|
Post by wayupnorth on Jul 16, 2018 6:54:02 GMT
Same 15, throw down the gauntlet to them - I would expect a far different performance next week. I understand your approach here but Jesus Christ no- the sink or swim approach won’t work here and could kill many a young lads intercounty career before it gets going. Added to that is the fact that a number of players on yesterday either aren’t up to it or have regressed to no longer be up to it. I want us to win so would definitely not go with the same team As a middle ground I would go with minimal changes. We have too little time to bed in drastic change - that’s what happened at the semi final replay. We know now that they’re not as good as they looked against Cork and Clare but they’re probably not as bad as they looked yesterday. Indeed if they are that bad there’s nothing we can do anyway so they could be let off the leash and allowed to play to their undoubted strengths.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 8:17:21 GMT
Shane Murphy may have not hit his mark on a couple of times yesterday but the movement of the half back/forwards and midfield was shocking. On more than one occasion, the entire two back lines and midfield were in a crowd together, no running or movement. I'd say Murphy didn't know what to do half the time. Also, why didn't we push up on the Galway kick out like we did against Cork? Why did we go deep and play so defensive?
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 16, 2018 8:31:34 GMT
Shane Murphy may have not hit his mark on a couple of times yesterday but the movement of the half back/forwards and midfield was shocking. On more than one occasion, the entire two back lines and midfield were in a crowd together, no running or movement. I'd say Murphy didn't know what to do half the time. Also, why didn't we push up on the Galway kick out like we did against Cork? Why did we go deep and play so defensive? How did Dublin set up against Tyrone last year?
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Jul 16, 2018 9:44:22 GMT
Monaghan ground out a result yesterday. Some of the wides in the 2nd half by both sides in their match was appalling but it suited Monaghan down to the ground. Never mind the quality. Keep it tight on the scoreboard and chip away a point or two. Lots of niggle off the ball to get fellas distracted and lo and behold there's an away win. I'd imagine it will be more of the same in Clones, a ground which they are much more familiar with than Kerry will ever be.
So what wondrous, imaginative solution will Kerry come up with? Who will get inside the players heads and convince them that all is not lost and inspire them to play with some modicum of self belief? On the evidence of last year, I have zero confidence that management will come up with anything.
|
|
|
Post by egbabroad on Jul 16, 2018 9:50:49 GMT
Last chance saloon next weekend for Kerry. Same old fault lines appear, no strategy on kick outs (theirs/ours), so Shane goes for a hit and hope. When in trouble we bring on the old warhorses, it is obvious that BJK has had his chance and is not the man to turn to when you are chasing the game. Hopefully, it was a case of dirty diesel, as Kerry have not had a serious match since the league, but we are a way off being contenders for the AI. We need to cool expectations and let the young guns cut their teeth over the next 2/3 seasons.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:52:01 GMT
Shane Murphy may have not hit his mark on a couple of times yesterday but the movement of the half back/forwards and midfield was shocking. On more than one occasion, the entire two back lines and midfield were in a crowd together, no running or movement. I'd say Murphy didn't know what to do half the time. Also, why didn't we push up on the Galway kick out like we did against Cork? Why did we go deep and play so defensive? How did Dublin set up against Tyrone last year? What's your point?
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
|
Post by kerryexile on Jul 16, 2018 11:05:58 GMT
Control For the second week in a row the symbols (< and >) are wrongly arranged in the voting thing.
|
|
|
Post by listowelemerrs on Jul 16, 2018 11:13:52 GMT
Paul Murphy to CHF I would think. I'd put Donnacha on one wing and o'brien also. We need ball winners and intelligent players on half forward line. Same FF line should be ok but if donaghy started i wouldn't mind either.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Jul 16, 2018 11:22:43 GMT
Bit more height needed in both half lines only o shea of the six is decent in the air. Too 3asy to crowd the midfielders out of it i wouldnt blame murphy for the kickouts if no one is moving then he can only send it long.
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 16, 2018 11:24:39 GMT
Paul Murphy to CHF I would think. I'd put Donnacha on one wing and o'brien also. We need ball winners and intelligent players on half forward line. Same FF line should be ok but if donaghy started i wouldn't mind either. No No No god No. Lads we need scorers and pace in the HL line we won't throw out the baby with the bath water just yet. We are not as good as we thought but equally not as bad as yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 16, 2018 11:26:51 GMT
Personally I don't think the issue is the personnel on the pitch.
Kerry didn't perform and didn't look organised eityer.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 16, 2018 11:28:27 GMT
How did Dublin set up against Tyrone last year? What's your point? The point I am making is that usually a good team nullifies a defensive team by keeping men back themselves so as not to be vulnerable to a counter attack.
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Jul 16, 2018 11:34:30 GMT
A call to arms from the likes of Sheehy might be more timely this week, similar to Tullamore in 2009.
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
|
Post by kerryexile on Jul 16, 2018 11:41:27 GMT
There is at least 1 change that must happen for next week. Young is out (and Morley presumably injured) so there is a spot in defence to be filled. If ever there was a horse for a particular course it is Shanahan to mark McManus. He is tailor made for that kind of role. It could be the key to winning - McManus quietened in front of home fans.
