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Post by dc84 on Oct 17, 2018 20:00:31 GMT
Also he posted some stats from the 2018 championship. Sean O'Se showing up very well here in his first season. Clifford topping the point attempt list. Ludicrous stuff for his first season. The conversion rate is the really encouraging thing, if we can get him the ball more he will destroy teams on his own
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 24, 2018 17:25:45 GMT
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Post by sullyschoice on Oct 24, 2018 17:41:16 GMT
Team officials standing inside the white line isn't helping either. At an underage match I was involved with at the weekend, of the 5 mentors present, 4 were standing inside the line at one point. I was the only one outside when I noticed. (I am sure I stepped over at some point but I genuinely make the effort not to). There was no incidents at that particular match but it is a common flashpoint.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 25, 2018 10:32:35 GMT
I think college American Football is coming back in August 2020 but thankfully in the Aviva Stadium.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 25, 2018 10:57:56 GMT
In spite of all the doom and gloom there is still some romance and betting chances left in the game.
By John Fogarty GAA Correspondent
If John Evans didn’t know he achieved something special with Ardfinnan, he realised it when a one-armed Babs Keating, the club’s most famous son, channeled his inner David Pleat and invaded the Holycross pitch after the club’s county semi-final win over Loughmore-Castleiney.
“Babs came running onto the field with the left shoulder strapped and he shook hands with me and he said, ‘You don’t know what you’ve done for this little village’,” chuckles Evans.
“To be quite honest with you, it’s been a huge lift for myself. Sometimes when you’re a coach, county or not, and something like this comes along it’s just so good to see the smiles on people’s faces.
“It’s great to see a traditional club being revived.”
Ardfinnan’s progress to a first final in 13 years is as close to a Gaelic football fairytale given they were one game away from relegation play-offs back in August thanks to a 3-22 to 0-7 loss to Clonmel Commercials in April.
It was then Petey Savage, one of Tipperary football’s greatest characters, sent out the signal for Evans to perform a rescue mission as coach.
“He was involved in bringing me into Tipperary 12 years ago,” recalls Evans.
“He rang me and he said, ‘My heart is broken. My club are after being beaten by 24 points by Clonmel Commercials. We’re facing relegation, everything is falling apart and lads are leaving and they don’t want to play.’ He asked me to come in and I said, ‘Not a hope, Petey, I’m just after finishing a hard campaign with Wicklow’.
He quoted me his age — 74 — and he spoke about the great history of the club. He’s a die-hard and he said ‘you won’t leave me down after all these years’ so I said ‘right, I’ll tell you what I’ll do, I’ll go in for a few weeks’.
Evans’ mission was accomplished as soon as Ardfinnan beat Éire Óg Annacarty but he sensed there was more in them. “I knew they had a great tradition but they were on low tide. All I had to do was win one game and that saved them from relegation. That’s the way it’s been for them the last five years but this year it looked like they were certain to go down.
“From there then, that gave us a bit of heart and belief and the next thing we went and played Aherlow and we were on the front-foot. They played great stuff against Aherlow. It was a sunny day in Cashel and I remember saying to them on the field afterwards ‘look, lads, it’s time to call a spade a spade. Are we interested in going on?’ I also said, ‘Lads, you are after giving me as big a lift as I’ve got in my life’.
“I was so proud of them.
“The next thing we drew Ballyporeen, their neighbours, and that was motivation in itself. They won that game 0-22 to 0-9 and they were enjoying their football. They were so low that all the coaching and instruction you were putting in they were absorbing it.”
Ardfinnan were 4/1 outsiders against Loughmore-Castleiney but that didn’t matter a hoot to Evans.
"Everyone was saying we were in bonus territory but I thought we were improving every time. Neither the team nor myself knew their limits and the one thing I was instilling in them was they were going to be tested in every facet by Loughmore because my admiration for Loughmore goes beyond saying they’re a great club."
Sure enough, they stood the test and deservedly so as tight as it was.
“It’s gone way beyond anything we were dreaming of. (Former Tipperary football chairman) Joe Hannigan rang me and said, ‘You were 200/1 starting out. I’m kicking myself I didn’t put money on ye.’ You would have been a madman putting a euro on us at the start.”
