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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 9, 2018 23:10:34 GMT
Ricey McMenamin was on Off the Ball roadshow from Galway in the last hour telling stories of the abusive, anonymous letters he received from the same Kerry man over the years. Some can of worms after being opened up. I wouldn't be losing a second sleep over lettergate to be honest. Storm in an egg cup. Storm in a teacup? Mayo management had to bring in the Gardaí during Horan's management. It is rather flabbergasting for you to attempt to downplay this: it's bizarre.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2018 7:06:04 GMT
The "METOO" aspect proves that lots of counties has a cohort who write vitriolic letters.
I think EF erred in coming out with this in the manner he did. As he says himself it "just came out".
He also said that criticism of himself wasnt a good environment for young players. Thats understandable.
In a display of incompetence it was reported in the media that young players were getting abuse by kerry supporters.
His OFF THE BALL interview allowed him to be cool, reflective and careful and he clarified matters. He made the valid point that it crossed the line that a player,albeit a senior player, got a vitriolic letter even if it didnt knock a stir out of the player.
He also told us that he would not classify the letters as hate mail and said he got lots from people giving him what they regarded as helpful advise in team selection and tactics. He kept them all.
One unfortunate aspect of the whole affair is that it deflected attention away from his record as manager...the good and the bad....and it tarnished the image of Kerry fans in general.
Had he kept his council and made his points as he did in the OTB interview, the points he wanted to make woould have been clearer and not reported inaccurately.
Hindsight is great however.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 10, 2018 8:33:58 GMT
I wouldn't be losing a second sleep over lettergate to be honest. Storm in an egg cup. Storm in a teacup? Mayo management had to bring in the Gardaí during Horan's management. It is rather flabbergasting for you to attempt to downplay this: it's bizarre. Bizarrely I said nothing about a tea cup. I'm just bemused Eamonn mentioned this just even in a throw away comment never mind reaching in for the cliff example. Martin Breheny sums up everything that needs to be said about lettergate. Read it, it might lessen your flabbergasted state. Letters were always there there is nothing that can be done about them except show young players coming in what to expect and how to deal with it. I'm saying nothing more about this. It has got enough oxygen already in print media from a few who took an opportunity to run with it without thinking too much about it first. www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/martin-breheny-highlighting-hate-mail-may-be-playing-into-hands-of-twisted-mentalities-37198690.html
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 10, 2018 8:38:05 GMT
The "METOO" aspect proves that lots of counties has a cohort who write vitriolic letters. I think EF erred in coming out with this in the manner he did. As he says himself it "just came out". He also said that criticism of himself wasnt a good environment for young players. Thats understandable. In a display of incompetence it was reported in the media that young players were getting abuse by kerry supporters. His OFF THE BALL interview allowed him to be cool, reflective and careful and he clarified matters. He made the valid point that it crossed the line that a player,albeit a senior player, got a vitriolic letter even if it didnt knock a stir out of the player. He also told us that he would not classify the letters as hate mail and said he got lots from people giving him what they regarded as helpful advise in team selection and tactics. He kept them all. One unfortunate aspect of the whole affair is that it deflected attention away from his record as manager...the good and the bad....and it tarnished the image of Kerry fans in general. Had he kept his council and made his points as he did in the OTB interview, the points he wanted to make woould have been clearer and not reported inaccurately. Hindsight is great however. I thought the interview was good in light of events and his departure. Only those who want to tarnish Kerry fans will. I don't think they are worth worrying about.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 10, 2018 8:59:34 GMT
Storm in a teacup? Mayo management had to bring in the Gardaí during Horan's management. It is rather flabbergasting for you to attempt to downplay this: it's bizarre. Bizarrely I said nothing about a tea cup. I'm just bemused Eamonn mentioned this just even in a throw away comment never mind reaching in for the cliff example. Martin Breheny sums up everything that needs to be said about lettergate. Read it, it might lessen your flabbergasted state. Letters were always there there is nothing that can be done about them except show young players coming in what to expect and how to deal with it. I'm saying nothing more about this. It has got enough oxygen already in print media from a few who took an opportunity to run with it without thinking too much about it first. www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/martin-breheny-highlighting-hate-mail-may-be-playing-into-hands-of-twisted-mentalities-37198690.html Egg cup, tea cup; tomato, tomato. You mightn't lose sleep over it but maybe the people receiving them might. Did you ever send a letter to an IC manager or player yourself? Breheny's article was bizarre in that first he says he got a letter and then he said more or less that people shouldn't say they get such letter!
