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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 8, 2018 7:40:07 GMT
I think this is all getting a bit silly now and possibly damaging to our future stability.
Let’s look at the facts: Eamonn Fitzmaurice is a decent man and was well motivated to bring success to the Kingdom. Eamonn Fitzmaurice was a decent manager who unfortunately made a number of questionable decisions at crucial times. Kerry supporters are a passionate bunch who are never behind the door in questioning questionable decisions. They don’t need to be on the team or the management to be entitled to do so. An unspecified number of supporters (probably very few) have gone way outside acceptable behaviour by sending anonymous hate mail to players and management. This is wrong and should be dealt with by directing it to the bin or the Gardaí.
The constant drip feeding of the story fuelled by Eamonn’s most recent interview runs the risk of driving a wedge between the team and ALL supporters which is very wrong. We have always revered our players in Kerry and continue to do so. This also will make things difficult for the new manager. If it really is as bad as that give us the full facts so the culprits can be named and shamed. If not please let it rest.
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Post by taibhse on Aug 8, 2018 7:56:56 GMT
I think it's social media that fuels it. The constituency that pen anonymous letters have been sending letters to politicians in this country for years, before there was any social media. I'd imagine that there are several truckloads over in Kilgarvan.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 8, 2018 9:19:34 GMT
The constituency that pen anonymous letters have been sending letters to politicians in this country for years, before there was any social media. I'd imagine that there are several truckloads over in Kilgarvan. The County Board Chairman said it wasn't social media and take a look at my previous comment here. Sinead Kissane (wan of our own!) also threw in her tuppeny bit the eve of the Monaghan game. This is the same docksy who used the media to badger Eddie O'Sullivan into resigninig on no less than 40 successive instances. I also note another 'wan of our own' in The Independent now cautioning us that we should 'think before we type' - does he know something we don't? The Chairman of the county board specifically stated that social media was not the issue, so were these letters typed? All in all this forum is constructive and members are known to and/or traceable by the county board. Any criticism is generally constructive and new members are vetted. People are entitled to air their views through freedom of speech and I recall a GAA HQ officer saying he engages with social media to pick up new ideas. In the above cases though it is not social media, it is two Kerry journalists writing in national print media, and the badgering material and the misleading statement is there in black and white for all to see. Could the badgering have cost us the Monaghan game? Well it was targeted, timely and in my opinion unadulterated blackguarding of Éammonn and the team, and of course the supporters, i.e. those who didn't write the letters to management and players. So it is our print media journalists who need to 'think before they type', and their editors also need to 'think before they print.' The Kingdom will be back for Sam!
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Aug 8, 2018 9:29:01 GMT
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Post by piggott on Aug 8, 2018 9:54:01 GMT
I don't see an awful lot wrong with what Sinead Kissane wrote 21st July. It accurately summed up the game v Galway. By this stage Eamonn had seemed to have let the criticism get to him. There are a certain element who are always critical.They have been critical of every manager that I can recall. The same guys then become over exuberant when the team has a big win, like Munster Final. It is always the players that do that despite the manager.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 8, 2018 11:38:55 GMT
Link to Éamonn Fitzmaurice's interview on Off The Ball AM below.
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Aug 8, 2018 14:53:56 GMT
KIERAN SHANNON: In all seriousness, lads, who do ye think ye are?In Kerry they can get very serious in telling you how they take their football very serious. Animals and anonymous letters aren’t the half of it. There’ve been anonymous phone calls too, with the one Mikey Sheehy received upon entering a bar, castigating him for missing a penalty in an All-Ireland final two decades earlier, a line routinely trotted out as evidence of just how on the money Páidí was with his assessment of how restless and ruthless the natives can get. A particular favourite of ours is a scene Paul Galvin paints in his book. A couple of weeks after the 2011 All-Ireland final defeat to Dublin, he was in a queue in a hardwood store when an old man in his late 70s approached him. “He grabbed my hand around my wrist and squeezed, looking hard at me,” recounted Galvin. Galvin possessed enough perspective to later reflect how surreal it was, but also enough experience of how in Kerry they can tend to lose perspective when it comes to football. “It shouldn’t be that serious,” he’d conclude about his interaction with the elderly stranger, “but it is, I suppose. It reminded me just how much Kerry people care about football.” Last Sunday night Pat Spillane reiterated just how gravely they care their football there. After initially offering certain compliments and qualifiers about Éamonn Fitzmaurice’s reign, the RTÉ pundit baldly proclaimed: In Kerry if you don’t deliver an All Ireland in a year, it’s a failure. Kerry have now failed for four years to deliver an All-Ireland, so in everyone’s eyes Éamonn has been a failure for the last four years. In Kerry. In Kerry. In Kerry… At which point may we observe and suggest: In Kerry, maybe folks need to get a grip? Thinking that in “everyone’s eyes” Fitzmaurice has been “a failure” the past four years? Or that just because you’re from the same county as Sheehy, a cold, timid soul as yourself has the right to castigate a man who both stumbled and won repeatedly in the arena? Or that even if you’re a kinder, more empathetic animal, that the “pain” of seeing your county narrowly miss out on winning a fifth All-Ireland in seven years somehow equals that of a player who has trained and toiled in the mud, rain, and gym for the previous nine months? In essence, in Kerry, who do you think ye are? Tradition and expectation is one thing, a fine thing. Entitlement is something else, something unsavoury. Even mentioning the letters and phone calls of anonymous animals feeds and legitimises that entitlement, that