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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 7, 2019 19:36:33 GMT
The Gooch was good in the air.
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Post by taggert on Mar 7, 2019 20:52:52 GMT
Yeah I think you're probably right. O'Shea certainty at 11, Clifford certainty at 14. He will have two foragers in the style of how O'Brien and Moynihan (almost certainly those two IMO), say 10 & 15. I have a strong suspicion he will want at least one of the remaining two to be a unit, so you're talking about Gavin or DOC or someone at 12, probably Geaney and Tommy fighting it out for 13 if Tommy gets a bit more promising gametime under his belt in the next few weeks. I'm a little bit worried about the physical size of our HB line if we end up with O'Sullivan, Murphy and White. I could see Kilkenny for instances manhandling the latter two. Maybe TOS is raw boned enough for him. Totally agree, really need to get the balance right here. Unfortunately we seem to have loads of top quality wingbacks but a shortage of stoppers. Would like to see savage/morley at 6 then two out of TOS white and murphy. Problem is who to leave out??? If i was jim Gavin i would put callaghan 11 howard ten and kilkenny 12 not sure we could handle that with the current makeup not sure about any of those 3 in the fullback line either too susceptible to a high ball. Agree with the above. The physically light HB line is somewhat compounded, in my mind, by the vertically challenged incumbent corner backs Begley and Peter Crowley, both very susceptible under the high ball. Its partly why I hope we meet Dublin in a league final to test the theory. I'd rather we find out now than later in September. I am still hopeful that Jason Foley will get his chance - wouldn't mind seeing how he goes either side of Sherwood. Would give me a bit more confidence - has great physical presence. Plenty to ponder and may ultimately be horses for courses depending on the opposition.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 7, 2019 21:10:04 GMT
When you ask will Jason Foley get his chance... sure he is coming back from injury.
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Post by taggert on Mar 7, 2019 21:23:39 GMT
When you ask will Jason Foley get his chance... sure he is coming back from injury. I am aware of that but he is "back" a while. I may be utterly mistaken for thinking he may have slipped a little down the pecking order. May just be the case that the defensive unit is functioning very well and he will have to wait gor his chance, which is not unreasonable.
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Post by elephant on Mar 7, 2019 21:45:51 GMT
So you are agreeing that he is living off reputation? So he is given a pass because he’s injured? He might have got away with it in the previous regime but can’t see the new management hanging on to him at the expense of new talent. All your posts to date seem to be about rubbishing this fella and that. Anything positive to contribute? I think ye are missing the point lads. If the man is injured then he is injured. Fair enough. But how long can you carry a fella that is injured? He has been injured on and off for the past four years and as a result has had very little form. If the man stays fit and regains form of five years ago that is fantastic and absolute starter. BUT if not and does not regain that form then i believe he should be cut from panel. We are at a stage where we kept players on the last few years and they should have been let go (not naming players). That is one of the reasons why we probably wont win AI this year. We need to look long term and that means cutting our losses now and play the likes of Conor Geaney, Spillane etc. Maybe they wont work out either but at least we are giving them a chance rather than holding on to players who have been given chance after chance. P. S. There are a lot of 'knowledgeable' Kerry supporters around who read and believe everything that they read from the 'expert' pundits and former players. Maybe try thinking for yourselves and come up with your own opinions.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 7, 2019 21:48:27 GMT
Guys that’s good discussion on our good options up front And maybe lack of size and strength on our backs But for me our midfield has the greatest scope for improvement If we fix that ( and I believe it’s broken ) every thing else improves I think we may have to borrow from peter to pay Paul but our mid field this league league although good is probably not good enough to win the league final or the AI . I don't really know what options we have for midfield. I do think the reason we seem to have been picking big units in the forward line is to try and help out at the middle. Jack Barry has good games and bad games but he always seems to play well against Fenton. Considering Dublin are trying to win five in a row this year being good against Fenton is about the only metric I care about. I understand the sentiment about Dublin being the metric. However, Mayo beat Kerry in 2017. Galway beat Kerry in 2018 and Monaghan nearly did. There was lots of discussion about Dublin on this forum in 2017 and 2018 but Kerry never got to play them during the summer.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Mar 7, 2019 22:53:41 GMT
What's impressive thus far is the lads who were given a chance (because of injuries to others, the Dr. Crokes' lads unavailability, or for whatever other reason) and the way they have stepped in and tried to claim a permanent-ish spot on the team. Jack Sherwood probably the biggest surprise thus far, with not too many lads playing themselves off the panel.
Looks like we will have a very even panel with number 30 not very different to number 17 on any given match day.
