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Post by The16thMan on Apr 2, 2019 6:14:30 GMT
In the wake of our league final defeat to Mayo and our next game not until June, I've decided to open a thread about all things Kerry Senior football up until then such as players that should/shouldn't be playing, tactics we should/shouldn't be using, how far we can get this year, teams we can and can't beat and so on.
Personally up until now I think Kerry are in limbo, don't look like winning an AI in the next few years but don't look like becoming a bad side in that time either. Personally a positive thing I noticed was the change in 3 years in the team since we took that 2-18 to 0-13 defeat to Dublin in 2016's NFL final is that Kerry had only like 8 players from that panel that took part in Sundays final but Dublin had something like 12 players in their starting 15 alone that played a chunk in this years league so perhaps it just goes to show that maybe, just maybe, that Dublins monopoly over gaelic football is starting to cease and our time is coming again. But as I say that would likely be a few years down the line and it is still far too early to say for definite.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 2, 2019 7:48:34 GMT
The Dubs have to be stopped this year and it doesn't matter if they who wield the dagger do not go on to wear the crown.
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Post by dc84 on Apr 2, 2019 7:57:04 GMT
The Dubs have to be stopped this year and it doesn't matter if they who wield the dagger do not go on to wear the crown. Id take us beating Dublin in a semi alright stopping the 5 in a row would feel like an ai
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tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
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Post by tonydorigo on Apr 2, 2019 8:09:56 GMT
Our defensive set up was a work in progress during the league and looked both good and bad at times during the league. Main issues I'd have with our set up were selections in full back line and not identifying a centre back from the league. We are still setting up our defence for match ups rather than actually playing to our strengths in my opinion but I think we will be in a good place come championship. I do think that Begley, Tom Sullivan, Graham Sullivan and Gavin Crowley have benefited from game time and are solid options for championship. I also think Jason Foley and Shane Enright really should be looked at for the inside line as both have the ability to shut down a teams go to forward in a way that Sherwood and Peter Crowley cannot.
I think our ideal half backline is one of Tom O'Sullivan, Gavin White and Paul Murphy but I also think that this lacks balance and physical edge. Am hoping for Morley to nail down the centre back spot, Foley the full back spot and then we build out from there.
Shane Ryan deserves to be persisted with but do think his kickouts aren't of the same quality as Shane Murphy's.
Midfield has been a worry since the start of the year and I hope and pray that Moran and Barry are fit for the year. Think Diarmuid O'Connor will come on hugely after the league final and Tommy and Gavin O'Brien present credible auxiliary options for us. I would have put money on us for an All Ireland if we still had Mark O'Connor in the county.
Forward line will be in a good place come championship. Dara Moynihan will learn a lot from Sunday and come back strong and we have an abundance of options.
Finally, some panel players have not exactly lit up proceedings during the league and have even seemed to regress. Time will tell and I'm sure there will be some form of cull with the Crokes players and others coming back into contention.
Overall, I don't get the pessimism of some people on here and am heartened by the even handed and considered responses of the likes of veteran on the game thread. We will be in the semis this year and depending on the growth of these young players we could be marching up the steps of the hogan if we get our house in order. Can't wait for summer!
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Post by The16thMan on Apr 2, 2019 8:15:56 GMT
The Dubs have to be stopped this year and it doesn't matter if they who wield the dagger do not go on to wear the crown. Id take us beating Dublin in a semi alright stopping the 5 in a row would feel like an ai I think most here would take a victory over Dublin in a dead rubber Super 8 game at this moment in time, never mind to knock them out completely. No matter the outcome though, any sort of championship fixture vs them will be at a completely different level and the young lads will learn something completely different to what they've experienced before. Win, lose or draw to them if we meet those lads will have the invaluable experience of playing vs the very best and it would spring them forward for the next few years. Nevertheless a victory over Dublin this year would mean just as much to us if not more than it did to them in 2011 when they beat us as they're 4 times running champions this year and I know they hadn't won an AI in 16 years and beaten us in championship in something like 35 years at that stage plus the fact we weren't champs then. I also think it would mean more than Offaly in 1982 as its Dublin who have a quarter of the population and to wipe the smirk off 1.5 million faces would be a whole lot sweeter.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 2, 2019 8:25:05 GMT
No point in obsessing about Dublin, or Mayo for that matter. Build our own log cabin over the summer and see what happens later on.
