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Post by Mickmack on Jul 24, 2019 12:11:01 GMT
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Limerick will be wary of Munster winners 'lay-off' jinx
By Christy O'Connor Journalist, author, All-Ireland club winning goalkeeper with Doora Barefield and coach
After Cork won the 2014 Munster title, the huge outpouring of emotion which followed was completely understandable.
It was Cork's first Munster title since 2006. It was the last big game in the old Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Cork avenged the previous year’s Munster final defeat to Limerick but, most of all, Cork had real momentum again. There was a sense that the empire was finally striking back.
Any talk of a rebel revolution though, came to a deadening halt five weeks later in the All-Ireland semi-final against Tipperary. Almost 70,000 turned up, which was the biggest crowd ever to watch Cork and Tipp face off, but only one team really turned up.
Tipp took a flamethrower to Cork’s ambitions. It was their biggest win over Cork in the championship since 1965. The Cork players and their manager left Dublin charred and blistered from the scorching.
Séamus Callanan celebrates finding the net for Tipp in the 2014 semi-final "We let ourselves down," said Jimmy Barry-Murphy about that experience before the following year’s league final. "Looking back on it, the five-week break was a major factor.
"If we were ever in that position again, I would use the time far differently. We had too much time together. We were doing the same thing over and over again. The players would have been far better off going back to their clubs for two weeks."
Since the hurling qualifier era began 13 years earlier, dealing with that five-week break had been a constant issue for the Munster champions. In eight of those 13 seasons, they had fallen at the All-Ireland semi-final stage.
Interestingly, on two of those five occasions when the Munster champions did advance to the final, they had only a three-week break because there were quarter-finals (which included the provincial champions) between 2005-07.
Since that 2014 All-Ireland semi-final, the stats haven’t got much better in the meantime for the Munster champions; in three of the following four seasons, the Munster winners have fallen at that penultimate stage.
To put more flesh on the numbers, on the 14 occasions since 2002 where the Munster champions have advanced directly to an All-Ireland semi-final, they have won just four times.
There’s even an asterisk beside some of those four wins; Cork drew with Wexford in 2003, before winning the replay; Tipperary annihilated Limerick in the 2009 semi-final by 24 points but Limerick were a shambles that season, effectively falling into the last four.
Tipperary manager Michael Ryan commiserates with Galway counterpart Micheál Donoghue after the 2016 semi-final As Munster champions in 2011 and 2016, Tipperary were deserving winners against Dublin and Galway but both All-Ireland semi-finals could still have gone either way, with Tipp winning by margins of four and one point respectively.
Those stats around the Munster champions are even more pronounced when compared to how Kilkenny mastered the long run-in. Of the 15 All-Ireland semi-finals Kilkenny won in the first 18 seasons under Brian Cody, 11 were secured after at least a four/five week lay-off.
Kilkenny had the best players but being able to expertly manage that extended layoff - and being able to replicate it before the final – was crucial to Kilkenny’s modern success.
Kilkenny mastered the art because they were so annually accustomed to it. In Munster, no one enjoyed that privilege because no team had been that dominant. Dublin’s emergence as a force, and Galway’s arrival into Leinster, made Kilkenny’s life more difficult in the province but they were still consistently able to get their timing right.
When other teams were entering August in that ideal groove of a game every two to three weeks, Kilkenny were still able to withstand that surge.
It's a rarity for Kilkenny to come through the back door under Brian Cody Saturday is Kilkenny’s first All-Ireland semi-final appearance since 2016 but it’s the first time since 2012 – and just their third time under Cody – to reach the last four through the back door.
Under Cody, the Cats were only beaten in an All-Ireland semi-final twice – by Galway in 2001 and 2005 – when they were Leinster champions.
Yet while Galway, in 2017 and 2018, maintained that remarkable consistency of the Leinster champions reaching the All-Ireland final, their Munster counterparts have continued to struggle at the same stage.
The break between the Munster final and All-Ireland semi-final is now down to four weeks but Cork couldn’t handle it again last year, just like they struggled to do so in 2014 and 2017. And that’s the big test facing Limerick on Saturday against Kilkenny.
This is a different team – who are now All-Ireland champions – but the last time Limerick were in this position as Munster champions, in 2013, they were well beaten by Clare.
After Limerick and Dublin won breakthrough provincial titles in 2013, Limerick manager John Allen and Dublin manager Anthony Daly met at a media event in Croke Park. Daly was quizzing Allen on Limerick’s approach. Allen was curious to know how Dublin were planning their preparations during the layoff.
They both seemed to agree that less might be better than more but neither was quite sure. In any case, Dublin and Limerick lost their semi-finals.
Dublin could have won that game only for the harsh sending off of Ryan O’Dwyer. That Leinster title was special for Dublin, just as Wexford’s breakthrough title was magical this year, and Galway’s historic first Leinster success was in 2012.
Yet, apart from those breakthrough Leinster title wins, does a Munster title mean more than a Leinster title, which – in turn – has made it harder for those Munster teams to win All-Ireland semi-finals in the modern era?
It’s just one theory because one of the great mysteries with the Munster champions’ struggles is comparing their plight to the other Munster teams which didn’t win the title that particular season.
Since the qualifier era began in 2002, nine Munster teams have reached an All-Ireland final through the back door.