Moyle Rovers, themselves hoping to end a nine-year spell without a title, stand in the way but since Ardfinnan have got this far they are indulging the belief they can take them.
"It’s for the likes of Petey Savage whose life is only football that I’m most happy for,” says Evans.
“He smokes a pipe, walks with a blackthorn stick and I think it’s to bate off any other fella who’s bigger than him!”
“You can’t go anywhere unless you have the CCs under the bonnet and we brought in a few young fellas who had never played for the club before. They were sponges, took in what they were learning and they carried it out. You know, that’s what life is all about.”
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Post by glengael on Oct 28, 2018 18:28:04 GMT
You would wonder what they've been doing in Kilkenny for the past few months given that their County Final was only played today.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 28, 2018 21:11:19 GMT
You would wonder what they've been doing in Kilkenny for the past few months given that their County Final was only played today. They used to play CC during ICC but sure the round robin put paid to that.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 28, 2018 21:15:35 GMT
You would wonder what they've been doing in Kilkenny for the past few months given that their County Final was only played today. All boils down to Paddys Day fixture and the summer exodus of student players during the off college time. Blaming the county game is a convenient smoke screen..................
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Oct 28, 2018 21:50:53 GMT
You would wonder what they've been doing in Kilkenny for the past few months given that their County Final was only played today. All boils down to Paddys Day fixture and the summer exodus of student players during the off college time. Blaming the county game is a convenient smoke screen.................. nail on the head, clubs do not really want championship at the height of the summer, too many players away
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Oct 31, 2018 15:06:23 GMT
When Alan Brogan recently selected the 15 footballers he felt should be honoured at Friday’s All-Stars, he ran out of superlatives for Brian Fenton.
“It’s difficult to find something to say about Fenton that hasn’t already been said.”
Everyone that follows and covers Gaelic Games could identify with Brogan — there’s only so many times you can mention the Raheny man has yet to lose a championship game in a Dublin shirt — but crunching the numbers, we’ve found there is something new and significant to say about Fenton’s brilliance.
This past season he not only was the highest scoring midfielder from play in the national league but in the summer he went on to score more than any other midfielder has from play in a single championship.
Fenton had always been able to chip in with a point since breaking onto the team in 2015. In his first three league campaigns he scored a total of 1-10 in 21 appearances, 17 as a starter, an average of 0.62 points per game. In the championship he registered 0-11 over 20 starts in those first three summer campaigns, an average of 0.55 points per game. Essentially you’re talking about someone who was good for four points over the course of a typical league or championship for Dublin.
That’s a decent scoring rate. More than decent in fact. An all-time great like Darragh Ó Sé, who was well able to bomb over a point himself when he felt the occasion demanded it, had a career-championship average of just 0.40 points per game, with 1-3 over a six-game championship campaign being the most he ever clocked up in a single summer.
In 2018 though Fenton’s game — or at least his scoring — took his game to another level, as he metamorphosed from merely a midfielder who could score into a scoring midfielder akin to Sean Cavanagh or his own clubman and childhood hero, Ciarán Whelan, albeit a less swashbuckling version.
It’s something of a statistical landmark for a Gaelic footballer to average over a point a game, especially a non-forward; Lee Keegan is the only back in football history with at least five championship campaigns in the bank and a career scoring average over the 1.0 mark.
In this year’s league, Fenton averaged 1.7 points a game, racking up 1-9 from play over seven league outings.
No other Division One midfielder scored more than six points from play. In fact, Fenton outscored every other Division One midfield pairing. Tyrone had a litany of revolving midfielders who between them racked up 1-8, still one point shy of Fenton alone. In Division Two, Gary Brennan of Clare stacked up 1-6 from play, and in Division Three John Heslin scored 1-11 from play in all, but at least four of those points were as a nominated forward. The entire Kerry midfield scored just 0-2 over the spring, Mayo’s only 0-4.
There have been more eye-catching and high-scoring league campaigns from midfielders – in fact, from midfielders from Fenton’s own club. In 1999, Whelan was the only All-Star whose team failed to progress beyond the provincial final but no eyebrows were raised when he approached the podium to receive his statuette; en route to contesting that season’s league final, Whelan racked up a ridiculous tally of 3-15 over 11 games.