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 2, 2019 8:32:15 GMT
We all expect Kerry to get to the Super 8's - progressing through the Super 8's will be a challenge and will represent progress in itself. Starting the league most were hoping to maintain D1 status and getting to the final in style was a bonus, an AI SF is probably the target with a final or better bonus territory for this year. The Super 8's will see us pitted (assuming we win Munster) against the Ulster Champions in the Croke Park, with a home and away game against the Connaught and Leinster runners up (or the back door side that beats one of them). Based on the provincial draws this could see us travelling to Galway or Mayo for a game (not sure how venue is decided for the home and away games) which would be a challenge and a half. Meath are probably the fancy for Leinster RU but Donegal, Monaghan or Roscommon might have other ideas and the Championship will throw up some surprises most likely. Has anybody a better handle on how the Super 8's are organised for this year - Super 8's begin w/e 13/14 July.
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Post by The16thMan on Apr 2, 2019 8:43:39 GMT
Could see the groups turning out something like this:
Kerry Tyrone Galway Meath
Dublin Mayo Monaghan Donegal
Not sure how fixtures and venues are decided just hope somehow the GAA will see sense and try not give supporters too much distance to travel. How I mean that is play the furthest distance fixtures in Croke Park eg. to play ulster champions game there instead of bringing us to the top of the country.
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 2, 2019 8:53:38 GMT
Could see the groups turning out something like this: Kerry Tyrone Galway Meath Dublin Mayo Monaghan Donegal Not sure how fixtures and venues are decided just hope somehow the GAA will see sense and try not give supporters too much distance to travel. How I mean that is play the furthest distance fixtures in Croke Park eg. to play ulster champions game there instead of bringing us to the top of the country. Provincial winners meet in Croke Park - the other two games are home or away (unless you are Dublin of course) and not sure how this is decided.
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Post by dc84 on Apr 2, 2019 9:04:35 GMT
Its home game first then cp game then away i think. Going to be really tough mayo/galway ulster champs and then meath or whoever beats them.for all the talk of munster being easy galway have to beat the might of london and sligo to make connacht final and mayo nyc and roscommon.
Would it be worse to take on mayo/galway in killarney first up coming in cold or away in last game ?
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Post by The16thMan on Apr 2, 2019 9:11:10 GMT
No matter who we get in the Super 8's if we get there we'll be in for tough matches. Kerry don't blow teams away like we did 10 years ago in quarter finals. Nearly every match we play now is a dogged affair apart from the odd game in Munster. Teams like Mayo, Galway, Monaghan and Donegal used to be relatively easy pickings for us 10 years ago when the game was more skill based but now the game is more physicality based and the fact we have a young team, we are slightly behind in those terms so we've still a good bit of catching up to do.
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Post by dc84 on Apr 2, 2019 10:44:41 GMT
No matter who we get in the Super 8's if we get there we'll be in for tough matches. Kerry don't blow teams away like we did 10 years ago in quarter finals. Nearly every match we play now is a dogged affair apart from the odd game in Munster. Teams like Mayo, Galway, Monaghan and Donegal used to be relatively easy pickings for us 10 years ago when the game was more skill based but now the game is more physicality based and the fact we have a young team, we are slightly behind in those terms so we've still a good bit of catching up to do. In fairness it was pretty physical back then two, main difference is we had Dara Tomas, galvin griffen etc who were just as physical as anyone ask nicholas murphy. I think we can get a better balance and things will improve massively.the below is what id go for to start 1.Ryan 2.p.crowley 3.foley 4.morley 5.murphy 6.sherwood 7.white 8.barry 9.moran 10.d. oconnor 11. Sos 12 sob 13.mcarthy 14.clifford 15.geaney Play o connor as 3rd mf, keep o shea to stay as link man further up with mcarthy and o brien on wings and clifford geaney as 2 man ff line. Id tell white to run himself and his marker into the ground then you have tom sull to come on early in 2nd half.gives us more strenght in hf line and a great bench which is vital our bench was poor enough sunday.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 2, 2019 11:00:39 GMT
Leitrim are going to win Connacht. BELIEVE.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Apr 2, 2019 11:04:56 GMT
Assuming that we win the Munster Championship, these are the fixtures that we would have in the Super 8's.