they’re all just a measure of “how much Kerry people care about football”. Anonymous and hateful correspondence is not exclusive to Kerry players and management — as extreme as the Sheehy example is. But more eye-raising than the hate mail Fitzmaurice received from the more lunatic fringe of the Kerry support was just how critical and ungrateful a sizeable contingent of the more moderate, mainstream Kerry football public became of his tenure. Take their aristocratic counterparts in hurling, Kilkenny. There was no shame or outrage last year when they lost to Wexford and Waterford, exiting the championship before it had even reached the All-Ireland quarter-final stage. Likewise there was no disgrace or outcry this year upon failing to reach an All-Ireland semi-final for a second consecutive season. There was an appreciation that the great team was no more, that a league title and a Leinster final appearance was no bad return for a side in transition. In Kerry, no such understanding was pervasive. Winning a Munster title by a record margin — beating the best Clare team since ’92 by 22 points and then a Cork team in Cork by 17 — with seven rookies on board was an astonishing achievement. However, it soon became a stick to beat Fitzmaurice with rather than a shield from any brickbats. Rather than wondering how he could win so convincingly with so many kids, the question became how could he not reach an All-Ireland semi-final with such stellar young talents? The answer, of course, is the Galway game. Darragh Ó Sé, in his column, attributed that underperformance to attitude more than tactics. What he overlooked was how the tactics dictated the side’s attitude. In Munster, Kerry were the aggressors, the attackers, totally in tune and familiar with a game plan Fitzmaurice had drilled brilliantly into the side on the training ground; no team or manager better utilised the gap — in Kerry’s case, a 10-week one — between league and championship this summer. But then, spooked by a league game in March well before he had time to install his Munster championship game plan, he changed horses midstream. Instead of being the initiators, Kerry became the reactors, going with a double-sweeper system with which the players weren’t familiar. Not only could you hear the players shout for the ball in an eerily quiet and empty Croke Park that day, you could nearly hear the Kerry players thinking. Where am I supposed to be again? A tentativeness, a hesitancy — a fear — came into their play. It was a considerable miscalculation by Fitzmaurice, all the more so for bearing too many resemblances to the loss to Mayo the previous August that ended and marred an otherwise excellent 2017 season. After that, he and Kerry were scrambling. It was hardly a sacking or resignation matter though. For all the mistakes he made, Fitzmaurice got a lot more right, more than most Kerry supporters tend to remember. It has never been mentioned in many of the more reasonable plaudits that have come his way but probably his finest achievement is that he made Dublin, and not Cork, the measure of where Kerry stood in the scheme of things; on his beat he helped make Cork an absolute irrelevance. At the start of his tenure that would have been inconceivable. Hard as it is to believe or recall now, at the start of 2013 Cork were still viewed as the frontrunners to win Sam, not just Munster, with a fourth consecutive league title a prospect that year as well as a string of provincial U21 champion sides to replenish the side. While Cork were undoubtedly the primary architects of their own downfall, the example of Fitzmaurice illustrates just how badly they got it wrong and how well he got it right. In Cork, a manager who had been asked at his job interview what he planned to do “with all the deadwood” duly gave the answer that was sought; meanwhile, Fitzmaurice squeezed absolutely every last drop out of everyone from Declan to O’Mahony, Marc, Donaghy, Donncha, and Darran. In recent days, he’s been accused of being “too loyal”. Better playing Killian Young the odd Super 8 game too many than prematurely disposing of one man’s deadwood but another man’s champion class. For sure he enjoyed an element of fortune in winning the 2014 All-Ireland; had Shane Enright received a second card, as he should have, in the passage of play leading to Cillian O’Connor putting Mayo into an early seven-point lead in Limerick, Sam would not have resided in the Kingdom that winter. They say luck is when opportunity meets preparation. Even with 15 men instead of 14, it was some achievement to come back against Mayo that day. And to outsmart Jim McGuinness in the final, as much as Jim overcooked that one. And the way Fitzmaurice deployed the masterful Declan O’Sullivan and the unstoppable James O’Donoghue in the annihilation of Cork in the last game in the old Páirc Uí Chaoimh, a game, we all forget, that Cork entered as favourites. True, they didn’t beat Dublin that year, or any other summer. But they did beat them in a league final, and pushed them all the way in 2013 and 2016 in classic All Ireland semi-finals. Forget for a moment how good Fitzmaurice was for Kerry; he was great for football. The games his team, the best Dublin team ever, and arguably the best Mayo team ever served up against one another from 2013 to 2017 compare favourably to anything football — or indeed any hurling triumvirate — has ever served up over a five-year period. A considerable portion of the Kerry public who wanted change probably don’t even know where Fitzmaurice got it wrong and now what needs to be put right. There’ll invariably be calls for more former players with limited coaching experience to be part of the new backroom team. If anything, that was one of Fitzmaurice’s failings: During his time he would have had at least one selector too many living off what they did as a player than what they could contribute in the coaching sphere. And in a way, that’s understandable; they’d have been reared on the tradition of everyone from Eddie Tatler to Donie Sheahan to Johnny Culloty being a good man to see a switch or have a word in the ear of a Kerry coach as to who’s moving well and who isn’t. Football has moved on since. Dublin certainly have. If a player isn’t going well, you don’t make a judgment on him, you make an intervention, beyond what playing time he gets. You improve him, coach him. Improve him and everyone and you improve everything. But first you have to improve yourself. You may have been a better player than Mick Deegan or Jason Sherlock but are you a better coach or mentor? And if not, then why are you or Kerry entitled to win an All-Ireland ahead of them? Even in Kerry, All-Irelands are earned. Fitzmaurice earned the one he won on his beat and the respect of anyone who truly “cares about football”.