That campaign though was an outlier. What Fenton did this past spring was as impressive as anything since.
In the championship, Fenton went to another stratosphere, not only surpassing the one-point average mark but smashing the two-point ceiling.
Over the course of seven championship games, he ran up 1-13, more than any midfielder has ever scored from play in a single summer.
The only midfielder to even come close to that in the pre-qualifier era is Jack O’Shea. O’Shea was a phenomenon, with an exercise like this, scouring his scoring records, only underlining the already-formidable case that he’s the greatest player to ever play the sport.
In 1981, he scored from play in all four of Kerry’s championship games, including the goal that wrapped up the final. It was after the failed five-in-a-row bid though that his scoring rate went into overdrive, hitting the 2.0 point average rate for a remarkable five summers in a row.
In 1983, he scored 4-1 in just two games. In 1987, another campaign when Kerry failed to get out of Munster, he notched 2-5 over three games.
Sandwiched between that, Kerry won three consecutive All-Irelands with O’Shea scoring 4-19 over 13 championship games.
His largest single-summer return was in 1985 when over five games he ran up 3-7, matching Fenton’s return this summer of 16 points.
The only thing was, some of O’Shea’s scores were from deadballs, his goal in the All- Ireland final coming from a penalty. That’s why he now lags behind Fenton’s past summer (Mick O’Connell was another high-scoring midfielder that didn’t quite match Fenton’s return from play, but would if you included scores from frees and 45s).
To appreciate just how remarkable O’Shea was though, you only need look at the scoring rate of every other All-Star midfielder in the 1980s. Fourteen times in that decade a statuette was handed out to a midfielder not called Jack O’Shea. Only two of them — Eugene McKenna and Willie Joe Padden — managed to score more than three scores over the summer for which they were honoured. Nine of them managed just the one score.
Anthony Tohill assumed O’Shea’s status as both the most complete and highest-scoring midfielder in the game but like O’Shea wouldn’t quite hit from play what Fenton did this past summer. (Surprisingly, the highest average return from play by a midfielder in a single season during the ’90s was Cork’s Shay Fahy in the year of the De Double; before booming over four astonishing points against Meath in the final, he had fired 1-4 in Cork’s three previous games, for a championship average of 2.75 ppg).
In the backdoor era Sean Cavanagh took up the torch from Tohill, his idol as a kid. In his first year operating in midfield, the seminal summer of 2003, the Tyrone man racked up 1-9 in seven games. In 2004 he ran up 1-11 in six games. In 2005 he hit 0-12 in 10 games.
Even in ultimately disappointing seasons like 2006 and 2007 for Tyrone he still matched or surpassed the 1.0 per game mark.
Ciarán Whelan would similarly hit or surpass the point-per-game rate for five consecutive summers. In fact prior to Fenton, he was the possessor of the record for the highest return from play by a midfielder in a single summer. In 2001 he kicked 1-12 over six games.
This year though Fenton exceeded that, kicking an extra point with an extra game.
No-one came close to him this summer. In fact no midfield combination did. Monaghan’s pairing of Niall Kearns and Darren Hughes were the nearest, kicking five points apiece over nine games. Tommy Moolick of Kildare was the only other midfielder to even hit the 1.0 mark, scoring seven points from play in seven games.
We can’t say for sure but it would appear as if it’s one of Dublin’s Key Performance Indicators and targets to outscore the opposing midfield. Only once in their 16 league and championship games this season was their midfield outscored by the opposition’s.
Even when Fenton was rested for the dead-rubber Super 8 game against Roscommon, Paul Flynn and Michael Darragh Macauley continued ‘The Process’ by scoring 1-3 and 1-1 respectively.
There’s so much more to midfield play than scoring, just as there’s so much more to Fenton’s game than scoring. But even with orthodox midfield play on the decline — in as fluid a set-up as Tyrone, anyone from Mattie Donnelly to Padraig Hampsey to Cathal McShane could be Colm Cavanagh’s nominated midfield partner, and even then Cavanagh will be dropping back in his famous patrolling-sweeping role — it seems an obvious place to make gains for teams hoping to close the gap between themselves and Dublin.