1st Game at Home. 13/14 July. Kerry -v- Connacht Runner-Up or team that defeats them in Round 4.
2nd. Game - Croke Park. 20/21 July. Kerry –v- Ulster Champions.
3rd Game 3/4. August. Away to Ulster Runner-Up or team defeats them in Round 4.
There is a change from last year’s arrangements. Phase 1 game to be home venues for the provincial champions, with Phase 2 game being in Croke Park.
We'll talk about semi-finals if and when we get to that stage, Le chúnamh Dé!
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 2, 2019 11:10:51 GMT
Assuming that we win the Munster Championship, these are the fixtures that we would have in the Super 8's. 1st Game at Home. 13/14 July. Kerry -v- Connacht Runner-Up or team that defeats them in Round 4. 2nd. Game - Croke Park. 20/21 July. Kerry –v- Ulster Champions. 3rd Game 3/4. August. Away to Ulster Runner-Up or team defeats them in Round 4. There is a change from last year’s arrangements. Phase 1 game to be home venues for the provincial champions, with Phase 2 game being in Croke Park. We'll talk about semi-finals if and when we get to that stage, Le chúnamh Dé! Presume you mean Leinster runner up for the third game.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Apr 2, 2019 11:18:53 GMT
My mistake - you are of course, correct. Amended below. Assuming that we win the Munster Championship, these are the fixtures that we would have in the Super 8's. 1st Game at Home. 13/14 July. Kerry -v- Connacht Runner-Up or team that defeats them in Round 4. 2nd. Game - Croke Park. 20/21 July. Kerry –v- Ulster Champions. 3rd Game 3/4. August. Away to Leinster Runner-Up or team defeats them in Round 4. There is a change from last year’s arrangements. Phase 1 game to be home venues for the provincial champions, with Phase 2 game being in Croke Park. We'll talk about semi-finals if and when we get to that stage, Le chúnamh Dé! Read more: kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/7047/pre-championship-thread-2019#ixzz5jw4QQq00
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Post by dc84 on Apr 2, 2019 12:12:12 GMT
Thats a tough start mayo/galway/rossies in killarney 2nd week of june epic stuff ! Booking the monday off straight away
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 2, 2019 13:13:44 GMT
Our defensive set up was a work in progress during the league and looked both good and bad at times during the league. Main issues I'd have with our set up were selections in full back line and not identifying a centre back from the league. We are still setting up our defence for match ups rather than actually playing to our strengths in my opinion but I think we will be in a good place come championship. I do think that Begley, Tom Sullivan, Graham Sullivan and Gavin Crowley have benefited from game time and are solid options for championship. I also think Jason Foley and Shane Enright really should be looked at for the inside line as both have the ability to shut down a teams go to forward in a way that Sherwood and Peter Crowley cannot. I think our ideal half backline is one of Tom O'Sullivan, Gavin White and Paul Murphy but I also think that this lacks balance and physical edge. Am hoping for Morley to nail down the centre back spot, Foley the full back spot and then we build out from there. Shane Ryan deserves to be persisted with but do think his kickouts aren't of the same quality as Shane Murphy's. Midfield has been a worry since the start of the year and I hope and pray that Moran and Barry are fit for the year. Think Diarmuid O'Connor will come on hugely after the league final and Tommy and Gavin O'Brien present credible auxiliary options for us. I would have put money on us for an All Ireland if we still had Mark O'Connor in the county. Forward line will be in a good place come championship. Dara Moynihan will learn a lot from Sunday and come back strong and we have an abundance of options. Finally, some panel players have not exactly lit up proceedings during the league and have even seemed to regress. Time will tell and I'm sure there will be some form of cull with the Crokes players and others coming back into contention. Overall, I don't get the pessimism of some people on here and am heartened by the even handed and considered responses of the likes of veteran on the game thread. We will be in the semis this year and depending on the growth of these young players we could be marching up the steps of the hogan if we get our house in order. Can't wait for summer! If you take the long view... target say 2022 for an All Ireland, you would be encouraged that class players are beginning to emerge in most sectors with the likes of Diarmaid oConnor a clear candidate for long career at midfield to add to others who have already made the breakthrough. Kerry are noticibly lacking in meanness and Dublin and Mayo have that in abundance when the fat is in the fire in high end games. There was no one to take AOS down a mean street last sunday for example and distract him. So... 3 to 5 year term...very bright 2019.... not hard enough to go all the way but Kerry will be a very difficult proposition all the same
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kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,125
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Post by kot on Apr 2, 2019 17:50:25 GMT
Is it confirmed again that provincial champions meet again in the first match up in Croker? I.e. the so called Neutral venue thats not neutral if you are Dublin but you still get to play in there for a neutral game if you are Dublin cos you are Dublin and suggesting that is unfair is "negative" & "mean spirited"... oh sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there.
