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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 21:37:40 GMT
It's a stadium in Dublin. It's a home ground. Is Fitzgerald Stadium owned by Kerry GAA? I don't think it is! Anyway, a home ground can be any ground in the home county. This Parnell Park chat is nonsense. Croke Park is Dublin's home. But designating it as a 'nuetral' ground for this series of games is downright brazen by the GAA. On that point, it looks likely that Kerry could end up away to Monaghan. Could Monaghan, if they wanted to, bring us to Inniskeen again or are there certain stipulations in relation to capacity etc for these games? I think they could if they wanted to. I don't see the gaa interfering in such a decision regardless, not worth the hassle. I can't see it being anywhere but clones. Have Monaghan played many championship games in iniskeen?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 21:40:15 GMT
One home, one away, one neutral. And justice for all. This is how it should obviously have been from the start but for cynical silly buggers by corporate interests in Croke Park. The Donegal game will probably have to be played in Croke Park this year but we all need to make enough noise to get this absolute bull* sorted out for next year. The system as it stands will have Dublin playing their most difficult game every year - against another provincial champion - at home. Every year. This is intolerable. It is too late to change at this stage. Counties had plenty of notice but of course they were asleep at the wheel. It need to be corrected going forward.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 5, 2018 1:21:23 GMT
Monaghan Vs Kerry in Clones will be a great prospect. And the crowd would be close to what would come to Pairc An Chrocaigh to support those teams leaving aside all the neutrals who rock up to Croker on big game days.
I'm not sure if Donegal playing Dublin in Clones is comparable - 30,000 Vs 65,000. But if Donegal wanted it there they should have it anyway. It's the only other venue that's a reasonable distance for both sets of supporters. Of course lots of Donegal people work and live in Dublin anyway which makes quite a difference, and it's a well-known tradition that teams and fans love to have a big championship game in Croke Park, especially if their chances of playing there again in that summer are somewhat odds against.
People keep saying the GAC and Croke Park are all about money for the CC in this case but it's the Donegal and Dublin County Boards who stand to do most well out of the game having the biggest possible crowd. But Donegal would have a better chance to win or push the game very close in Clones. Kerry-Galway should be in Limerick. What's the thinking and application behind the actual fixture/venue?
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 5, 2018 8:11:22 GMT
I'm finding it very difficult to get too worked up about either the clash with the World Cup Final or the Dublin "neutral" venue. Yes it would be interesting to see what would have happened if the Dublin v Donegal match was fixed for the 15th at 4pm, and I think there would have been howls of outrage and (worse for the GAA hierarchy) a diminished attendance for the match. Kerry and Galway supporters don't traditionally travel in large numbers at this stage of the competition so most going anyway would choose the. Super 8 over the World Cup. A no brainier for the bureaucracy! On the neutral venue, did nobody see this coming or is it just another stick to beat the Dubs with? They should not be penalised for their geography and it would be pure madness to insist the home match be played in Parnell. Perhaps a (purely philosophical) way around this would be that as CP is the HOME of Gaelic games any county may designate it as their home venue. For Kerry we have never minded who we beat and we have always been ready to play anyone, anywhere and anytime. There's no fear of Dublin ever being penalised by geography, that's for sure. The Parnell Park thing is just a red herring and nobody is seriously suggesting the Dubs play any game there. The argument here is about Dublin having two games at home i.e. in Dublin and everybody else having one. Home advantage isn't about a particular ground or who owns what. More than anything else it's about about logistics and finance in relation to supporters. The wonder of it is that a row is only brewing now. We've known all along that the Dubs would have two home games. I said penalised FOR geography not BY geography. Prepositions are important. You could say the rest of us are penalised by geography and there is not much we can do about that except move to Dublin. What I meant was that you can't blame Dublin for wanting to play in CP when it is on their doorstep. I agree that the wonder is that it is only being noticed now and I said as much in my original post. The proverbial blind man on a galloping horse would have spotted it when it was first proposed even as "one CP, one home, one away" (note NOT neutral). I don't think we should be making heavy weather out of it. Firstly because it will only be a distraction to us and secondly it will encourage a siege mentality in the Dubs (this is already happening) which can only be to their advantage.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 5, 2018 8:17:27 GMT
It's a stadium in Dublin. It's a home ground. Is Fitzgerald Stadium owned by Kerry GAA? I don't think it is! Anyway, a home ground can be any ground in the home county. This Parnell Park chat is nonsense. Croke Park is Dublin's home. But designating it as a 'nuetral' ground for this series of games is downright brazen by the GAA. On that point, it looks likely that Kerry could end up away to Monaghan. Could Monaghan, if they wanted to, bring us to Inniskeen again or are there certain stipulations in relation to capacity etc for these games? I doubt it because the CCCC have to ratify the home venue and there is no way that Inniskeen is suitable from a logistics perspective (pitch 2km outside a small village in the middle of the countryside). Monaghan play all their home championship games in Clones so there is no reason to think it would be anywhere else.