Take Kerry. Each of the past two summers their midfield pairing has combined for just 0-6 over five championship games.
Maybe Jack Barry is on a similar, upward trajectory to Fenton in his early years, scoring 0-3 in his rookie year of 2016, 0-4 last summer, but Kerry need him or another midfielder to start cracking the 1.0ppg threshold.
Mayo, for all the big names and talents they’ve had around that sector, haven’t had anyone approximate that scoring ratio. In both their defeats last summer they managed only a point from midfield. They got no scores from midfield in either of their two defeats in 2017.
In fact there hasn’t been a single championship defeat this Mayo side have suffered since James Horan’s first appointment in which their starting midfield outscored the opposition’s.
Fenton, in contrast, has scored five points in five All-Ireland finals, just as he has scored five points over five All-Ireland semi-finals, and his championship career total has now hit that magical 1.0 mark; with 1-24 from 27 games, he’s already just six points shy off Darragh Ó Sé’s career-championship tally despite playing only a third as many championship matches.
Not that he’ll be getting notions. Jacko once kicked 0-5 from play in a single semi-final, against Galway, in ’84.
But that’s the company Fenton is orbiting now. That’s the conversation he’s in: with Tohill, Whelan, Cavanagh, Darragh, even Jacko.
He may or may not pip his fellow Dubs Jack McCaffrey and Ciaran Kilkenny to the 2018 Player of the Year award.
But going down as the greatest non-Kerry midfielder in history is a possibility as well.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 1, 2018 9:01:09 GMT
David Clifford picking up an All Star already is a sensation.
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Post by dc84 on Nov 1, 2018 9:15:28 GMT
David Clifford picking up an All Star already is a sensation. Totally agree first of many (hopefully) who was the last debutant to win one?
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Nov 1, 2018 9:17:19 GMT
Brian Howard possibly although he may have played in 2017. Otherwise Con O’Callaghan
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Post by dc84 on Nov 1, 2018 9:27:30 GMT
Seems there have been quite a few paul murphy and mchugh in 14
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 1, 2018 10:11:14 GMT
First year out of minor apparently Gooch, Maurice Fitz, Kevin O'Neill, and Jimmy Barry-Murphy.
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Post by onlykerry on Nov 1, 2018 10:29:07 GMT
Whelan suggesting Cluxton's non courting of the media is the reason he has not won an All Star in the last four years - Beggan more than deserved it this year I think. However the question of media bias does arise when one considers Tyrone only got 2 - this is the lowest for a losing finalist since Cork got only 1 back in 2007. Mayo (deservedly) with no All Star for the first time since 2010 - went from 6 last year to 0 this year (did they become a bad team overnight!!, no I would argue, they were over represented last year on the basis of their SF and F games).
Is it time to take the All Star selection out of the hands of media and use a data based system for making the selections?
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Nov 1, 2018 11:44:19 GMT
Whelan suggesting Cluxton's non courting of the media is the reason he has not won an All Star in the last four years - Beggan more than deserved it this year I think. However the question of media bias does arise when one considers Tyrone only got 2 - this is the lowest for a losing finalist since Cork got only 1 back in 2007. Mayo (deservedly) with no All Star for the first time since 2010 - went from 6 last year to 0 this year (did they become a bad team overnight!!, no I would argue, they were over represented last year on the basis of their SF and F games). Is it time to take the All Star selection out of the hands of media and use a data based system for making the selections? But there was no other Tyrone player even remotely in the reckoning for an All-Star. It was a fairly forgettable Tyrone team to be honest. As with every year people give out about players being left out or in the wrong positions, this is the nature of selecting this type of team.