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 10, 2018 9:03:45 GMT
Bizarrely I said nothing about a tea cup. I'm just bemused Eamonn mentioned this just even in a throw away comment never mind reaching in for the cliff example. Martin Breheny sums up everything that needs to be said about lettergate. Read it, it might lessen your flabbergasted state. Letters were always there there is nothing that can be done about them except show young players coming in what to expect and how to deal with it. I'm saying nothing more about this. It has got enough oxygen already in print media from a few who took an opportunity to run with it without thinking too much about it first. www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/martin-breheny-highlighting-hate-mail-may-be-playing-into-hands-of-twisted-mentalities-37198690.html You mightn't lose sleep over it but maybe the people receiving them might. Did you ever send a letter to an IC manager or player yourself? No. And there is no point in talking to you anymore about it either.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 18:06:30 GMT
I will ask the question again but this time more coherently. How big a factor is Donie Buckley in who becomes the next manager. I am assuming that Donie won't be the manager and also that the KCB won't just impose him on any new manager. If say your preference is for Peter Keane which is what most people seem to have based on the poll, would you change your mind if Donie was not part of his background team but was part of say Liam Kearns or Diarmuid Murphy background teams. The same question would apply to those who have gone for pat o shea, Liam kearns also as their manager.
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Post by john4 on Aug 10, 2018 18:56:09 GMT
I will ask the question again but this time more coherently. How big a factor is Donie Buckley in who becomes the next manager. I am assuming that Donie won't be the manager and also that the KCB won't just impose him on any new manager. If say your preference is for Peter Keane which is what most people seem to have based on the poll, would you change your mind if Donie was not part of his background team but was part of say Liam Kearns or Diarmuid Murphy background teams. The same question would apply to those who have gone for pat o shea, Liam kearns also as their manager. It could be a very big factor for sure. The lads on terrace talk had this view also. They were of the opinion that the KCB are very keen to attract Donie Buckley. But they also know that Donie may not work with Kerry if the new manager was not of his liking. The above mentioned candidates will all ring him of course but he will have his own preference as to who he would like to work with. So therefore whoever can tell the committee that he has spoken with Donie and got an assurance that he would work with that person as manager stands a great chance of getting the job. That's terrace talk logic anyway and I get it.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 10, 2018 19:43:10 GMT
I will ask the question again but this time more coherently. How big a factor is Donie Buckley in who becomes the next manager. I am assuming that Donie won't be the manager and also that the KCB won't just impose him on any new manager. If say your preference is for Peter Keane which is what most people seem to have based on the poll, would you change your mind if Donie was not part of his background team but was part of say Liam Kearns or Diarmuid Murphy background teams. The same question would apply to those who have gone for pat o shea, Liam kearns also as their manager. It could be a very big factor for sure. The lads on terrace talk had this view also. They were of the opinion that the KCB are very keen to attract Donie Buckley. But they also know that Donie may not work with Kerry if the new manager was not of his liking. The above mentioned candidates will all ring him of course but he will have his own preference as to who he would like to work with. So therefore whoever can tell the committee that he has spoken with Donie and got an assurance that he would work with that person as manager stands a great chance of getting the job. That's terrace talk logic anyway and I get it. Is this not really advocating a joint managership role Donnie Buckley and A another.
