported on TV3 last Thursday and again elsewhere on Friday that there have been a total of 14 deaths of people aged under 45. There are 3m people in that category in Ireland so that is a death rate of 0.0005%. I am not making light of the deaths to date – I have close family members either in the high risk category or who have contracted COVID-19 and thankfully have recovered unscathed, but these deaths need to be put into some sort of context, which they are currently not. If the risk to the playing population is negligible and zero for children, why can’t life open up and the clubs get back to action and those at risk obviously to take sensible precautions?
We are headed for a year of no football potentially and 22% unemployment as our wonderful finance minister told us recently, something has to give. I see Gough talking about a vaccine, I will not labour the point but I encourage everyone to look up what happened in Ireland (and around the world) after they rushed out the Swine Flu vaccine in 2010. There are unfortunately many people still seeking compensation for the resulting injuries sustained, even to this day.
As a side note and to illustrate the hypocrisy of the powers that be, I see that Prof Neil Ferguson has been in the news - he's the doomsday merchant from Imperial College in London who predicted 500k deaths in the UK and 2.2m in the US before drastically reducing these forecasts by 90-95% the day after the lockdown started that he recommended. He has been caught out in a tryst with his mistress who traveled across London to see him during the lockdown, it seems that lockdown is just for the little people and that he wasn't that concerned for her safety in breaching the lockdown that he is responsible for. It's also worth looking up who Ferguson has been working with to develop his predictive modelling code to start putting the pieces together.
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Post by sullyschoice on May 6, 2020 15:14:08 GMT
Personally I would prefer to listen to the WHO and our CMO. When I hear anyone trying to undermine vaccination I stop reading and move on.
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Post by rollingstone on May 6, 2020 15:55:50 GMT
Personally I would prefer to listen to the WHO and our CMO. When I hear anyone trying to undermine vaccination I stop reading and move on. If it were any other drug that was being rushed into development with an indemnity and for potential use worldwide, there wouldn’t be such a controversy about discussing valid and demonstrable safety concerns. The point on a vaccine I am making Sully is that the same Dr Holohan who is now in charge is the same man that paid the manufacturers’ asking price and provided them with an indemnity from liability for the Swine Flue vaccine in 2010. The Examiner had a recent article on the 100+ people in Ireland still seeking compensation for injury from that vaccine 10 years on (note from the Irish tax payer, not the manufacturer). There are many NHS workers in England who were encouraged to take it with similar outstanding claims. I am not saying don’t take it, I am just trying to point out some relevant recent history. In a GAA context, if Gough and/or the GAA are waiting for a vaccine, notwithstanding the issues above, there will be no football for a long time when in my opinion the delay is unnecessary based on the evidence available.
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Post by Mickmack on May 6, 2020 18:55:47 GMT
Sandradee makes some great points. When you look into the numbers I really don’t see how delaying the recommencement of the GAA and sporting events can be justified any longer, let alone extending the restrictions as they have just been. We were all initially told the lockdown was to stop the spread of the virus and therefore ease pressure on the HSE – there’s 2,000 empty beds and lots of quiet hospitals so it’s clear that that’s been achieved but they keep moving the goal posts. On overall deaths which are about 1300 (before you even address the accuracy of those that are being recorded as COVID19 deaths whilst ignoring the pre-condition conditions present in about 80-90% of those deaths) it is very unfortunate but true that 60% of those deaths are in care and nursing homes – the government should held accountable for this but I won’t hold my breath. If you remove the care/nursing homes from the total deaths you’re left with 520 deaths in the general population at a maximum. That is a death rate of 0.01% (or 0.03% including nursing and care home deaths) in a population of 4.5m. It was reported on TV3 last Thursday and again elsewhere on Friday that there have been a total of 14 deaths of people aged under 45. There are 3m people in that category in Ireland so that is a death rate of 0.0005%. I am not making light of the deaths to date – I have close family members either in the high risk category or who have contracted COVID-19 and thankfully have recovered unscathed, but these deaths need to be put into some sort of context, which they are currently not. If the risk to the playing population is negligible and zero for children, why can’t life open up and the clubs get back to action and those at risk obviously to take sensible precautions? We are headed for a year of no football potentially and 22% unemployment as our wonderful finance minister told us recently, something has to give. I see Gough talking about a vaccine, I will not labour the point but I encourage everyone to look up what happened in Ireland (and around the world) after they rushed out the Swine Flu vaccine in 2010. There are unfortunately many people still seeking compensation for the resulting injuries sustained, even to this day. As a side note and to illustrate the hypocrisy of the powers that be, I see that Prof Neil Ferguson has been in the news - he's the doomsday merchant from Imperial College in London who predicted 500k deaths in the UK and 2.2m in the US before drastically reducing these forecasts by 90-95% the day after the lockdown started that he recommended. He has been caught out in a tryst with his mistress who traveled across London to see him during the lockdown, it seems that lockdown is just for the little people and that he wasn't that concerned for her safety in breaching the lockdown that he is responsible for. It's also worth looking up who Ferguson has been working with to develop his predictive modelling code to start putting the pieces together. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000hhv1I think this guy makes your point a bit more succinctly. But its not one that i subscribe to.