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Post by southward on Aug 8, 2018 15:18:38 GMT
KIERAN SHANNON: In all seriousness, lads, who do ye think ye are?In Kerry they can get very serious in telling you how they take their football very serious. Animals and anonymous letters aren’t the half of it. There’ve been anonymous phone calls too, with the one Mikey Sheehy received upon entering a bar, castigating him for missing a penalty in an All-Ireland final two decades earlier, a line routinely trotted out as evidence of just how on the money Páidí was with his assessment of how restless and ruthless the natives can get. A particular favourite of ours is a scene Paul Galvin paints in his book. A couple of weeks after the 2011 All-Ireland final defeat to Dublin, he was in a queue in a hardwood store when an old man in his late 70s approached him. “He grabbed my hand around my wrist and squeezed, looking hard at me,” recounted Galvin. Galvin possessed enough perspective to later reflect how surreal it was, but also enough experience of how in Kerry they can tend to lose perspective when it comes to football. “It shouldn’t be that serious,” he’d conclude about his interaction with the elderly stranger, “but it is, I suppose. It reminded me just how much Kerry people care about football.” Last Sunday night Pat Spillane reiterated just how gravely they care their football there. After initially offering certain compliments and qualifiers about Éamonn Fitzmaurice’s reign, the RTÉ pundit baldly proclaimed: In Kerry if you don’t deliver an All Ireland in a year, it’s a failure. Kerry have now failed for four years to deliver an All-Ireland, so in everyone’s eyes Éamonn has been a failure for the last four years. In Kerry. In Kerry. In Kerry… At which point may we observe and suggest: In Kerry, maybe folks need to get a grip? Thinking that in “everyone’s eyes” Fitzmaurice has been “a failure” the past four years? Or that just because you’re from the same county as Sheehy, a cold, timid soul as yourself has the right to castigate a man who both stumbled and won repeatedly in the arena? Or that even if you’re a kinder, more empathetic animal, that the “pain” of seeing your county narrowly miss out on winning a fifth All-Ireland in seven years somehow equals that of a player who has trained and toiled in the mud, rain, and gym for the previous nine months? In essence, in Kerry, who do you think ye are? Tradition and expectation is one thing, a fine thing. Entitlement is something else, something unsavoury. Even mentioning the letters and phone calls of anonymous animals feeds and legitimises that entitlement, that they’re all just a measure of “how much Kerry people care about football”. Anonymous and hateful correspondence is not exclusive to Kerry players and management — as extreme as the Sheehy example is. But more eye-raising than the hate mail Fitzmaurice received from the more lunatic fringe of the Kerry support was just how critical and ungrateful a sizeable contingent of the more moderate, mainstream Kerry football public became of his tenure. Take their aristocratic counterparts in hurling, Kilkenny. There was no shame or outrage last year when they lost to Wexford and Waterford, exiting the championship before it had even reached the All-Ireland quarter-final stage. Likewise there was no disgrace or outcry this year upon failing to reach an All-Ireland semi-final for a second consecutive season. There was an appreciation that the great team was no more, that a league title and a Leinster final appearance was no bad return for a side in transition. In Kerry, no such understanding was pervasive. Winning a Munster title by a record margin — beating the best Clare team since ’92 by 22 points and then a Cork team in Cork by 17 — with seven rookies on board was an astonishing achievement. However, it soon became a stick to beat Fitzmaurice with rather than a shield from any brickbats. Rather than wondering how he could win so convincingly with so many kids, the question became how could he not reach an All-Ireland semi-final with such stellar young talents? The answer, of course, is the Galway game. Darragh Ó Sé, in his column, attributed that underperformance to attitude more than tactics. What he overlooked was how the tactics dictated the side’s attitude. In Munster, Kerry were the aggressors, the attackers, totally in tune and familiar with a game plan Fitzmaurice had drilled brilliantly into the side on the training ground; no team or manager better utilised the gap — in Kerry’s case, a 10-week one — between league and championship this summer. But then, spooked by a league game in March well before he had time to install his Munster championship game plan, he changed horses midstream. Instead of being the initiators, Kerry became the reactors, going with a double-sweeper system with which the players weren’t familiar. Not only could you hear the players shout for the ball in an eerily quiet and empty Croke Park that day, you could nearly hear the Kerry players thinking. Where am I supposed to be again? A tentativeness, a hesitancy — a fear — came into their play. It was a considerable miscalculation by Fitzmaurice, all the more so for bearing too many resemblances to the loss to Mayo the previous August that ended and marred