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Post by john4 on Aug 10, 2018 19:49:02 GMT
More of a precondition, this is just the opinion of who were discussing this, but I can understand the logic behind the thinking
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 20:02:21 GMT
It could be a very big factor for sure. The lads on terrace talk had this view also. They were of the opinion that the KCB are very keen to attract Donie Buckley. But they also know that Donie may not work with Kerry if the new manager was not of his liking. The above mentioned candidates will all ring him of course but he will have his own preference as to who he would like to work with. So therefore whoever can tell the committee that he has spoken with Donie and got an assurance that he would work with that person as manager stands a great chance of getting the job. That's terrace talk logic anyway and I get it. Is this not really advocating a joint managership role Donnie Buckley and A another. Potentially, the manager is only one part of this, the rest of the background team is arguably even more important.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2018 20:29:02 GMT
Mike Quirke: With Donie Buckley as a selector, Mayo can grasp Sam Maguire Wednesday, September 28, 2016 By Mike Quirke
To most of the casual supporters of Gaelic football in the country, the name Donie Buckley probably means little, if anything.
You’re unlikely to read a two-page spread on the All-Ireland final replay on Saturday morning about the quality of work he has done with Mayo in the past four years, such is his chameleon-like ability to fade into the background and avoid the spotlight.
You won’t find him driving a sponsored car, nor talking about himself in the third person to make himself appear more than he is.
He’s just a football coach, and from my experience, a damn good one.
If Stephen Rochford is the driver of the Mayo locomotive, Donie is the guy standing close by shovelling coal into the open firebox.
In 2011, the Castleisland native Buckley, who now resides in Ennis, took a spin on the big wheel with Kerry and added a freshness that helped get us back to an All-Ireland final after a disappointing quarter-final exit in 2010.
He was after serving as a lieutenant to Mickey Ned O’Sullivan in Limerick for a few years, and had brought about a stark improvement in their performances during that time.
There was a great yarn about when Limerick were preparing to face Kerry and Kieran Donaghy in the Munster championship back in 2010.
Donie took their primary ‘Star’ stopper Stephen Lucey and a few other Limerick defenders off the training pitch and into a local basketball gym to work rebounding a basketball for a night.
He had them ‘boxing out’ — giving them a crash course in how to use their bodies to back into him and eat the space around Donaghy’s legs to eliminate his renowned leaping ability.
I can remember people s*ing at the idea of it when it started doing the rounds down here before the game…
But there weren’t too many laughing as the match wore on and Donaghy could scarcely win a ball against a physical and newly crafty Lucey.
When he joined the Kerry set-up, Donie’s work on the training field was brilliant.
He was very different, he was always trying to think outside the box.
He challenged you to engage in the training session as opposed to just going through the motions.
He was meticulous in is planning and was always bursting with an enthusiasm that players really enjoyed and fed off.
He brought a huge repertoire of training material, full of new twists on old drills and games that kept everybody on their toes.
The brain had to be switched on all the time when Donie was in full swing.
He could stop the session and throw a question at you at any stage to check for understanding of the drill.
And if he caught you out, you’d pay for it and be the butt of the dressing room jokes for the week.
Down in Fitzgerald Stadium, he was battling for rarefied coaching oxygen at the very top of the mountain with Jack O’Connor and his trusted deputy Alan O’Sullivan who continue to form an impressive partnership years later.
Back then, it must have been an uncomfortable marriage for them in a lot of ways, but nothing that was ever made obvious to us players.
They were as professional as any amateurs could be, but with Donie’s addition to the coaching group, he raised the bar.
This definitely forced all of them to lift their games and helped provide an even higher standard of preparation for the team.
After a knee operation that led to a year out in 2012, he eventually joined up with James Horan and Mayo in 2013.
And he’s been there shovelling in the coal ever since.
During that four-year stint (including this year), he’s helped guide Mayo to two finals, and two semi-final replays (losing to eventual winners; Kerry and Dublin in 2014 and 2015, respectively).
Including his 2011 trip to the final with Kerry, that’s three finals and two semi-final replays in his past five years of coaching senior inter-county football.
No All-Ireland wins yet, but it is one hell of a CV.