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Post by sandradee on May 7, 2020 1:47:57 GMT
You're the doctor, you tell 'em, then just think of all the poor souls who have an illness for which there is no known cure - so little is even known about it. And people still die of the flu! Try this for size - Munster GAA chief warns insurance could delay return to actionIn a way maybe it ain't so bad that so few are on here as things are a bit dull and that is being realistic. I must say though I really enjoyed Leitrim taking Maigh Eo in the '94 Connaught Final - I've seen if before but got that amazing feeling, wasn't so much Maigh Eo as Leitrim, maybe they gave me hope, spirit - gosh we need it! Ah we will prevail, people of old had it rough all the time and all they wanted to do was ensure we would have things they didn't. They had each other, chats, etc, amazing it is free and we are growing away from it, we prefer talking to computer games and where will that take us? At least on here we have a bit of crack though the auld bit of roguery is gone, educated out of us? I was chattin to an auld laddo last week and the tales he had - I was reading a boring book last night in the sack and yes, started thinking of me man and his stories, couldn't sleep thinking of him, then didn't it knock me out and woke up a new man at the crack of dawn, Ballylongford poet Brendan Kennelly used to say that laughter was the best medicine and right he was, we just need more of it, best things in life are free! First off we are not cavemen. Lack of sunlight is the major cause of insufficient Vitamin D3 levels which leads to many diseases including influenza type illnesses. Well over 50% of the population were already deficient before the lockdown, being imprisoned in our own homes is counterproductive for good health in many ways. Maintaining an adequate level of Vitamin D3 may be our best protection against COVID-19. That's just the tip of the iceberg in building a strong immune system. We are for years now being warned about that dreaded CO2. Great for plant life but not for humans. Limited mask wearing should be advised as one is inhaling one's own CO2, people like doing dangerous things when it comes to their health. When purchasing a house or car for instance we all do a thorough check but when it comes to injecting proven chemical toxins, aborted fetal cells (MRC-5), monkey and pig kidneys and chicken parts directly into the bloodstream thus avoiding the blood-brain barrier of pregnant mothers and 12 hour old babies who's immune systems are not yet developed the vast majority ask no questions. Whatever about putting one self as an adult in harms way by choice, please do not play Russian Roulette regarding the health of the unborn or any child until they reach the age of reason. Millions of parents have learned the hard way, do not be that parent or grandparent, sister, brother aunt or uncle. Yes, we do know or should know enough about COVID-19 to make proper judgements. We truly are living in the strangest of times.
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Post by rollingstone on May 7, 2020 13:34:34 GMT
Mick - he makes some valid points and is indeed a bit more succinct but talks in very general terms, I am trying to be more specific and provide the actual data as it relates to Ireland. As he rightly points out, there has always been a trade off in terms of illness v cost but the current approach is to contain no matter what the economic and social cost.
Can I ask is it that you do not subscribe to the recommencement of GAA and schools or the general lifting of the lockdown? I am genuinely intrigued as despite the actual data saying otherwise, this seems to be a position shared by a large part of the population. The kids would love to get back to the club as would I as a coach and supporter. With the data mounting daily, I think we are all old enough and smart enough to judge whether that is something we are willing to do or not.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on May 8, 2020 8:53:54 GMT
The government with guidance from the best health professionals put out their timeline and said it's OK for GAA matches to take place from 20th of July and training in small groups with social distancing from May 18th. I personally don't agree with the GAA then saying no activity at all until 20th July which includes keeping pitches closed and this automatically pushes matches back a few weeks as well. I think the GAA are being overly cautious. If the government say it's OK to gradually resume activity, the GAA should only be too happy to oblige. It could be 3 years before a vaccine is widely available we can't stop everything for that long and is there going to be much difference in the situation between now and in a few months?
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Post by goonised on May 8, 2020 17:58:11 GMT
The government with guidance from the best health professionals put out their timeline and said it's OK for GAA matches to take place from 20th of July and training in small groups with social distancing from May 18th. I personally don't agree with the GAA then saying no activity at all until 20th July which includes keeping pitches closed and this automatically pushes matches back a few weeks as well. I think the GAA are being overly cautious. If the government say it's OK to gradually resume activity, the GAA should only be too happy to oblige. It could be 3 years before a vaccine is widely available we can't stop everything for that long and is there going to be much difference in the situation between now and in a few months? You hardly think there will be a ball kicked in 2021
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