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Post by dc84 on Jul 25, 2018 20:03:17 GMT
Just saying what ball skills does mcauley have ? Id say he kicked the ball less than 10 times when he won "footballer" of the year but is he effective yes! Stefan has a lot more ability than him i think. Anyways foley has been really good this year and will only get better he looks at this early stage like most natural fb we have had in years.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Jul 25, 2018 20:16:51 GMT
I’ve seen Shane Ryan playing quiet a bit over the past 6 months & he’s a handful for anyone. I definitely think they should have another look at him in an outfield position. Kieran Murphy has probably been injury free for the longest time since he was a minor & it’s showing.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Jul 25, 2018 20:30:03 GMT
So which position do people think when / if Okunbor gets his chance he would serve Kerry better at, Midfield or Full Back?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 25, 2018 20:38:27 GMT
The no evidence hype train runs out of control on here at times. Okunbor was a decent under 20s player who got badly exposed at times against Kildare- he has potential but is nowhere near intercounty level and wont be for a number of years (if ever).
Talk of K Murphy on here- was always impressed with him as an underage player but injuries have blighted him- Diarmuid O Connor from Na Gaeil is a decent bit better than both and much more likely to make the step up.
I've mentioned him on here before but I really like the look of David Shaw and also Tony Brosnan from Crokes could go close in the next year
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Jul 25, 2018 21:24:19 GMT
The no evidence hype train runs out of control on here at times. Okunbor was a decent under 20s player who got badly exposed at times against Kildare- he has potential but is nowhere near intercounty level and wont be for a number of years (if ever). Talk of K Murphy on here- was always impressed with him as an underage player but injuries have blighted him- Diarmuid O Connor from Na Gaeil is a decent bit better than both and much more likely to make the step up. I've mentioned him on here before but I really like the look of David Shaw and also Tony Brosnan from Crokes could go close in the next year I thought Okunbor did relatively well against Kildare. You say suggesting Okunbor is hopping on "the no evidence hype train" but then suggest 2 players who didn't play as well as Okunbor for the u20s ( I think O'Connor is a very promising player but definetly needs a year or 2 of bulking up while I don't think Shaw is of intercounty standard ). Though I agree regarding Tony Brosnan. He and Killian Spillane could spell the end of Barry John Keane next year.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 25, 2018 21:27:08 GMT
The no evidence hype train runs out of control on here at times. Okunbor was a decent under 20s player who got badly exposed at times against Kildare- he has potential but is nowhere near intercounty level and wont be for a number of years (if ever). Talk of K Murphy on here- was always impressed with him as an underage player but injuries have blighted him- Diarmuid O Connor from Na Gaeil is a decent bit better than both and much more likely to make the step up. I've mentioned him on here before but I really like the look of David Shaw and also Tony Brosnan from Crokes could go close in the next year I thought Okunbor did relatively well against Kildare. You say suggesting Okunbor is hopping on "the no evidence hype train" but then suggest 2 players who didn't play as well as Okunbor for the u20s ( I think O'Connor is a very promising player but definetly needs a year or 2 of bulking up while I don't think Shaw is of intercounty standard ). Though I agree regarding Tony Brosnan. He and Killian Spillane could spell the end of Barry John Keane next year. I thought and still think that both are better than Okunbor, based on a collection of minor intercounty, under 20 intercounty and club performances. O Connor needs to bulk up but is miles ahead talent wise. Shaw will play intercounty for Kerry if he sticks with it
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 25, 2018 21:30:53 GMT
Tomás Ó'Sé from An Gaeltacht, on the minor team of 14 and impressed on the junior side last year.
Has he been in with the senior setup?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 25, 2018 21:32:17 GMT
Tomás Ó'Sé from An Gaeltacht, on the minor team of 14 and impressed on the junior side last year. Has he been in with the senior setup? There would be a good few lads ahead of him who arent making the panel at the moment
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 25, 2018 21:38:32 GMT
Tomás Ó'Sé from An Gaeltacht, on the minor team of 14 and impressed on the junior side last year. Has he been in with the senior setup? There would be a good few lads ahead of him who arent making the panel at the moment I asked as I'm looking through the minor team that lined out in 2014 final. I think there's a very good ball winner in Tomás. I recall Veteran giving high praise about his junior perfomances. Andrew Barry the centre back in the minor side of 14, he again played junior in 16. I'm trying to remember did he ever get league time?