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Post by sullyschoice on Nov 1, 2018 14:54:24 GMT
I never got over excited about the All Stars. You will rarely pick a team that satisfies everyone. Heard plenty bleating around here about Cluxton and Rock. If Dubs got 15 All Stars some fellas wouldn't be happy
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Post by dc84 on Nov 1, 2018 15:51:50 GMT
I never got over excited about the All Stars. You will rarely pick a team that satisfies everyone. Heard plenty bleating around here about Cluxton and Rock. If Dubs got 15 All Stars some fellas wouldn't be happy Me too, i just said havent ye a lot to be bitter about!!! If kerry won the ai next year i wouldnt really care who got an all star, could be an english rugby/rangers combined xv as far as im concerned😀
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Post by Galway breeze on Nov 1, 2018 17:57:29 GMT
I think there is too much made about all-star awards. The team that picks up most all-stars is the team that wins All Irelands or is an all-star more important then winning an All Ireland?
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Post by southward on Nov 1, 2018 18:26:13 GMT
Whelan suggesting Cluxton's non courting of the media is the reason he has not won an All Star in the last four years - Beggan more than deserved it this year I think. However the question of media bias does arise when one considers Tyrone only got 2 - this is the lowest for a losing finalist since Cork got only 1 back in 2007.Mayo (deservedly) with no All Star for the first time since 2010 - went from 6 last year to 0 this year (did they become a bad team overnight!!, no I would argue, they were over represented last year on the basis of their SF and F games). Is it time to take the All Star selection out of the hands of media and use a data based system for making the selections? More the case that a place in the final fell into their laps than anything else, really.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 1, 2018 21:48:29 GMT
David Clifford picking up an All Star already is a sensation. Not really. A class act, in the same parish as Sean O'Shea & Mark O'Connor.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 1, 2018 21:51:51 GMT
I never got over excited about the All Stars. You will rarely pick a team that satisfies everyone. Heard plenty bleating around here about Cluxton and Rock. If Dubs got 15 All Stars some fellas wouldn't be happy They were great awards back in the day when the best players were picked from their playing positions. Cavanagh at 3 is farcical. Cluxton' s omission since 2013 cheapens the concept.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 1, 2018 21:54:50 GMT
Maurice Fitz was 10 months younger in 1988 than DC when he won his All-Star straight out of minor.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 1, 2018 22:04:32 GMT
Set up nicely now for the correlation of Cluxton next year regarding the All-Star gong to go with lifting Sam five times on the trot. Worthwhile for All Star cynics to rush off to Paddy Power in the morning.......! Nice symmetry all around.
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Post by clarinman on Nov 2, 2018 0:38:31 GMT
I never got over excited about the All Stars. You will rarely pick a team that satisfies everyone. Heard plenty bleating around here about Cluxton and Rock. If Dubs got 15 All Stars some fellas wouldn't be happy They were great awards back in the day when the best players were picked from their playing positions. Cavanagh at 3 is farcical. Cluxton' s omission since 2013 cheapens the concept. Back in the day Eoin Liston won an all star at centre forward. Nothing has changed.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 2, 2018 7:45:08 GMT
They were great awards back in the day when the best players were picked from their playing positions. Cavanagh at 3 is farcical. Cluxton' s omission since 2013 cheapens the concept. Back in the day Eoin Liston won an all star at centre forward. Nothing has changed. Eoin Liston played all the 1984 NFL at centre forward......................
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Post by piggott on Nov 2, 2018 9:39:20 GMT
Maurice Fitz was 10 months younger in 1988 than DC when he won his All-Star straight out of minor. Will DC have to wait 9 years for Celtic Cross?
