brigid
Senior Member
Posts: 320
|
Post by brigid on Oct 20, 2019 20:32:51 GMT
Amend Rule 2.12 Mark - Rules of Football – Official Guide 2019 (Part 2) as follows:
(1) 2.12 Mark The Referee shall award a Mark in either of the following circumstances: (i) When a player catches the ball cleanly from a kick-out, without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the kick-out point. or (ii) When a player catches the ball cleanly on or inside a 45m line from a kick in play (i.e. not from set-play) delivered by an attacking player on or beyond the opposing team’s 45m line, that travels at least 20m and without it touching the ground.
The above (ii) was the PROPOSED new rule re the mark and I presume the wording was not changed. The kicker must be on the defending or further out than the defenders 45m line. The ball must be kicked at least 20m. There is no requirement that the ball must be kicked high. Only that it is caught without it touching the ground. The emphasis would appear to be on accurate kicking and good positional play by the forwards. A lot of the high balls into the full forward line are more than likely kicked from inside the opponents 45. So these will not count. There will be a lot of confusion here for refs - especially at club games where there are no neutral linesmen/umpires. Was the kicker outside the 45? Did the ball travel 20m?
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Oct 21, 2019 9:32:30 GMT
Some funny decisions taken on saturday last, the kickoutone is fine but the mark is too much in my book fundamentally changes the game for the worst.
I only caught the east kerry and dingle game, dara roche and paidi Clifford really stood put i thought. Would either be worth a look in the league? The 2 cliffords are almost telepathic.
Anyone else not in the kerry panel stand out for anyone who was at the games over the weekend?
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Oct 21, 2019 9:49:35 GMT
has Dara Roche played underage for Kerry?
|
|
|
Post by clarinman on Oct 21, 2019 9:58:51 GMT
has Dara Roche played underage for Kerry? Played 2 years with u21s. I think he's 24 now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 11:12:12 GMT
Some funny decisions taken on saturday last, the kickoutone is fine but the mark is too much in my book fundamentally changes the game for the worst. I only caught the east kerry and dingle game, dara roche and paidi Clifford really stood put i thought. Would either be worth a look in the league? The 2 cliffords are almost telepathic. Anyone else not in the kerry panel stand out for anyone who was at the games over the weekend? I thought the Brendan’s keeper was very good, much better than his counterpart playing for legion
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Oct 21, 2019 12:54:24 GMT
It seems that if you kick a ball twenty meters in certain areas of the field and the recipient picks it up at his ankles you are rewarded with a free shot. What Is to say in favour of this? Nothing in my view. If the recipient was obliged to catch the ball over his head perhaps one could make a case for it. Now all it will do is slow the game down , already littered with stoppages , while the recipient winds himself up for his free shot.
I suggested here several times that the handpass should be restricted to two consecutive handpasses but was reprimanded that the referee could not be burdened with counting handpasses! Now he is expected to count twenty metres. May God protect us from meddlesome people. Next innovation: the oval ball. Then our game will truly become a nursery for the AFL.
The sin bin of course will be a charter for cheats to run down the clock.
Do these legislators ever think about consequences and unintended consequences of rule changes. There are times when I think these people have a death wish in respect of our game.
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Oct 21, 2019 13:02:53 GMT
Some funny decisions taken on saturday last, the kickoutone is fine but the mark is too much in my book fundamentally changes the game for the worst. I only caught the east kerry and dingle game, dara roche and paidi Clifford really stood put i thought. Would either be worth a look in the league? The 2 cliffords are almost telepathic. Anyone else not in the kerry panel stand out for anyone who was at the games over the weekend? I thought the Brendan’s keeper was very good, much better than his counterpart playing for legion Dan O’Donoghue has impressed me at wing back the last night and against Strand Road. Brandon Barrett , also at wing back. Liam Kearney at midfield. I agree regarding Paudie Clifford and Eoghan O’Brien from Churchill in goals. Also, on the evidence of what I have seen from Jack Sherwood in the championship , he should be a starter. Very assured.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 21, 2019 13:04:32 GMT
It seems that if you kick a ball twenty meters in certain areas of the field and the recipient picks it up at his ankles you are rewarded with a free shot. What Is to say in favour of this? Nothing in my view. If the recipient was obliged to catch the ball over his head perhaps one could make a case for it. Now all it will do is slow the game down , already littered with stoppages , while the recipient winds himself up for his free shot. I suggested here several times that the handpass should be restricted to two consecutive handpasses but was reprimanded that the referee could not be burdened with counting handpasses! Now he is expected to count twenty metres. May God protect us from meddlesome people. Next innovation: the oval ball. Then our game will truly become a nursery for the AFL. The sin bin of course will be a charter for cheats to run down the clock. Do these legislators ever think about consequences and unintended consequences of rule changes. There are times when I think these people have a death wish in respect of our game. The sin bin will hasten the introduction of the shot clock. Is there any indication of how much time that player taking the mark is allowed to kick the ball? What if it were five seconds?