Keeping them all happy might be management's greatest challenge.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 7, 2019 23:20:59 GMT
Midfield has been our problem for a while going back a good few years. Maher and moran were good together but, in reality they are throwback midfielders. You might get away with one but, not two. I think Moran is too slow for a modern inter county midfielder. Against A Dublin team and thats who I'm measuring us against. Jack Barry flits in and out of the game. Then again he is in what his third year. Darragh took a while to hit his stride in a Kerry jersey. Scanlon was on his second coming before he came good.
Griffin while providing an option is not the answer there. We are looking probably for a partner for Barry realistically with Moran coming on late on probably. If Jason Foley cant get into the backs can he play there? I know he was a full back underage so just guessing. Or Gavin white driving us forward from Midfield. I think Tom Sullivan and Paul Murphy have 2 out of the 3 half back slots nailed down.
Just making suggestions. Gavin white is 6'1 so he is no midget. As he showed against Monaghan last year he is well able to field a ball.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 8, 2019 0:36:13 GMT
Midfield has been our problem for a while going back a good few years. Maher and moran were good together but, in reality they are throwback midfielders. You might get away with one but, not two. I think Moran is too slow for a modern inter county midfielder. Against A Dublin team and thats who I'm measuring us against. Jack Barry flits in and out of the game. Then again he is in what his third year. Darragh took a while to hit his stride in a Kerry jersey. Scanlon was on his second coming before he came good. Griffin while providing an option is not the answer there. We are looking probably for a partner for Barry realistically with Moran coming on late on probably. If Jason Foley cant get into the backs can he play there? I know he was a full back underage so just guessing. Or Gavin white driving us forward from Midfield. I think Tom Sullivan and Paul Murphy have 2 out of the 3 half back slots nailed down. Just making suggestions. Gavin white is 6'1 so he is no midget. As he showed against Monaghan last year he is well able to field a ball. I like the way your thinking. How about David at CF and SOS along with Jack Barry Interesting that JB is now getting a name for being a conservative defensive Midfielder and I agree he has more strings to the bow that we’re not seeing Yet . We used to see some brief flashes of attacking Flair only failing to pull the trigger at the critical moment ? Puzzling really because I ve been hearing that at club level he’s brilliant going Forward and well able to score . So let’s forget about Jacks to date untapped offensive potential and say he is our enforcer in the middle where he can shut down or limit playmakers like Fintan . Say jack therefore is our defensive midfielder . Is his partner also another defensive midfielder ?? I’m expecting more flair here from at least one of our Mid fielders seriously ? And yes I could see Gavin White giving a whole load of problems to the opposition midfield forcing them about 30 meters back throughout the game Not the full package yet I would say for MF but for a period there during a game if freed from defensive duty he could cause havoc. Bottom line we have to come up with something .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 9:00:38 GMT
Henry Downey & Johnny McGurk Derry 93 anyone, Gavin white is 6”+
No issues with White,Murphy & O Sullivan in the current form. Crowley, Sherwood, Foley bring the physicality needed for any team. Moran is the best ballplaying midfielder we have had since Jacko. Definite starter
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Post by defullback10 on Mar 8, 2019 9:51:52 GMT
Moran is the best ballplaying midfielder we have had since Jacko. Definite starter[/b]
He will be a starter due to the lack of options outside of him. Too slow with the ball in hand and certainly a poor kicker out of the hand too
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 8, 2019 10:02:46 GMT
Moran is the best ballplaying midfielder we have had since Jacko. Definite starter [/b] He will be a starter due to the lack of options outside of him. Too slow with the ball in hand and certainly a poor kicker out of the hand too [/quote] A poor kicker? What? A poor shooter yes, maybe. One person's slow is another person's composed. Moran is rarely dispossessed.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 8, 2019 10:32:37 GMT
A fit Moran is a huge asset - a fit Moran with a well functioning middle 8 can be a match winner. Problem for Moran in the past few seasons is our middle 8 has not worried the Dublin & Mayo's of this world leaving them free to target Moran by crowding and disrupting his game. If our middle 8 all require attention then this means the opposition cannot pay Moran as much attention as they have. In our team he is the hammer for me and other teams beat us more easily when they hammer our hammer. They can afford to do this becasue we were carrying others in the middle 8. Football in 2019 is a 26 man game and any weaknesses in the 26 means strong opposition have points of weakness to go after and exploit - most encouraging aspect of Kerry 2019 is we are developing a strong 26.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 8, 2019 11:37:27 GMT
David Moran remains a fine midfielder. Kerry would be in clover at midfield going into the summer if Mark O'Connor was in the mix with Barry/Moran playing to the same level as Sean O'Shea & David Clifford are. Toppling the Dubs in the summer might boil down to a game of inches.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 8, 2019 12:10:09 GMT
David Moran remains a fine midfielder. Kerry would be in clover at midfield going into the summer if Mark O'Connor was in the mix with Barry/Moran playing to the same level as Sean O'Shea & David Clifford are. Toppling the Dubs in the summer might boil down to a game of inches. David Moran has a huge role to play if you need any reminding of that just look back to the recent league game v Dublin where he set up the winning point With leadership and no small amount of skillful ball handling with the no look Pass to Crowley and the take back / crossover before that Is David able to give us the full 80 min ? Maybe but probably not this early in the year also can he produce the phenomenal work rate of the younger SOS Probably not therefore I make a case for a switch with SOS where at 11 he’d Not have to run as much but be a holding CF he’d dominate Cian o Sul in the Air and we know Cian doesn’t counter attack much and he could alternate in and out with TW he gives us more Ariel ability up front he’ also gives us more physical presence he’s a damn good ball handler but please David no more frees ! The sight of David this year taking sideline kicks drove me crazy !