I don't think management is discerning enough to see that or maybe the SYSTEM doesn't allow such common sense. Enright could be given the job, if he is fit but he would be unlikely to succeed.
|
|
|
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 16, 2018 11:58:39 GMT
There is at least 1 change that must happen for next week. Young is out (and Morley presumably injured) so there is a spot in defence to be filled. If ever there was a horse for a particular course it is Shanahan to mark McManus. He is tailor made for that kind of role. It could be the key to winning - McManus quietened in front of home fans. I don't think management is discerning enough to see that or maybe the SYSTEM doesn't allow such common sense. Enright could be given the job, if he is fit but he would be unlikely to succeed. Whats the odds we will end up with Mark Griffin / Enright full back and Crowley to center back ??
|
|
|
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 16, 2018 12:01:30 GMT
Bit more height needed in both half lines only o shea of the six is decent in the air. Too 3asy to crowd the midfielders out of it i wouldnt blame murphy for the kickouts if no one is moving then he can only send it long. Agree RE D Walsh if we are going that way. Would keep Seanie Shea ahead of the rest but, he has to take the frees. Would like to see JO'D moved to the wing as he might get more space out there on the loop to kickstart his season. Look lads, to be honest after the display yesterday but by the players and the side line i will be travelling more in hope that any great expectation. If Monaghan get a run on us in their home ground we could get a hiding.
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,687
|
Post by Jo90 on Jul 16, 2018 12:04:00 GMT
Kerry can't play the sweeper, we should know that at this stage. It's up to management to think of defensive alternatives. One thing we're missing is a forward who can help the midfielders in the high fielding stakes but still have the right attributes of a forward. We've had it before with Donaghy and Buckley but Donaghy no longer viable and Buckley unavailable. Is there anyone else who fits the bill?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 12:43:54 GMT
Sean o se could/should be that guy. I don't see anyone else who could do it without hurting the team in other ways.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 12:49:40 GMT
The point I am making is that usually a good team nullifies a defensive team by keeping men back themselves so as not to be vulnerable to a counter attack. So we abandon what we were doing so well and getting us results up to now? Surely pushing up on team, defensive or not, will result in more possession and forcing turnovers and is the way to beat a blanket defence. It would also prevent us getting completely wiped out in midfield like we were yesterday. Trying to play Galway at their own game, and playing a sweeper, was never going to work.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Jul 16, 2018 12:54:44 GMT
Was thinking about Buckley yesterday he couldve made a difference he is strong good tackler,good in the air can take a score just not quite fast enough for a high tempo game which yesterday was not! Also its not just the hf line need options at 5,6,7 aswell morley, gavin crowley, and griffen are 3 options i can see i know morleys injured and im not advocating starting all three but at least one of the other two could make some bit of difference!
|
|
|
Post by a01bf4eb on Jul 16, 2018 13:06:50 GMT
Couple of points. Division 1 form is very relevant. Galway beat everyone bar Dublin this year. They are a team to be taken seriously. 3/1 Was way too big. I had a slice. Also went with Dublin at -6 and Tyrone at -3 in a treble. Can't believe Dublin let me down having been 8 up at one stage. Anyway covered the stake with the Galway bet so all's well that... Kerry had an awful lot of young lads having their first serious championship test. Not easy. This cannot be stressed enough. Major major issue. See Donegal 2017 for details. Looked great in league flopped in champ. The above two points conflict to a degree but you get the picture. And some minor observations. Cork have proven to be dreadful. In hindsight Kerry would have been better off ignoring how that game went. Munster is as bad as Leinster now. I badly overestimated Cork. So did Kerry. Clifford is quality. JOD has regressed. Talk of Kerry's front 6 being the best in the country is just that at the moment, talk. Has potential to be fair. Disappointed in Geaney today. I rate him the best of any Kerry player and is the only one who would defo start for Dublin. After today Clifford too. Galway have been strong at u21 compared to Kerry recently. U21 is a better indicator than minor. Much better. A lot here clamouring for Donaghy to be pitched in. Has he been effective since 2014? He's 36 now? I think EF is right to stick with younger lads, although BJK or Walsh hardly qualify. The good news is that Kerry have another shot. Win next week and they are in semi. Well capable I think. League game was a dogfight in sh1t conditions and Kerry came up just short. Firm sod will suit Kerry. Monaghan are a solid side but Fermanagh beat them. If Kerry are serious contenders they should beat them too. Kerry by 3. Some valid points here. I didn't hear many in the media predicting a Galway win beforehand. Ciaran Whelan wrote an article recently suggesting that Kerry were his favorites for the All Ireland, that's up there with Darragh O'Se tipping Cork to win last years Munster final. Good point re Kerry v Monaghan in the league, that was in Inniskeen so at least you would imagine Clones will suit Kerry better. I disagree regarding Donaghy though, he's 35 but i thought the game was crying out for is introduction yesterday when Kerry looked out of ideas. I think he could play a big part next weekend possibly from the start. What is the point of him still being there otherwise? He looked sharp in both appearances this year albeit against inferior opposition.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 16, 2018 14:02:24 GMT
The point I am making is that usually a good team nullifies a defensive team by keeping men back themselves so as not to be vulnerable to a counter attack. So we abandon what we were doing so well and getting us results up to now? Surely pushing up on team, defensive or not, will result in more possession and forcing turnovers and is the way to beat a blanket defence. It would also prevent us getting completely wiped out in midfield like we were yesterday. Trying to play Galway at their own game, and playing a sweeper, was never going to work. I didn't actually suggest a sweeper. I merely suggested we keep backs back. Do you recall how Dublin set up against Tyrone?