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 5, 2018 8:49:13 GMT
We are led to believe (and I am not doubting) that the attraction of playing in Croke Park is immense for all players from Malin to Mizen - the Neutral issue is only partly geographic. It is also the way in which Dublin get the hill for their fans, the familiar dressingroom and warm up in front of their fans - its the overall package of comforts accorded to Dublin when playing in Croke Park. If Croke Park is a neutral venue then it should be very obviously a neutral venue. There is no apparent effort by the GAA to be seen to be fair when it comes to how Dublin are treated and this simply fans the flames of disgruntlement - their is strong evidence that finances (and there is no argument but that Dublin are the biggest draw) comes first in scheduling and not the cost or inconvenience to travelling fans. The scheduling of concerts in Croke Park in the height of the Championship season is further proof of this fixation on finance that permeates the GAA at the highest levels. Is it no wonder that those who argue that the GAA is a grass roots association where the club should be first are ignored. The old ABBA hit MONEY MONEY MONEY is surely the National Anthem of the GAA.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 5, 2018 9:15:26 GMT
On the concert thing, to be fair to the GAA its a huge income stream for them. You can hardly have a stadium concert in Ireland in November or February. The artists doing stadium tours in Europe do them during the summer. But they should be restricted to the months of May and June. Which obviously reduces the choice of artist and therefore makes ticket sales more difficult. But I think thats a sacrifice that needs to be made.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 5, 2018 10:16:13 GMT
On the concert thing, to be fair to the GAA its a huge income stream for them. You can hardly have a stadium concert in Ireland in November or February. The artists doing stadium tours in Europe do them during the summer. But they should be restricted to the months of May and June. Which obviously reduces the choice of artist and therefore makes ticket sales more difficult. But I think thats a sacrifice that needs to be made. Sensible post the GAA and i count myself as part of it! Need the money that is provided by both concerts and Dublin playing there no point saying otherwise. I actually dont see an easy answer here the prov champs playing in CP is a good idea.but how do you square the dublin problem? I think the last game should be in a neutral venue (if possible). Also this shambles of having two double headers in cp on one weekend, why cant the two groups have seperate schedules? Ie Grp 1 as is Grp 2 prov champs home games weekend 1, cp week2, quals home games. This would lessen the impact on Donegal for example they get their home game first rather than having to essentially 2 away games.(they could be gone by the time their home game comes this year easily) I dont know who is in Dublins group next year but i wouldnt be happy if it was us and we had to play them first and then an away game v tyrone,donegal etc be some reward for winning your province!
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Post by buck02 on Jul 5, 2018 10:43:03 GMT
Munster winners and Leinster winners will be in the group together next year AFAIK. I expect at that stage the Croke Park neutral game will have been sorted out and if its Kerry and Dublin in the first Super 8 game, then it'll be in Thurles.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 5, 2018 11:19:11 GMT
Munster winners and Leinster winners will be in the group together next year AFAIK. I expect at that stage the Croke Park neutral game will have been sorted out and if its Kerry and Dublin in the first Super 8 game, then it'll be in Thurles. Would the dublin posters like a home and away arrangement i wonder between dublin and kerry for super 8 games between provincial champs..... both counties look like they will win the next 10 provincial championship by the way things are shaping up..... so why give Thurles the economic boost every time this fixture occurs
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Post by buck02 on Jul 5, 2018 11:53:56 GMT
Munster winners and Leinster winners will be in the group together next year AFAIK. I expect at that stage the Croke Park neutral game will have been sorted out and if its Kerry and Dublin in the first Super 8 game, then it'll be in Thurles. Would the dublin posters like a home and away arrangement i wonder between dublin and kerry for super 8 games between provincial champs..... both counties look like they will win the next 10 provincial championship by the way things are shaping up..... so why give Thurles the economic boost every time this fixture occurs Neither Dublin or Killarney would need an economic boost during July or August!
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Post by dc84 on Jul 5, 2018 11:55:19 GMT
Its not as if Thurles doesnt get enough games! Id say dublin would be ameanable to that be some craic every six years! Really help us build a new stand and finish the scoreboard end. On that i hope they make the scoreboard end like the old nally stand could be used exclusively for kids oaps and disabled.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 5, 2018 12:03:13 GMT
It is also the way in which Dublin get the hill for their fans, the familiar dressingroom and warm up in front of their fans - its the overall package of comforts accorded to Dublin when playing in Croke Park. If Croke Park is a neutral venue then it should be very obviously a neutral venue. Heard someone broach this on a podcast some time ago with the Croke Park Stadium director. If i am paraphrasing correctly he said dressing rooms are allocated on an alphabetical basis. But the reason Dublin always get the same ones is that they are always top billing / most often a standalone fixture. The dressing rooms are allocted based on the Irish county name so Dublin are Áth CLiath. Dont know what dressing rooms they used again Armagh in the 00's
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Post by dc84 on Jul 5, 2018 12:12:04 GMT
It is also the way in which Dublin get the hill for their fans, the familiar dressingroom and warm up in front of their fans - its the overall package of comforts accorded to Dublin when playing in Croke Park. If Croke Park is a neutral venue then it should be very obviously a neutral venue. Heard someone broach this on a podcast some time ago with the Croke Park Stadium director. If i am paraphrasing correctly he said dressing rooms are allocated on an alphabetical basis. But the reason Dublin always get the same ones is that they are always top billing / most often a standalone fixture. The dressing rooms are allocted based on the Irish county name so Dublin are Áth CLiath. Dont know what dressing rooms they used again Armagh in the 00's Same dressing room
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Post by buck02 on Jul 5, 2018 12:45:10 GMT
It is also the way in which Dublin get the hill for their fans, the familiar dressingroom and warm up in front of their fans - its the overall package of comforts accorded to Dublin when playing in Croke Park. If Croke Park is a neutral venue then it should be very obviously a neutral venue. Heard someone broach this on a podcast some time ago with the Croke Park Stadium director. If i am paraphrasing correctly he said dressing rooms are allocated on an alphabetical basis. But the reason Dublin always get the same ones is that they are always top billing / most often a standalone fixture. The dressing rooms are allocted based on the Irish county name so Dublin are Áth CLiath. Dont know what dressing rooms they used again Armagh in the 00's If the Irish for Dublin was Záth Cliath I presume they would use backwards alphabetical order then.
