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Post by greengold35 on Feb 23, 2020 19:05:01 GMT
I didnt think much of the referee today either. A lot of very odd decisions and I thought Killian O sullivans sin binning was harsh. Very in consistent interpretation of the tackle Ref got the O’Sullivan black wrong & then proceeded to punish Kerry afterwards by not giving frees or awarding some soft ones to Meath - huge inconsistency in the first 35 mins. We didn’t seem to have a game plan at any juncture - Paul G back in defence responsible for their 2nd goal said it all for me - poor performance from team & management. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 23, 2020 19:06:08 GMT
It's only Feb but we have real issues to address.
Conceding 2.10 against a team with no real marquee forwards is really poor.
Where is Donnie Buckley? We've gone backwards this year so far.
We need one more win to maintain divison 1 status.
A win in Castlebar would probably relegate them.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 23, 2020 19:15:32 GMT
Plenty for PK to ponder after today.
We better pray nothing happens to Shane Ryan this year. Kelly did make one good save with his foot to give him credit. But I'd say about 1-6 for Meath came straight from our kickouts.
On the relatively new players it didn't really happen for Liam Kearney today but he remains a decent option. Shaw got a nice point and did well for the goal and it was a reasonable debut. Graham Sullivan did OK but never really won a 50/50 ball.
Burns and Gavin White played well I felt. 4 or 5 points must have come through Tommy Walsh when he came on. Seanie superb from frees.
Somebody mentioned Paul Geaney. At one stage in the first half Kerry were attacking after turning Meath over in the middle of the field, it was 2 v 2 inside and Paul made a couple of runs to get free. No ball came in. I could hear Paul roaring at his colleagues to 'kick the f-ing ball in to me'. When Tony Brosnan came on Paul played a deeper role and ended up as the last defender twice - his man obviously under instructions to do this to Paul. One led to a goal which Paul probably has a share of the blame for - with his keeper. Factor in Johnny Heaney scoring a goal for Galway and its obviously something the management need to consider.
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1955
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Post by 1955 on Feb 23, 2020 19:27:41 GMT
The burning question already asked was where is Donie Buckley. The only one that can answer that is the manager
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 23, 2020 19:27:57 GMT
Brian Kelly is nowhere near this level - I dont get his selection today 2 important saves in second half.The 20 metre kick out now promotes the longer kick out and our midfield was below par today.Also with breaks we were not upto scratch.Losing kickouts not always goalies fault. He's been tried before so its time to move on. Pointless to be honest and worrying that if Ryan gets injured that we havent tried anyone new. I know kickouts arent always the keepers fault but that point would stand no matter who was in goal, we need a better second choice option in there. O Brien had a good championship in there and we need to see will he sink or swim. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 23, 2020 19:31:43 GMT
Plenty for PK to ponder after today. We better pray nothing happens to Shane Ryan this year. Kelly did make one good save with his foot to give him credit. But I'd say about 1-6 for Meath came straight from our kickouts. On the relatively new players it didn't really happen for Liam Kearney today but he remains a decent option. Shaw got a nice point and did well for the goal and it was a reasonable debut. Graham Sullivan did OK but never really won a 50/50 ball. Burns and Gavin White played well I felt. 4 or 5 points must have come through Tommy Walsh when he came on. Seanie superb from frees. Somebody mentioned Paul Geaney. At one stage in the first half Kerry were attacking after turning Meath over in the middle of the field, it was 2 v 2 inside and Paul made a couple of runs to get free. No ball came in. I could hear Paul roaring at his colleagues to 'kick the f-ing ball in to me'. When Tony Brosnan came on Paul played a deeper role and ended up as the last defender twice - his man obviously under instructions to do this to Paul. One led to a goal which Paul probably has a share of the blame for - with his keeper. Factor in Johnny Heaney scoring a goal for Galway and its obviously something the management need to consider. Shaw has the ability and will come good I think- just needs a bit more time. He'll struggle to get championship gametime this year but I would see him getting some minutes off the bench and if he has a good run with Crokes then he might see a lot of league game time next year. The ability and physical characteristics are there so here's hoping that it happens for him |
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Post by greengold35 on Feb 23, 2020 19:47:03 GMT
