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Post by buck02 on Jul 18, 2018 12:02:53 GMT
"That’s my biggest worry for Kerry. Not the tactical plan, not the kick-outs, not their ability to break down a blanket defence. It’s plain and simple: who is going to stand up on Sunday, far from home with a small Kerry following in the crowd, and be the leader their team needs?" So Darragh is it a case of roaring and shouting and having fellas pumped to the nines in the dressing room in Clones on Sunday? If Fitzmaurice does that and the players respond then we will win, regardless of how the team set up, what our kick out strategy is etc. Come on now let's not be taking things out of context. Of course you must have tactics but it’s worth nothing without leadership and guts on the field. You'll implement nothing if you can't stand up for yourself or your teammates and that’s the point that Darragh was making not that tactics or a kick out strategy don't matter because of course they do. Moreover, Darragh was making the point that some of our senior players did not lead. JOD is playing like a player who no longer has the stomach for the battle. Those big looping runs aren't fooling anyone. Is he too afraid to get hurt or injured again? Is he afraid of been taken off? Where's the cheeky I'll run straight through you player of 13/14 gone? David Moran is an absolute gentleman but he needs to be horsing back on the field and putting others in the hurt locker not just be on receiving end. Paul Geaney needs to lead our line not be running around or halfback or fullback line. Paul Murphy cannot be anonymous and leadership is now needed from him. Who was ripping the head off Stephen O'Brien for the absolutely donkey pass that led to the Galway goal? You can be damn sure if we had a character like Seamus Moynihan around the place he would letting him know that is unacceptable. These players have the talent but do they have the guts to play without fear? Who will be our leaders in Clones, a 19 year old? Talk is cheap and we'll see now on Sunday and it's not a question of talent for me with those guys. No I agree with you but I just thought Darragh's article was an easy/lazy piece that could have come down to one line "Wheres your f**king pride?". In this thread I said we need to be the ones doing the bullying and getting the hits in first in Clones. But we can be doing all the hitting we like and running around acting the hard man but if we dont impose our game plan as well on Monaghan the next day we might as well forget about it. On Paul Geaney and James O Donoghue. Both of them made turnovers inside their own 45 last Sunday. Should they be told if their man goes beyond the half way line, then let them at it. I'm seriously asking that question to see what others think. I'd nearly be telling James O, Geaney and Clifford to stay inside the 45 at ALL times. If their men go up the pitch then its up to somebody else to cover. I'd also be getting Geaney and Clifford to hug the end line and try get the ball a bit closer to goal once they have made their runs then to get it. James O needs to run at his man first ball he gets 1v1 the next day.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 18, 2018 12:24:17 GMT
I think against a defensive set up you should keep your backs back and at least two lines of two up in the forwards.
A full back isn't going to be going sauntering up the pitch if a turnover and 2/3 quick kick passes ends up with the ball in the back of his net.
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Post by a01bf4eb on Jul 18, 2018 13:00:43 GMT
Regardless of the result this weekend or this year I think Kerry have taking a step backwards in development and the management needs to take responsibility for this. Eammon Fitzmaurice and the management team have run out of ideas and players are reacting to this. I feel this weekends game is going to be very close and Monaghan will just shade it by two points, hopefully I'm wrong! The management team should stand down for the good of the young players coming through and allow fresh heads take over to put new preservatives into the setup. Yes! Kerry will probably win an all Ireland eventually does this mean we let Eammon and his backroom team in place until they win? I think there is some very talented managers at underage level with vast experience and knowledge and they should be drafted in to the seniors to get that extra bit to win the All Ireland. If Kerry win this weekend they will more thank likely be in a semi final against Dublin/Tyrone. Sometimes it's better to have your weaknesses exposed before it's too late to rectify them. Whatever your view on management surely this week should be about supporting the team. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Kerry could win the AI this year.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 18, 2018 13:29:22 GMT
