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Post by kerrygold on Aug 4, 2019 17:23:49 GMT
Next Sunday will be Dublin's first competitive championship game since the 2017 All-Ireland Final. Interesting opportunity for battle hardened Mayo.
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Post by beantownfan on Aug 4, 2019 17:44:32 GMT
For the super 8s should it be changed (as many have suggested on the inter-web) to have the winners of the first round play each other in the second game (at a truly neutral venue), and same for the losers. That way there is less chance for 2 teams to be on 4 and two teams on zero going into the final round. You could still end up with an occasional dead rubber, where the team that wins the first two games plays the team that lost their first two games as the final game of the group, but in such a situation the other final game of the group at least would be competitive as both teams would have won one. From a purely selfish point of view I like the super 8s as it gives Kerry a chance to get competitive games under our belt. Munster seems to be going backwards (apart from now maybe Cork), so this young team could end up learning a lot of lessons in a quarter final where they come in 'cold'.
At least it has set up for an exciting weekend next weekend, albeit there should be a 2 week break to prep for an All Ireland semi final!
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,108
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 4, 2019 19:51:40 GMT
Surprisingly enough a game like the one today can tell you a lot about the 2 teams. Dublin went in there without a grand plan so you get to see what the full extent of what players have to offer playing off the cuff. Then you can see what the game plans are designed for. We saw Paddy Small kicking the ball into the keepers hands from about 30 metres - something that would never happen when the plan to keep recycling the ball until Rock is in the perfect spot in the D to have the perfect shot. Rock will play every game from now on. Also the goal that normally comes at about 60 minutes to open the floodgates didn't come until about 74 minutes, too late for the floodgates.
I know Dublin rested a few big names today but I think Gavin made a mistake by not going for the jugular and having the game won after 20 / 25 minutes. Class is permanent and I know he has got it but Connolly is not up to speed for All Ireland final standard of football and that is where we are at now. He will not get it in the next 4 weeks. Rory O'Carroll couldn't read the flight of the ball several times and gave up easy chances so it appears that experiment has failed.
Jim has big decisions to make and in the words of Ronan O'Gare they are the chased rather the chaser. The odds are always with the hound.
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Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 381
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Post by Hicser on Aug 4, 2019 23:12:24 GMT
The short turn around for Tyrone & Dublin doesn’t really exist as they played their B teams, so effectively they have had a 2 week break before their semis, another abnormality if the Super 8s, On the other side if suits a young team like Kerry to play more games and try to get battle hardened for what’s ahead,
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Aug 4, 2019 23:25:47 GMT
Being played at an intensity that falls way short of an actual semi final will have thought both managers pretty much nothing. I think the game and pressures brought with it v Meath to be a much more valuable experience for Kerry. What did today’s game tell Harte about his starting 15? Will any of today’s starters be in next Sunday? Maybe Hampsey and McCann who are backbone players anyway. Today provided more potential for confusion than clear direction. Where’s Dermot these days for a red hand viewpoint?
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Post by southward on Aug 4, 2019 23:57:19 GMT
I don't get people saying that the super 8s are dead because of today's games. Dead rubbers can occur in round robin formats but there were only two of them out of twelve super 8 games this year (were there any last year?) so big deal.
What's the alternative anyway?- back to the way it was with every game in Croke Park? Let's face it, there were plenty of piss-poor, one-sided quarter-finals in a half-empty Croker prior to the super 8s. No more big occasions in Killarney or Castlebar or Clones? Is this really what people want?