And watching that first All-Ireland final 10 days ago, the intensity, the tackling, the character and honesty of effort were jumping out at supporters, without them fully appreciating the work it takes to get that performance out of players.
I thought the Mayo performance bore all the hallmarks of a Donie Buckley coached side.
His work on treating tackling technique as a skill in itself was a calling card of his along with doing everything in the session at high-paced match intensity.
He saw it as one of the key elements of the game, something most guys do more than kicking in a game, but yet he felt it was rarely worked on specifically in training.
Back in 2011, Kerry’s half forward dog of war Donnchadh Walsh spoke about the strengths of Kerry’s new coach: “I think Donie’s arrival might well give us an edge because he’s improving our tackling.
“It’s something that goes un-coached an awful lot of the time but he has brought it back to basics — how you tackle, how you position your legs and hands, which hand you go in with.
“We’ve actually learned so much from him that you really enjoy coming to training, enjoy doing the drills as we try and perfect what he’s teaching us.”
When Mayo players met to axe what they felt was their malfunctioning joint management team of Connolly and Holmes late last year, word filtered through the cracks that they were very anxious to keep the services of their Kerry coach.
Donie had kept the show on the road in times of uncertainty and unease and they wanted to make sure he was part of the new ticket.
When Stephen Rochford was putting his crew together he was shrewd enough to recognise the abilities of Donie Buckley, and the esteem with which he was held within that Mayo squad.
Possibly a new manager less confident in his own abilities to guide a group with this pedigree could have felt threatened by the affection with which Buckley was held by the dressing room he was walking into.
But to his credit, he embraced it and has apparently managed the situation well to get the most out of himself, Buckley and Tony McEntee as a coaching team.
I don’t know what Saturday evening will bring for Mayo, but with a man like Donie Buckley still filling the firebox behind the scenes, you’d have to think that their locomotive will reach the station eventually.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2018 20:35:30 GMT
A good manager would recognise an expert and be happy to stand back and let him at it.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 10, 2018 21:32:53 GMT
A good manager would recognise an expert and be happy to stand back and let him at it. Ive no doubt that Donie Buckley is hugely respected and could possibly be huge benefit to Kerry . But it seems here already the incoming manager will be under pressure if Donie isn't part of the ticket, That piece was written in 2016 and the Locomotive didnt reach the station .
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2018 21:37:22 GMT
A good manager would recognise an expert and be happy to stand back and let him at it. Ive no doubt that Donie Buckley is hugely respected and could possibly be huge benefit to Kerry . But it seems here already the incoming manager will be under pressure if Donie isn't part of the ticket, That piece was written in 2016 and the Locomotive didnt reach the station . a come off it blue panther....was that the year the ref didnt give the last minute free to mayo for basticks puck up in the drawn game. why is it only dublin that get last minute decisions to win all irelands....dont get me started....good night
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 10, 2018 21:58:49 GMT
Ive no doubt that Donie Buckley is hugely respected and could possibly be huge benefit to Kerry . But it seems here already the incoming manager will be under pressure if Donie isn't part of the ticket, That piece was written in 2016 and the Locomotive didnt reach the station . a come off it blue panther....was that the year the ref didnt give the last minute free to mayo for basticks puck up in the drawn game. why is it only dublin that get last minute decisions to win all irelands....dont get me started....good night I meant the locomotive didn't reach the station in 2013,2014,2015, 2016,2017, 2018 for Mayo all under his watch, Kildare even beat Mayo this year. Be honest if any other selector had that record you wouldn't want him in Kerry.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 10, 2018 22:05:32 GMT
a come off it blue panther....was that the year the ref didnt give the last minute free to mayo for basticks puck up in the drawn game. why is it only dublin that get last minute decisions to win all irelands....dont get me started....good night I meant the locomotive didn't reach the station in 2013,2014,2015, 2016,2017, 2018 for Mayo all under his watch, Kildare even beat Mayo this year. Be honest if any other selector had that record you wouldn't want him in Kerry. No, don't agree. Mayo were well conditioned, turned up on the big day, tackled well etc. They didn't win the All-Ireland but you could not say it was down to the training. 2016 - dropping Clarke was crazy - down to Rochford 2017 - Vaughan probably single biggest thing that cost them.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2018 22:15:47 GMT
I don't know the dynamic or arrangement that existed in team selection in Mayo.