an otherwise excellent 2017 season. After that, he and Kerry were scrambling. It was hardly a sacking or resignation matter though. For all the mistakes he made, Fitzmaurice got a lot more right, more than most Kerry supporters tend to remember. It has never been mentioned in many of the more reasonable plaudits that have come his way but probably his finest achievement is that he made Dublin, and not Cork, the measure of where Kerry stood in the scheme of things; on his beat he helped make Cork an absolute irrelevance. At the start of his tenure that would have been inconceivable. Hard as it is to believe or recall now, at the start of 2013 Cork were still viewed as the frontrunners to win Sam, not just Munster, with a fourth consecutive league title a prospect that year as well as a string of provincial U21 champion sides to replenish the side. While Cork were undoubtedly the primary architects of their own downfall, the example of Fitzmaurice illustrates just how badly they got it wrong and how well he got it right. In Cork, a manager who had been asked at his job interview what he planned to do “with all the deadwood” duly gave the answer that was sought; meanwhile, Fitzmaurice squeezed absolutely every last drop out of everyone from Declan to O’Mahony, Marc, Donaghy, Donncha, and Darran. In recent days, he’s been accused of being “too loyal”. Better playing Killian Young the odd Super 8 game too many than prematurely disposing of one man’s deadwood but another man’s champion class. For sure he enjoyed an element of fortune in winning the 2014 All-Ireland; had Shane Enright received a second card, as he should have, in the passage of play leading to Cillian O’Connor putting Mayo into an early seven-point lead in Limerick, Sam would not have resided in the Kingdom that winter. They say luck is when opportunity meets preparation. Even with 15 men instead of 14, it was some achievement to come back against Mayo that day. And to outsmart Jim McGuinness in the final, as much as Jim overcooked that one. And the way Fitzmaurice deployed the masterful Declan O’Sullivan and the unstoppable James O’Donoghue in the annihilation of Cork in the last game in the old Páirc Uí Chaoimh, a game, we all forget, that Cork entered as favourites. True, they didn’t beat Dublin that year, or any other summer. But they did beat them in a league final, and pushed them all the way in 2013 and 2016 in classic All Ireland semi-finals. Forget for a moment how good Fitzmaurice was for Kerry; he was great for football. The games his team, the best Dublin team ever, and arguably the best Mayo team ever served up against one another from 2013 to 2017 compare favourably to anything football — or indeed any hurling triumvirate — has ever served up over a five-year period. A considerable portion of the Kerry public who wanted change probably don’t even know where Fitzmaurice got it wrong and now what needs to be put right. There’ll invariably be calls for more former players with limited coaching experience to be part of the new backroom team. If anything, that was one of Fitzmaurice’s failings: During his time he would have had at least one selector too many living off what they did as a player than what they could contribute in the coaching sphere. And in a way, that’s understandable; they’d have been reared on the tradition of everyone from Eddie Tatler to Donie Sheahan to Johnny Culloty being a good man to see a switch or have a word in the ear of a Kerry coach as to who’s moving well and who isn’t. Football has moved on since. Dublin certainly have. If a player isn’t going well, you don’t make a judgment on him, you make an intervention, beyond what playing time he gets. You improve him, coach him. Improve him and everyone and you improve everything. But first you have to improve yourself. You may have been a better player than Mick Deegan or Jason Sherlock but are you a better coach or mentor? And if not, then why are you or Kerry entitled to win an All-Ireland ahead of them? Even in Kerry, All-Irelands are earned. Fitzmaurice earned the one he won on his beat and the respect of anyone who truly “cares about football”. A rather spiteful piece promoting this notion of Kerry vs the Kerry supporters.
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keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Aug 8, 2018 15:39:01 GMT
Spiteful is the word that comes to mind alright.
What an overblown load of toss the aftermath of this fairly ordinary changing of the guard has been.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 8, 2018 15:40:51 GMT
There are a lot of holes in that piece.
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Post by southward on Aug 8, 2018 16:10:42 GMT
I have to say that I'm less than impressed with Fitzy's parting gift to the Kerry public here. This is being built up into a grossly unfair characterisation of Kerry fans that will be used against us for years.
Just watched the OTB interview a little while ago. On the subject of the abusive stuff, Eamonn says that he wasn't all that bothered by it and that much of it was harmless. Seemed to be laughing about it, in fact. Re the letter to a Kerry player, he says that, while he regards it as going too far (which of course it is), the player in question wasn't bothered at all.