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Oct 21, 2019 13:58:59 GMT
If we beat cork are they into the mickey mouse cup then? As they are in div 3 or if they get promoted are they classed as a div 2 team?
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Oct 21, 2019 14:05:44 GMT
If they get out of Div 3 they wont be in Tier 2 if we beat them.
|
|
|
Post by greengold35 on Oct 21, 2019 14:10:13 GMT
It seems that if you kick a ball twenty meters in certain areas of the field and the recipient picks it up at his ankles you are rewarded with a free shot. What Is to say in favour of this? Nothing in my view. If the recipient was obliged to catch the ball over his head perhaps one could make a case for it. Now all it will do is slow the game down , already littered with stoppages , while the recipient winds himself up for his free shot. I suggested here several times that the handpass should be restricted to two consecutive handpasses but was reprimanded that the referee could not be burdened with counting handpasses! Now he is expected to count twenty metres. May God protect us from meddlesome people. Next innovation: the oval ball. Then our game will truly become a nursery for the AFL. The sin bin of course will be a charter for cheats to run down the clock. Do these legislators ever think about consequences and unintended consequences of rule changes. There are times when I think these people have a death wish in respect of our game. The sin bin will hasten the introduction of the shot clock. Is there any indication of how much time that player taking the mark is allowed to kick the ball? What if it were five seconds? A player making a mark has 15 seconds to take his kick - referees , already struggling with timekeeping will now have to oversee this plus watch from where a kick is taken & then decide if f it travelled the requisite 20 metres - difficult enough in inter county but what about the club? Senior, intermediate & junior club championships in April where it will be difficult to discern the 45 metre line due to weather conditions plus the sin bin - will linesmen be required to police this 10 minutes? Most county league games see one from each side patrol the line - there will be some fun with this! John Horan has bestowed some legacy !
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 21, 2019 17:51:12 GMT
I imagine 15 seconds is far too long.
|
|
|
Post by hatchetman on Oct 21, 2019 19:14:22 GMT
Would 15 seconds be too long? Most players will have a shot for a point. If it's the last kick of the game to win an all Ireland a player will want to take their time. Did they have a time limit in place during the trial in last year's league? You'd imagine this would have been discussed before bringing in the change.
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Oct 21, 2019 19:41:07 GMT
There was a 15 second limit in league
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 21, 2019 19:43:08 GMT
There was a 15 second limit in league Rarely adhered to..............
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 21, 2019 19:46:46 GMT
It seems that if you kick a ball twenty meters in certain areas of the field and the recipient picks it up at his ankles you are rewarded with a free shot. What Is to say in favour of this? Nothing in my view. If the recipient was obliged to catch the ball over his head perhaps one could make a case for it. Now all it will do is slow the game down , already littered with stoppages , while the recipient winds himself up for his free shot. I suggested here several times that the handpass should be restricted to two consecutive handpasses but was reprimanded that the referee could not be burdened with counting handpasses! Now he is expected to count twenty metres. May God protect us from meddlesome people. Next innovation: the oval ball. Then our game will truly become a nursery for the AFL. The sin bin of course will be a charter for cheats to run down the clock. Do these legislators ever think about consequences and unintended consequences of rule changes. There are times when I think these people have a death wish in respect of our game. This mark cheapens forward play. Agree we should oval the pitch and the ball also. It would be great PR for the GAA if a few players made it as top class forwards in Oz rather than defensive donkeys.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 23, 2019 9:29:50 GMT
Underage club football, goalie hoofs ball out to big midfielder, mark taken, big midfielder drives the ball in to big fullforward, mark taken and point taken.