In this thread I said we need to be the ones doing the bullying and getting the hits in first in Clones. But we can be doing all the hitting we like and running around acting the hard man but if we dont impose our game plan as well on Monaghan the next day we might as well forget about it. On Paul Geaney and James O Donoghue. Both of them made turnovers inside their own 45 last Sunday. Should they be told if their man goes beyond the half way line, then let them at it. I'm seriously asking that question to see what others think. I'd nearly be telling James O, Geaney and Clifford to stay inside the 45 at ALL times. If their men go up the pitch then its up to somebody else to cover. I'd also be getting Geaney and Clifford to hug the end line and try get the ball a bit closer to goal once they have made their runs then to get it. James O needs to run at his man first ball he gets 1v1 the next day. Buck02, I'd agree that most of Darraghs articles are lazy/easy. I think in this case his basic point is that unless you can stand up for yourself, tactics will matter for nothing. Having the bottle/strength to deal with some of the crap and to dish it out when needed is important....it won't win you a game without a lot of other things including tactics but the absence of it can certainly lose you a game regardless of tactics. Hardly rocket science by Darragh but on the money in this case and to be fair, applicable to most young teams. The learning curve is steep and that's just part of it but David Clifford leading the way, while admirable, shouldn't have to happen when we have more experienced heads around him who now need to stand up and operate at the level he was at. Regarding your other point which I think is more interesting in terms of tactics and style of play, it constantly frustrates me that when we do turnover ball in say our half back line area, there is a complete absence of players ahead of the ball to whom a pass can reasonably be played. We might have someone in the FF position or thereabouts but typically too far away and we end up having to work it slowly forward with hand passes etc and run increased risk of losing the ball to another turnover. If it was up to me, I would hold 3 players inside the 45 and two of those close to/on the 45. This does mean not tracking back for some players beyond the 45 (and the responsibility there would rest with the players as the man chasing the guy with the ball should keep going I think....others will need to help with the interception of passes and if 3 of the forwards are tracking back, thats surely enough. The only way that can work (its a higher risk strategy obviously from a conceding a score perspective is speed of thought and movement across our entire team and continually focusing on tackling ability (which has improved this year to be fair). To be fair I thought they had that sorted in the Munster Championship (I even said to someone at the U20 match on Saturday that at least the Seniors have abandoned the lateral hand-passing and are moving the ball quickly to men on the move in the oppositions half of the field...famous last words!)We will though concede more scores but we should also score more by having good positioning for 'out-balls' from the half back line. I'd rather win 4-21 to 4-20 than win 0-11 to 0-10!
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 18, 2018 13:35:33 GMT
I think against a defensive set up you should keep your backs back and at least two lines of two up in the forwards. A full back isn't going to be going sauntering up the pitch if a turnover and 2/3 quick kick passes ends up with the ball in the back of his net. I'd have the same logic but, its a catch 22 situation. Lets say a defensive team decides to have 1/2 'breakouts' in the half as it were and not constantly have the full back / corner back bombing up the field. For arguments sake the Corner back and two wing backs to make a burst and Geaney and Clifford leave them off and we keep another 2 lads in the half forward line. We are already a man down. They opposition stretch the pitch. As long as they kick the ball dead at the other end and avoid a turn over they should get away with it. If they only do this 4 times in a game and it results in a goal etc for them its worth it. That was the thinking behind the sweeper the last day and the lining up around our own 45. To lessen the chance of us being outnumbered. The problem was that Kerry didnt have a middle line as it were as our half forward line were so deep there was no one to give the ball to when we did turn it over. Hence the hand passing. Throw in on top of that that we didnt have any joy at all in midfield so we couldn't 'hem' galway in and get a rythm going. It would be a very brave manager that will say regardless of whats unfolding behind I want 2 lines of 2 in the forwards. But, I think thats what we need is a bit of bravery or some bit of thinking outside the box. The other variation is to win it in the half back line and just drive it long before anyone has a chance to get back there. Let our half back line become an auxiliary defence / midfield and just go over them when we get it. Eventually the opposition will have to keep an extra man back which will allow us in theory push up a bit. Was talking to man this morning who firmly believes the tactic should be Clifford, Geaney, Donaghy in the full forward line and just rain high ball in on them as they are all good fielders. Drew Wiley is 6'1, Ryan Wiley is 6 foot and I think Kieran Duffy is around the same. Clifford is 6'2, Donaghy is 6'5 and Geaney is 6'1 as well so all reasonably well matched. But, the tactic will only work if we have 2 people haring in at top speed looking for breaks and knockdowns, O'Brien and Burns maybe. Its hard to know what tactic to use but,Monaghan are going to set up something similar to Galway so we must do something different. Part of me secretly hopes that Donaghy was held in reserve as we have some fantastic game plan built around him and we didnt want to be showing it off when the game was probably already gone for us as we were so poor but, thats only wishful thinking.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 18, 2018 13:49:45 GMT
Sorry Buck02...got confused in my quoting of posts, making it look like you had written my reply!....
