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Post by The16thMan on Feb 2, 2020 23:45:52 GMT
So with 3 points out of a possible 4 we've made a pretty good start. Tyrone never an easy place to play but I'd fancy our chances as Tyrone weren't brilliant in either of their 2 opening games. They'll think they've a point to prove after throwing away a lead against us in last years AI Semi. A victory up here would give us a great shout of making a league final later on in the year. However we won't get anything easy up there. Kerry by 7 for me.
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Post by homerj on Feb 3, 2020 9:31:16 GMT
wont get anything easy yet you predict a 7 point win! based on saturday nigths game, we could struggle up there but hopefully not.
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Post by john4 on Feb 3, 2020 11:00:27 GMT
I'd expect another tight one here. I wouldn't see winning or losing as important as being involved in a right tough scrap right to the end. Long ways out yet but early indications of a very bad weather for next Sunday
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Post by clubman on Feb 3, 2020 11:47:52 GMT
So with 3 points out of a possible 4 we've made a pretty good start. Tyrone never an easy place to play but I'd fancy our chances as Tyrone weren't brilliant in either of their 2 opening games. They'll think they've a point to prove after throwing away a lead against us in last years AI Semi. A victory up here would give us a great shout of making a league final later on in the year. However we won't get anything easy up there. Kerry by 7 for me. Full of contradictions! Our versions of not getting anything easy must differ greatly. Based on what I saw last saturday night I think we will do well to get anything up in Omagh.
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Post by glengael on Feb 3, 2020 11:51:26 GMT
Rest David Clifford. We need to see what the rest of our forward line can offer without him.
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Post by greengold35 on Feb 3, 2020 12:06:19 GMT
Tyrone @ home will always be tough but they are struggling right now with injuries/suspensions - Padraig Hampsey is out as is Mattie Donnelly, Peter Harte - these are long term & Mark Bradley was red carded yesterday.
We will need everybody available to wrestle the two points here which if achieved would be massive.
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Post by dc84 on Feb 3, 2020 12:17:42 GMT
What sort of team would people see going up t9 omagh sunday? I wouldn't mind if we gave a few lads a break myself. Talking mainly about clifford geaney and jod. A result doesnt bother me once we show the same resolve we have shown in last 5 mins of the last two games.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 3, 2020 13:45:35 GMT
We could easily be on zero points at the moment and I think this will be another very tight game.
An observation from the first two games regarding the new rules.
Dublin twice and Galway twice have messed up their own kickouts resulting in hop balls. One of Dublins and both Galways were for players being inside the D (not receiving the ball, just being there). We got a point in each game from the hop balls. Was the difference between losing in Croke Park and winning in Tralee.
The black card rule and the timing issue is massive. Donaghy made the point on OTB AM last week that even a 30 second mistake by the officials at the end of the game could cost you a win and it proved that way for Galway last week. That said I was shocked the Galway keeper wasn't told to slow the kick out to allow the player to come back on after the goal. A bit of inexperience on the line and by the keeper shown there.
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Post by The16thMan on Feb 3, 2020 17:33:16 GMT
So with 3 points out of a possible 4 we've made a pretty good start. Tyrone never an easy place to play but I'd fancy our chances as Tyrone weren't brilliant in either of their 2 opening games. They'll think they've a point to prove after throwing away a lead against us in last years AI Semi. A victory up here would give us a great shout of making a league final later on in the year. However we won't get anything easy up there. Kerry by 7 for me. Full of contradictions! Our versions of not getting anything easy must differ greatly. Based on what I saw last saturday night I think we will do well to get anything up in Omagh. Sorry for the confusion, when I meant get nothing easy I meant be in our faces for the 70 plus minutes and try prevent us playing football. However with the personnel they're missing from the team at the moment compared to last years AI Semi I fancy Kerry.
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Post by southward on Feb 3, 2020 18:30:09 GMT
wont get anything easy yet you predict a 7 point win! based on saturday nigths game, we could struggle up there but hopefully not. Some fellas seem to think we were terrible on Saturday; I didn't see it that way at all. Sure, we weren't 100%, especially at the back, but I suspect maybe people assumed Galway wouldn't be great and we should have beaten them handy - the fact is they were very good and it was a terrific game of football. I'd have no fears of Tyrone these days.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 3, 2020 21:03:51 GMT
To predict is difficult and to predict the future is impossible comes to mind, we had a lucky escape at our own fireplace against a team many would put Tyrone ahead of and who we meet in their cauldron. Ok they just fell to a Monaghan team gone off the boil but that can also be a big stick for Mickey to use and talk of sparing DC is more of the same - just what the doctor ordered! I think the loss of McShane is a blow and they will get over it, meanwhile one Mickey Harte is not to be trusted and a physical onslaught could be on, another ambush! Healy Park is only as hot as Healy-Rae Park!.