Based on the EF interview on OTB for instance, if everyone agreed on a decision..it was implemented ................but if selectors disagreed then EF made the call.... so the only time a selector got his wish was when EF happened to agree!
Donie Buckley is highly regarded for things outlined in Quirke's article...which are not particularly the job of selector.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 10, 2018 22:37:20 GMT
I meant the locomotive didn't reach the station in 2013,2014,2015, 2016,2017, 2018 for Mayo all under his watch, Kildare even beat Mayo this year. Be honest if any other selector had that record you wouldn't want him in Kerry. No, don't agree. Mayo were well conditioned, turned up on the big day, tackled well etc. They didn't win the All-Ireland but you could not say it was down to the training. 2016 - dropping Clarke was crazy - down to Rochford 2017 - Vaughan probably single biggest thing that cost them. Dr Ed Coughlan( a man I've had a few conversations with), a guy who worked with Mayo, did an article recenty where he was scathing of Mayo , especially their tactics verses Kerry in drawn game( edit sorry replay) and how they didn't prepare for Donaghy and hung Caferkey out to dry. Buckley is a coach, Selector, Manager. Not a strength and conditioning guy. Don't get me wrong , by all accounts the guy is highly repected by players. But is this the same trait people feel is a flaw in Fitzmaurice .
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 11, 2018 3:15:21 GMT
I don't think most here are talking about Buckley in the sense of him becoming manager. I doubt very much that he had alot to do with decisions like Clarke/Hennelly, nor Donie Vaughan's decision to thump Small in front of the ref when Small was about to get sent off. What he clearly did have alot to do with was helping make the squad incredibly well conditioned, and hard-hitting. Also very cute, and developed (after 2015) an extremely effective transitioning game that allowed Mayo achieve their optimal performances considering their resources - that was the ability to defend and attack consistently well, despite not having the creativity or the depth of quality in the forwards of some other teams, plus not having a set of great backs yet managing to reduce their concession rate in the games that really mattered.
Prior to 2016 they had not got these things right. Their conditioning in 2013 for example was not up to the level of Dublin's, and their tactics were found out as limited. In 2015 they dropped a level and were probably right to get the change of management. Much better in the 2016 final, should have won the first game but for bad luck and Mick is right about the referee decision at the end, as he no doubt has alot of research done into this sort of phenomenon.
2016 finals were their best performances of the era til the 2017 final. Some of that had to be down to Rochford and/or ANOther as Buckley was already there. Some of it was down to their decision to change timings of and take any emphasis away from league and provincial. This has to be surmised as it was otherwise a big co-incidence. In 2014 they blew it in the first semi-final game to some extent, due to tactics at the end, and played a largely naive game in the replay. Alot of that falls at the feet of Horan.
I think Kerry need Pat O'Shea, he would be the steady hand, and would surely handle the hype around Buckley having to be part of the equation better than most. If O'Shea doesn't get it, I think it will show that people just didn't want him back, whatever the reasons that will be given.
Any talk of bringing in Ulster coaching influences or outside managers is absolute nonsense, Kerry have an abundance of what they need from amongst their own allumnate. The only outside person that might have had something to offer Kerry football in some sort of tactical advisory manner imo would be Jim McGuinness, and he's busy. Possibly McEntee or Grimley as well. But it isn't going to happen.
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Post by glengael on Aug 11, 2018 10:51:33 GMT
I think in 2011, when Donie Buckley was involved, a number of Kerry players had their best year ever, I'm thinking of Darran O'Sullivan (then aged 25) (who was shortlisted for POTY) and Bryan Sheehan (26). Both were established on the panel but seemed to be rejuvenated that year. (And Yes, I know the last 10 mins of the season didn't work out). But even so neither of those players ever reached those heights again. Just an observation.