Cluxton ping arrows out to one of many runners in the middle third, mark taken, ball popped into either of Rock, Mannion, O'Callaghan running in premeditated lines , mark taken, pop over point from that quality collection of inside forwards................
Looks like a poor call from Congress.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Oct 23, 2019 10:17:36 GMT
Rules need to work for the entire association and I think these latest rule changes ignore the majority of games and put more pressure on a referee - lack of pitch markings at club grounds (particularly underage games) will increase the number of "judgement" calls made by a ref who is frequently 30/40 meters away from the action. These judgement calls are already flash points in games and the source of major frustration with some officials. Will the mark be brought forward if a defender is deemed to interfere with the player who makes the mark - as other commenters say it is a very fundamental change to the rules of the game. On the positive side it seemed to work well during the league this year and it stops a team from sitting back too deep in defence. Also means all players will need to practice kicking at the posts
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Oct 23, 2019 11:12:06 GMT
See Quinlivan has decided to go travelling next year nearly guarantees that tipp will be in the 2nd tier next year. Imagine cork and derry will get promoted and clare will beat tipp imo. Id love to see figures for amount of county players in the bottom 2 tiers who leave after the league.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Oct 23, 2019 15:03:10 GMT
See Quinlivan has decided to go travelling next year nearly guarantees that tipp will be in the 2nd tier next year. Imagine cork and derry will get promoted and clare will beat tipp imo. Id love to see figures for amount of county players in the bottom 2 tiers who leave after the league. I'd say the bigger issue by far in terms of players in the bottom 2 divisions is the number who simply turn down invitations to be involved at intercounty level - Last year Billy Lee the Limerick manager said that 53 club players declined an invitation to be involved with the Limerick squad. The two tier system isn't perfect by any means but at least there it is some sort of effort to improve things - it should protect the bottom teams from getting 2 bad beatings if the qualifier draw goes against them - Antrim this year got drawn against Tyrone in Ulster and got beaten by 14 points, then in the qualifiers got drawn against Kildare and got beaten by 14 points again. As a comparison in the league in Division 4 they won 3 lost 4 this year. Their losing margins in the 4 games were 1 point, 4 points (difference was 2 scores 1-1) 1 point and 1 point.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Oct 23, 2019 15:09:05 GMT
See Quinlivan has decided to go travelling next year nearly guarantees that tipp will be in the 2nd tier next year. Imagine cork and derry will get promoted and clare will beat tipp imo. Id love to see figures for amount of county players in the bottom 2 tiers who leave after the league. I'd say the bigger issue by far in terms of players in the bottom 2 divisions is the number who simply turn down invitations to be involved at intercounty level - Last year Billy Lee the Limerick manager said that 53 club players declined an invitation to be involved with the Limerick squad. The two tier system isn't perfect by any means but at least there it is some sort of effort to improve things - it should protect the bottom teams from getting 2 bad beatings if the qualifier draw goes against them - Antrim this year got drawn against Tyrone in Ulster and got beaten by 14 points, then in the qualifiers got drawn against Kildare and got beaten by 14 points again. As a comparison in the league in Division 4 they won 3 lost 4 this year. Their losing margins in the 4 games were 1 point, 4 points (difference was 2 scores 1-1) 1 point and 1 point. Fair point which of course is impossible to quantify. If they had got rid of the provincials which has more drubbings while not agreeing with it i could at least understand that a real change had happened. All this does is remove 2 rounds of the qualifiers and creates a competition that failed in the last decade.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Oct 23, 2019 15:28:22 GMT
I'd say the bigger issue by far in terms of players in the bottom 2 divisions is the number who simply turn down invitations to be involved at intercounty level - Last year Billy Lee the Limerick manager said that 53 club players declined an invitation to be involved with the Limerick squad. The two tier system isn't perfect by any means but at least there it is some sort of effort to improve things - it should protect the bottom teams from getting 2 bad beatings if the qualifier draw goes against them - Antrim this year got drawn against Tyrone in Ulster and got beaten by 14 points, then in the qualifiers got drawn against Kildare and got beaten by 14 points again. As a comparison in the league in Division 4 they won 3 lost 4 this year. Their losing margins in the 4 games were 1 point, 4 points (difference was 2 scores 1-1) 1 point and 1 point. Fair point which of course is impossible to quantify. If they had got rid of the provincials which has more drubbings while not agreeing with it i could at least understand that a real change had happened. All this does is remove 2 rounds of the qualifiers and creates a competition that failed in the last decade.I think for the weakest counties the fact that they are pretty much guaranteed to get at least one game where they will be competitive has to be a positive. Also the fact that there is now a rule in place meaning that players can't transter abroad until their county is finished will mean you won't have lads hoping on planes once they go out of the provincial competitions should seriously help with buy-in. Always felt that was a fatal flaw with the Tommy Murphy Cup.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Oct 23, 2019 17:21:00 GMT