A great venue, culture shines through, different in the nicest possible ways to our own but then again identical in what counts, and don't they just love to welcome us, funny haha and peculiar of course! I'd say they respect us more than most, they used to go home to each others houses after the pub to re-watch our '70's/80's games, over and over again!
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Post by himself on Feb 3, 2020 22:58:29 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement.
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Post by dc84 on Feb 3, 2020 23:02:26 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Pity no issues with david as captain but it should be up to the manager/players really
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 1:00:30 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. So if the captain nominated at the start of the year does not play for any reason, mgt get to pick. That is a big change if so
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Post by goonised on Feb 4, 2020 7:37:51 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Are you surprised with the fairies that be doing the voting.
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Post by Chinatown on Feb 4, 2020 8:47:26 GMT
Folks, any word on JOD. Love to see him have a right crack at it this year.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 4, 2020 9:32:56 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. This outcome is probably the best of both worlds. Clubs need to show a bit of responsibility & maturity when nominating the captain from within a club.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 4, 2020 10:19:36 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. This outcome is probably the best of both worlds. Clubs need to show a bit of responsibility & maturity when nominating the captain from within a club. TCB should have gotten clubs to get this over the ljne, Murphy in Donagal and Cluxton with Dubs works amazing an as will Clifford. It has cost us and may again with games increasingly determined by a kick of the ball. I wonder did the 'me feiners' lobby others? Poor show that they would try shut out a star from a small club, very unGAA, unKerry and unsporting. A good kick in the arse the should get! Why didn't the good guys in Crokes have their say? The comments were well versed, 'we have bigger issues', etc - if you adopt that policy then you end up with a Gombeen culture, the best players in the county should be on the panel, led by the best captain among them -simple as! We will encounter be plenty of obstacles to winning back Sam, so no need to create problems. So so sad that naysayers can get away with this in what many believe to be the greatest Gaelic football county of all, maybe even more would have reason to say it if this decision was reversed and the issue finally put to bed!
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Post by onlykerry on Feb 4, 2020 13:36:27 GMT
This outcome is probably the best of both worlds. Clubs need to show a bit of responsibility & maturity when nominating the captain from within a club. TCB should have gotten clubs to get this over the ljne, Murphy in Donagal and Cluxton with Dubs works amazing an as will Clifford. It has cost us and may again with games increasingly determined by a kick of the ball. I wonder did the 'me feiners' lobby others? Poor show that they would try shut out a star from a small club, very unGAA, unKerry and unsporting. A good kick in the arse the should get! Why didn't the good guys in Crokes have their say? The comments were well versed, 'we have bigger issues', etc - if you adopt that policy then you end up with a Gombeen culture, the best players in the county should be on the panel, led by the best captain among them -simple as! We will encounter be plenty of obstacles to winning back Sam, so no need to create problems. So so sad that naysayers can get away with this in what many believe to be the greatest Gaelic football county of all, maybe even more would have reason to say it if this decision was reversed and the issue finally put to bed! Whereas I agree with your sentiments and think the management should have the right to name the captain I don't agree with some of your arguements. In particular I struggle to understand how you think anybody is trying to shut out a star from a small club. Problem stems from the pseudo democracy practiced by the GAA - it appears to be a ground up democratic organisation but in reality power exists in cliques within the association (at most levels including at club level). 50 for and 48 against suggests 98 votes - not sure how these break down, i.e. does this translate to 98 clubs each with one vote or do others get to vote? Either way the majority of Kerry clubs are imtermediate and Junior with only 8 senior clubs (or 12 if one takes D1 of the league as the benchmark of big clubs). Theoretically the power sits with the small clubs that you suggest are being shut out. We have had some great captains in recent years from small clubs - Seamus Moynihan, Darren O Sullivan, Declan O Sullivan and Paul Galvin all come to mind. They were nominated by the existing system when divisional sides won the County Championship, the problem actually arises more when a senior club wins the county championship and dont have an obvious cpatain from their ranks. This has been very evident with Crokes in recent years and yet the smaller clubs see fit to maintain the status quo. Issue is the bar stool bueaucrats who vote dont want to give up a right they perceive they have.