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jul 25, 2018 21:51:02 GMT
Of all the young promising players that ye have mentioned in the last few posts I would say that Shane Murphy Stands out as being potentially more Valuable GK option and also apparently a right good strong outfield players well able to win his own ball
Regarding the No 8 Position I would say right now we would get huge surge from any player eg Griffin or Sean O Shea SOS seems to play like a midfielder anyhow not really supplying enough good ball to the other forwards as he seems to forage too deep on the other hand he has probably no choice as the midfield is not getting the job done
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 25, 2018 21:55:01 GMT
There would be a good few lads ahead of him who arent making the panel at the moment I asked as I'm looking through the minor team that lined out in 2014 final. I think there's a very good ball winner in Tomás. I recall Veteran giving high praise about his junior perfomances. Andrew Barry the centre back in the minor side of 14, he again played junior in 16. I'm trying to remember did he ever get league time? Didn't Andrew Barry come on against Mayo in Castlebar
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Post by ballynamona on Jul 25, 2018 21:56:47 GMT
There would be a good few lads ahead of him who arent making the panel at the moment I asked as I'm looking through the minor team that lined out in 2014 final. I think there's a very good ball winner in Tomás. I recall Veteran giving high praise about his junior perfomances. Andrew Barry the centre back in the minor side of 14, he again played junior in 16. I'm trying to remember did he ever get league time? He started v Monaghan in the NFL this year. He was quite poor and was brought off.
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Post by clubman on Jul 25, 2018 22:15:49 GMT
Is there any incentive for Kildare to win this game the next day other than pride? Its probably something the GAA have to look at to avoid complete dead rubbers in the last round
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 25, 2018 22:26:41 GMT
There would be a good few lads ahead of him who arent making the panel at the moment I asked as I'm looking through the minor team that lined out in 2014 final. I think there's a very good ball winner in Tomás. I recall Veteran giving high praise about his junior perfomances. Andrew Barry the centre back in the minor side of 14, he again played junior in 16. I'm trying to remember did he ever get league time? Tomas is a good footballer but there would be a good few ahead of him in the pecking order at the moment. Andrew Barry played this year in the league- good player but not sure how much more of him we'll see at this level
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 25, 2018 22:45:22 GMT
The no evidence hype train runs out of control on here at times. Okunbor was a decent under 20s player who got badly exposed at times against Kildare- he has potential but is nowhere near intercounty level and wont be for a number of years (if ever). Will Donaghy ever develop the basic skills needed of an intercounty player. Time is not on his side at this stage. Same with MDMA of Dublin. He would want to start pullin up his socks as he is in his late 20s. Tom Parsons was another.
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Post by john4 on Jul 25, 2018 22:49:46 GMT
Is there any incentive for Kildare to win this game the next day other than pride? Its probably something the GAA have to look at to avoid complete dead rubbers in the last round None that I can think of. And to add insult to injury for the Kildare supporters, their U20 final against Mayo is down for 1.15 the following day in Croke park so those who will travel to Killarney will probably have to head back up the country again after the match, The scheduling of matches this year has been a debacle. Next year I think provincial winners should have their home game first, there has to be a prize for winning your province and an opportunity to get a good start with the super 8's would be that, Next round should be in suitable neutral venues with the 2 provincial winners playing each other and the 2 qualifiers playing each other. Qualifiers have home venue for the last round.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 25, 2018 23:34:40 GMT
Whatever about personnel (and it's not bad. many counties would swap with us) this is an opportunity to get kick out strategy right at both ends of the field. Until we master this basic we are going nowhere
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 26, 2018 10:01:16 GMT
The no evidence hype train runs out of control on here at times. Okunbor was a decent under 20s player who got badly exposed at times against Kildare- he has potential but is nowhere near intercounty level and wont be for a number of years (if ever). Will Donaghy ever develop the basic skills needed of an intercounty player. Time is not on his side at this stage. Same with MDMA of Dublin. He would want to start pullin up his socks as he is in his late 20s. Tom Parsons was another. Have you seen Okunbor play? Do you think he’s at the same level as the aforementioned players? If not, then what’s your point? By the way- he’s not and you can apply the above logic to every able bodied person on the island, both myself and yourself included.
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Post by blackisbad on Jul 26, 2018 10:28:28 GMT
Monaghan beat Kildare by 2 points, Galway beat Kildare by 3 points, so does that mean neither Monaghan or Galway really belong in the AISF? Infairness at home in Killarney against a non defensive team who are out already. We should be beating Kildare comprehensively in my opinion. I think you will see a big reaction and Kerry by 9/10 points. Funnily enough if we manage to get out of the group I think we won't let ourselves down against Dublin. Unfortunately we needed the big reaction against Monaghan
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2018 10:36:06 GMT
Attitude, dedication, bloody mindedness,work ethic and sheer desire to win are as important as having silken skills. These attributes will be be important as regards which lads with minor medals will make it from those who wont.
It always annoys me to read that such and such a player was tried in one league game and didnt impress.
Think back to how long it took Tomas and Marc to make the step up not to mention David Moran. Donncha seemed to be a bit player for about 5 years before becoming an overnight success.
Its not always all about having all the skills either....MDMA, Donaghy, Parsons dont have all the skills ....
