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Post by onlykerry on Feb 25, 2019 10:34:26 GMT
The Donegal motion for Dublin to play only one Super 8 game in Croke Park was heavily defeated with some very harsh words used to describe the motion including -
Dublin GAA secretary John Costello slammed the motion as "divisive and mean-spirited" and said it would be a "public relations disaster" for the GAA were they to have to turn supporters away.
I am at a loss to understand how this "fair play" motion was so heavily defeated and also at the acceptance of the above comments from Dublin secretary John Costello.
1/ How is a motion that seeks to democratically correct an unfair situation divisive and mean spirited. 2/ Thousands of fans are turned away from the All Ireland final every year - is it deemed a PR disaster that corporate ticket holders get prized tickets before regular match goers. 3/ Was/Is it a PR disaster that the league games against Dublin and Mayo are sold out and fans will be unable to attend while a larger capacity stadium in Killarney lies idle.
Are we deluded in thinking this association is for the benefit of the grass roots supporters and that the delagate system of democracy in the association is fit for purpose?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 25, 2019 11:00:37 GMT
The Donegal motion for Dublin to play only one Super 8 game in Croke Park was heavily defeated with some very harsh words used to describe the motion including - Dublin GAA secretary John Costello slammed the motion as "divisive and mean-spirited" and said it would be a "public relations disaster" for the GAA were they to have to turn supporters away. I am at a loss to understand how this "fair play" motion was so heavily defeated and also at the acceptance of the above comments from Dublin secretary John Costello. 1/ How is a motion that seeks to democratically correct an unfair situation divisive and mean spirited. 2/ Thousands of fans are turned away from the All Ireland final every year - is it deemed a PR disaster that corporate ticket holders get prized tickets before regular match goers. 3/ Was/Is it a PR disaster that the league games against Dublin and Mayo are sold out and fans will be unable to attend while a larger capacity stadium in Killarney lies idle. Are we deluded in thinking this association is for the benefit of the grass roots supporters and that the delagate system of democracy in the association is fit for purpose? Tyrone Roscommon Dublin Donegal double header. Attendance 53,501.
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Post by southward on Feb 25, 2019 11:20:53 GMT
You wouldn't want to mind John Costello. He's hardly an impartial commentator here and he's trying to defend the indefensible out of self-interest. The "mean-spirited" comment is akin to a child with all the sweets calling another kid mean because they asked for a few.
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Post by taibhse on Feb 25, 2019 12:19:41 GMT
In many respects, this entire escapade of ‘financial doping’ etc. is a Capitalism vs Socialism argument - the two main economic systems most of us are familiar with; that has been brought about by people who occupy the top echelons of the GAA and are irreconcilably opposed.
Imagine the audacity of country 'plebs' questioning this! Disappointed with Sean Kelly.
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Post by yellowbelly on Feb 25, 2019 12:23:19 GMT
Sean Kelly on OTBAM.
#TLDR; I spoke against the motion because it was negative. The wording of the motion contained the phrase "No team shall...."
Oh and the Kerry County Delegates voted against the motion too.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 12:50:06 GMT
From listening to that, it looks like Sean Kelly would favour a situation where a home and away arrangement could be put in place for the super 8 that is designated as the "Croke Park game".
In simple terms this would have meant that Kerry would have been at home to Kildare and away to Monaghan with the Galway v Kerry game up for a home and away arrangement between the counties.
Pity Sean didnt contact Donegal when crafting their motion.
I wonder would John Costello see that as divisive and mean spirited. Would he agree a home and away arrangement with counties or would Thurles be a far as he would go.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 25, 2019 13:23:57 GMT
Isn't it very simple .Are Dublin not the only team who play their neutral game at their home venue.All other counties play one at home,one away and one neutral. What would be wrong with Dublin having to play their neutral game in Thurles if needs be.Its a quirk in the system cos Croke Park is in Dublin but surely theres a logical solution to it.
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Post by wayupnorth on Feb 25, 2019 13:49:44 GMT
Isn't it very simple .Are Dublin not the only team who play their neutral game at their home venue.All other counties play one at home,one away and one neutral. What would be wrong with Dublin having to play their neutral game in Thurles if needs be.Its a quirk in the system cos Croke Park is in Dublin but surely theres a logical solution to it. Problem with that is that it will also apply to other counties and it is not inconceivable that at some time in the future a Kerry V Cork super 8 match would be more suitable in Thurles as a neutral venue. This would lead to howls of protests from corporate seat holders and sponsors. I may be wrong but I think the word "neutral" never appeared in the original Super 8 proposal. It was one home, one away and one CP. The anomalies this throws up in respect of Dublin were predictable and should have been dealt with at that time.