But was there not discussions that the provincial winners would both get to play at home first to get full value for their success at provincial level?
On some of the issues I am of the view that its our midfield who are causing a knock on impact on the defence. They are under constant pressure because midfields and half backs arent being tracked. Our midfield cannot connect with our forwards accurately via a kick pass nor do they have the legs to run and link up as effectively the likes of Mayo our Dublin. I don't think Moran is the saviour in this regard, he has been caught for mobility often over the last 5 years.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Apr 2, 2019 18:04:32 GMT
Is it confirmed again that provincial champions meet again in the first match up in Croker? I.e. the so called Neutral venue thats not neutral if you are Dublin but you still get to play in there for a neutral game if you are Dublin cos you are Dublin and suggesting that is unfair is "negative" & "mean spirited"... oh sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there. But was there not discussions that the provincial winners would both get to play at home first to get full value for their success at provincial level? On some of the issues I am of the view that its our midfield who are causing a knock on impact on the defence. They are under constant pressure because midfields and half backs arent being tracked. Our midfield cannot connect with our forwards accurately via a kick pass nor do they have the legs to run and link up as effectively the likes of Mayo our Dublin. I don't think Moran is the saviour in this regard, he has been caught for mobility often over the last 5 years. I think our problem last Sunday wasn't the mobility of the midfield it was a complete inability to win any breaks. I echo your sentiments about Moran's lack of mobility. That's why of its deemed a year too soon for diarmuid O'Connor for the championship i would try white there. Let Barry go for the fielding and break everything that goes elsewhere. Obviously we need a better plan for the breaks than sunday
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Post by buck02 on Apr 2, 2019 18:06:56 GMT
Is it confirmed again that provincial champions meet again in the first match up in Croker? I.e. the so called Neutral venue thats not neutral if you are Dublin but you still get to play in there for a neutral game if you are Dublin cos you are Dublin and suggesting that is unfair is "negative" & "mean spirited"... oh sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there. But was there not discussions that the provincial winners would both get to play at home first to get full value for their success at provincial level? On some of the issues I am of the view that its our midfield who are causing a knock on impact on the defence. They are under constant pressure because midfields and half backs arent being tracked. Our midfield cannot connect with our forwards accurately via a kick pass nor do they have the legs to run and link up as effectively the likes of Mayo our Dublin. I don't think Moran is the saviour in this regard, he has been caught for mobility often over the last 5 years. If Kerry win Munster then they play their first game in Killarney against the runner up Connacht or team that beats them in Qualifier Round 4. July 13/14. Second Super 8s game is the neutral game in Croke Park against the Ulster Champions. July 20/21. Last Super 8s game is the away game against the runners up in Leinster or teams that beats them in Qualifier Round 4. August 3/4.
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ciarraioch1956
On Probation
No All Ireland was ever won in March
Posts: 13
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Post by ciarraioch1956 on Apr 7, 2019 9:30:05 GMT
No point in obsessing about Dublin, or Mayo for that matter. Build our own log cabin over the summer and see what happens later on.