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 26, 2018 10:46:09 GMT
Will Donaghy ever develop the basic skills needed of an intercounty player. Time is not on his side at this stage. Same with MDMA of Dublin. He would want to start pullin up his socks as he is in his late 20s. Tom Parsons was another. Have you seen Okunbor play? Do you think he’s at the same level as the aforementioned players? If not, then what’s your point? By the way- he’s not and you can apply the above logic to every able bodied person on the island, both myself and yourself included. I think he could be a good midfielder but maybe not a full back, unless he drastically improves. He is tall, strong, fast, athletic. He can improve on his on the ball ability by being exposed to a higher standard and being worked on at training. I'm not saying he is on a level with Donaghy by any means but he got better by being inside at training. What have we to lose by keeping him around the senior panel for a year to see if he can improve these aspects of his game? Eamonn has kept others around for a lot longer and they haven't played any games. We need to get our of this mindset of having complete footballers coming through. Just because a fella is a midfielder at minor doesnt make him a midfielder at senior level. Paddy Andrews went from marking gooch in 2009 to a corner forward under Jim Gavin. We have fluted around with Paul Murphys positioning but, that's about it.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 26, 2018 10:49:09 GMT
Attitude, dedication, bloody mindedness,work ethic and sheer desire to win are as important as having silken skills. These attributes will be be important as regards which lads with minor medals will make it from those who wont. It always annoys me to read that such and such a player was tried in one league game and didnt impress. Think back to how long it took Tomas and Marc to make the step up not to mention David Moran. Donncha seemed to be a bit player for about 5 years before becoming an overnight success. Its not always all about having all the skills either....MDMA, Donaghy, Parsons dont have all the skills .... On the listed attributes- yeah I agree but it’s all well and good to talk about it but players will be judged on performances. We were speaking about a player who I have seen play a few times and don’t think is there yet. I never said that any player discussed wouldn’t make it. Also I don’t think I stated that because a player didn’t impress that they should be gone- I’ve previously gone out of my way to point out that this is a weakness of the current management- the way it dispenses with players.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 26, 2018 10:52:11 GMT
Have you seen Okunbor play? Do you think he’s at the same level as the aforementioned players? If not, then what’s your point? By the way- he’s not and you can apply the above logic to every able bodied person on the island, both myself and yourself included. I think he could be a good midfielder but maybe not a full back, unless he drastically improves. He is tall, strong, fast, athletic. He can improve on his on the ball ability by being exposed to a higher standard and being worked on at training. I'm not saying he is on a level with Donaghy by any means but he got better by being inside at training. What have we to lose by keeping him around the senior panel for a year to see if he can improve these aspects of his game? Eamonn has kept others around for a lot longer and they haven't played any games. We need to get our of this mindset of having complete footballers coming through. Just because a fella is a midfielder at minor doesnt make him a midfielder at senior level. Paddy Andrews went from marking gooch in 2009 to a corner forward under Jim Gavin. We have fluted around with Paul Murphys positioning but, that's about it. I do agree that players develop while being in with the panel but the panel will have a finite amount and there are more than that finite amount ahead of Stefan, Tomas and prob Andrew Barry at the moment It might not always be the case
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2018 11:05:33 GMT
Have you seen Okunbor play? Do you think he’s at the same level as the aforementioned players? If not, then what’s your point? By the way- he’s not and you can apply the above logic to every able bodied person on the island, both myself and yourself included. We need to get our of this mindset of having complete footballers coming through. You will get nowhere with a team of complete footballers. There are lots of complete hurlers in KK with no medals. Jesus Cody would be shocked to read such heresy.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jul 26, 2018 11:20:38 GMT
Of all the young promising players that ye have mentioned in the last few posts I would say that Shane Murphy Stands out as being potentially more Valuable GK option and also apparently a right good strong outfield players well able to win his own ball Regarding the No 8 Position I would say right now we would get huge surge from any player eg Griffin or Sean O Shea SOS seems to play like a midfielder anyhow not really supplying enough good ball to the other forwards as he seems to forage too deep on the other hand he has probably no choice as the midfield is not getting the job done Should have Said Shane Ryan above oops!