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 5, 2019 1:38:24 GMT
I don't get people saying that the super 8s are dead because of today's games. Dead rubbers can occur in round robin formats but there were only two of them out of twelve super 8 games this year (were there any last year?) so big deal. What's the alternative anyway?- back to the way it was with every game in Croke Park? Let's face it, there were plenty of piss-poor, one-sided quarter-finals in a half-empty Croker prior to the super 8s. No more big occasions in Killarney or Castlebar or Clones? Is this really what people want? Have to say that Clones last year and Killarney this year we're stand out matches. But the flip side of that is Killarney last year and Navan this year. It's great to get late Championship games outside CP but isthe excitement is in the venue rather than.the competition format? If that is the case could we not go back to the original QF format and take the matches out of Croke Park to neutral venues. Or if something different is needed make them two leg aggregate matches with home and away legs. The latter would even allow Dublin to play one "Home" game in Croke Park
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Post by yourholiness on Aug 5, 2019 7:56:21 GMT
I think every match from the Super 8’s should be in a provincial venue. It creates demand , encourages enthusiasm and generates a great atmosphere .
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Post by egbabroad on Aug 5, 2019 9:13:32 GMT
I don't get people saying that the super 8s are dead because of today's games. Dead rubbers can occur in round robin formats but there were only two of them out of twelve super 8 games this year (were there any last year?) so big deal. What's the alternative anyway?- back to the way it was with every game in Croke Park? Let's face it, there were plenty of piss-poor, one-sided quarter-finals in a half-empty Croker prior to the super 8s. No more big occasions in Killarney or Castlebar or Clones? Is this really what people want? Have to say that Clones last year and Killarney this year we're stand out matches. But the flip side of that is Killarney last year and Navan this year. It's great to get late Championship games outside CP but isthe excitement is in the venue rather than.the competition format? If that is the case could we not go back to the original QF format and take the matches out of Croke Park to neutral venues. Or if something different is needed make them two leg aggregate matches with home and away legs. The latter would even allow Dublin to play one "Home" game in Croke Park I think the Super 8's has gone well. The only change I would make is too space out the matches allowing 2 weeks between each game and 2 weeks between the last game and the semi. This would mean squeezing the calendar for the Provincials and maybe putting the final back a week or 2. It is hard going for a team coming through the back door (i.e. Mayo), who get into the Super 8's and don't get any recovery time.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 5, 2019 9:22:06 GMT
They are calling yesterdays game the "Coma in Omagh".
However, had Cork beaten or drawn with Tyrone you would have had a different scenario.
Tyrone would have put out a strong team and so would Dublin.
Cork v Ros would have mattered.
You need 3 competitive teams capable of beating each other to make the super 8 work.
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Post by southward on Aug 5, 2019 9:26:09 GMT
I don't get people saying that the super 8s are dead because of today's games. Dead rubbers can occur in round robin formats but there were only two of them out of twelve super 8 games this year (were there any last year?) so big deal. What's the alternative anyway?- back to the way it was with every game in Croke Park? Let's face it, there were plenty of piss-poor, one-sided quarter-finals in a half-empty Croker prior to the super 8s. No more big occasions in Killarney or Castlebar or Clones? Is this really what people want? Have to say that Clones last year and Killarney this year we're stand out matches. But the flip side of that is Killarney last year and Navan this year. It's great to get late Championship games outside CP but isthe excitement is in the venue rather than.the competition format? If that is the case could we not go back to the original QF format and take the matches out of Croke Park to neutral venues. Or if something different is needed make them two leg aggregate matches with home and away legs. The latter would even allow Dublin to play one "Home" game in Croke Park Certainly agree with taking all the matches out of Croke Park, though every team should have at least one home game. I'm in favour of the super 8s though. The complaint for years was that there wasn't enough games in the championship, especially for teams outside of the top tiers. Here's an opportunity for the likes of Roscommon and Meath to get multiple high-level competitive games instead of a once-off drubbing by the Dubs or whoever. And that opportunity is something that's achieveable for a lot of teams. Some hysterical comment in the media on the back of Omagh. Like I said, it's one game, and probably had as much to do with the crazy timing of the semi-finals as anything else. btw, Killarney last year couldn't be classed as a dead rubber; it was all to play for beforehand. And Cork v Roscommon yesterday sounds like it was spicy enough. Ciaran Whelan put his finger on it last night - people just looking for the negative in everything.