The burning question already asked was where is Donie Buckley. The only one that can answer that is the manager Donie was on the sideline in Edendork having returned from his sojourn in the states - assume he was in the dugout today? My understanding is that our focus is currently on S & C with little emphasis on football. |
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Post by john4 on Feb 23, 2020 19:48:06 GMT
The burning question already asked was where is Donie Buckley. The only one that can answer that is the manager He was in Killarney today. Don't know how long he's inside with them but he was there today |
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 23, 2020 20:07:03 GMT
2 important saves in second half.The 20 metre kick out now promotes the longer kick out and our midfield was below par today.Also with breaks we were not upto scratch.Losing kickouts not always goalies fault. He's been tried before so its time to move on. Pointless to be honest and worrying that if Ryan gets injured that we havent tried anyone new. I know kickouts arent always the keepers fault but that point would stand no matter who was in goal, we need a better second choice option in there. O Brien had a good championship in there and we need to see will he sink or swim. Regardless of who's in goal we must work on our movement and hoovering up breaks.Cluxton is the best kicker but hell be the first to admit that the guys outside are on the same wavelength.Watch Comerford in goal for them.Hes kicking it out to the converted. Weve a lot of work to do on that count. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 23, 2020 20:29:10 GMT
He's been tried before so its time to move on. Pointless to be honest and worrying that if Ryan gets injured that we havent tried anyone new. I know kickouts arent always the keepers fault but that point would stand no matter who was in goal, we need a better second choice option in there. O Brien had a good championship in there and we need to see will he sink or swim. Regardless of who's in goal we must work on our movement and hoovering up breaks.Cluxton is the best kicker but hell be the first to admit that the guys outside are on the same wavelength.Watch Comerford in goal for them.Hes kicking it out to the converted. Weve a lot of work to do on that count. While I do agree with you- you’re discussing a different point. |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 23, 2020 20:55:50 GMT
Here's a copy from another thread of my close up observations of Cluxton in Omagh last year vs Tyrone and which will be repeated next Sat night, apart from Cluxton factor?
I cannot understand our kickouts - I attended Dublin vs Tyrone in Omagh last year and purposefully positioned myself on the terrace behind Cluxton. In that one game alone I figured out a good few of his tactics that Shane does't appear to know of. I was no more than 10 yards from him and there was no barriers in my line of sight so I had an amazing close up of things and I think PK & Co need to latch onto this while Clux is still at his peak. It was as much how he did things in addition to what he was doing and now I know some might think I am getting ahead of myself here, but it all made sense when put together - I wouldn't say I have better football brain than is in our camp so as I say, they need to take a look.
For anyone who doubts me, here is one key tactic - from the time the ball goes out of play Clux is gazing over the field of players, they are communicating, moving about and taking note of where the opponents are, what way they are faced/orientated etc, I think Clux doesn't decide on the target until he is actually running up to kick the placed ball. On a number of occasions the target spot is on the path of a run, on one notable occasion James McCarthy was a few yards from anyone, body facing the opposing goals but he was watching Clux, then as Clux runs up to the ball McCarthy makes a run and he is now gone 5-10 yards and hey presto the ball gets him in/at the chest, on one such occasion McCarthy did almost the same thing again in finding the next man and would have kicked it before anyone got to him, and if my memory serves me right I think the fella who received it popped over for a point, it was all done in about 15 seconds. There would be a few making runs so Clux's selection is vital, and the longer the kick the more advance warning the opponent has, making the runs is vital as the opponents are confused. As I said it is how it is done, some might think by this account that I am being childish but as we all know there is very little childish about what Clux does and it is the dynamic of so much happening all over the field when the ball isn't even yet in play that is truly fascinating. In fairness it took me a while to get my head around it all but then again it was the only game where I could get that close as before the Super 8s Championship games were at bigger venues where a spectator couldn't get such a close up view. That was a roaster of a Summers day and I'd be thinking there may be variations for different conditions. That was the same day Tyrone narrowed the field in an attempt to squeeze the Dubs so that might also have influenced Clux.