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pillar
Senior Member
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Post by pillar on Feb 25, 2019 14:18:38 GMT
Isn't it very simple .Are Dublin not the only team who play their neutral game at their home venue.All other counties play one at home,one away and one neutral. What would be wrong with Dublin having to play their neutral game in Thurles if needs be.Its a quirk in the system cos Croke Park is in Dublin but surely theres a logical solution to it. Problem with that is that it will also apply to other counties and it is not inconceivable that at some time in the future a Kerry V Cork super 8 match would be more suitable in Thurles as a neutral venue. This would lead to howls of protests from corporate seat holders and sponsors. I may be wrong but I think the word "neutral" never appeared in the original Super 8 proposal. It was one home, one away and one CP. The anomalies this throws up in respect of Dublin were predictable and should have been dealt with at that time. I don't see the point you're making.If it's laid out to be played at a neutral venue then so be it.
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Post by onlykerry on Feb 25, 2019 14:19:25 GMT
Isn't it very simple .Are Dublin not the only team who play their neutral game at their home venue.All other counties play one at home,one away and one neutral. What would be wrong with Dublin having to play their neutral game in Thurles if needs be.Its a quirk in the system cos Croke Park is in Dublin but surely theres a logical solution to it. Problem with that is that it will also apply to other counties and it is not inconceivable that at some time in the future a Kerry V Cork super 8 match would be more suitable in Thurles as a neutral venue. This would lead to howls of protests from corporate seat holders and sponsors. I may be wrong but I think the word "neutral" never appeared in the original Super 8 proposal. It was one home, one away and one CP. The anomalies this throws up in respect of Dublin were predictable and should have been dealt with at that time. I think your comment about "Neutral" is correct and well made - the Super 8's guarantee one home, one away and 1 game in Croke Park (not in a Neutral Venue). Problem is Dublin nominate Croke Park as their home venue thus giving themselves two games in Croke Park. The real nonsense is the manner in which Dublin are catered for in Croke Park - a BS claim that dressing rooms are allocated alpabetically means Dublin have the familiarity of the same dressing room every game. Their fans are given control of Hill 16 and the Hill is always open for Dublin games regardless of the crowd size and they get to warm up in front of the Hill every game. Solution is that Dublin should not be allowed to treat Croke Park as a home venue and the preferential treatment they get for CP games needs to be rectified. Its unlikely that a Neutral venue will be imposed on teams as playing in Croke Park is seen as a perk of the big day out for most counties. It should therefore be a requirement that should Dublin request their home game be played in Croke Park they need the agreement of whoever they are scheduled to play in that fixture, otherwise home venue needs to be Parnell Park.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 25, 2019 14:30:40 GMT
Problem with that is that it will also apply to other counties and it is not inconceivable that at some time in the future a Kerry V Cork super 8 match would be more suitable in Thurles as a neutral venue. This would lead to howls of protests from corporate seat holders and sponsors. I may be wrong but I think the word "neutral" never appeared in the original Super 8 proposal. It was one home, one away and one CP. The anomalies this throws up in respect of Dublin were predictable and should have been dealt with at that time. I think your comment about "Neutral" is correct and well made - the Super 8's guarantee one home, one away and 1 game in Croke Park (not in a Neutral Venue). Problem is Dublin nominate Croke Park as their home venue thus giving themselves two games in Croke Park. The real nonsense is the manner in which Dublin are catered for in Croke Park - a BS claim that dressing rooms are allocated alpabetically means Dublin have the familiarity of the same dressing room every game. Their fans are given control of Hill 16 and the Hill is always open for Dublin games regardless of the crowd size and they get to warm up in front of the Hill every game. Solution is that Dublin should not be allowed to treat Croke Park as a home venue and the preferential treatment they get for CP games needs to be rectified. Its unlikely that a Neutral venue will be imposed on teams as playing in Croke Park is seen as a perk of the big day out for most counties. It should therefore be a requirement that should Dublin request their home game be played in Croke Park they need the agreement of whoever they are scheduled to play in that fixture, otherwise home venue needs to be Parnell Park. This is a good solution.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
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Post by Jo90 on Feb 25, 2019 15:43:56 GMT
Every county should nominate Croke Park as their home venue and see what happens!
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 16:02:54 GMT
Every county should nominate Croke Park as their home venue and see what happens! Love it...