He also says, unless I'm mistaken, that he had planned from well back to leave at the end of the season one way or another.
Now this is all a far cry from the impression received, rightly or wrongly, on Saturday night/Sunday morning that Eamonn was leaving to protect the players from negativity. This is what has now led to the media/social media bashing of Kerry supporters. As someone who, I hope, has always tried to be supportive of whichever player or manager is in possession, I'm getting a pain in my h*le from it at this stage. Going out of the championship was bad enough, we don't deserve this too.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 8, 2018 16:13:47 GMT
I have to say that I'm less than impressed with Fitzy's parting gift to the Kerry public here. This is being built up into a grossly unfair characterisation of Kerry fans that will be used against us for years. Just watched the OTB interview a little while ago. On the subject of the abusive stuff, Eamonn says that he wasn't all that bothered by it and that much of it was harmless. Seemed to be laughing about it, in fact. Re the letter to a Kerry player, he says that, while he regards it as going too far (which of course it is), the player in question wasn't bothered at all. He also says, unless I'm mistaken, that he had planned from well back to leave at the end of the season one way or another. Now this is all a far cry from the impression received, rightly or wrongly, on Saturday night/Sunday morning that Eamonn was leaving to protect the players from negativity. This is what has now led to the media/social media bashing of Kerry supporters. As someone who, I hope, has always tried to be supportive of whichever player or manager is in possession, I'm getting a pain in my h*le from it at this stage. Going out of the championship was bad enough, we don't deserve this too. well said. He is trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Too late.
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Post by bedlamite on Aug 8, 2018 16:36:36 GMT
Being demanding is not a bad thing. The Kerry supporters are demanding. Eamon himself will have demanded standards from his players. Without standards you won't achieve. No apologies necessary from balanced constructive criticism looking for high standards to be met.
Loonies who are either mad, bad or ignorant or all three combined should not be taken seriously, and yet when they become aggressive or harassing, the authorities should be called. Eamon or the player who got the letter telling him to 'jump off a cliff'' should have called the guards in that instant. The anonymous texter referred to by Eamon in the early part of the interview should have been referred to the Gardai. The hospitals and prisons are full of the mad and the bad, and more again are still out walking around.
The journalists and media who are trying to tarnish Kerry supporters as all being headcases, with irrational demands and expectations are well out of order. It would serve everybody well if they simply condemned the very small portion of bad eggs, and simply take it as said that the most Kerry supporters/followers are perfectly sane and rational, and its well within their expectations to feel Kerry have a chance of winning the All Ireland every year.
We have won 2 a decade on average, and been in 4 finals per decade, and still have good footballers to this very day, and a good brain bank of football knowledge and experience to call upon.
We should not get hung up about it, and ignore the journalists who are trying to pedal this angle of Kerry supporters being Animals.
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Post by southward on Aug 8, 2018 17:15:32 GMT
Being demanding is not a bad thing. The Kerry supporters are demanding. Eamon himself will have demanded standards from his players. Without standards you won't achieve. No apologies necessary from balanced constructive criticism looking for high standards to be met. Loonies who are either mad, bad or ignorant or all three combined should not be taken seriously, and yet when they become aggressive or harassing, the authorities should be called. Eamon or the player who got the letter telling him to 'jump off a cliff'' should have called the guards in that instant. The anonymous texter referred to by Eamon in the early part of the interview should have been referred to the Gardai. The hospitals and prisons are full of the mad and the bad, and more again are still out walking around. The journalists and media who are trying to tarnish Kerry supporters as all being headcases, with irrational demands and expectations are well out of order. It would serve everybody well if they simply condemned the very small portion of bad eggs, and simply take it as said that the most Kerry supporters/followers are perfectly sane and rational, and its well within their expectations to feel Kerry have a chance of winning the All Ireland every year. We have won 2 a decade on average, and been in 4 finals per decade, and still have good footballers to this very day, and a good brain bank of football knowledge and experience to call upon. We should not get hung up about it, and ignore the journalists who are trying to pedal this angle of Kerry supporters being Animals. Great post. And of course attempting to denigrate Kerry football and Kerry folk is an age-old pastime in this country. It's just very disappointing that, on this occasion, the ammunition has come from within our most scared institution. All the more so as there seems to be a whiff of fake news about it all. Leaves a bit of a sour taste, which is unfortunate in terms of Eamonn's legacy and, I suggest, does nothing to improve relations between team and fans.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 8, 2018 17:33:13 GMT
Being demanding is not a bad thing. The Kerry supporters are demanding. Eamon himself will have demanded standards from his players. Without standards you won't achieve. No apologies necessary from balanced constructive criticism looking for high standards to be met. Loonies who are either mad, bad or ignorant or all three combined should not be taken seriously, and yet when they become aggressive or harassing, the authorities should be called. Eamon or the player who got the letter telling him to 'jump off a cliff'' should have called the guards in that instant. The anonymous texter referred to by Eamon in the early part of the interview should have been referred to the Gardai. The hospitals and prisons are full of the mad and the bad, and more again are still out walking around. The journalists and media who are trying to tarnish Kerry supporters as all being headcases, with irrational demands and expectations are well out of order. It would serve everybody well if they simply condemned the very small portion of bad eggs, and simply take it as said that the most Kerry supporters/followers are perfectly sane and rational, and its well within their expectations to feel Kerry have a chance of winning the All Ireland every year. We have won 2 a decade on average, and been in 4 finals per decade, and still have good footballers to this very day, and a good brain bank of football knowledge and experience to call upon. We should not get hung up about it, and ignore the journalists who are trying to pedal this angle of Kerry supporters being Animals. Great post. And of course attempting to denigrate Kerry football and Kerry folk is an age-old pastime in this country. It's just very disappointing that, on this occasion, the ammunition has come from within our most scared institution. All the more so as there seems to be a whiff of fake news about it all. Leaves a bit of a sour taste, which is unfortunate in terms of Eamonn's legacy and, I suggest, does nothing to improve relations between team and fans. "Clumsy Tony" is a Kerryman too.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 8, 2018 17:50:11 GMT
I hope we're not going all Donald Trump with "Clumsy Tony", and the #FakeNews Examiner? 😂😂😂
Let us not go from animals to complete "deplorables"!