I'd be very interested to hear what some of our seasoned pundits on here would think of the above account of what is but one aspect of Clux's bag of tricks.
Meanwhile I would recommend anyone to try it for themselves, that is if Dublin play outside Croker. It might also be interesting to explore if and how Clux is passing on his expertise to young pretender Evan Comerford.
Clux has transformed the goal keeper role and by recognising the kick out as possession can be key to the outcome in what is a sport of increasingly tight margins.
One might say that anyone could do what I outlined but it is a very fine line and one slip has it all fall apart, which is why I say it is as much how it is done, from what I could see the success rate was high, worked 4 out of 5 times.
Another aspect was that finding the man worked better with more seasoned players, I senses a telepathy between Clux and James, in one instance towards the end I actually guessed precisely where the ball was going - that I was stood a bit higher up than Clux gave be a better view of the field of players.
Fascinating stuff it is, and as I say, much of it when the ball isn't even in play!
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 23, 2020 21:24:43 GMT
Regardless of who's in goal we must work on our movement and hoovering up breaks.Cluxton is the best kicker but hell be the first to admit that the guys outside are on the same wavelength.Watch Comerford in goal for them.Hes kicking it out to the converted. Weve a lot of work to do on that count. While I do agree with you- you’re discussing a different point. My point is you're rating and dissing goalkeepers, who you agree are working at a disadvantage because of the teams lack of a cohesive kick out strategy. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 23, 2020 21:27:50 GMT
While I do agree with you- you’re discussing a different point. My point is you're rating and dissing goalkeepers, who you agree are working at a disadvantage because of the teams lack of a cohesive kick out strategy. Yes, I am rating a keeper based on several years of performance. Are you disagreeing with my assessment? I'm not saying that they are at a disadvantage - just agreeing that its more of a team game and not on the shoulders of one person alone. However the keeper still needs to be decisive and able to execute good, accurate kicks and usually with a kick that isnt lofted so that it hits its target quickly. |
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Post by carthalawn on Feb 23, 2020 22:29:43 GMT
On paper we should have beaten this Meath team out the gate - a team with no marquee forward.
Alas we made hard work of it and only for the intervention and leadership of Tommy Walsh it could have been a different story.
I thought Burns, Moynihan played their part. Murphy was effective along with White, who carried well. Clifford put in a fine shift / he went over on his ankle early in the second half, which looked bad at one point but thankfully he bounced back. Good to see Shaw get a run.
Restarts were appalling - must have conceded 4-5 points on our own kick-out - a collective issue.
Interesting to hear PK say that team is not as forward compared to this time last year.
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Post by southward on Feb 23, 2020 22:38:19 GMT
On paper we should have beaten this Meath team out the gate - a team with no marquee forward. Alas we made hard work of it and only for the intervention and leadership of Tommy Walsh it could have been a different story. I thought Burns, Moynihan played their part. Murphy was effective along with White, who carried well. Clifford put in a fine shift / he went over on his ankle early in the second half, which looked bad at one point but thankfully he bounced back. Good to see Shaw get a run. Restarts were appalling - must have conceded 4-5 points on our own kick-out - a collective issue. Interesting to hear PK say that team is not as forward compared to this time last year. At least. We lost almost all of them. Killed us today. |
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The16thMan
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Post by The16thMan on Feb 23, 2020 22:42:40 GMT
I personally thought White was poor today, maybe just me. Good driving forward yes but I thought he lost track of his men a few too many times for my liking and isn't a great man marker. I thought Geaney was fairly anonymous again. Perhaps he needs a bit of a spell in the bench and give the likes of Spillane or Shaw a run, who I thought was good in the first half. Leaked too many scores from our own kickout, perhaps we should be more grateful for Shane Ryan as Kelly's kickouts were a lot worse today.
Burns was man of the match for me, got stuck in from the start. Kicked some lovely scores and seems to be one of the few players on the team who has that sort of fire in the belly like Paul Galvin had. Enright was solid as usual again, made his presence known. 2 points is what mattered today and we got them so job done although unconvincingly. Looking forward to Castlebar Saturday, a win will put us in a good position and put Mayo in deep trouble so fingers crossed. Cíarraí Abú
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Post by john4 on Feb 23, 2020 22:51:24 GMT
I'm beginning to think that there's actually no tactical plan whatsoever for the league this year in terms of the overall ambition of winning the competition, or each match individually. I think we're just trying to win the 3 matches that'll keep us in div. 1 next year and that's all.