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Post by dc84 on Nov 2, 2018 12:27:31 GMT
Maurice Fitz was 10 months younger in 1988 than DC when he won his All-Star straight out of minor. Will DC have to wait 9 years for Celtic Cross? You should get 8 weeks for such blasphemy oh wait thats not illegal anymore🤔
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Nov 2, 2018 14:10:25 GMT
Last weekend saw Kerry's kingpins, Dr. Crokes, secured their third county title in a row. The result will have a significant impact on the reign of Peter Keane, particularly in terms of the senior side's captaincy. They do it differently in the south-west. The reigning county champions nominate the team captain and that information is relayed from county board to management. In 2005, Spa GAA proposed a motion to end that tradition but it received minimal support. Last year Fionn Fitzgerald was nominated as team captain. However, his inability to make the starting team saw his inexperienced club-mates Shane Murphy and Gavin White carry that mantle during the Championship. This is not a rare phenomenon. Eoin Brosnan found himself in a similar position during the 2001 All-Ireland semi-final, when he found himself captaining the side in his debut year. Later, Brosnan famously kept 2006 team captain Declan O'Sullivan out of the team up until that year's All-Ireland final. As Kerry prepare for a new dawn, the calls have been forthcoming for change. Pat Spillane told the Sunday World it has reached "farcical" levels: "This is beyond a joke at this stage." In an interview with the Irish Examiner, Kieran Donaghy also urged for the end of the practice: “I think the manager should pick his captain. There’s enough of an honour when you win your county championship and you were one of the men who helped drive them over the line." Few are more familiar with this tradition than Charlie Nelligan. Across an extraordinary 16-year career that included seven All-Ireland titles with the Kingdom, he played under 14 different captains. He had the honour himself in 1989, although it certainly doesn't protrude as a career highlight. "Jesus, was I captain? I couldn’t tell you, sure you'd know I suppose. We'd a great year with the club alright and I vaguely remember getting nominated but that was a different time for us." A different time indeed. That year was a rare dry spell for Kerry. They had not been in an All-Ireland final for three years and bowed out of the Championship at the provincial stage against their rivals and eventual winners Cork. Nelligan stresses he understands the arguments to do away with the tradition. However, he is quick to highlight that it has often resulted in significant positives. "I can see both sides of the argument for the present. In my time we had Mickey Ned O’Sullivan, Tim Kennelly, Ogie Moran, Jimmy Deenihan. These were lads who had all proven themselves." "Then you have a fella who hadn’t, like Ambrose Donovan. He was a young guy coming up and he was made captain. But it made him, he turned out to be a fabulous captain. It was a big thing on his shoulders but he rose to it, it actually made a great player out of him. That responsibility can do that." The story of Charlie Nelligan's debut is a remarkable one. Fresh from a successful underage stint as goalkeeper, he was called into the senior squad in 1976 when John O'Keefe was captain. Paudie O'Mahony was the established number one and Nelligan was content to spend the year on the sidelines, biding his time. His time arrived earlier than expected when O'Mahony went down with an injury mid-game and Nelligan was forced to make his debut, in Croke Park, against Dublin, on All-Ireland final day. I came on in the All-Ireland final, nobody saw that coming! I was the last person in the world who thought he’d be playing that day. I had a minor medal in my pocket and two U21s. I was sitting down to enjoy a match and next thing it was a roar 'get up! get out!' There was nothing you could do about that. I certainly was shown the step up from minor to senior level. It was a different ball game. After that the older lads were great. For the following league, the players made a huge effort, they rallied around me because Paudie was still injured for that. I was the number one at that stage but was glad to have all the support. We won the league. There is no doubt that a clean slate is important, but Nelligan still hails this self-sacrifice for the greater good. "A lot of the older headers are gone now, Darran left and I have the height of respect for him to do it. His pace hadn’t gone, he showed that last year. But I’d say he saw Peter Keane needed to rebuild and took the choice to make it easier. This is a new team moving on." Nelligan net-minding duties included Kerry's golden age 1878 to 1982 four in a row winning team. Was there one particular style of captain that stood out? They each had their own style. Guys had to lift themselves and others in the course of battle. To set standards and have everyone drive on. Ambrose (O'Donovan) was that. He was tough and you knew it. Ogie (Moran) was different. He wouldn't say much but he was a pure gent and everyone respected him for it. You had a team that time, I'd say if Mickey Mouse was there he’d have gone well as captain of that team! This Kerry team need much more than Mickey Mouse, but the type of leader is difficult to quantify. He cites Stephen Cluxton as another example of a captain that leads with deeds rather than words. As the conversation draws to a close, it would be remiss to not ask about Cluxton's side and the raging debate as to which dominant team was superior. Nelligan is unsure on which era's super-outfit was better, but he'd be keen to find out. "I don’t have much time for who is better, it is too hard to say. But I will tell you this, I’d love to have a crack off them! They are a great team but we weren’t too bad ourselves. It’d be the biggest test we ever got!" www.balls.ie/gaa/if-mickey-mouse-was-there-hed-have-gone-well-as-captain-of-that-team-399871
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