Buck02, I'd agree that most of Darraghs articles are lazy/easy. I think in this case his basic point is that unless you can stand up for yourself, tactics will matter for nothing. Having the bottle/strength to deal with some of the crap and to dish it out when needed is important....it won't win you a game without a lot of other things including tactics but the absence of it can certainly lose you a game regardless of tactics. Hardly rocket science by Darragh but on the money in this case and to be fair, applicable to most young teams. The learning curve is steep and that's just part of it but David Clifford leading the way, while admirable, shouldn't have to happen when we have more experienced heads around him who now need to stand up and operate at the level he was at.
Regarding your other point which I think is more interesting in terms of tactics and style of play, it constantly frustrates me that when we do turnover ball in say our half back line area, there is a complete absence of players ahead of the ball to whom a pass can reasonably be played. We might have someone in the FF position or thereabouts but typically too far away and we end up having to work it slowly forward with hand passes etc and run increased risk of losing the ball to another turnover. If it was up to me, I would hold 3 players inside the 45 and two of those close to/on the 45. This does mean not tracking back for some players beyond the 45 (and the responsibility there would rest with the players as the man chasing the guy with the ball should keep going I think....others will need to help with the interception of passes and if 3 of the forwards are tracking back, thats surely enough. The only way that can work (its a higher risk strategy obviously from a conceding a score perspective is speed of thought and movement across our entire team and continually focusing on tackling ability (which has improved this year to be fair). To be fair I thought they had that sorted in the Munster Championship (I even said to someone at the U20 match on Saturday that at least the Seniors have abandoned the lateral hand-passing and are moving the ball quickly to men on the move in the oppositions half of the field...famous last words!)We will though concede more scores but we should also score more by having good positioning for 'out-balls' from the half back line. I'd rather win 4-21 to 4-20 than win 0-11 to 0-10!
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Post by augustafield on Jul 18, 2018 13:50:45 GMT
In Clones next week lets not forget we have to win a match to remain in the Championship . But we should not be involved in a slugfest with Monaghan . This would be a disaster playing into their hands as they will try every trick in the book both verbal and physical to rattle our cage. And after watching how easily we were bullied and pushed around last weekend they wont be a bit shy in giving us more of the same safe in the knowledge that we have no hard men on our team to stand up to them . No good appealling to the Ref like last weekend - if a Kerry player is hit he must hit back . No good relying on a team mate - fight your own corner has to be the policy . Its ironic that Killian Young got the line last week - he was reacting to being pulled back from running out the field and in frustration probably did what any player would . And that is not at all his style. Darragh’s article today is spot on . We need men vlike O Mahony , Galvin , Darragh himself to impose themselves on the game but sad to say we dont have them . Maybe a fine bust up early in the game might clear the air because believe you me Monaghan wont stand on ceremony and will want to give us a hostile welcome and send us home with our tail between our legs. And the pity is after seeing Monaghan struggle to beat Kildare last Saturday they are very beatable . Hopefully Kerry can surprise us all and do the job on Sunday - for themselves and not slavishly follow the Managements directions. Safe travel and safe home to all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 14:59:30 GMT
Yes this is the game where some players will have to stand up and be counted. Fitzmaurce of course is in the hot seat.
Monaghan will be really up for this one. The home crowd behind them just the possibility of knocking out Kerry will be enough to get them going. The physical stuff won't help Kerry. They have to move the ball fast and dump this short passing it's killing them.
Start Donaghy drive it in early and quick he will take up their attention. At least 2 backs. You put Geaney and Clifford inside with him and keep them there. That will nullify the full back line. Breakes around midfied will be very important. We have to win that 60/40 ball just have to and get it into to our full forward line. Jack Barry has to move the ball quick and not get caught in possession and running into dead ends. Hes notorious for it as is other players. We won't win if we play the short passing game and slow it down no way. I can only see defeat that way you will be playing into Monaghans hands.
Speed and movement will beat them. I know Murphy has to be quicker with the kick outs but we have to move quick too and be alert not walking out with our backs to the ball.
Donaghy could be the difference in this game if he starts him. If we use him early and he bangs a goal and we get a couple of scores I think we will be well on our way.
Can't see us winning if he doesn't start. Of course he has to get decent ball too not skyscrapers that take half an hour to come down. Donaghy is a smart player he will know when to run and point where he wants it just give it to him for the love of god and he'll either score win a free or pass it off.
That's my take on it. Monaghan are a physical side we go up there and try to mix it with them and slow the game down to me there is only one winner. Not Kerry.