We can't even win our own kickouts. After 4 rounds of any competition you'd expect to see some improvement in this area, but today it appeared as if there's nothing whatsoever been done to address this.
Maybe this is wishful thinking!!
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 23, 2020 23:29:36 GMT
The thing about Buckley is that he does not have any role at this time of year.. The league is basically a "preseason" competition. They want to see any fellow brought in for a game in what ever raw, unstructured way he plays. That may mean having to live with basic errors. Come June they should have decided on the 8 or 9 defenders that will play the rest of the championship and Buckley will put tactics in place for them to cover for each other etc.
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Post by athletics on Feb 23, 2020 23:32:17 GMT
A lot of people are asking where is Donie Buckley ? He is with the team saw him today and in Tyrone but it is very obvious he is not given much time to work with the players by Peter Keane. Why have somebody of his calibre as part of the set up and not use him. It's mind boggling. Look what he did with the Mayo team when he was working with them they were brilliant at tackling and defending. I hope management change this or we won't be getting near an All Ireland this year.
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Post by sullyschoice on Feb 23, 2020 23:37:50 GMT
I dont know what he has been doing but its not sinking in. Our tackling is shocking and has been dor a while now.
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Post by athletics on Feb 23, 2020 23:37:50 GMT
The thing about Buckley is that he does not have any role at this time of year.. The league is basically a "preseason" competition. They want to see any fellow brought in for a game in what ever raw, unstructured way he plays. That may mean having to live with basic errors. Come June they should have decided on the 8 or 9 defenders that will play the rest of the championship and Buckley will put tactics in place for them to cover for each other etc. I understand that but last Summer Donie was given very little time at sessions . Tackling is. not a skill you improve on over night. The players need to be working on this now it's very obvious that it needs work. |
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Post by southward on Feb 24, 2020 0:35:11 GMT
I dont know what he has been doing but its not sinking in. Our tackling is shocking and has been dor a while now. Playing with abandon while leaking at the other end is one thing. What is most worrying though is that at times today, we had all 15 back inside our own 45 and still Meath were able to penetrate for goal chances. |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 24, 2020 0:59:29 GMT
Was Foley's absence a sign that this was an experimental side? If you learn more by losing than winning then close encounters are the ideal result, i.e. blooding as much as possible while staying in Division 1. The division was tight and now Monaghan hammer Mayo while Galway dismember Tyrone -who will be relegated is anyone guess with the outstanding match-ups.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 24, 2020 6:25:14 GMT
Was Foley's absence a sign that this was an experimental side? If you learn more by losing than winning then close encounters are the ideal result, i.e. blooding as much as possible while staying in Division 1. The division was tight and now Monaghan hammer Mayo while Galway dismember Tyrone -who will be relegated is anyone guess with the outstanding match-ups. We get it, you’re from ballydonoghue!! |
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Post by taggert on Feb 24, 2020 7:16:55 GMT
Was Foley's absence a sign that this was an experimental side? If you learn more by losing than winning then close encounters are the ideal result, i.e. blooding as much as possible while staying in Division 1. The division was tight and now Monaghan hammer Mayo while Galway dismember Tyrone -who will be relegated is anyone guess with the outstanding match-ups. I think we can safely say Foley's absence was owing to his both hapless and hopeless display against Tyrone. He gave away 2 gimme frees and forgot the fact that playing from behind has been neutered by the introduction of the mark. A well deserved sit out for the Ballydonoghue man and some time to ponder the year ahead. |
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Post by taggert on Feb 24, 2020 8:31:42 GMT