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Post by greengold35 on Mar 8, 2019 12:30:51 GMT
Moran is the best ballplaying midfielder we have had since Jacko. Definite starter [/b] He will be a starter due to the lack of options outside of him. Too slow with the ball in hand and certainly a poor kicker out of the hand too [/quote] Moran has been one of our stand out players for past few years and possesses all the skills bar none - was one of the best players in last years county championship and news of an injury is a concern - is a player we most definitely need for 2019.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 8, 2019 12:57:47 GMT
To suggest that Moran is the best ball player since Jacko is to forgot Darragh whose footpassing was an art form. If PK could persuade Moran to stop kicking the ball away aimlessly i would be delighted. Moran has many fine attributes such as fielding, positional sence, workrate etc but there are too many wild hail marys for my liking.
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Post by dc84 on Mar 8, 2019 14:12:28 GMT
Moran is a bit of an all rounder in my eyes good fielder decent passer (mostly) i like others would like him to play it simpler at times. We need him to have a good year since donnacha left its been left to him and barry in middle o shea helped last year and Gavin o brien adds another option with t. Walsh back also this can only help Moran.
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Post by taibhse on Mar 8, 2019 14:24:17 GMT
In my opinion, David has a lot of strengths including fielding, positional, power, and a stout heart. He also possesses the ability to deliver a good ball occasionally but by and large, he always seems to take a touch or two too many. It must be very difficult to play in the inside forward line when David wins possession. A forward could be making runs all day and if the ball doesn’t cone smartly then its advantage defender. Like someone else suggested, this is an area that good coaching can improve on. Without him though, Kerry would be a weaker team. We can only drop fellows when we have better replacements and right now that is not evident - to me anyway.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 8, 2019 14:25:15 GMT
Take Moran out of the current Kerry midfield matrix and ye'll see whats left...................
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 8, 2019 14:50:06 GMT
Moran doesn't bring speed to midfield, we all know that. He does bring a very steady platform though and he is still one of Kerry's best performers. Combined with Jack barry's development it is a very steady platform indeed. It will never be as speedy as the Dublin midfield, but does it need to be? We need to play to our strengths and in my opinion Moran's vision is much superior to the Dublin midfielders. Fenton seems to be the benchmark, but I'm sure that if you would compare him to Moran that Moran comes out on top in setting up goals and points. Fenton and Kilkenny seem to be the Dublin central axis and together they marshall the Dublin team with Cluxton being the orchestrator of each attack from the kickout. 9 out of 10 times the ball goes long to Fenton or short to the half backs and then to Fenton. From Fenton it goes to Kilkenny who will play keep ball until the Dublin forwards are where they need to be and certain plays are being played. Very much like rugby or American football or basketball Dublin train on certain plays where each player knows what to do to get the score. They are very methodical, very clinical and very convinced of their structure. So far it looks like Keane is developing similar plays and while we don't have high scores we do seem to be able to grind out games and the players don't seem to panic at all. It very much reminds me of where Dublin were in 2011. Get the core of the team right and get all the players to buy into a structure and you start winning games. Once a few plays are second nature, new ones can be introduced until you have a structure for each situation. It is clear that whatever the Dubs face, they have seen it before and they have a plan how to deal with it and all players know the plan and how to execute it. It is much less instinctive and spontaneous, but it seems to be how football is developing and has been developing for the last 15 years. Tyrone do it even more effectively than most. They have few stars in that team and still put it up to must teams in the championship. I don't like the way Tyrone play, but Mickey gets the best out of that bunch. As for Horan with Mayo: I think it's a step back and what they need is a solution to the O'Shea conundrum and a forward like Andy Moran, who will keep going forward, no matter what. So far in the league Mayo have often been sucked into their own half defending and while they have some young players coming into the team they are just not as good as the Mayo team 3, 4 years ago.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 8, 2019 15:17:03 GMT
Finally we’re discussing our to date weakest link and that’s midfield A few good options discussed here But let’s not forget the full hearted performances of Mark Griffin who only has. A few games under his belt at MF in no way Should we underestimate his contribution here and I know he found it tough v Monaghan but Doogan is a very hard player to play against he beat Kerry on his own the previous time he played Kerry in the league even scored a goal ! And that was not Griffins fault . I could see a strand road twin towers but not with a side by side axis But a 11 and 14. Axis The last time we had the twin tower idea 2008 we done so with no center forward in position and a day when our wing forwards flopped Leaving the twin towers with no where near enough ball and no quality ball at all.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 8, 2019 15:42:37 GMT
Take Moran out of the current Kerry midfield matrix and ye'll see whats left................... Dublin would snap your hand off to have Moran.