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Post by classicfc on Aug 8, 2018 19:11:44 GMT
There are alot of contributors here who seem to be extremely offended by Fitzmaurice speaking about a minority who completely overstepped the mark by directing personal abuse at the management and some of the players. He did not castigate all Kerry supporters but differentiated between a follower and a supporter.There are thousands of genuine GAA people in the county who do their best to contribute in a positive way towards the support of their county. They are entitled to discuss their teams fortunes in both a positive and critical light. But we have a history in this county of going over the top in our criticism when quite often nothing is ever good enough. Won an All Ireland in 2014 and for some the style of play was not the Kerry way. Won an All Ireland in 97 sure that was a handy one they only beat Clare, Cavan and Mayo.In the history of Kerry football there are far more discussions about All Ireland's lost than those that were won. There are peaks and troughs in every great sporting dynasty but some people in this county don't seem to want to accept that. In the GAA you cannot go out and buy in who you need to keep the good times rolling, a la Real Madrid. There are good young players coming through but they have to be given time under the new management to find their way.Some contributors here seem slighted by what has emerged in the past few days. But if you didn't pen those vitriolic letters why are you taken aback? He obviously was not making reference to you. I tend to agree with a good degree of what Kieran Shannon had to say in the Examiner today, are we in fact ever satisfied?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 8, 2018 19:20:36 GMT
It's ridiculous to claim that we haven't an "animals" element. Do we forget 2006 all of a sudden?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 8, 2018 19:47:31 GMT
It's ridiculous to claim that we haven't an "animals" element. Do we forget 2006 all of a sudden? Did someone made such a ridiculous claim?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 8, 2018 19:50:40 GMT
It's ridiculous to claim that we haven't an "animals" element. Do we forget 2006 all of a sudden? Did someone made such a ridiculous claim? When I say animals element I mean enough to audibly boo our young captain. I don't mean the sick puppy brigade.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Aug 8, 2018 19:50:51 GMT
To be honest folks i must say In ‘15 and recently against Galway my eyes were looking towards the roof of the hogan stand and I was praying in exasperation that he’d leave Donaghy off his lead but I think anyone who sends anonymous letters full of abuse to a man who has given so muck of his time (in fact his life) to his county team is either a spacer or the more probable reality is that they are up to their bollix in debt as a result of hemorrhaging their finances into the betting apps.
Not sure who will take over from Eamon but the first name in the managment ticket will have to be Buckley. He is possibly the best in the business, look at the way mayo defend and tackle. This aspect of their game has enabled them to challenge for the top spot with very limited forward options and in the modern era that’s impressive. Buckley is a man that this county needs right now so we can develop a defensive strategy to plug some holes in the strainer.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 8, 2018 20:31:41 GMT
Kerry people are demanding and I had no huge issue with Paidi's animals comment (though clearly not a clever statement).
The Declan O'Sullivan treatment in 2006 was shocking but I would argue atypical. The rise of Tyrone and Armagh did some funny things to the Kerry psyche.
While Eamonn has an All-Ireland under his belt and a longer tenure, I see some parallels with Ogie Moran's spell in charge. Kerry should have beaten Cork in 1994, but lost. Management were deemed to have made some errors, but it looked like Kerry were on the way up after losing to Clare in 1992 and being very poor v Cork in 1993 (though only losing by 3 points).
There was naturally expectation in 1995 that Kerry would beat Cork. Kerry lost, again narrowly. On this occasion though Cork were the better team. Ogie was excoriated for picking Dara Ó Cinnéide at wing-back (though he had played there at minor); dropping his full-back and making several changes in defence since the previous game, and taking far too long to make switches.
Pat Spillane was severely critical. Paddy Bawn Brosnan had died on the weekend of the game, and the nastiest part of the chatter among people was that the players of 1995 were much lesser men.