Four of those sides – Cork in 2004, Tipperary in 2010, Clare in 2013 and Limerick in 2018 – went on to win the All-Ireland.
Kilkenny may have dominated that era with the greatest team in hurling history but the hard reality for Munster is that only two teams – Cork in 2005 and Tipperary in 2016 – have won Munster and All-Ireland titles in the same season since that qualifier era began.
The Munster championship has still remained cherished and unique and, while there were plenty of stages when the Leinster championship looked under threat from Kilkenny’s predictable dominance, those fears have certainly dissolved now.
Wexford claimed a first Leinster title since 2004 when beating Kilkenny Galway, Dublin and Wexford have now won five of the last seven Leinster titles. The baseline requirement for an interesting championship is to have three teams of equal standard but there has been four in Leinster over the last two seasons. How often have the Leinster and Munster championships had such a comparable number of high-quality teams at the same time?
The huge outpouring of emotion in Croke Park and the Gaelic Grounds four weeks ago underlined how much provincial titles still mean to teams. Yet the new challenge in such a manically competitive championship is how provincial finalists view those games in the context of the bigger picture?
Kilkenny and Tipperary would have gone at full-throttle to win those provincial titles but they still only measure themselves by All-Irelands. Under Davy Fitzgerald, Wexford have that ambition now too. And as All-Ireland champions, there is only one currency that Limerick trade in anymore.
Limerick and Kilkenny met at the All-Ireland quarter-final stage in 2018 This team is different but going into Saturday’s game as Munster champions has presented Limerick with a whole new challenge.
The players say their training sessions are as hard as any championship matches but dealing with an extended lay-off – something they didn’t handle well prior to their first championship match against Cork – will be harder again against a Kilkenny team pumped up for revenge after last year’s defeat, and with a confidence-restoring win against Cork under their belts.
And Limerick will have to try and break a code that so many of their predecessors as Munster champions have struggled to crack.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2019 9:46:12 GMT
By Derek McGrath
FacebookTwitterMessengerLinkedInWhatsAppMore Friday, July 26, 2019 - 06:30 AM
In the sporting realm, it’s obvious, but often under-appreciated in business is the maxim that you can’t get anything done without a team.
Lee C Bollinger noted, “you can only really succeed and accomplish things through the collective, the common purpose”.
Whilst Bollinger is not much of a hurling man, his expertise around the first amendment and the troubled history of a free press in America is unmatched. The first amendment guaranteed freedom of the press in seemingly clear terms but the president of Columbia University notes how this has evolved in response to social, political, educational, technological and societal change.
He stresses that even though the law will surely evolve in the coming years that a commitment to maintaining a press that is “uninhibited, robust and wide open” will sustain and progress.
His book of that name dominated my thoughts ahead of this weekend’s festival of hurling.
Not alone will we see the traditional principles associated with any successful team — the non-negotiable prerequisites of unity of purpose, attitude, honesty and relentless spirit, but we now see an uninhibited, changing game and mindset too.
Having only made two Championship appearances at senior level for Waterford between 1995 and 1999 I quickly fell into the category of one of those three-year minors who fell away for one reason or the other.
Self-awareness inherent, I stretched my senior club career to 20 seasons, though honing in on coaching and managing became my main focus. Whilst not being a great admirer of Clive Woodward’s persona, I was greatly influenced by his 2004 book, ‘Winning.
Many of the facets of preparation — perceived as over the top by some — impressed upon me the importance of detail while not eschewing the spontaneity that can exist in our ‘uninhibited sport’ too.
One conversation between Conor O’Shea and Woodward was particularly informative. Having noted that “one of the toughest skills to teach any athlete is how to think” Woodward would frown upon the ‘that’s the way we have always done it here’. He liked to challenge conventional wisdom” and asked O’Shea to stand with the forwards for the kick-off.
O’Sheas retort was informative: “I’m a full back. Full-backs don’t stand with the forwards”. Woodward’s response, urging O’Shea not to be ‘paralysed by an identity (number on his back), has echoes of all team approaches in the modern game. The guiding principle that the team is paramount is without question and teams are not successful unless every member is loyal and will subjugate their personal agenda to that of the team, but are we now at a stage where the duality and versatility of the players and management has resulted in a total hurling approach.
Fast forward to Sunday evening and you will hear the winning managers stress for the mics the simplicity of approach, the honesty of the group, the work rate. The forensic logistical and tactical strategising will remain a test for hurling minds to decipher.
Having been comprehensively outplayed by Liam Dunne’s Wexford in the summer of 2014, my family and I made our annual sojourn to Santa Ponsa. Once Sunday arrived, I took myself up to Sean’s Place, a local pub to watch Limerick and Kilkenny in a classic, rain-soaked semi-final.
It’s interesting now to hear the current Kilkenny group referred to as a new team. Hard to imagine then that eight of them played that day in the victory over the Treaty men. In fact, four of the backs - Paul Murphy, Joey Holden, Conor Fogarty and Cillian Buckley - were part of the defensive sextet with Pádraig Walsh nipping two points from wing forward.
My argument has been a consistent one around Kilkenny: The word ‘transition’ is not part of the vocabulary. The reality is that the cohort of a very experienced and good team is still there. TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly and Richie Hogan along with the aforementioned Walsh were four of the six forwards that day so where is the transition?