Fair point which of course is impossible to quantify. If they had got rid of the provincials which has more drubbings while not agreeing with it i could at least understand that a real change had happened. All this does is remove 2 rounds of the qualifiers and creates a competition that failed in the last decade.I think for the weakest counties the fact that they are pretty much guaranteed to get at least one game where they will be competitive has to be a positive. Also the fact that there is now a rule in place meaning that players can't transter abroad until their county is finished will mean you won't have lads hoping on planes once they go out of the provincial competitions should seriously help with buy-in. Always felt that was a fatal flaw with the Tommy Murphy Cup. Hadnt heard that rule, does that apply to all club players or just IC ?
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Oct 23, 2019 21:12:42 GMT
I think for the weakest counties the fact that they are pretty much guaranteed to get at least one game where they will be competitive has to be a positive. Also the fact that there is now a rule in place meaning that players can't transter abroad until their county is finished will mean you won't have lads hoping on planes once they go out of the provincial competitions should seriously help with buy-in. Always felt that was a fatal flaw with the Tommy Murphy Cup. Hadnt heard that rule, does that apply to all club players or just IC ? Inter-county only - the actual rule I think is that if you play (might be named in match day 26 - don't have the exact wording ) intercounty championship, you can't request a transfer overseas until your county is finished playing intercounty for the year.
|
|
|
Post by ballhopper34 on Oct 23, 2019 21:19:17 GMT
Hadnt heard that rule, does that apply to all club players or just IC ? Inter-county only - the actual rule I think is that if you play (might be named in match day 26 - don't have the exact wording ) intercounty championship, you can't request a transfer overseas until your county is finished playing intercounty for the year. So the lads will leave the county squad at the end of the league. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, as long as the management team know of the decision at the start of the league.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 24, 2019 7:28:16 GMT
Lots of rumblings in the media about the tier 2 competition. The tier 2 counties could end it quickly enough by not playing in it.
The backdoor competition played to a conclusion of one with that winner entering the final stages of the All-Ireland championship would probably have been a better fit and visually more acceptable to all.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 24, 2019 9:05:07 GMT
It seems to me there is very much a mix of views among the so called weaker counties.
Is John Horan the least impressive Uachtarán of all time?
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 24, 2019 10:19:00 GMT
I really think the division 3 and 4 teams should embrace this.
They can aspire to playing in the big one if they reach division 2 of the league.
They should look at the Joe McDonagh and Christy Ring competitions and the way these competitions allow weak counties to play competitive games with the finals in Croker.
Even the Leitrim hurlers got their day in the sun and they ended up lifting a cup on the steps of the Hogan.
|
|
|
Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 24, 2019 13:40:46 GMT
It seems to me there is very much a mix of views among the so called weaker counties. Is John Horan the least impressive Uachtarán of all time? Well he’s the most biased anyway- he’s the Dublin GAA chairman by a different name. Like that time Putin moved aside and allowed Medvedev to be the new Russian President but he was nominally doing the job anyway.
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Oct 24, 2019 13:55:09 GMT
Lots of rumblings in the media about the tier 2 competition. The tier 2 counties could end it quickly enough by not playing in it. The backdoor competition played to a conclusion of one with that winner entering the final stages of the All-Ireland championship would probably have been a better fit and visually more acceptable to all. agree in theory but isnt part of the issue that you could have cork/kerry, mayo/galway/roscommon (or even 2 of them), Dongel, Tyrone, Monaghan all entering that quite quickly if they get a bad draw or draw each other. i do think however that the winner or last 2 of tier 2 need to enter the championship itself at some stage.
|
|