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Post by themanfromthewest on Apr 7, 2019 10:36:29 GMT
How many nailed on starters do we have for summer? I’d say the following anyway Tom O’Sullivan, Paul Murphy, Jack Barry, Sean O’Shea, Stephen O’Brien and Clifford. I’d be fairly sure White will start too even though we haven’t seen him yet.
There are others in the ‘very likely’ category like Crowley, Sherwood, Moran, Moynihan, Geaney and McCarthy.
When you look at the other teams likely to feature in the Super 8’s you could probably name 12 of their lineup with near certainty at this stage and everyone is battle tested and knows their job. I know Kerry will be working hard in training in the coming months. There is a lot to be said for a settled team. It’s inevitable that places are up for grabs when you’ve a young team and a new manager in fairness.
I’d agree with AWB and said it in the match thread that the breaks around the middle absolutely killed us in the final. Pundits are pointing to Kerry’s frail defence but our lack of primary possession put huge pressure on the backline and starved our forwards. Even when we broke past midfield the ball was too slow to go in I thought Clifford was going to tear his hair out, he had his hand up all day looking for the ball and had a very favourable matchup with his man but he was hardly targeted. I believe we have the coaches to sort this out in time for summer, do we have the playing personnel is the big question.
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Fado
Senior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by Fado on Apr 8, 2019 14:16:47 GMT
Having seen several games where our defence was exposed when run at, I would hope the CHB question is given immediate attention. So far, there are not too many candidates for this vital position, hopefully we come up with someone with the necessary attributes, especially physicality.
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Post by taibhse on Apr 8, 2019 14:34:14 GMT
Having seen several games where our defence was exposed when run at, I would hope the CHB question is given immediate attention. So far, there are not too many candidates for this vital position, hopefully we come up with someone with the necessary attributes, especially physicality. The idea that we might “come up with someone” as you put it is a bit fanciful. Even if a player with the necessary ‘where-with-all’ was identified, it would take at least a year and probably more than that, of strength and conditioning and a lot of other stuff before he would be ready to compete at the top level. In my view, what's there now is what we have for this year's campaign. How we deploy them and the game plans are something that will be worked on – hopefully successfully. That's the challenge facing management and it will be interesting to see how they deal with it.
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Fado
Senior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by Fado on Apr 8, 2019 14:40:29 GMT
Nothing fanciful in my thinking, I fully expect the ideal CHB to come from the current panel.
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Post by dc84 on Apr 8, 2019 16:00:44 GMT
The ideal chb would ideally have 1.great postional sense 2.a physical presence 3. a goodfootballer emphasis on the foot.
We have several candidates who fill one or two of those boxes. Murphy 1 and 3, then we have peter crowley, gavin crowley, morley and imo jack sherwood. I think peter has done well this league at corner back dont remember anyone taking him to the cleaners.sherwood has played well in every game except the final i personnally would like to see sherwood there but he played at 3 mostly in the league so not sure if this will happen.
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Post by greenmen55 on Apr 8, 2019 17:12:53 GMT
I know he has had his chances but would Mark Griffin be a candidate for the Centre back position powerful, strong, and fast and also not afraid to put in a hit to halt any runs when lads are opening us up down the middle
He has had many a chance but just a thought?
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Post by taggert on Apr 8, 2019 18:09:37 GMT
I know he has had his chances but would Mark Griffin be a candidate for the Centre back position powerful, strong, and fast and also not afraid to put in a hit to halt any runs when lads are opening us up down the middle He has had many a chance but just a thought? No because he is an absolute liability with the ball as evidenced in the recent Mayo game - refer to minutes 51 and 55.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 18:40:49 GMT
I know he has had his chances but would Mark Griffin be a candidate for the Centre back position powerful, strong, and fast and also not afraid to put in a hit to halt any runs when lads are opening us up down the middle He has had many a chance but just a thought? No because he is an absolute liability with the ball as evidenced in the recent Mayo game - refer to minutes 51 and 55. And I am not sure he has the positional awareness for the position also. The ability to hit a lad a shoulder is pretty low down my list of criteria for a chb.
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