Interestingly only two outfield players - Graeme Mulcahy and then wing forward Declan Hannon - played with Limerick with Shane Dowling doing the bulk of the scoring.
A more telling benchmark is last year’s quarter-final and indeed the Cats’ game against Cork last Sunday week. Last year Richie Leahy came off the bench to torture a previously dominant Dan Morrissey, Richie Hogan gave Declan Hannon 15 minutes of trouble at the very start of the game, John Donnelly was only sprung with 10 minutes to go (and gave a sublime pass to Hogan for a goal) and crucially, Walter Walsh was absent through injury.
Subtle changes with a reconfiguration of their attack which saw Donnelly at 10 Mullen at 12 and TJ at 11 saw a perfect mix between doggedness, depth and skill and allowed both Joey Holden and Conor Fogarty sit only 20 yards from where Patrick Horgan and Alan Cadogan were causing mayhem. My point is that cohort of experience from 2014 has now been fused, with Mullen, Walsh, Donnelly with serious firepower from the bench also. Kilkenny will hardly repeat last year’s mistake in putting TJ in the corner on arguably the best man marker in the country, Sean Finn.
Yet for all Kilkenny’s undoubted strength, resolve, skill and spirit, it’s very difficult to look beyond Limerick at Croke Park tomorrow evening.
A quick look back at last year’s quarter-final pointed to the heroics of Eoin Murphy in denying Aaron Gillane on a couple of occasions. Even a glance at this year’s league meeting in Nowlan Park will remind that after 50 minutes, Limerick led by 2-16 to 0-8. The goalscorers were Conor Boylan and Shane Dowling who have not started a huge amount of games since.
The conundrum around the marking of TJ will occupy the thoughts of Kiely and Kinnerk. Hannon seems to be content to concede up to three points from play relying on the dogs of war (Hayes, Hegarty and Morrissey) to dovetail, with either Will O’Donoghue or Darragh O’Donovan to shut down that space.
Simultaneously the Adare man can dictate the play with short 10-yard stick passes to his deep wing forwards. He can expect to be hounded tomorrow and may have to use the handpass more than normal. Limerick have previous here in that they have been able to deal with scorers like Kelly and Bubbles with great clarity while still allowing Hannon to marry protection, marking and occasionally scoring.
Two moments from that league game this year were telling.
At half-time, Michael Rice interviewing the injured Richie Hogan asked him about the first half to which Richie replied: ‘Ah it’s very hard to play against a team with 12 men inside their own half’. It was a sharp observation from the Danesfort maestro and now they have had months to consider Limerick’s system. Even more telling and detailed was Kiely’s post-match interview when he talked of the first 20 minutes not having ‘the numbers where the ball was’.
This numbers strategy manifests itself with the All-Ireland champions being able to swamp that middle third often with both Mulcahy and Casey leaving Gillane one-on-one inside. If both Murphy and Holden don’t follow, Limerick have the game sense and playmaking abilities to keep possession creating runners off the shoulder. I would imagine that Casey’s success on James Barry in terms of his low centre of gravity may influence their decision around a possible match-up with Huw Lawlor and with Limerick’s ability to change we may see Gillane coming deeper to allow another assassin a run on goal.
Whilst preparing for Saturday’s game, I watched the Munster final back and I counted at least seven other goal-scoring chances Limerick had besides the brilliantly worked goal from Casey. The chance for Hegarty on 27 minutes was crafted brilliantly without the ultimate execution. Hayes goes to the 12 position while Tom Morrissey goes to 11. Crucially, Peter Casey comes right out behind Pádraig Maher and Morrissey but brings James Barry with him. All the while, Gearóid Hegarty is like a brilliant 200m bend runner stealing a march on Ronan Maher before straightening and receiving a pop pass from Morrisey. The route to goal has been opened by Casey’s movement and cleverness. Straight from the training ground, planned, scripted but ‘uninhibited, robust and wide open’.
The anger, indignation and energy Limerick brought to the Gaelic Grounds will have to present itself again in Croker tomorrow. This perfect fusion of work ethic and skill is evident in the figure of Kyle Hayes. His ability to hunt opposition half forwards but also score and be on the end of moves is telling and matched only by his counterparts Morrissey and the skilled Hegarty. By my reckoning, Hayes (with the exception of the Carlow preliminary round due to injury) has only been replaced once in the last two years, that after 64 minutes v Tipperary in the round-robin. His battle with Padraig Walsh will be intriguing.
The ‘jersey numbers mean nothing’ mantra applies more to Davy Fitzgerald and Wexford than any of the other semi-finalists. For Lee Chin’s 14th minute point in the Leinster final, take a look to your right and there are two possible out-balls to create a goal-scoring chance. The first would need a Bubbles-like arrowed pass to Conor McDonald, the second was a quick hand-pass to Paudie Foley, who had advanced while Mark Fanning’s puckout was in orbit. This is a regular occurrence for Davy’s teams. Dónal Óg Cusack and himself regularly encouraged Conor Cleary to be either under or on the breaks of a long puckout with the knowledge that Cian Dillon was sweeping. Now Kevin Foley provides that comfort.
Knowing Davy, I am sure he will have worked diligently again on being economical. It appears that a huge emphasis is placed in training on shooting and scoring but Davy will know that conversion and turning simple point-scoring chances into goals will be needed to advance to the August 17th final. He’ll have said to Rory O’Connor that if he finds himself in a position where a simple slip-pass to Paul Morris results in a goal, that the pass must be executed.