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 26, 2018 12:15:26 GMT
I think he could be a good midfielder but maybe not a full back, unless he drastically improves. He is tall, strong, fast, athletic. He can improve on his on the ball ability by being exposed to a higher standard and being worked on at training. I'm not saying he is on a level with Donaghy by any means but he got better by being inside at training. What have we to lose by keeping him around the senior panel for a year to see if he can improve these aspects of his game? Eamonn has kept others around for a lot longer and they haven't played any games. We need to get our of this mindset of having complete footballers coming through. Just because a fella is a midfielder at minor doesnt make him a midfielder at senior level. Paddy Andrews went from marking gooch in 2009 to a corner forward under Jim Gavin. We have fluted around with Paul Murphys positioning but, that's about it. I do agree that players develop while being in with the panel but the panel will have a finite amount and there are more than that finite amount ahead of Stefan, Tomas and prob Andrew Barry at the moment It might not always be the case I think that is part of the problem as well. While we give fellas one game and then if they don't perform we still keep them around the panel without any intention of giving them more games. Either give a lad a sustained chance to prove him self or drop him from the panel. We are doing a bit of everything at the moment. I firmly believe if it wasn't for suspensions and injuries Ronan Shannahan would have seen no game time this summer. So he would have been tipping around the panel for 2 years with no chance at all to prove himself in championship. Brendan O'Sullivan played a load of the league at the start, got banned, was dropped, got a few mins here and there; dropped to junior and was still on the panel / extended panel. Mark Griffin has gone from starting full back in the championship from dropped off the panel entirely in 1 season in 15 i think it was. Got a load of league games, dropped from the panel again. Then starts an All Ireland semi final. Kieran O'Leary & Mikey Geaeny were another two that were and off more than a light switch. Barry O'Sullivan played a few league games and hasn't been heard of since, not sure if he is injured. There is no consistency in the selection. In his first year playing for Kerry in 2002 Marc O'Sé was destroyed by Armagh in the league in Tralee on a Saturday evening I thin. He was poor in the final again that year. He wasn't kept around the panel and not used for 2 - 3 years; he was nurtured along. Tomas O'Se was taken off at half time in his first game in 98 in Killarney. Something similar happened Gooch in 02 in Killarney. You need to persist with players. A lad coming from a junior club in Kerry will need time to develop on the pitch. They aren't playing hardly any county league games so they are doing all their learning at senior inter county level and no amount of closed games in Killarney can prepare you for that.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 26, 2018 16:03:23 GMT
I do agree that players develop while being in with the panel but the panel will have a finite amount and there are more than that finite amount ahead of Stefan, Tomas and prob Andrew Barry at the moment It might not always be the case I think that is part of the problem as well. While we give fellas one game and then if they don't perform we still keep them around the panel without any intention of giving them more games. Either give a lad a sustained chance to prove him self or drop him from the panel. We are doing a bit of everything at the moment. I firmly believe if it wasn't for suspensions and injuries Ronan Shannahan would have seen no game time this summer. So he would have been tipping around the panel for 2 years with no chance at all to prove himself in championship. Brendan O'Sullivan played a load of the league at the start, got banned, was dropped, got a few mins here and there; dropped to junior and was still on the panel / extended panel. Mark Griffin has gone from starting full back in the championship from dropped off the panel entirely in 1 season in 15 i think it was. Got a load of league games, dropped from the panel again. Then starts an All Ireland semi final. Kieran O'Leary & Mikey Geaeny were another two that were and off more than a light switch. Barry O'Sullivan played a few league games and hasn't been heard of since, not sure if he is injured. There is no consistency in the selection. In his first year playing for Kerry in 2002 Marc O'Sé was destroyed by Armagh in the league in Tralee on a Saturday evening I thin. He was poor in the final again that year. He wasn't kept around the panel and not used for 2 - 3 years; he was nurtured along. Tomas O'Se was taken off at half time in his first game in 98 in Killarney. Something similar happened Gooch in 02 in Killarney. You need to persist with players. A lad coming from a junior club in Kerry will need time to develop on the pitch. They aren't playing hardly any county league games so they are doing all their learning at senior inter county level and no amount of closed games in Killarney can prepare you for that. Thats very true the issue is which players? at the moment we have a lot of lads at the same juncture in their footballing career so it can be tough to know shanahan/beaglaoich/foley/tomsullivan or the lads in half forward line. It is results for fitz aswell he knows that patience is thin on the ground. Drip feeding in a few players like we were then was easier into a settled successful team bit like the dubs now one or two a year would be perfect we dont have that luxury though another year of div 1 football and super 8s next year will be invaluable to my mind foley , white oshea, and clifford have proven themselves to be definite starters thats a good return as others have said its the more established players that havent performed for whatever reason thats why we are struggiling.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 26, 2018 16:56:40 GMT
Christ lads, no one is saying that you need a team of complete footballers so I’m not quite sure where people are getting that from.
The current ability of certain players to step up in the short/medium term was questioned.
If we apply the logic that seems to be getting bandied about on here about not needing a high level of ability to make it then I just can’t agree. That logic can apply to anyone- a certain level is needed even if you’re not “the complete footballer”
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 26, 2018 18:26:16 GMT
Is Alan Fitzgerald gone totally
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Post by veteran on Jul 26, 2018 18:43:00 GMT
After the weekend matches I commented that Kerry and Kildare had players red carded against Galway in similar circumstances, retaliation after being fouled off the ball. This theme is fleshed out in a very good article in today's Irish Independent. The hope is that officials may take note.
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