|
|
|
Post by clarinman on Jul 16, 2018 14:08:29 GMT
Paul Murphy to CHF I would think. I'd put Donnacha on one wing and o'brien also. We need ball winners and intelligent players on half forward line. Same FF line should be ok but if donaghy started i wouldn't mind either. We'll need someone to track their number 7 O'Connell who kicked 3 good points against Kildare yesterday.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 14:32:18 GMT
So we abandon what we were doing so well and getting us results up to now? Surely pushing up on team, defensive or not, will result in more possession and forcing turnovers and is the way to beat a blanket defence. It would also prevent us getting completely wiped out in midfield like we were yesterday. Trying to play Galway at their own game, and playing a sweeper, was never going to work. I didn't actually suggest a sweeper. I merely suggested we keep backs back. Do you recall how Dublin set up against Tyrone? I think the best way to beat the blanket is to push up. That's my opinion. Easier to actually make your point than alluding to some random game.
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Jul 16, 2018 14:33:54 GMT
Couple of points. Division 1 form is very relevant. Galway beat everyone bar Dublin this year. They are a team to be taken seriously. 3/1 Was way too big. I had a slice. Also went with Dublin at -6 and Tyrone at -3 in a treble. Can't believe Dublin let me down having been 8 up at one stage. Anyway covered the stake with the Galway bet so all's well that... Kerry had an awful lot of young lads having their first serious championship test. Not easy. This cannot be stressed enough. Major major issue. See Donegal 2017 for details. Looked great in league flopped in champ. The above two points conflict to a degree but you get the picture. And some minor observations. Cork have proven to be dreadful. In hindsight Kerry would have been better off ignoring how that game went. Munster is as bad as Leinster now. I badly overestimated Cork. So did Kerry. Clifford is quality. JOD has regressed. Talk of Kerry's front 6 being the best in the country is just that at the moment, talk. Has potential to be fair. Disappointed in Geaney today. I rate him the best of any Kerry player and is the only one who would defo start for Dublin. After today Clifford too. Galway have been strong at u21 compared to Kerry recently. U21 is a better indicator than minor. Much better. A lot here clamouring for Donaghy to be pitched in. Has he been effective since 2014? He's 36 now? I think EF is right to stick with younger lads, although BJK or Walsh hardly qualify. The good news is that Kerry have another shot. Win next week and they are in semi. Well capable I think. League game was a dogfight in sh1t conditions and Kerry came up just short. Firm sod will suit Kerry. Monaghan are a solid side but Fermanagh beat them. If Kerry are serious contenders they should beat them too. Kerry by 3. We i think , its very obvious on yesterdays performance are not serious contenders. Dublin have a handy one this year. On donaghy since 2014vid point you to the same game at the same stage last year 1-2 in first half
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 16, 2018 14:34:50 GMT
I didn't actually suggest a sweeper. I merely suggested we keep backs back. Do you recall how Dublin set up against Tyrone? I think the best way to beat the blanket is to push up. That's my opinion. Easier to actually make your point than alluding to some random game. As far as I understand Kildare pushed up on Carlow and paid the price. Last year's Dublin Tyrone game was a watershed that tolled the end of the blanket defence.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 15:04:23 GMT
I think the best way to beat the blanket is to push up. That's my opinion. Easier to actually make your point than alluding to some random game. As far as I understand Kildare pushed up on Carlow and paid the price. Last year's Dublin Tyrone game was a watershed that tolled the end of the blanket defence. And Dublin didn't push up on Tyrone? that's my point!
|
|
|
Post by oldschool on Jul 16, 2018 15:22:08 GMT
Feelo has it dead right about goalie and kick out. Someone please tell EF to deal with it
|
|
|
Post by buck02 on Jul 16, 2018 15:32:09 GMT
Monaghan have no glaring weakness IMO and this will be a really, really tough proposition.
A lot depends on how this young Kerry team react to the abject display yesterday. Its swim or sink time.
The 2 Wylies will likely pick up Geaney and Clifford. Karl O Connell caused Paddy Brophy all sorts of problems from wing back yesterday. Figuring out how to get him on the backfoot will be a puzzle for Fitzmaurice.
The middle of the field will be a real battlezone and the 7 or 8 lads out there will have their work cut out. Our fellas better be ready to put in the hits first out there.
I would be concerned about who will mark Conor McManus. And in turn who will be left to mark Conor McCarthy.
We could also do with a referee who gives us the breaks, like Galway got yesterday from that little Derry fella.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jul 16, 2018 15:40:36 GMT
Karl o Connell operated around the half back line but got forward to kick three points from play
|
|