Likewise, he’ll be forensic on the need to shut down Tipperary’s main supplier in Noel McGrath and take down Callanan and John McGrath with respective markers. My guess is that Callanan may even go to 11 at the start with O’Hanlon picking him up but when he’s at 14, Liam Ryan will take him. A fully fit Damien Reck will be detailed to McGrath with Sean Murphy perhaps picking up Bubbles.
Wexford will take heart from Tipperary’s willingness to commit practically everyone forward against Laois. Because Laois had seven at the back, Cathal Barrett pressed high up the field. The danger there is that while it might be two v one at the back, there’s 60 yards of space that makes the clever runs of Conor McDonald and Paul Morris that bit more difficult to track. The athleticism of the Wexford midfield - normally consisting of five players in O’Keeffe, McGovern, Chin, Rory and Jack O’Connor - will be told to run and offload until the gaps appear.
Tipperary’s response will be interesting.
Those who live in a world that believes everything Tipp do is almost instinctive would do well to come into Bollinger’s ‘wide open’ world. Ten minutes into the second half of the 2016 Munster final, having raced into an eight-point lead, Declan Fanning passed by our subdued bench instructing Brendan Maher to pick up Paraic Mahony and telling Ronan Maher to “sweep, mind the house, not stir from the D”.
While the world lamented the ‘system failure’ of Waterford, the reality was completely different. These street smarts were evident during much of Tipp’s forward play during the first half against Laois which saw many of their assassins operate outside a defensive cordon provided by John Lennon.If you watch Seamie Callanan’s point from the first half, pause it on 7mins 10 secs and you’ll see Cathal Barrett on the Laois 45, with most of Tipperary’s shooters outside Lennon. In the very next play on 7 mins 39 secs, John Mc Grath has possession 60 yards out and Jason Forde whistles a chance just wide in a situation where he finds himself one v four.
These plots make Sunday’s semi the more intriguing encounter in many ways. Up to now, Wexford have mixed pushing six up on the opposition puckout before filtering Liam Og back out and Kevin Foley back to sweep, but given James Barry’s uncomfortable experiences with ball in hand the last day, will they opt for two covering three as Laois did?Given Sheedy’s ability to extract the absolute maximum from his players, he will hope that the mid-season dip of Noel McGrath, Bubbles, John McGrath and the pre-Munster final impenetrable Maher half-back line, can be re-energised and reinvigorated.
The supporting cast led by the likes of O’Meara, McCormack, Browne, Morris etc can bring a work ethic that will allow them flow.The change in our game has reflected change in society. Good change. After watching Cian Lynch, TJ Reid, Noel McGrath and Lee Chin over the weekend, pick up a copy of the ‘Playmakers Advantage’ by Leonard Zaichkowsky and Daniel Peterson and focus on the play-makers cognition, an acknowledgement that there is something more than just acquired skills and inherited abilities.
That there is “an intelligence that weaves together rules, tactics, emotions and actions during real-time competition.” This comes from not just a sixth sense but rather learning from many mistakes, where being initially overwhelming is replaced by things slowing down to a point where “awareness, familiarity and decision-making” becoming their pathway to success.Charles Darwin said in his book, The Descent of Man: “A tribe possessing a high degree of patriotism, fidelity, obedience, courage and sympathy, and to sacrifice themselves for the common good, would be victorious over most other tribes”.Limerick and Tipperary tribes to emerge and reach Middle Earth for the final act in a trilogy Tolkien would find hard to script.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2019 9:51:12 GMT
Jackie Tyrrell
I always felt All-Ireland semi-finals were like when you were a young teenager, full of life and mischief as you walked up to a nightclub door and approached the bouncers, bursting with excitement about how the night would unfold. Suddenly the large hand of the bouncer would be shoved in your face at the door.
“Not tonight, son.”
Disaster.
All-Ireland semi-finals feel like that because you arrive at them in hope rather than in expectation. You have earned nothing yet. Nobody owes you a place in an All-Ireland final and everything you’ve done up to that point counts for nothing. You’re either getting through the door or you’re not.
Losing the match was like getting refused because you had no ID. It was the biggest letdown and your world came crashing to a stop there and then. It was like you could see in the door of the nightclub and see your friends drinking away and having great fun without giving you a second’s thought.
You could hear the music as the strobe lights spilled out the door onto your miserable face and you weren’t taking part in any of it. You had convinced your parents to let you out, bought the nice new clobber and saved up the money. And it was all for nothing.
All-Ireland semi-finals are the worse stage to lose at. You’re left in limbo having been so close. You head off into the winter with nothing to hold onto. Your year is over at the worst possible time, just when you’re within touching distance of the thing you’ve been obsessed with for eight months. The what-ifs come from all sides of your mind and squat there until you can muster up the strength and energy to evict them.
I always said I’d prefer to be gone before a semi-final than to lose one. If your summer ends in a quarter-final or a qualifier, then you just weren’t good enough that year.
You don’t spend the winter wondering, you just knuckle down and bury it and promise yourself not to let it happen again. A semi-final defeat – unless you get a tanking – just leaves you wondering.