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Post by yourholiness on Aug 5, 2019 9:34:33 GMT
Dublin’s neutral venue match has to moved from Croke Park . Semple would be an option . The administrators need to realise that the heady days of Croke Park being sold out for every Dublin fixture is no longer realistic. The decline in numbers as far as I can recall began in 2010 .
The match that year against Wexford was very poorly attended and then all the way through the backdoor until the Tyrone match .
I think the 2009 loss to Kerry saw the Dublin support shed the more fair weather supporters.
Next year Dublin and Kerry should be in the same group which would mean that the neutral venue could be Semple. I’d love that even though the memories from the matches in 2001 are painful . The Russians Are right. Nostalgia is a form of mental illness.
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Post by john4 on Aug 5, 2019 9:38:56 GMT
I think every match from the Super 8’s should be in a provincial venue. It creates demand , encourages enthusiasm and generates a great atmosphere . I don't think that the Gaa are opposed to the idea of moving matches out of Croke Park as such, but their problem is that they have sold thousands of premium level memberships over the years where one of the conditions of these packages included the all Ireland quarter finals.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 5, 2019 9:40:24 GMT
Negatrons and energy saps are to be avoided at all costs.
Football is to be enjoyed. The key to a long life is happiness and being grateful is the key to happiness.
We are privileged to see these days and an awful lot will be decided between now and September.
I will be very happy if Dublin don't do it but I will cry tears of intense and lasting pride if Kerry win the All Ireland.
They have no right to but these are exceptional young men.
This rant is not important but one needs to optimist and optimism against the gluts of misery.
I saw David Clifford kick points.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 5, 2019 9:43:25 GMT
Dublin’s neutral venue match has to moved from Croke Park . Semple would be an option . The administrators need to realise that the heady days of Croke Park being sold out for every Dublin fixture is no longer realistic. The decline in numbers as far as I can recall began in 2010 . The match that year against Wexford was very poorly attended and then all the way through the backdoor until the Tyrone match . I think the 2009 loss to Kerry saw the Dublin support shed the more fair weather supporters. Next year Dublin and Kerry should be in the same group which would mean that the neutral venue could be Semple. I’d love that even though the memories from the matches in 2001 are painful . The Russians Are right. Nostalgia is a form of mental illness. Would you favour a home and away arrangement between Kerry and Dublin for the super 8 games. Why go to Thurles when the train goes all the way to Killarney. If the super 8 have proved anything it is that playing at home makes a difference. Dublins two home games is a perversion of fair play. I am not having a pop at you btw.... you are representative of fair minded dubs fans who want change.
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Post by yourholiness on Aug 5, 2019 11:38:32 GMT
Dublin’s neutral venue match has to moved from Croke Park . Semple would be an option . The administrators need to realise that the heady days of Croke Park being sold out for every Dublin fixture is no longer realistic. The decline in numbers as far as I can recall began in 2010 . The match that year against Wexford was very poorly attended and then all the way through the backdoor until the Tyrone match . I think the 2009 loss to Kerry saw the Dublin support shed the more fair weather supporters. Next year Dublin and Kerry should be in the same group which would mean that the neutral venue could be Semple. I’d love that even though the memories from the matches in 2001 are painful . The Russians Are right. Nostalgia is a form of mental illness. Would you favour a home and away arrangement between Kerry and Dublin for the super 8 games. Why go to Thurles when the train goes all the way to Killarney. If the super 8 have proved anything it is that playing at home makes a difference. Dublins two home games is a perversion of fair play. I am not having a pop at you btw.... you are representative of fair minded dubs fans who want change. Yep the two games in Croke Park is a travesty and undermines the whole concept of the Super 8’s . I would gladly accept a home/ away arrangement. Anything is better than the current arrangement .