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Post by veteran on Feb 4, 2020 14:14:05 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Very disappointed with outcome and indeed surprised. However, that is democracy in action. As regards the management having the right to nominate the captain in the event of the nominated captain not being selected on the team, I presume that right will only obtain on an individual match basis , with the club nominated captain taking over when and if he is selected. Also, I presume that in the event of the club nominated captain not being selected that a club mate would assume captaincy if he is selected rather than management nominating a captain if such a scenario arises. Not sure.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 4, 2020 14:17:08 GMT
TCB should have gotten clubs to get this over the ljne, Murphy in Donagal and Cluxton with Dubs works amazing an as will Clifford. It has cost us and may again with games increasingly determined by a kick of the ball. I wonder did the 'me feiners' lobby others? Poor show that they would try shut out a star from a small club, very unGAA, unKerry and unsporting. A good kick in the arse the should get! Why didn't the good guys in Crokes have their say? The comments were well versed, 'we have bigger issues', etc - if you adopt that policy then you end up with a Gombeen culture, the best players in the county should be on the panel, led by the best captain among them -simple as! We will encounter be plenty of obstacles to winning back Sam, so no need to create problems. So so sad that naysayers can get away with this in what many believe to be the greatest Gaelic football county of all, maybe even more would have reason to say it if this decision was reversed and the issue finally put to bed! Whereas I agree with your sentiments and think the management should have the right to name the captain I don't agree with some of your arguements. In particular I struggle to understand how you think anybody is trying to shut out a star from a small club. Problem stems from the pseudo democracy practiced by the GAA - it appears to be a ground up democratic organisation but in reality power exists in cliques within the association (at most levels including at club level). 50 for and 48 against suggests 98 votes - not sure how these break down, i.e. does this translate to 98 clubs each with one vote or do others get to vote? Either way the majority of Kerry clubs are imtermediate and Junior with only 8 senior clubs (or 12 if one takes D1 of the league as the benchmark of big clubs). Theoretically the power sits with the small clubs that you suggest are being shut out. We have had some great captains in recent years from small clubs - Seamus Moynihan, Darren O Sullivan, Declan O Sullivan and Paul Galvin all come to mind. They were nominated by the existing system when divisional sides won the County Championship, the problem actually arises more when a senior club wins the county championship and dont have an obvious cpatain from their ranks. This has been very evident with Crokes in recent years and yet the smaller clubs see fit to maintain the status quo. Issue is the bar stool bueaucrats who vote dont want to give up a right they perceive they have. All I am saying basically is that the best Captain should lead and rugby proves that. In a given year a club might nominate the second best and that might cost the team dearly. It is a county team so it should be a county decision. Murphy and Cluxton have served for years and the results speak for themselves. If we can trust management to manage, we must trust them to select a captain, they will hardly risk the rewards of their hard work whereas a club will give it to their man. There is too much involved to allow cronyism to ruin it all. Ah David will be there until he next AGM so we can change it then. In fairness the Chairman did recommend it so he might go one better next year and clubs might cop on too, it is not about any individual, Kerry success was hared won for over a century and anything that threatens that in anyway should be nipped at the bud.
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Post by clarinman on Feb 4, 2020 14:55:17 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Very disappointed with outcome and indeed surprised. However, that is democracy in action. As regards the management having the right to nominate the captain in the event of the nominated captain not being selected on the team, I presume that right will only obtain on an individual match basis , with the club nominated captain taking over when and if he is selected. Also, I presume that in the event of the club nominated captain not being selected that a club mate would assume captaincy if he is selected rather than management nominating a captain if such a scenario arises. Not sure. I was confused by this last year. James O'Donoghue captained Kerry in the Munster semi final against Clare last year as no Dr Crokes player started. Was this a Dr Crokes or a management decision?