If you lose a final, well at least you got there. At least you made it to the day in the calendar that you had circled from the very start of pre-season. Any game can go any way on a given day so if you lose a final, well, that’s sport. But a semi-final defeat is just oblivion, neither here nor there. It’s the friend zone. You don’t want to be in the friend zone.
Extra defender The prize for the weekend’s winners is a place on the steps of greatness, touching distance of the holy grail.
So the prize this weekend is huge for the four teams involved. When I look deeply at the two games, I see a couple of completely different types of encounters.
Both games will involve a massive amount of preparation with a huge focus from management teams on tactics, hours of thought put into their teams, data on each stat, how each team will play, set-ups, match-ups, substitutes, shapes and all the rest of it. But to the naked eye, that tactical prep will be a lot more visible in the Wexford v Tipp game.
Laois probably did Tipperary a bit of a favour in setting up in a fairly similar way to how Wexford do. You could visibly see traces of how Tipperary will take on Wexford in parts of the Laois game. Laois deployed an extra defender and so Tipperary smartly used that game to explore the potential of a different type of sweeper in Brendan Maher.
They also allowed their two corner-backs Cathal Barrett and Alan Flynn to hunt down the withdrawn Laois attackers and to follow them out into the jungle that is the middle third. When they were out there, they weren’t just marking their men – they were actually contesting breaking ball in that sector and feeding on scraps.
The norm would be to sit on their own 65 and wait for them to come back into the Tipperary half before engaging with them. It was aggressive from Tipperary but it shows the bravery and innovation they possess. It will be interesting to see do they put it into action now against Wexford, who will obviously be a step up from Laois.
Tipperary have seen this type of team before – Waterford, Wexford in the league – so they know what comes with the territory. They’re not strangers to finding a way around a team playing with an extra defender. Go back to the 2016 Munster final and they actually played over Tadhg De Burca, rather than around him.
But they will need to heed the warning that there are more strings to this Wexford team’s bow now. In year three of Davy’s term, they are a better conditioned team than when he started. Their physicality was very evident in the Leinster final where they were strong in the tackle and made full use of the big men they have all over the pitch.
Electric pace They go looking for work and at all times they want make the game into a physical encounter. On top of that, they only shot three wides all day against Kilkenny. That sort of accuracy is pretty much unheard of in a high-stakes, nip-and-tuck game like that.
They vary their puck-outs, going short and running through the lines, going mid-range to Diarmuid O’Keeffe and Shaun Murphy and going long to catching targets like Lee Chin and Conor McDonald.
They biggest area of opportunity Wexford can use is the electric pace they have in abundance from midfield up. They possess huge pace and athleticism in O’Keeffe, Chin, Rory O’Connor, Liam Óg McGovern, Cathal Dunbar and Aidan Nolan from the bench. With Kevin Foley deploying a deep lying position that offers up huge space in the Tipperary defence and one thing Croke Park does is expose any lack of pace. I know it only too well – I spent 14 years trying to escape this trap, fire-fighting against pacy corner-forwards.
So how should the Tipperary defenders deal with it? There are times when you have to roll the dice. You can be in a vulnerable position, with space all around you and feeling isolated but that’s the time to be brave and push up on the forward’s shoulder.
First to the ball is key, deny them clean primary possession. JJ Delaney had a pain in his ear from me barking at him – as soon as his foot stepped over our own 65 an alarm went off in my mind. Stop! Back! I wouldn’t let him pass it and that had the same knock-on message to Michael Fennelly in front of him and Eoin Larkin as well. It meant you played and defended as a unit.
There will be times when it’s one-on-one and the Tipperary defence need to be brave I was never offered the luxury of an extra defender beside me but I didn’t want it. I was brought up in a culture of testing your defensive skills and instincts to cope with the best attackers. I felt an easy option was an extra defender and that you weren’t using all the coaching and time and effort invested in you as a player. It was a vote of no confidence in you as a defender.
Wexford will give Tipperary an extra defender and it will be a security blanket for plenty of the game. But there will be times when it’s one-on-one and the Tipperary defence need to be brave, play on the front foot and play as a unit, covering for each other. If they limit Kevin Foley’s influence and keep his possessions under 10 to 12 they have a great chance. For Wexford, hitting three wides is a hugely impressive stat but replicating it is even harder.
The trenches With Limerick and Kilkenny, the various tactical manoeuvrings won’t be as evident but they’re still crucial. The devil will be in the detail. Both teams will have deep-lying half-forward lines that will practically mark each other across the middle of Croke Park.
That space between the 65s will be totally compressed, bodies upon bodies. And that’s where the game will be won and lost. Covering each other’s half-back lines, so they can drop off deep and cut off the channels to the two inside forwards on either side. A game of possession and distribution, dictated by who wins in the trenches around the middle.
The key players here for Limerick are Kyle Hayes and Gearóid Hegarty. They use their physicality so well in this area, getting in around the ball, winning it when the bodies are flying all around them and then, crucially, always being able to turn and find Declan Hannon, Diarmaid Byrnes or Cian Lynch in space to laser ball into Limerick’s inside line.
Kilkenny have plenty of strong, physical players in this regard too but it’s Hayes and Hegarty who generally dictate matters in around here. Kilkenny have to break even against them to have a chance. If they do, then the quality of ball going into Colin Fennelly and Richie Hogan in the full-forward line improves and Kilkenny’s chances improve accordingly.