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 5, 2019 12:41:48 GMT
Would you favour a home and away arrangement between Kerry and Dublin for the super 8 games. Why go to Thurles when the train goes all the way to Killarney. If the super 8 have proved anything it is that playing at home makes a difference. Dublins two home games is a perversion of fair play. I am not having a pop at you btw.... you are representative of fair minded dubs fans who want change. Yep the two games in Croke Park is a travesty and undermines the whole concept of the Super 8’s . I would gladly accept a home/ away arrangement. Anything is better than the current arrangement . Fair pkay .....if Dublin win the five in a row i will raise a glass to you.
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kot
Fanatical Member
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Post by kot on Aug 5, 2019 13:11:53 GMT
Sorry now I cannot buy this whole thing "Dublin may be troubled by their first real test". I think the 1/5 is fair.
Mayo were galvanised Saturday for sure but if Donegal's go to men were in half the form in front of the posts as they were v. Kerry then it would be Donegal heading towards certain defeat to Dublin next Saturday night.
Dublin will simply have too much. Chaotic heart will only get you so far, and apologies if it seems a bit brutal but I think Dublin will canter home with 8/9 to spare against both Mayo and whoever has the daunting task of stopping them in the final.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 5, 2019 14:21:14 GMT
Few giving Mayo a chance in this game. The best chance of halting the five in a row probably lies here on Saturday night. I don't think there will be much in it at the final whistle. If Dublin canter through the tie it is ominous for the final outcome.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 5, 2019 14:53:16 GMT
Few giving Mayo a chance in this game. The best chance of halting the five in a row probably lies here on Saturday night. I don't think there will be much in it at the final whistle. If Dublin canter through the tie it is ominous for the final outcome. who is the ref. If it aint McQuillan or Coldrick then i see this as a 50-50 game. As you said earlier, Dublin havent had to dig deep since 2017.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 5, 2019 14:56:30 GMT
Conor Lane reffing Dublin v Mayo.
Dublin will be hoping to seal the 5 in a row by beating Tyrone, Mayo and then Kerry in the final.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 5, 2019 15:19:26 GMT
Conor Lane reffing Dublin v Mayo. Dublin will be hoping to seal the 5 in a row by beating Tyrone, Mayo and then Kerry in the final. interesting. He owes Mayo a break after missing Bastics pickup at the end of 2016....or was it 2017....that would have stopped the 5inarow in its tracks anyway.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 5, 2019 17:18:11 GMT
They are calling yesterdays game the "Coma in Omagh".However, had Cork beaten or drawn with Tyrone you would have had a different scenario. Tyrone would have put out a strong team and so would Dublin. Cork v Ros would have mattered. You need 3 competitive teams capable of beating each other to make the super 8 work. One really sensed the "Coma in Omagh" was a testimonial match by Dublin for quite a few players. Moreover, it was chance to say goodbye and thanks by the Dublin fratenrity as we might have seen a few Dublin greats for the last time yesterday start or in competitive action while helping distract from the 5 in-a-row chatter. Jim's smoke and mirrors isn't fooling us. PS: I know Jim Gavin has extended his term as manager but i wouldn’t be surprised if he called it a day should Dublin win the 5-in-a-row.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 5, 2019 19:43:29 GMT
I think Jim will wait on until after they have won the 10 in a row.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 6, 2019 18:41:16 GMT
I think Jim will wait on until after they have won the 10 in a row. He'll be waiting a long time so. We may not be ready this year or maybe the stars will align for us but by 2020 or 21 - Kerry will be restoring the natural order.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 6, 2019 21:33:06 GMT
I think Jim will wait on until after they have won the 10 in a row. He'll be waiting a long time so. We may not be ready this year or maybe the stars will align for us but by 2020 or 21 - Kerry will be restoring the natural order. Mayo might align those stars on Saturday evening!