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Post by piggott on Feb 4, 2020 14:59:52 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Very disappointed with outcome and indeed surprised. However, that is democracy in action. As regards the management having the right to nominate the captain in the event of the nominated captain not being selected on the team, I presume that right will only obtain on an individual match basis , with the club nominated captain taking over when and if he is selected. Also, I presume that in the event of the club nominated captain not being selected that a club mate would assume captaincy if he is selected rather than management nominating a captain if such a scenario arises. Not sure. The County Championship winning team will nominate ONE captain,NO vice captain. If that captain is injured or dropped, then the County Chairman in consultation with Management Committe will nominate replacement. If Clifford is unavailable for any reason, it will not be Sherwood or Dara M.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 4, 2020 15:20:39 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Very disappointed with outcome and indeed surprised. However, that is democracy in action. As regards the management having the right to nominate the captain in the event of the nominated captain not being selected on the team, I presume that right will only obtain on an individual match basis , with the club nominated captain taking over when and if he is selected. Also, I presume that in the event of the club nominated captain not being selected that a club mate would assume captaincy if he is selected rather than management nominating a captain if such a scenario arises. Not sure. If Cluxton comes back this year he is likely to retain the captaincy. If Comerford is picked for the final, Cluxton will be the man to lift the cup and rightly so.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 4, 2020 16:23:07 GMT
I presume the club will nominate a captain from the county champions and the county management will nominate a vice-captain at the start of the year from one of their senior or leadership players. This doesn't have to be complicated at all.
It is great still that a club/district can win the championship and someone playing from a smaller club in a December district final can earn the Kerry captaincy.
There are several layers to this. Back in early '00s we have Dromid/Declan v St.Marys/Bryan playing in a December South Kerry Final for the honour to captain Kerry the following year after South Kerry had one the county final. You cant create more bite than that. I'm glad this hasn't been lost last night.
The county manager picking a vice captain is the safety net here. Common sense has prevailed.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 4, 2020 17:49:06 GMT
Gavin White had plenty to be doing in his first final trying to mark Jack McCaffrey without being saddled with the captaincy.
Who knows how the burden effected him. Jackie Tyrells head was melted by it as a youngster when made captain.
Small margins in that drawn game and McCaffrey was dominant.
Dublin are so much more professional in so many ways.
All a bit depressing like Veteran says.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 4, 2020 18:01:26 GMT
The motion to change the selection of the Kerry captain received a very narrow 50-48 majority tonight but failed to receive the two thirds majority it required to pass. However. The Chairman stated afterwards that in the event of the nominated captain (currently David Clifford) not being selected, then it would be management/executive who select his replacement. Very disappointed with outcome and indeed surprised. However, that is democracy in action.
As regards the management having the right to nominate the captain in the event of the nominated captain not being selected on the team, I presume that right will only obtain on an individual match basis , with the club nominated captain taking over when and if he is selected. Also, I presume that in the event of the club nominated captain not being selected that a club mate would assume captaincy if he is selected rather than management nominating a captain if such a scenario arises. Not sure. I wonder is it democracy though. What would interest me is how many clubs actually met and mandated their county board delegate to vote a certain way and if so, did the delegate do what they were told! And how many just let their delegates take a solo run at it. My reading of what Tim Murphy said is that if the nominated person is not playing, then the management decide who the captain is and that it wouldn't just go to the nominated captain's clubmate if he were selected on the team.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,850
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Post by peanuts on Feb 4, 2020 20:42:08 GMT
Very disappointed with outcome and indeed surprised. However, that is democracy in action.
As regards the management having the right to nominate the captain in the event of the nominated captain not being selected on the team, I presume that right will only obtain on an individual match basis , with the club nominated captain taking over when and if he is selected. Also, I presume that in the event of the club nominated captain not being selected that a club mate would assume captaincy if he is selected rather than management nominating a captain if such a scenario arises. Not sure. I wonder is it democracy though. What would interest me is how many clubs actually met and mandated their county board delegate to vote a certain way and if so, did the delegate do what they were told! And how many just let their delegates take a solo run at it. My reading of what Tim Murphy said is that if the nominated person is not playing, then the management decide who the captain is and that it wouldn't just go to the nominated captain's clubmate if he were selected on the team. . According to a report on kerrysportshub a number if delegates indicated they had been mandated by their clubs to vote against the motion.
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Post by john4 on Feb 4, 2020 21:15:50 GMT
From memory, this first became an issue around 2001 when Eoin Brosnan was nominated for Captain. He was on the fringes of making the starting 15 at the time, I think he might have only started 1 or 2 games that year and the captaincy issue was used as an excuse for the hammering by Meath (as well as the white jerseys). Some counties retain their captain year on year, Dublin and Donegal for example, while Donegal haven't had success because of it yet Dublin have. It's a red herring. Gavin White struggled on McCaffrey because McCaffrey is a very good footballer. I wouldn't like to see the day where there are only 14 jerseys up for grabs on any Kerry team because one of them is reserved for the captain.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 4, 2020 21:20:45 GMT
Hard to believe Kerry would have won 3-4 All-Irelands in the last decade with a FIXED cap e tan........!!!
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