Kilkenny haven't lost an All-Ireland semi-final since 2005 Limerick probably have the edge on form, on consistency, on the momentum they’re building as they go on collecting trophies. But Kilkenny haven’t lost an All-Ireland semi-final since 2005. They’ve made the last four 10 times since then and always made the final. These are different players at different stages in their careers but they have that one constant – the man in charge and the effort he demands from them.
Kilkenny will die with their boots on. Limerick won’t beat them unless they do the same.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2019 22:30:13 GMT
It all fell nicely into place for Limerick in 2018.
They came in third place in Munster and built up a head of steam in the business end as they say.
Their QF v KK was a close tense game and two late points edged it for Limerick after KK looked to have won it with a goal late on.
Cork could and perhaps should have beaten them in the SF and only a brilliant save from Quaid their keeper kept them in it. In extra time their superior panel won it.
Galway were a spun out team in the final yet heroics from Joe Canning almost snatched a draw in a game that Limerick should have won easily enough.
Fireworks will take place at 6pm tomorrow. Unlike last years QF, this is in Croker and KK like playing there. KK have found a few more to put scores on the board apart from TJ Reid.
KK have performed in every game this year even when losing to Galway and Wexford narrowly.
Was Limericks demolition of Tipp the sign that they were going through the motions in Munster with everything being focused on the final three games of the chsmpionship?
Or did Tipp just have one of those days.
Limerick have the better panel.
KK will play with a hunger and brio that Limerick have not encountered in Croke Park yet and are unlikely to match.
I have a hunch the cats will win.
Cant wait!
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Post by dc84 on Jul 27, 2019 10:30:49 GMT
It all fell nicely into place for Limerick in 2018. They came in third place in Munster and built up a head of steam in the business end as they say. Their QF v KK was a close tense game and two late points edged it for Limerick after KK looked to have won it with a goal late on. Cork could and perhaps should have beaten them in the SF and only a brilliant save from Quaid their keeper kept them in it. In extra time their superior panel won it. Galway were a spun out team in the final yet heroics from Joe Canning almost snatched a draw in a game that Limerick should have won easily enough. Fireworks will take place at 6pm tomorrow. Unlike last years QF, this is in Croker and KK like playing there. KK have found a few more to put scores on the board apart from TJ Reid. KK have performed in every game this year even when losing to Galway and Wexford narrowly. Was Limericks demolition of Tipp the sign that they were going through the motions in Munster with everything being focused on the final three games of the chsmpionship? Or did Tipp just have one of those days. Limerick have the better panel. KK will play with a hunger and brio that Limerick have not encountered in Croke Park yet and are unlikely to match. I have a hunch the cats will win. Cant wait! Should be an absolute belter! It won't be for the faint hearted you would imagine that limericks youth and better squad will eventually get the better of Kilkenny but those boys never know when they are beaten and the four ballyhale forwards are just pure class some serious match ups out there wish RTE had player cam!
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Post by veteran on Jul 27, 2019 18:53:34 GMT
Heartbroken for Limerick. I thought nothing would touch them after the display against Tipp. On the other hand it is their third defeat in the championship.
Will we ever learn . You just do not doubt Kilkenny,
All the excitement has been in Leinster this year for a good reason.
Surprised TJ got man of the match. Missed a vital free and messed up a few sideline cuts. Padraig Walsh would have been my choice. Indestructible. But the team win is all that matters.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2019 22:21:18 GMT
For 20 years now Cody has been sending teams out to play with great pride in the jersey, spirit, bravery and resiliance.
At times he picks players that do not appear to have the requisite skill for this level and who would not get a look in in other counties but they are there to do jobs where the skill is hooking, blocking and workrate.
For a few years there only TJ and Richie Hogan seemed capable of scoring but 19 year old Adrian Mullen is a huge find this year and Fennelly is popping up with a goal and a few points in every game.
This game was played entirely on KKs terms and Limericks intricate hand passing game was strangled at every opportunity.
The other aspect is that KK were simply better at taking scores whereas Limerick carried on from where they left off the last time they were in Croker in the championship....last years final....with a 50% conversion rate. KKs was around 66%.
I cant ever understand why Shane Dowling isnt on the pitch for longer.... he nearly saved Limerick again like he did v Cork last year.
KKs minors gave a fancied Limerick side a right pasting in the second half, capped off by two points from their keeper from frees from over 100 yards, the last one not being counted because the ref blew full time with the ball in flight.
The next great KK team is not far away.
A stunning occasion on a beautiful evening in high summer.
Limerick can learn from this and come back but they need a plan B for when they meet KK as their gameplan is too convoluted and too easily disrupted.
They should of course had a 65 at the end as the line ball was deflected by a KK man.
KK deserved to win it though. Their two recent games in Croker....the Leinster final and the Cork game were ideal preparation for this.
Limerick have been hot and cold all summer. It is hard to retain it.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2019 22:43:22 GMT
A KK v Tipp final will take on a life of its own such is the rivalry and bitterness.
A KK v Wexford final would be equally novel.
Tipp have skill and class coming out their ears but will they be given the time and space to display it?
Wexford have drawn with and beaten KK in the two best games of the year.
This is a huge opportunity for Wexford and they have every chance of winning it.