Why am I going over all this? Because Paidi Ó Sé took over, and as he said it, put some of the spirituality back into Kerry football. Success followed, and was signalled by underage wins.
He was definitely the right man at that particular time. Hopefully the right man can be found this time.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 8, 2018 20:58:20 GMT
I keep on having to point this out but the constant chatter about the letters is a pile of disingenuous horse manure- it’s completely wrong that it happened but it’s been pushed to the detriment of any credible analysis of Fitzmaurice’s reign.
As I said previously, he had to go:
Jack sherwood in 2013 Galvin in the 2015 final No settled keeper No kickout strategy No defensive set up No clear game plan Mayo semi final last year- debutant sweeper Taking off Geaney in 2016 The league in 2018 Taking off players in the first half or at half time regularly Players starting/getting a run one day and not being on the panel the next The first 2 super 8’s games this year followed by the first half last Saturday might well be the worst ever run of football put together by a Kerry coach. Young coming back from nowhere to be centre back, gettin cleaned and sent off against Galway but being straight back in Enright being left wide open last year- Andy Moran owes his player of the year to our nativity McManus being marked one on one this year by a lad who is very obviously not a man marker- Griffin then playing well once he moved out that field yet bring dropped again.
The above reasons (and there’s prob more) are why he is gone. He had to go for footballing reasons but this is simply getting lost in the fog of the letters discussion- it’s almost like a collection of his former teammates and former (and supposedly future) employers in the Examiner don’t want a bad word said against his management
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 8, 2018 21:19:29 GMT
*naivety and not nativity
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Post by john4 on Aug 8, 2018 21:33:37 GMT
The one that baffled me most about last year was what was the point in starting Donnacha Walsh in every single league match, he finished most of them as well, he got a hamstring injury then later in the year and was out for the Mayo games. He was 33 last year, he had nothing to prove at that point. He should have been rested in the spring and fresh for the summer
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Post by donegalman on Aug 9, 2018 8:14:15 GMT
I wanted to start a thread wishing Eamon well on HoganStand but they didn't fly the thread, possibly in case it went out of control with spite comments. I cant think of any other reason.
Anyway, I listened to his interview on newstalk yesterday evening and was struck by what a decent, straight guy he is. Always liked listening to his interviews. Even after he beat us in 2014, he came across as a very humble man in victory. I don't think he got enough credit for this win either as he beat a mayo team at their peak and the 2012 all Ireland champions one after the other. Not to mention all the other big games he was involved in. 2013, 2016 games v Dublin. (2015 match was disappointing but still managed to stay within a couple of scores of Dublin). 2014 replay and 1st game v mayo were classic games. The monaghan match this year was also amazing championship football. So you can see what he contributed to the championship. Plus the league victory v Dublin last year. I understand how difficult it is for a Kerry manager to keep the followers down there happy, but I do think that he needs to be congratulated for many reasons. He did blood in a few new lads this year for instance. I hope he has a good time following the kerry team now and his position as principal in his school will suit him and the school perfectly.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 9, 2018 8:49:37 GMT
I wanted to start a thread wishing Eamon well on HoganStand but they didn't fly the thread, possibly in case it went out of control with spite comments. I cant think of any other reason. Anyway, I listened to his interview on newstalk yesterday evening and was struck by what a decent, straight guy he is. Always liked listening to his interviews. Even after he beat us in 2014, he came across as a very humble man in victory. I don't think he got enough credit for this win either as he beat a mayo team at their peak and the 2012 all Ireland champions one after the other. Not to mention all the other big games he was involved in. 2013, 2016 games v Dublin. (2015 match was disappointing but still managed to stay within a couple of scores of Dublin). 2014 replay and 1st game v mayo were classic games. The monaghan match this year was also amazing championship football. So you can see what he contributed to the championship. Plus the league victory v Dublin last year. I understand how difficult it is for a Kerry manager to keep the followers down there happy, but I do think that he needs to be congratulated for many reasons. He did blood in a few new lads this year for instance. I hope he has a good time following the kerry team now and his position as principal in his school will suit him and the school perfectly. Hoganstand is terrible. Nice words after that.
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Post by glengael on Aug 9, 2018 10:01:18 GMT
Who do you think you are indeed? GAA fans under the spotlight
The hit BBC series has taken a new approach in its upcoming series signalling a switch away from focusing on genealogy towards social anthropology. In a brave departure from its successful formula the new series, rather than following the bloodlines of well-known personalities and uncovering their links to Royalty, wars and historic events, will instead attempt to solve intriguing mysteries about entire civilisations and cultures. A top team of the researchers and broadcasters have been quietly working on a new angle that’s sure to garner a worldwide audience.
We can exclusively reveal details of the first episode which will be of huge interest to Irish viewers. With fortunate timing in the wake of Fitzgate, the hour long special is devoted to answering a question that’s been to fore on talk shows, online forums, even in old style print newspapers in Ireland this week- Just Who do Kerry GAA supporters think they are?