Would Pat O'Shea realistically want the hassle of senior manager again? He can't have been sorry to see the end of it in 2008 when Kerry football was arguably involved in a worst '3 ring circus' than anything E Fitz had to endure. Pat has a good gig with the Crokes, a ready supply of young talent to phase in when Gooch etc decide to move on, a meaningful challenge from across the County Bounds to avenge, what's not to like?
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 11, 2018 11:27:17 GMT
Im Just playing Devils advocate , I'm sure Buckleys experience would help the young guys in Kerry and it could be just what Kerry need. But Buckley , McEntee were selectors for Rochford they didn't even win Connaught in the last 3 years , what part of Mayo approach over the last 6 years was Buckleys area. Could well be a case that without him Mayo mightnt have reached any final . What do guys think is his greatest traits that he can bring to Kerry.
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Post by taibhse on Aug 11, 2018 11:48:45 GMT
With regards to Pat O’Shea – as far as I know, he is a permanent employee of the Munster Council and would require a career break or some such arrangement from them if he was of a mind to take on the job. If my memory serves me correctly, I think that was an issue during his previous tenure. That consent may or may not be forthcoming and it may not suit him to do so in any case.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 13:27:08 GMT
I think he needed permission from the Munster Council last time and the impression I got was that it would very much be a once off. I have no idea what the current situation is.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 11, 2018 14:27:28 GMT
I would be amazed if he is interested.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 11, 2018 15:22:39 GMT
Im Just playing Devils advocate , I'm sure Buckleys experience would help the young guys in Kerry and it could be just what Kerry need. But Buckley , McEntee were selectors for Rochford they didn't even win Connaught in the last 3 years , what part of Mayo approach over the last 6 years was Buckleys area. Could well be a case that without him Mayo mightnt have reached any final . What do guys think is his greatest traits that he can bring to Kerry. The Mike Quirke article explained his strengths well.
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Post by taggert on Aug 11, 2018 17:43:01 GMT
Contrasting Dublin and Kerrys performances against Galway offering further proof why it was time for EF to go.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Aug 12, 2018 1:24:58 GMT
Does anyone else think it's odd that senior inter-county footballers are not trained/drilled in proper tackling techniques?
I'd be a big Donie Buckley fan based on what players have said about him, but what is so unique about his work? Good drills from basketball applied to marking and boxing out the big man should hardly be ground breaking at this stage.
Training the developmental squads at U-16 and minor in proper tackling and positional purpose might be a lot more desirable in the long run. Get Donie on board as consultant to the county board and appoint a squad of coaches working with him (led by Donal Daly) and his message to all squads, with main focus on senior footballers.
His job should get easier year after year, as his lesson plans became the foundation of current teenagers and will have improved somewhat by the time they hit 21/22.
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dart
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Post by dart on Aug 12, 2018 7:18:47 GMT
Tackling and the referees interpretation of same is letting down the sport. We are all familiar with a free being given at one end of the field and play waved on at the other. It is one aspect of the awful compromise rules series which might improve football.
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Post by riverfeale on Aug 12, 2018 10:01:50 GMT
I would like to see Liam Kerins take over a new manager he has served his time over the years with Limerick, Laois, and Tipperary. In his back room team Donie Buckley would be a huge addition along with the services of Declan O Keeffe as goalkeeper coach, Declan has an extensive knowledge of the task at hand he has been on the goalkeeping coaching circuit for a few years now , and also worked with Roscommon A while back with Kevin Mc Stay . Incidentally he and Donie Buckley are both based in Ennis and I could see them working closely together for the betterment of Kerry football. We need a whole new root and branch approach to our set up to mirror Dublin’s back room team with experts in every aspect of a modern successful inter county set up, coaching, strength and conditioning, , dietitian, physiotherapist, medical, media relations, and marketing, etc. Maybe we not only need a manager but a DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL to oversee all these important elements to drive us on and get us back to the top table
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