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maryo
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Post by maryo on Jul 28, 2019 12:21:01 GMT
Heartbroken for Limerick. I thought nothing would touch them after the display against Tipp. On the other hand it is their third defeat in the championship. Will we ever learn . You just do not doubt Kilkenny, All the excitement has been in Leinster this year for a good reason. Surprised TJ got man of the match. Missed a vital free and messed up a few sideline cuts. Padraig Walsh would have been my choice. Indestructible. But the team win is all that matters.
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maryo
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Post by maryo on Jul 28, 2019 12:25:03 GMT
Agree re man of match, as a Kerrywoman living in Limerick I'm heartbroken for them. Wides and slow start killed them and even though blatant 65 and I was right beside it KK just about deserved it. Limerick supporters were very confident and as the old saying says"walk easy when your jug is full" Heartbroken for Limerick. I thought nothing would touch them after the display against Tipp. On the other hand it is their third defeat in the championship. Will we ever learn . You just do not doubt Kilkenny, All the excitement has been in Leinster this year for a good reason. Surprised TJ got man of the match. Missed a vital free and messed up a few sideline cuts. Padraig Walsh would have been my choice. Indestructible. But the team win is all that matters.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2019 12:43:30 GMT
imagine how sick Limerick will be if Tipp go on and win it out!
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 28, 2019 14:34:38 GMT
imagine how sick Limerick will be if Tipp go on and win it out! Very open now, sorry to see Limerick going out, hopefully Wexford can go on and with the championship.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 28, 2019 14:37:37 GMT
Mad start to the hurling!
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Post by southward on Jul 28, 2019 15:37:35 GMT
Tipp will be fairly aggrieved over the two disallowed goals.
Imagine if Hawkeye had determined the Lee Chin's strike hadn't gone over after all.
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Post by veteran on Jul 28, 2019 16:20:03 GMT
Three disallowed goals, a man sent off and a square Wexford goal. I am not sure we have witnessed a more heroic display by any team in any code than we saw from Tipperary today.
So, a Kilkenny/Tipp final. The way it usually has been.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 28, 2019 16:22:06 GMT
Epic stuff from Croker, Tipp v Cats will be compulsive viewing. Cody v Sheedy, box office. Better team won today.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2019 16:29:07 GMT
How did Wexford lose a five point lead with an extra man.
The post mortem will be difficult for them.
I suppose the answer is Tipps subs all made an impact.
Two epic matches over the weekend. Its great now that both semi finals are on the same weekend.
Two draws in 2018. A one point win and a two point win in 2019 semi finals.
Todays game was astonishing.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2019 18:20:39 GMT
the penalty is a great addition to hurling as a spectacle
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 28, 2019 18:56:49 GMT
Tipp will be fairly aggrieved over the two disallowed goals. Imagine if Hawkeye had determined the Lee Chin's strike hadn't gone over after all. I am reasonably confident that Hawkeye wouldn't have made itself known if it wasn't a point.
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1979
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Post by 1979 on Jul 28, 2019 19:00:22 GMT
How did Wexford lose a five point lead with an extra man. The post mortem will be difficult for them. I suppose the answer is Tipps subs all made an impact. Two epic matches over the weekend. Its great now that both semi finals are on the same weekend. Two draws in 2018. A one point win and a two point win in 2019 semi finals. Todays game was astonishing. Fully agreed re the subs. Unfortunately, the Wexford subs made no impact. This will be a hard one for them to swallow. Credit must go to our management for developing a real squad that can be relied upon. These days you won’t win the major prizes without a group of 24+ that can be counted on.
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1979
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Post by 1979 on Jul 28, 2019 19:05:48 GMT
The Tipp fans were aggrieved with the ref after the game, and that was after winning it!
Not sure he was as biased as they were suggesting. Granted, he didn’t use the advantage rule for the third disallowed goal, but the first 2 were disallowed for good reason. John McGrath (not a dirty player imo) also had to walk. Finally, Wexford were denied a decent shout at a penalty in the 2nd half.
We’ve spoken on other threads about referees and bias lately, you would have to question appointing a ref from KK for this match.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2019 21:13:57 GMT
Jake Morris came today for Tipp and slotted a crucial score.
On Wednesday he slotted a last second goal beat Cork in the Munster u20 hurling final.
I assume he wont take any more part in the u20 series due to his involvement today.
Or do different rules apply in hurling.
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Post by clarinman on Jul 28, 2019 21:51:37 GMT
Jake Morris came today for Tipp and slotted a crucial score. On Wednesday he slotted a last second goal beat Cork in the Munster u20 hurling final. I assume he wont take any more part in the u20 series due to his involvement today. Or do different rules apply in hurling. Different rule in hurling for some unknown reason?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 28, 2019 22:02:32 GMT
Jake Morris came today for Tipp and slotted a crucial score. On Wednesday he slotted a last second goal beat Cork in the Munster u20 hurling final. I assume he wont take any more part in the u20 series due to his involvement today. Or do different rules apply in hurling. Different rule in hurling for some unknown reason? I am not sure but U-21 hurling used to run concurrently with the senior. IIRC the football U-21 used to run off before the senior.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 29, 2019 0:32:15 GMT
The Munster games were amazing yet winners were subsequently beaten - so the key is that matching teams of similar standard makes for good entertainment, and that was the ethos of what some of us proposed re the mismatches in football. i.e. group teams from bottom up as they get beaten in a given year, so 4 x 8 of 1 x (super) 8 + 2 x 12, each playing out their own All Ireland. Though there are few dead rubbers in Super 8s, do the great games make up for it? O'Rourke is very negative in The Sindo, while Rebels v Rossies won't be a full house, it should be a competitive game, and Tyrone v Dubs may well be a cracker. Us v Dgal was one of the best games ever played -and regional venues have to be experienced to be believed, magic, Omagh and Clones last year were festivals, pure carnivals, Tyronies admiring Dubs machine in terrace, like pigs in * they were, not that there would be but not a bad word, ah GAA will have picked up on that, sure Thurles is the same for the MSHF, Killarney MSFF -great days ahead.