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 18, 2018 15:07:33 GMT
We need intensity and not thuggery from our team in Clones - imperative we keep 15 on the field of play and Dara seems more inclined to advocate a Killian Young approach which he himself was accustomed to and he saw red for it on occasion also. There is a pattern to our games in that when an opposition nullifies David Moran we struggle as a team and don't have any counter measures which is yet another tactical screw up by our team and mentors that needs to be addressed. Pundits, particularly those who have tried management with little success amuse me and should be read with caution. I was hugely impressed by the Monaghan ability to turnover ball last Sunday - if they do this in Clones we will be in trouble. The positive is that they also were turned over a lot in possession and I hope we can target this - however our tackling is more at the man rather then the ball and again this concerns me. Our players need to up their intensity and be more direct - particularly when they turnover ball.
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 18, 2018 15:24:25 GMT
Full game from this year's League
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 15:26:00 GMT
A wet day won't help us either. Not an excuse. Every team needs to adjust to it but I know we'll struggle.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 18, 2018 15:35:09 GMT
A wet day won't help us either. Not an excuse. Every team needs to adjust to it but I know we'll struggle. For some reason we struggle extra in the rain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 15:46:05 GMT
We do and we fall and slip a lot and lose the ball a lot it seems when we get tackled in the rain we drop the ball more. Our kicking too seems off and we drop a lot of ball into the goalkeepers hands. The rain will slow it down and Monaghan will love that.
If it rains we definitely have to move it fast and take chances. Short passing 50 times before kicking it won't work. We have to take chances. Bring subs in earlier if need be but if it rains or dry we have to keep a game plan and still move it quick.
We saw against Galway when we passed it around in the rain and moving it slow got us.
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 18, 2018 15:50:08 GMT
A wet day won't help us either. Not an excuse. Every team needs to adjust to it but I know we'll struggle. For some reason we struggle extra in the rain. Apart from the 2015 Munster Final Replay and 2015 All-Ireland semi-final! I know you can point to the 15 final and last week but I don't think the wet has anything to do with at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 16:22:26 GMT
V Dublin in 2011 V Donegal in 2012 v Mayo in 2017 drawn game. We struggled against Tyrone too in 2015. we won but had trouble. Im not saying its a huge deal but like our tactics and kick outs etc it can trouble us. We play better with dry ball. Not to mention the physical side of it. Im just saying rain and a wet ball slows our game down and We have some light guys and they don't perform as well in the rain.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 18, 2018 16:31:43 GMT
For some reason we struggle extra in the rain. Apart from the 2015 Munster Final Replay and 2015 All-Ireland semi-final! I know you can point to the 15 final and last week but I don't think the wet has anything to do with at all. Fair enough. I can't remember the 2015 MFR. I had considered the 2015 SF but don't think we exactly lit it up that they and as I recall there was some sloppy play that day... but it was a solid win in fairness.
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Post by brosna11 on Jul 18, 2018 18:25:24 GMT
That article this morning was nonsense, afraid to have a go at management.
Any article by any former Kerry players are rubbish, not worth the paper they're on.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jul 18, 2018 18:29:17 GMT
That article this morning was nonsense, afraid to have a go at management. Any article by any former Kerry players are rubbish, not worth the paper they're on. All the ex players are too cosy with Eamon and won’t criticise him when it’s getting fairly clear that he’s the issue
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Post by buck02 on Jul 18, 2018 18:57:31 GMT
That article this morning was nonsense, afraid to have a go at management. Any article by any former Kerry players are rubbish, not worth the paper they're on. All the ex players are too cosy with Eamon and won’t criticise him when it’s getting fairly clear that he’s the issue And its fair to say that going back to the Dublin 2013 defeat, when he blamed David Moran for the McManamon goal, he regularly likes to point the finger at David. Darragh's elbow must still hurt from the time he burst David nose.
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Post by brosna11 on Jul 18, 2018 19:09:41 GMT
I know John Dennis off Austin Stacks has been in with Kerry the last few weeks. If he's up to the pace I would throw him corner back and let him get up the arse off McManus.
John has been rolling back the years for Stacks this year and this would be a just reward for him.