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 6, 2019 22:10:24 GMT
Surprisingly enough a game like the one today can tell you a lot about the 2 teams. Dublin went in there without a grand plan so you get to see what the full extent of what players have to offer playing off the cuff. Then you can see what the game plans are designed for. We saw Paddy Small kicking the ball into the keepers hands from about 30 metres - something that would never happen when the plan to keep recycling the ball until Rock is in the perfect spot in the D to have the perfect shot. Rock will play every game from now on. Also the goal that normally comes at about 60 minutes to open the floodgates didn't come until about 74 minutes, too late for the floodgates. I know Dublin rested a few big names today but I think Gavin made a mistake by not going for the jugular and having the game won after 20 / 25 minutes. Class is permanent and I know he has got it but Connolly is not up to speed for All Ireland final standard of football and that is where we are at now. He will not get it in the next 4 weeks. Rory O'Carroll couldn't read the flight of the ball several times and gave up easy chances so it appears that experiment has failed. Jim has big decisions to make and in the words of Ronan O'Gare they are the chased rather the chaser. The odds are always with the hound. Just a few points, This game allowed Gavin give game time to James mc, Murchin and Cooper who had injuries. Allowed Connolly get a game , older guys like Brogan and O Gara , Kev mc got to play . Gavin needs these guys pushing the others guys in Training and fresh from playing a game , they will have a renewed vigour. Bugler will have confidence from his display and u20 footballer O C Byrne got a run out Dublin didnt need to blitz this game with the big guns playing, nothing to be gained from doing this. Paddy Small dropped a ball short so what , So does Ciaran Kilkenny and Con at times. Injuries have held Paddy back but he will be a top player and regularly scores from distance. Dublin don't wait till Dean Rock is in the perfect spot in the D . This doesn't form any part of Dublins game plan . As for Jim with big decisions to make. really don't think so. He knows his starting 15 . He did before Sunday. Sunday only confirmed for him what players will make panel.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 6, 2019 22:54:35 GMT
Thought the Kerry-Donegal match was class. And then Donegal couldn't cope with Mayo, again. Apart from 2012 and the epic games of 2014, (and a somewhat suspect Super 8s game this summer) Mayo have overall come out on top of Donegal, Tyrone and Kerry, just about, in the last seven years. And have been inches short of beating Dublin on several occasions.
If Mayo finally overcome Dublin this week, and if as I expect Kerry overcome a relatively limited Tyrone, I think the balance of power between Kerry and Mayo lies slightly with the latter. I'd never write off Tyrone of course, they have made some real progress the last two years, this game will prove whether that progress came to an end with last year's final. Kerry have more in attack, that is clear, this will be their biggest challenge to date but Tyrone's lack of scoring power will I feel make this a very good match for Kerry to have at this stage, they should win, and their forwards will be seriously tested.
Will Dublin Mark 19 be better able to manage the Mayo challenge? Is the Mayo challenge really the same as two, three, four years ago? You would think there are some advantages for Dublin in terms of age profile but then again almost unnoticed Mayo have managed to graft in a few newer lads who I expect to have a massive role this week. They have pulled off the trick that everyone sort of dismisses them as "wild and hard to beat but not very tactical" yet they produce their best performances against the best opposition, and you don't stay in contention with the best teams unless you have very smart tactics, especially with having to spread your scoring around alot. They also get away with murder from refs.
The question now, as ever in this era is, how good are Mayo? I think it's a typical paradox that in the year when more people than ever before have decided to write them off as a really strong candidate for Sam, they have produced two of the best performances from them in the past decade, the league final and the Donegal game. Their bona fides this year are actually better than the two years they actually came closest to winning Sam, 16 and 17. Don't underestimate the confidence and belief that league final win will have given them, or perhaps mores the point, the conviction about winning the major trophies, which they may have just lacked til now. Their processing of age and serious injury problems has been remarkable this year but then again as some of us opined last year, the break from a full summer of championship might actually revive them somewhat this year, for one more huge push from their stalwarts, and so it has come to pass, it appears. Horan deserves alot of credit. As of course do the players for coming back yet again.