Now just imagine us as AI champs getting the customary welcome in our away League games next year, a pure hoor I am, no pressure now lads! And then imagine the welcome we would get in our away Championship games, still no pressure!
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Post by glengael on Jul 29, 2019 9:44:47 GMT
I thought it was gone from Tipp with the loss of McGrath and goal but they outscored Wexford when it mattered. Morris had a big impact. Both Tipp and KK will be hungry for success after being 'sidelined' for the last 2 seasons. Each will be trying to prove that they've got the rebuilding right after last year's early exits.
Really heartbroken for Limerick. They were great ambassadors and wonderful supporters.
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Post by veteran on Jul 29, 2019 10:22:25 GMT
More often than not I don't bother with the Sunday Game any more. It leaves me with an empty feeling after listening to a cliché laden discussion, too often with an agenda , too often partisan. I did tune in last night wishing to see those two memorable weekend contests again. The panel consisted of Derek McGrath, Donal og Cusack and Brendan Cummins. It was pleasing to see the games again but the "analysis"! I will spare Brendan Cummins from any criticism> He comes across as a likeable guy with no baggage. The other two were insufferable.
A large segment of the analysis consisted of an ode to their own managerial career, with a nod to their buddy, Davy Fitzgerald. Donal og always comes across to me as self righteous, pompous whose opinions we are expected to treat as ex cathedra. One gets the impression that he is always speaking to an enemy out there in the ether, perhaps the Cork County Board. Maybe those battles left him scarred and sour. He was making some point last night in the context of the sweeper system and invoked British colonial history! Yes, I too have no idea what his point was. Of course , when he takes to displaying graphics in the "space control room" we are treated to the game of hurling being distilled to a labyrinthine, obscure, unfathomable game of chess. Some body should tell him that wild games like football and hurling are generally characterised by spontaneity, fortified by an unquenchable will to win, with just a smidgen of tactics thrown in for flavour and variety. Of course we see this temptation in "civilian" life as well, a passion to eschew the simple in favour of the arcane interpretation. Novels, poetry, music, paintings etc are given obscure "meanings" which one can safely say in most cases the artist never intended.
Derek McGrath was no better. On one occasion he prattled on about, while as a Waterford manager, he sat at home in bewilderment listening to the Sunday Game panellists. Frankly, it was not clear whether he was praising or criticising the panellists. Derek and Donal og, I should not have to remind you that the Sunday Game is not about you two, but then I suppose it is not easy to accept that fact if you are afflicted with a big ego.
So, we were treated to a treatise on hurling via a slide rule while there was no in depth discussion, for instance, on why three Tipperary goals were disallowed. They did highlight the most contentious, I suppose, incident of the weekend- the 65 which was not awarded to Limerick. The solution from our two egotists? The predictable two referee solution. A set piece in full view of the referee, side line official and the near umpire needs to be overseen by a further official? Get off the stage for God sake.
Finally, I watched the last ten minutes or so of the Galway/Wexford minor game. A melee developed near the Galway goal line. This was no handbags. Hurleys and fists were flying. It was as nasty an incident as I have ever witnessed on a playing field. So, nasty that one of the Galway players was removed on a stretcher. Was this highlighted on the Sunday Game? No siree. Very likely it would not be consistent with the purity of the chess board analysis of the art of hurling that the two boys had inflicted on us.
After watching the Sunday Game I could not help wondering what Brian Cody would have thought of the two boys. Windbags could be an expression he might have used.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2019 11:55:43 GMT
Can anyone enlighten me as to whether the linesman could have intervened on Saturday to tell the ref that the umpire was incorrect in flagging it wide and in fact a 65 was due to Limerick?
In other words, was doing that outside of the remit of the linesman?
If it was within his remit then he should have acted as he had to have seen it.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 29, 2019 12:02:02 GMT
I thought it was gone from Tipp with the loss of McGrath and goal but they outscored Wexford when it mattered. Morris had a big impact. Both Tipp and KK will be hungry for success after being 'sidelined' for the last 2 seasons. Each will be trying to prove that they've got the rebuilding right after last year's early exits. Really heartbroken for Limerick. They were great ambassadors and wonderful supporters. When I heard the Limerick supporters booing the Kilkenny free taker early on I made my mind up there and then who I wanted to win. Also, listening to a few of them at the League final, one would have been forgiven for thinking they had won 5 or 6 All Irelands this decade alone.
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Post by Lolly Valance on Jul 29, 2019 12:06:00 GMT
Two great hurling matches the weekend. Think the ref yesterday was a bit out of his depth from early on. Couldn't seem to stamp any authority on the game. Seemed almost apologetic when making some calls.
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