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Post by taggert on Mar 8, 2019 17:01:11 GMT
WRT the midfield conundrum, if we consider it so, I hope the suggestion of moving SOS there remains just that, a suggestion. He has proven to be the best # 11 in the country to date in 2019 and I sincerely hope we "leave well alone" in this regard.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Mar 8, 2019 17:05:50 GMT
Could David Shaw from Crokes be an option at midfield? He is 6 foot 4 and played a bit at midfield underage for Crokes. We have no outstanding midfielder who is mobile, has good attacking skills and good defending skills. So maybe we should go for one defensive midfielder and one attacking midfielder? You could possibly have Barry and Griffin as the defensive midfielders and Moran and Shaw the attacking midfielders.
Or else we might just continue with having 2 workhorses in the middle and focus on limiting the opposition's midfield? It is aiming not to lose midfield rather than win it. I guess we do have excellent forwards so we don't really need the midfield doing too much in the attack. If our midfielders were a great help to our backs I guess that might be a sufficient contribution?
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 8, 2019 17:26:39 GMT
Sean O'Shea operates by looping around the middle third. Getting on handy ball and picking out passes and getting on the end of moves. He is also one of the chief organisers of our pressing game and stopping team coming out with the ball. Moving him to midfield would be a big gamble I think. He could play there but, couldn't time his interjections like he currently does. I would go for Jack Barry and a pacy player that can carry the ball and deliver a pass reasonably accurately. Also someone who won't be a liability in that they will be target for the Opposition sickout for their opponent to get the mark. I think you need to start with speed and endurance. Griffin, White, Foley all have speed and are reasonably big men. Don't know enough about Shaw apart from what ive seen on the tv. If Shane Ryan keeps going the way he is in goals he could be a midfield candidate He spends half the game out that direction anyway.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 8, 2019 17:33:31 GMT
Do we need to copy what others do? Tyrone effectively had lots of success with no midfielders at all, but rather going for the breakdown and the dirty ball in the middle. The used to tap almost every ball straight down rather than even trying to win it and make sure someone wins that ball.Even if the opposition win the ball they would crowd the middle third and turn over the ball. Mayo put O'Shea and others with the midfielders in the middle having more or less a 4 man midfield with them breaking at pace when winning ball or going for the physical angle when the opposition wins ball.
In my opinion Kerry need to find what works best with the midfielders we have. Shaw might indeed fit into midfield, though I think it's a waste of his talents, but if we were to experiment with that the league would have been the time and place. You can't just throw a lad into midfield and hope it will work out. It takes game time to get used to the position.
Just like Shane Ryan needs game time as a goalkeeper, and is getting plenty at the moment, now is the time to try a few things. Marc Griffin did very well in midfield so perhaps we will stick with Barry and Griffin for the Mayo game and keep Moran in reserve. We know what Moran brings, we need to know what Moran and Barry can bring. We would still need another midfielder though and tried Brendan O'Sullivan a few times. That didn't work out as expected. Sheehan switched from midfield to the half forwards and back for years and never really established himself at midfield. A specialist midfielder like Marc O'Connor would be great, but he isn't available.