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 16:06:25 GMT
I think your comment about "Neutral" is correct and well made - the Super 8's guarantee one home, one away and 1 game in Croke Park (not in a Neutral Venue). Problem is Dublin nominate Croke Park as their home venue thus giving themselves two games in Croke Park. The real nonsense is the manner in which Dublin are catered for in Croke Park - a BS claim that dressing rooms are allocated alpabetically means Dublin have the familiarity of the same dressing room every game. Their fans are given control of Hill 16 and the Hill is always open for Dublin games regardless of the crowd size and they get to warm up in front of the Hill every game. Solution is that Dublin should not be allowed to treat Croke Park as a home venue and the preferential treatment they get for CP games needs to be rectified. Its unlikely that a Neutral venue will be imposed on teams as playing in Croke Park is seen as a perk of the big day out for most counties. It should therefore be a requirement that should Dublin request their home game be played in Croke Park they need the agreement of whoever they are scheduled to play in that fixture, otherwise home venue needs to be Parnell Park. This is a good solution. Dublin will just opt for Parnell park as home venue and CP as neutral. Getting money and games into the regions is important
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 25, 2019 16:54:53 GMT
Dublin will just opt for Parnell park as home venue and CP as neutral. Getting money and games into the regions is important You're arguing a different toss: the main thrust of the discussion is about Dublin having two matches in Croke Park.
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Post by onlykerry on Feb 25, 2019 17:52:09 GMT
Dublin will just opt for Parnell park as home venue and CP as neutral. Getting money and games into the regions is important Might not be that simple for them Mick - capacity of Parnell Park is nominally 13499 but could be a lot less in practice due to safety concerns. Season Ticket holders are guaranteed access thus leaving very few tickets available to the general public. Based on precedence!! (and Costello's claim that refusing fans on capacity grounds would be a PR disaster) they could be forced to take their home game to Portlaois or some other such venue if Croke Park was not available (or agreed to by the opposition). The game to target is their home game in this whole debate - not the (legitimate) Croke Park game.
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kot
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Post by kot on Feb 25, 2019 19:36:31 GMT
"People might not get to see the games" what a pitiful argument. Lots of people would like to go to see the Wimbledon Final, The Super Bowl, the 100 m final in the olympics. I could go on and on and on.
And the comments of the former GAA president were appalling really.
Costello, sur that man is a parody of himself sometimes. No doubt done great work for the G.A.A. but his "woe is me" public & written statements trying to deny that Dublin have no advantage (despite the glaringly obvious advantages they have) are something else.
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Post by thebluepanther on Feb 25, 2019 19:42:19 GMT
The problem arose when the GAA designed this format last year. There is no neutral venue in this format. A County who makes it to the super 8 would get to Play one game in CrokePark , one game at Home and one game Away. The problem is Dublin already use Crokepark as their home ground. This format meant they would get 2 games there. The GAA had to know this would create a problem. Currently Dublins home game is the one that has to be moved if CrokePark is deemed not to be their home ground. Then we will play in Parnell Park , not outside Dublin. Potentially we then could have a Dublin v Kerry or a Dublin v Mayo super 8 game in Parnell park with about 8,500 to 9,000 capacity. Personally im ok with this as are a lot of Dubs . We are getting sick of this debacle . Also i love the atmosphere in the Neller. , but it would be interesting to see the roars of anger from supporters who couldnt get in , if this came to pass. Id agree with it being unfair that Dublin get 2 games in Crokepark in the super 8s , The problem with Donegals motion was that they worded it wrong , which if passed could have future consequences for other counties. Dublin are getting all the flack , yet we will play anywhere and this is going to keep rumbling on.
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Post by southward on Feb 25, 2019 19:57:22 GMT
The Parnell Park idea is a red herring and about as plausible as splitting Dublin in two.
The problem, as Panther says, is the format. Instead of home, away and Croker, it should be home, away and neutral ground. And with no bull about Croker being neutral when it comes to Dublin. Everyone knows what neutral is - at the very least it's a stadium that's not in one team's County and generally it will be a suitable venue reasonably equidistant from both teams or as otherwise agreed between them. And of course if both teams happen to want Croker for their neutral game - well why not?
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 20:22:21 GMT
The problem arose when the GAA designed this format last year. There is no neutral venue in this format. A County who makes it to the super 8 would get to Play one game in CrokePark , one game at Home and one game Away. The problem is Dublin already use Crokepark as their home ground. This format meant they would get 2 games there. The GAA had to know this would create a problem. Currently Dublins home game is the one that has to be moved if CrokePark is deemed not to be their home ground. Then we will play in Parnell Park , not outside Dublin. Potentially we then could have a Dublin v Kerry or a Dublin v Mayo super 8 game in Parnell park with about 8,500 to 9,000 capacity. Personally im ok with this as are a lot of Dubs . We are getting sick of this debacle . Also i love the atmosphere in the Neller. , but it would be interesting to see the roars of anger from supporters who couldnt get in , if this came to pass. Id agree with it being unfair that Dublin get 2 games in Crokepark in the super 8s , The problem with Donegals motion was that they worded it wrong , which if passed could have future consequences for other counties. Dublin are getting all the flack , yet we will play anywhere and this is going to keep rumbling on. by designating one of the games for CP, the GAA were clearly giving Dublin a leg up. Would you be happy with one home game, one away game and the other one on a home aand away arrangement between competing ccounties?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 25, 2019 20:32:16 GMT
The problem arose when the GAA designed this format last year. There is no neutral venue in this format. A County who makes it to the super 8 would get to Play one game in CrokePark , one game at Home and one game Away. The problem is Dublin already use Crokepark as their home ground. This format meant they would get 2 games there. The GAA had to know this would create a problem. Currently Dublins home game is the one that has to be moved if CrokePark is deemed not to be their home ground. Then we will play in Parnell Park , not outside Dublin. Potentially we then could have a Dublin v Kerry or a Dublin v Mayo super 8 game in Parnell park with about 8,500 to 9,000 capacity. Personally im ok with this as are a lot of Dubs . We are getting sick of this debacle . Also i love the atmosphere in the Neller. , but it would be interesting to see the roars of anger from supporters who couldnt get in , if this came to pass. Id agree with it being unfair that Dublin get 2 games in Crokepark in the super 8s , The problem with Donegals motion was that they worded it wrong , which if passed could have future consequences for other counties. Dublin are getting all the flack , yet we will play anywhere and this is going to keep rumbling on. by designating one of the games for CP, the GAA were clearly giving Dublin a leg up. Would you be happy with one home game, one away game and the other one on a home aand away arrangement between competing ccounties? It was hardly to give Dublin a leg up come on.