I am very disappointed in folk on this forum, they always find other teams cynical. Dublin, Galway and then Tyrone and no doubt Meath will be cynical tomorrow. Before calling the opposition cynical and naming players look in the mirror first. Maybe Star has a point in wipeout or clean up these forums. I never found Galway cynical. I cant see into the future to see how Meath will play but I dont think their recent teams were cynical. Tyrone are the Kings of Cynical and the Dubs are well capable of it. I find it funny how a fella who is getting paid to give his opinions on various media outlets thinks a forum with limited visibility should be shut down. This forum is tame. Looks like some in the media agree with comments posted here on the cynicism of certain teams.... www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0223/1117173-mcconville-dublin-are-cynical-when-closing-out-games/ |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 24, 2020 9:16:46 GMT
Was Foley's absence a sign that this was an experimental side? If you learn more by losing than winning then close encounters are the ideal result, i.e. blooding as much as possible while staying in Division 1. The division was tight and now Monaghan hammer Mayo while Galway dismember Tyrone -who will be relegated is anyone guess with the outstanding match-ups. We get it, you’re from ballydonoghue!! Yip, PK dropped Jason in last years league but then discovered that the replacements weren't as effective so we had a 'bring back Jason, all is forgiven' scenario, a defender is generally judged by what his man scores, who could the likes of McShane scoreless and that Dub FF line? I'd like to hear from someone on here who could offer a fair assessment of Jason's progress. There is a lot of criticism on here but it often lacks balance, one sees little of Jason on TV but if he was so anonymous then he wouldn't even make the panel. I know he is fast but that doesn't appear to stand out because of the calibre of opponent. Tricky stuff this punditry so help out a poor migrant here! I have Dgal quiet a bit and they appear to have comparable talent to us with a fraction of the pipeline, now I believe ours will explode and the sooner te better, but it mightn't be all about beating Dublin, what with Dgal and now Galway, and look at Monaghan the weekend, could be a really great Championship season, would be a great one to win! |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 24, 2020 9:56:46 GMT
We get it, you’re from ballydonoghue!! Yip, PK dropped Jason in last years league but then discovered that the replacements weren't as effective so we had a 'bring back Jason, all is forgiven' scenario, a defender is generally judged by what his man scores, who could the likes of McShane scoreless and that Dub FF line? I'd like to hear from someone on here who could offer a fair assessment of Jason's progress. There is a lot of criticism on here but it often lacks balance, one sees little of Jason on TV but if he was so anonymous then he wouldn't even make the panel. I know he is fast but that doesn't appear to stand out because of the calibre of opponent. Tricky stuff this punditry so help out a poor migrant here! I have Dgal quiet a bit and they appear to have comparable talent to us with a fraction of the pipeline, now I believe ours will explode and the sooner te better, but it mightn't be all about beating Dublin, what with Dgal and now Galway, and look at Monaghan the weekend, could be a really great Championship season, would be a great one to win! I think Jason has a lot of ability but is a still a bit naive when it comes to his defending. This can be coached into a player though and I would definitely be looking to persist with him as he has the potential to be a top class defender |
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 24, 2020 10:21:35 GMT
Very enjoyable football to watch at this time of the year rather than watching Kerry playing with 15 behind the ball. Different strokes for different times of the year. Summer will bring different challenges. It a real pity this fine chuck of football is shoehorned into Feb/March........!!!
Looking forward, midfield post DM looks like a horizon of inconsistency for Kerry in the absence of MO'C........
Mayo looking for the points will bring a bit of bite to next weekends game. J'OC is not getting the Micko bounce in Kildare at the moment, the summer will be interesting in the short grass county. Dublin are looking like a runaway train again this year. Top of the table on the back of five in a row, hugely impressive! Difficult to see a lurker in Leinster at the moment, Meath bottom of Div 1, Kildare bottom of div 2 with Laois mid table in the same division.
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Post by veteran on Feb 24, 2020 10:24:46 GMT
Coming home from Killarney I came to the unhappy conclusion that one could get away with writing a generic report on Kerry performances without actually attending the matches. It would go along these lines. The kickouts were hit and miss particularly when we went long, the defending was infantile, the midfield continued a tendency to flying on one wing, the forwards glittered but continue to be handicapped by an erratic and ponderous supply.