Personally I think Moran and Barry should be the preferred pairing with perhaps 2 other options available to us. Horses for courses has to be the mantra as with so many different systems we need a different players to play different games.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 8, 2019 18:00:45 GMT
I’m know SOS wears number 11 but imo he plays like 8 or 9 he works like a dog. He forages deep he tacles hard he can shoot To me he’s a midfielder in Cener forwards clothing. He’s not the orthodox CF who can drill through the center with power and pace so he drops back a bit and does what he’s good at and we’re winning and all is rosy in the garden .no matter what number you put on his back that’s the game he plays so why change ? As other posters have said leave well enough alone I get that completely. 100%. But now we have two midfielders and a center forward neither of which offer a serious attacking threat being totally honest. But if we think that’s enough attack to beat the Dubs then “happy days”!! SOS I don’t argue has been brilliant for us so far this year but he’ll frighten No one at CF he plays too deep . Can you imagine the problems wed cause to a good team if Stephen O Brien was gunning through the center taking on players. Or David Moran who would cause all kinds of problem s for a defense And let SOS keep doing exactly what he s doing but give us a back a CF that plays higher up is more of a scoring passing threat. To do this we would not have to change any numbers on the jerseys SOS wears 11 but plays like always does exactly same. And DM drifts to the forty with 9 on his back
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Mar 8, 2019 18:12:45 GMT
I’m know SOS wears number 11 but imo he plays like 8 or 9 he works like a dog. He forages deep he tacles hard he can shoot To me he’s a midfielder in Cener forwards clothing. He’s not the orthodox CF who can drill through the center with power and pace so he drops back a bit and does what he’s good at and we’re winning and all is rosy in the garden .no matter what number you put on his back that’s the game he plays so why change ? As other posters have said leave well enough alone I get that completely. 100%. But now we have two midfielders and a center forward neither of which offer a serious attacking threat being totally honest. But if we think that’s enough attack to beat the Dubs then “happy days”!! SOS I don’t argue has been brilliant for us so far this year but he’ll frighten No one at CF he plays too deep . Can you imagine the problems wed cause to a good team if Stephen O Brien was gunning through the center taking on players. Or David Moran who would cause all kinds of problem s for a defense And let SOS keep doing exactly what he s doing but give us a back a CF that plays higher up is more of a scoring passing threat. To do this we would not have to change any numbers on the jerseys SOS wears 11 but plays like always does exactly same. And DM drifts to the forty with 9 on his back Sean O'Shea offers a huge attacking threat. He'll frighten every team in the country. You're talking absolute nonsense.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 8, 2019 18:54:18 GMT
I’m know SOS wears number 11 but imo he plays like 8 or 9 he works like a dog. He forages deep he tacles hard he can shoot To me he’s a midfielder in Cener forwards clothing. He’s not the orthodox CF who can drill through the center with power and pace so he drops back a bit and does what he’s good at and we’re winning and all is rosy in the garden .no matter what number you put on his back that’s the game he plays so why change ? As other posters have said leave well enough alone I get that completely. 100%. But now we have two midfielders and a center forward neither of which offer a serious attacking threat being totally honest. But if we think that’s enough attack to beat the Dubs then “happy days”!! SOS I don’t argue has been brilliant for us so far this year but he’ll frighten No one at CF he plays too deep . Can you imagine the problems wed cause to a good team if Stephen O Brien was gunning through the center taking on players. Or David Moran who would cause all kinds of problem s for a defense And let SOS keep doing exactly what he s doing but give us a back a CF that plays higher up is more of a scoring passing threat. To do this we would not have to change any numbers on the jerseys SOS wears 11 but plays like always does exactly same. And DM drifts to the forty with 9 on his back What threat exactly would Moran offer at centre forward? He would not have the range of passing Sean O Shea has. Doesn't offer the same scoring threat. Is a lazy tackler in my opinion. If I was dublin I would much rather see Moran at CF than SOS. As for O'Brien in the half forwards full time. It's been tried countless times. He's too one dimensional there and carries the ball into contact too much. Best off let him play out from the corner on the loop. Doesn't have the vision either to see a pass there. He's had the odd ocassional success there against Kildare in 15 and a goal against Mayo in 17. He too is a poor tackler. I don't get asking for SOS to be moved to in essence find a place for Moran. Our half forwards of Moynihan, SOS and OBrien have done very well thus far. I would play Moran as a corner forward helping out at midfield before I would move SOS. Our best forwards in the league have been O'Brien, Moynihan,SOS, SOB, Walsh. We have Geaney and Clifford to comeback. And hopefully a fit JOD. Not to mention Keane plays Lyne as a half forward. If Moran starts it will be as a midfielder with a half forward / corner forward doing the box to box stuff for him and letting him play between the 2 45s.
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