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Post by southward on Feb 25, 2019 20:39:35 GMT
One issue I'd see with a home and away arrangement is where you have an outlier or a once-in-a-generation team making the Super 8s, say a Fermanagh or Wexford. It could be yonks before they get there again and be in the same half of the draw as you.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 20:40:19 GMT
by designating one of the games for CP, the GAA were clearly giving Dublin a leg up. Would you be happy with one home game, one away game and the other one on a home aand away arrangement between competing ccounties? It was hardly to give Dublin a leg up come on. ok then... an advantage
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Post by buck02 on Feb 25, 2019 20:43:01 GMT
After listening to John Costello over the past while I think it's obvious that the Dublin County Boards PR machine have been watching a lot of Comical Ali's interviews from the Iraq war.
Central Council could change this if they so wished (look at the handpass experiment) but they don't want to. Leaving it go before Congress was only lip service as they had the voted wrapped up all along.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 25, 2019 20:44:37 GMT
It was hardly to give Dublin a leg up come on. ok then... an advantage Come on.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 20:54:41 GMT
i asked the question of bluepanther..
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Post by thebluepanther on Feb 25, 2019 21:19:22 GMT
The problem arose when the GAA designed this format last year. There is no neutral venue in this format. A County who makes it to the super 8 would get to Play one game in CrokePark , one game at Home and one game Away. The problem is Dublin already use Crokepark as their home ground. This format meant they would get 2 games there. The GAA had to know this would create a problem. Currently Dublins home game is the one that has to be moved if CrokePark is deemed not to be their home ground. Then we will play in Parnell Park , not outside Dublin. Potentially we then could have a Dublin v Kerry or a Dublin v Mayo super 8 game in Parnell park with about 8,500 to 9,000 capacity. Personally im ok with this as are a lot of Dubs . We are getting sick of this debacle . Also i love the atmosphere in the Neller. , but it would be interesting to see the roars of anger from supporters who couldnt get in , if this came to pass. Id agree with it being unfair that Dublin get 2 games in Crokepark in the super 8s , The problem with Donegals motion was that they worded it wrong , which if passed could have future consequences for other counties. Dublin are getting all the flack , yet we will play anywhere and this is going to keep rumbling on. by designating one of the games for CP, the GAA were clearly giving Dublin a leg up. Would you be happy with one home game, one away game and the other one on a home aand away arrangement between competing ccounties? I don't think the GAA were thinking about giving Dublin a leg up. They were thinking about extra revenue, hence extra games and picking CrokePark for one of the 3 games to be played allows them maximise the revenue . Off course they don't want Dublin out of CrokePark ( we are their cash cow). So us playing 2 games there gives more revenue. Same way they wanted Kildare to play Mayo in CrokePark last year( They wanted the Mayo crowd in Crokepark not Newbridge) I dont think there is any solution that will make everyone happy , but more use of provincial grounds instead of Croker will add to better atmosphere that's for sure. As for Home and away , genuinely dont care where we play. Would love Castlebar or Killarney for an away Championship game.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 21:28:27 GMT
I believe you BP. I am sure you would love to play Kerry in Killarney every second year in high summer when both are provincial champs. Ye are welcome to designate CP for home games as long as the other game is rotated home and away between competing counties. A small tweak is all thats needed.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 25, 2019 21:30:15 GMT
I believe you BP. I am sure you would love to play Kerry in Killarney every second year in high summer when both are provincial champs. Ye are welcome to designate CP for home games as long as the other game is rotated home and away between competing counties. A small tweak is all thats needed. Every six years, no?
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2019 21:34:13 GMT
I think you are right
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