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Post by glengael on Jul 18, 2018 19:25:29 GMT
Apart from the 2015 Munster Final Replay and 2015 All-Ireland semi-final! I know you can point to the 15 final and last week but I don't think the wet has anything to do with at all. Fair enough. I can't remember the 2015 MFR. I had considered the 2015 SF but don't think we exactly lit it up that they and as I recall there was some sloppy play that day... but it was a solid win in fairness. Forget the 2015 Replay? The incessant rain, the darkness, floods of water coming down the Lewis Road? You must have had a VIP ticket that day Annascaul.... Fact check. In as far as I can remember in 81 championship matches Darragh was sent off precisely twice, both in 2008. I don't read it that he is encouraging players to go out and flake their opponents, more that they be less inclined to be standing back and 'admiring' them, which was happening last week (and has happened before). If I was Marc O'Se I'd be going demented in the stand looking at defenders who don't at least try to block down the forward, just stand back and look at him taking his point. If they aren't coached on how to block down anymore, I'm sure Marc oblige some fine evening. Finally I wouldn't think too much of the fact that management aren't in the dock. In reality you'd hope some of them aspire to wearing a Kerry jersey long after the present sideline men have departed for the VIP seats. Managers come and go but the jersey is still there to be claimed. How badly do some of them want it?
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 18, 2018 19:30:06 GMT
www.the42.ie/kerry-mayo-football-league-castlebar-3832823-Feb2018/The Kerry team that played Mayo in the league didnt stand on ceremony. Its in the link above. Mayo were not tuned in football wise but it became a war of attrition once Even Regan got the slap. Kerry coped just fine. Darraghs net point is to let the football do the talking after you have stood your ground and asserted yourself
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 18, 2018 20:25:26 GMT
It's got to that stage of week that pride in Kerry is starting to flow through me (Someone who is better with the written English language can express it better)
I was in the season is done camp on Sunday evening, Monday and Tuesday. In fact I was done with GAA as was evidenced by my other thread.
But after devouring all media from Sunday evening to now its clear our backs are against the wall and nobody's giving us a chance including sections of our supporters.
Whatever happens in the coming days and on Sunday, can we all just get behind the team and management. Forget the negativity, fake it if you have to!
Ciarraí Abú!
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Post by smalltalk on Jul 18, 2018 20:44:28 GMT
At the end of the day we are all green n gold to the core and so proud to be from Kerry .... I for one will be behind the team all the way in Clones #ciarraiabu ...
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Post by taibhse on Jul 18, 2018 20:49:01 GMT
I know John Dennis off Austin Stacks has been in with Kerry the last few weeks. If he's up to the pace I would throw him corner back and let him get up the arse off McManus. John has been rolling back the years for Stacks this year and this would be a just reward for him. If you think that a lad can come in from Club football and be equipped to play inter-county championship football after a few weeks I would suggest to you that you are grossly mistaken. I would also doubt that John Dennis is in with the senior squad.
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Post by piggott on Jul 18, 2018 21:22:31 GMT
All the ex players are too cosy with Eamon and won’t criticise him when it’s getting fairly clear that he’s the issue And its fair to say that going back to the Dublin 2013 defeat, when he blamed David Moran for the McManamon goal, he regularly likes to point the finger at David. Darragh's elbow must still hurt from the time he burst David nose. Or is it going back to 94 and 95 when Ogie left Darragh sitting on his arse. In fairness did he not come down off the stand to Pat O Shea in the Cork replay in 2008 to put David on.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jul 18, 2018 22:55:27 GMT
Any update on the injury front. If Foley and Morley are both out it reduces our options big time.
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Post by A.N. Other on Jul 18, 2018 23:04:11 GMT
I know John Dennis off Austin Stacks has been in with Kerry the last few weeks. If he's up to the pace I would throw him corner back and let him get up the arse off McManus. John has been rolling back the years for Stacks this year and this would be a just reward for him. This has to be one of the most outrageous posts I've ever read on this forum. Is this his mammy by any chance?
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Post by redbag on Jul 18, 2018 23:10:37 GMT
Simples, score more than monaghan and we win. Man to man, push up for kick outs and go for broke. Zero to lose. Over complicate at your peril.
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Post by kerryboy83 on Jul 18, 2018 23:42:41 GMT
I know John Dennis off Austin Stacks has been in with Kerry the last few weeks. If he's up to the pace I would throw him corner back and let him get up the arse off McManus. John has been rolling back the years for Stacks this year and this would be a just reward for him. This has to be one of the most outrageous posts I've ever read on this forum. Is this his mammy by any chance? I hope you are been sarcastic. How could you possible bring in a fella that has never played inter county football before and throw him in to Mark s player of McManuss callibre..🤔🤔🤔🤔
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