Mayo have had several huge games and challenges this year, Dublin have had none unless you include the defeated league games, which was a first for Gavin's teams. We don't actually know what this year's team will bring to a huge challenge. All of these factors mean I would expect Mayo to have a real chance, alot depends on whether Dublin really turn up, and how good some of Mayo's newer lads are. If some of their returning injured are up to speed then they will produce a huge performance overall. If their newer lads are not up to the required standard then I think Dublin will win by about 3.
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Post by dc84 on Aug 7, 2019 8:08:02 GMT
Thought the Kerry-Donegal match was class. And then Donegal couldn't cope with Mayo, again. Apart from 2012 and the epic games of 2014, (and a somewhat suspect Super 8s game this summer) Mayo have overall come out on top of Donegal, Tyrone and Kerry, just about, in the last seven years. And have been inches short of beating Dublin on several occasions. If Mayo finally overcome Dublin this week, and if as I expect Kerry overcome a relatively limited Tyrone, I think the balance of power between Kerry and Mayo lies slightly with the latter. I'd never write off Tyrone of course, they have made some real progress the last two years, this game will prove whether that progress came to an end with last year's final. Kerry have more in attack, that is clear, this will be their biggest challenge to date but Tyrone's lack of scoring power will I feel make this a very good match for Kerry to have at this stage, they should win, and their forwards will be seriously tested. Will Dublin Mark 19 be better able to manage the Mayo challenge? Is the Mayo challenge really the same as two, three, four years ago? You would think there are some advantages for Dublin in terms of age profile but then again almost unnoticed Mayo have managed to graft in a few newer lads who I expect to have a massive role this week. They have pulled off the trick that everyone sort of dismisses them as "wild and hard to beat but not very tactical" yet they produce their best performances against the best opposition, and you don't stay in contention with the best teams unless you have very smart tactics, especially with having to spread your scoring around alot. They also get away with murder from refs. The question now, as ever in this era is, how good are Mayo? I think it's a typical paradox that in the year when more people than ever before have decided to write them off as a really strong candidate for Sam, they have produced two of the best performances from them in the past decade, the league final and the Donegal game. Their bona fides this year are actually better than the two years they actually came closest to winning Sam, 16 and 17. Don't underestimate the confidence and belief that league final win will have given them, or perhaps mores the point, the conviction about winning the major trophies, which they may have just lacked til now. Their processing of age and serious injury problems has been remarkable this year but then again as some of us opined last year, the break from a full summer of championship might actually revive them somewhat this year, for one more huge push from their stalwarts, and so it has come to pass, it appears. Horan deserves alot of credit. As of course do the players for coming back yet again. Mayo have had several huge games and challenges this year, Dublin have had none unless you include the defeated league games, which was a first for Gavin's teams. We don't actually know what this year's team will bring to a huge challenge. All of these factors mean I would expect Mayo to have a real chance, alot depends on whether Dublin really turn up, and how good some of Mayo's newer lads are. If some of their returning injured are up to speed then they will produce a huge performance overall. If their newer lads are not up to the required standard then I think Dublin will win by about 3. Good post, this feels like dublin first championship match of the year with all due respect to everyone they have played there has been a league feel to it. The weather is supposed to be brutal which will suit mayo down to the ground. The super 8s proved they got hammered in killarney in the heat after a run of hard games. Then fast forward 3 weeks to a wet day in castlebar and they battle the life out of Donegal. I know it's a cliche but mayo need a good start and I think they will get it. Dublin will be hit with an intensity they haven't felt in a while and will probably take 20 mins to get up to mayos level. They will though eventually and their better forwards will win it for them in the last 20 probably by 5-6 points.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 7, 2019 8:38:06 GMT
Fresh untested Dublin at home v battle hardened, weary Mayo.
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