Extensive research has revealed some characteristics of these elusive creatures and promise to help unsuspecting members of the public cope properly, should they encounter large groups of these ‘supporters’ as they journey along the much vaunted Wild Atlantic Way or in other haunts further afield, such as London’s Cricklewood, Perth (Australia)and Queens (NY). We can exclusively reveal how researchers have identified the following as central to the true identity of the Kerry GAA supporters:
1. The firm belief they are the only tribe entitled to win anything ever.
2. A sense of entitlement that includes the right never to be criticised about any aspect of their behaviour/appearance/speaking style or propensity to or failure to travel to any point beyond Farranfore. The number of All Ireland medals held by the party offering any such criticism, however well intentioned, appears to offer no protection in this case. They are savaged regardless.
3. Approval of a unique social structure where a Fella with a specified number of All Ireland medals is entitled to look down on a Fella with fewer medals and write accordingly in his newspaper column. This may be described in Dublin 3 terms as ‘Calling out the lack of leadership from the players while not flaking the manager’ but is never described as such by Fella writing the piece.
4. They possess an endless supply of Belvedere Bond writing paper to ensure constant outpourings of creatively written masterpieces offering advice to Players/Managers/ ‘Failed Intercounty Players From Other Counties Making a Living from the Media’ alike. (Bulk buying of Belvedere Bond has been noted across some parts of the county recently although it is not clear if this is linked to Brexit or the recent takeover of the Examiner by the Irish Times).
5. They display great antipathy to anyone deemed to be ‘Still Dining out on their One All Ireland Medal’. This includes members of their own tribe.
6. A reluctance to apply for high profile positions of responsibility so as to fulfil the Old Testament prophecy ‘Sure no-one with any sense wanted that job that time’. This facilitates criticism of anyone foolish enough to make such an application.
7. Detest the Healy-Raes for failing to engineer the odd landslide every few years, thus closing the road over the County Bounds and stopping good footballers going to the University above in Cork and getting notions/white boots/neon boots/One Sigerson Cup medal.
8. Secretly harbour reservations about the fortitude of That Crowd Above in North Kerry. This is typically manifest in statements such as ‘What do they know about football above there, sure they’re only good at playing middling hurling’ or ‘they’re grand for the plays and poetry and short stories and the like but not much good for anything else’ and ‘sure you’d want that girl of the Hannons that’s above on Primetime to explain that so-called defensive strategy- tis more complicated than the Charlton Tribunal- pure codology altogether’. That Crowd Back in West Kerry are merely ‘mad’.
9. They have not been to Puck Fair or the Rose of Tralee believing ‘they are just full of tourists and Journalists Down from Dublin to sneer and write ‘ironic ‘articles and complain how they didn’t get to Electric Picnic this year. Oh and lots of Junior Footballers from Up the Country looking for wives that might one day win the Best Dressed Lady at Punchestown and get their photos in the Farmers Journal because that’s the nearest to winning any National title they will ever get’.
10. They make statements such as ‘ Social media ? Forums? How could we be on them things? Sure we have no broadband at all, at all here. I had to pay for the Youngest Daughter to pass the Driving Test and she drives me to that high part of the road at Barna Gap above in the County Limerick every evening so that we can check who’s dead on RIP.IE. You can’t trust the Kerry Radio to have all the arrangements’.
A neutral expert panel, believed to include Kevin McStay, Minister Shane Ross, Charlie Redmond, Brian McGuigan and renowned academic Dr Mary Beard, will review the findings and in a unique interactive element, viewers will be encouraged to share their experiences of encountering this savage and potentially dangerous race of people. Series Producer nigel (smallcase as an artistic statement) smithersfield comments ‘It’s been fantastic, uncovering the world of this secret race, the Kerry GAA supporter. Gosh we all thought we knew the latte loving Irish, with their high tech, low tax jobs and informed decisions to emigrate for artistic purposes and their lovely unpronounceable names. But this takes it to a new level altogether. It’s like suddenly you can see them everywhere, all the people called O’Sullivan whose fathers and grandfathers worked for Murphys and who went to back South Kerry, even before Star Wars was filmed there.
My favourite shoot was the Long Night in the Glebe Car Park. Apparently it should have been the Night of the Homecoming but instead people just came and silently cried and lit candles as they stared at their photos of Tom Crean, Tom Sullivan (Rathmore) and Seamus Moynihan. It was an unbelievable spiritual experience’
‘Who do you think you are indeed?’ begins on BBC One at 9pm this Sunday and is repeated on RTE One the following night in the hope that some of the participants may be able to hold the aerial out the window long enough to watch the programme.
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Post by southward on Aug 9, 2018 11:37:31 GMT
Let's see what we have ..
Healy Raes Rose of Tralee Farmers looking for wives All-Ireland Anthropological analogies
Wow, that's some original stuff there. All the author has left to do is invent the Kerryman joke and they'll be a shoo-in for a Pultizer.
Sneer on, journos. Clifford & Co be blowing the froth off your lattes soon enough.
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Post by john4 on Aug 9, 2018 12:27:48 GMT
What paper was that in?
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