It started so brightly. I think we had about 1-5 registered before Meath woke up. During those early stages , when the ball went in smartly the forwards played textbook football, not least debutant David Shaw. David kicked over two fine points, hit the woodwork and adroitly broke down a ball to the inrushing David Clifford who finished to the net as one expects at this stage. Considering that contribution it was disappointing to see David being substituted in the second half. Was this the old remedy- when you are struggling take off the corner forward! On the other hand, in fairness to management, it maybe having played so little at this level he began to tire. An impressive first outing nevertheless.
When Meath did wake up, they found our defence wafer thin and not surprisingly they pulled themselves back into the game where they menacingly stayed to the very end. Our porous defence was not helped by our midfield where Jack Barry held up his quin but Liam Kearney had his poorest outing of the campaign. When LIam was substituted Sean O'Shea came to midfield where he made no impact. Sean, flawless once more from frees, seems to be going through a slight dip in form but this is unlikely to be a cause for worry.
I have no doubt we have a potent attack with plenty of options, it is likely we will have an adequate midfield but sweet Lord, the backs! All the backs who lined out yesterday are fine footballers but as a unit they are not cutting the mustard. This is a painfully ongoing problem. The only back who was competent yesterday was Tadgh Morley. They seem to have a congenital incapacity or a congenital fear of playing from the front and attacking the ball aggressively. It was noteworthy that the substitutions yesterday were made from midfield up and not in defence where Meath were ripping us to shreds. The most worrying thing here is that management possibly looked at the subs bench and decided , there is no added value there. The substitute backs were: Jason Foley, Jonathan Lyne, Michael Potts and Pa Kilkenny. The only other defender that is likely to come back is Jack Sherwood. Now, one can scarcely blame management for lack of alternatives but one can certainly blame them for not coaching lads how to tackle without conceding baby frees, how not to keep standing off and thus giving an opponent acres of space, how to play your opponent from the side or the front and therefore not to keep conceding possession etc.
Once more, our lack of kickout strategy manifested itself. Dodgy short ones, poorly placed long ones. I accept of course that clever kickouts involves a dovetailing of goalkeeper alertness and outfield movement but as soon as the ball goes dead the goalie should keep his head up and be alive to what is happening outfield. Alas, this did not happen yesterday as indeed it does not happen all too often. How much thought is given to this vital aspect of the current game during training sessions?
A word on Meath. After seeing them in Navan last year and in Killarney yesterday I have a feeling that they are better than their results would suggest. I am not sure what the basic problem is , perhaps lack of experience at this level. I get the impression that they are not too far away.
I think referees are dishing out too many black and yellow cards. First yellow cards ae being dished for the flimsiest of reasons and this of course means that a second yellow, which maybe deserved, leads to a red and therefore dismissal. I have repeatedly said that if a player is being dismissed for ten minutes or longer then there should be no doubt about the validity of that action because of its impact on the outcome of a game. That is not happening at present.
What always intrigues me about referees is what they deem worthy of sanction. For instance in the first five minutes of the game in front of me a black card was issued to Cillian O'Sullivan for what was nothing more than a clumsy tackle which warranted no more than a free. Contrast that with an incident late in the game. Sean O'Shea, having laid off a ball, was the recipient of a vicious frontal charge which was a week late. He needed prolonged treatment. A definite red. No, a yellow. Accordingly, this defender was allowed to stay on while Cillian O'Sullivan was dismissed for nothing. Justice?
In a previous game Mick Fitzimons got a black card for what amounted to a shoulder on an opponent. Yesterday, John Small committed a foul off the ball on Michael Murphy which was one of the reasons the black card was introduced. Ignored. In fairness the referee may not have seen it, although it was so blatant it was hard to miss it, but what about the linesman who is also a referee? The ironic thing here is that after the David Clifford incident people were making nonsensical suggestion that umpires should also be referees. Imagine, you need to be a referee to see what happened to David Clifford. I am afraid it boils down to the fact that that some officials see only what they want to see.
Speaking about John Small- he seems to be the common denominator in all Dublin's melees.
P.S. Sadly, the most depressing outcome of the weekend was the serious injury to Cathel McShane. It would appear that this injury could keep him out for the season and, if accounts are to be believed, may be career threatening. One can only hope that is not the case for this majestic player.
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