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 6, 2018 5:29:07 GMT
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (Dublin playing two games in Croke Park); the courage to change the things I can (Dublin's dominance in the Championship); and the wisdom to tell the difference!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 6, 2018 7:00:22 GMT
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (Dublin playing two games in Croke Park); the courage to change the things I can (Dublin's dominance in the Championship); and the wisdom to tell the difference! Dublin have natural advantages and these are those which cannot and should not be changed. Compounding these natural advantages by giving them two games in Croke Park in the Super 8s is questionable. You should be wise enough now to see the difference 😎
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 6, 2018 8:13:32 GMT
"I have a dream that one day the GAA will treat all counties equally and judge them, not my the colour of their money, but by the content of their football".
Martin Luther King ...more or less
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 6, 2018 8:18:26 GMT
Should ask Michael O Leary (aka Mr Ryanair) to build us a new super stadium - guaranteed to be in the middle of nowhere and at least 50 miles from anywhere......
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 6, 2018 10:26:20 GMT
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (Dublin playing two games in Croke Park); the courage to change the things I can (Dublin's dominance in the Championship); and the wisdom to tell the difference! Dublin have natural advantages and these are those which cannot and should not be changed. Compounding these natural advantages by giving them two games in Croke Park in the Super 8s is questionable. You should be wise enough now to see the difference 😎 The CP situation this year can't/won't be changed. That may be questionable but not changeable. To paraphrase Clint Eastwood: A wise man knows the limitations. 😉
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 6, 2018 10:48:04 GMT
Dublin have natural advantages and these are those which cannot and should not be changed. Compounding these natural advantages by giving them two games in Croke Park in the Super 8s is questionable. You should be wise enough now to see the difference 😎 The CP situation this year can't/won't be changed. That may be questionable but not changeable. To paraphrase Clint Eastwood: A wise man knows the limitations. 😉 As for Mayo fans, there's always next year.
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Post by jackiel on Jul 6, 2018 22:12:41 GMT
Heard someone broach this on a podcast some time ago with the Croke Park Stadium director. If i am paraphrasing correctly he said dressing rooms are allocated on an alphabetical basis. But the reason Dublin always get the same ones is that they are always top billing / most often a standalone fixture. The dressing rooms are allocted based on the Irish county name so Dublin are Áth CLiath. Dont know what dressing rooms they used again Armagh in the 00's If the Irish for Dublin was Záth Cliath I presume they would use backwards alphabetical order then. I'm watching a recording of Dublin u20s v Kildare. Every mention of Dublin "as Gaeilge" in commentary is Bla Cliath (excuse my attempt at phonetics) which I take to be the conversational pronunciation of Baile Atha Cliath. Can some of the more educated among you explain then how the Baile has been lost. I am also pretty certain that the initials BAC featured just below the collar on the back of Dublin jerseys not that very long ago( maybe they still do ).
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keane
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Post by keane on Jul 6, 2018 22:28:13 GMT
Baile is town so I guess BÁC technically refers to Dublin City.
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Post by bomberliston on Jul 6, 2018 23:22:39 GMT
What's the thinking and application behind the actual fixture/venue? Most likely, f**k all thinking. The GAA, a bunch of amateurs!!!
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Post by bomberliston on Jul 6, 2018 23:37:08 GMT
I often wonder if I'm alone in being a passionate supporter of Gaelic Games but conflicted due to my frustration at the associations arrogance, incompetence, greed etc and so on and on and on...
I would love to see a Rugby League style breakaway. 20 professional, 'franchises' spread evenly across the country and given same resources. Plus, no conservative 66% nonsense. Get things done quickly and efficiently. Also, dump all the dreary pomp and circumstance. Parades, national anthems, etc.
All you are left with is the sport, stripped down to the bare bones. I'd love to see it.
It'll never happen.
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Post by bomberliston on Jul 6, 2018 23:39:07 GMT
I often wonder if I'm alone in being a passionate supporter of Gaelic Games but conflicted due to my frustration at the associations arrogance, incompetence, greed etc and so on and on and on... I would love to see a Rugby League style breakaway. 20 professional, 'franchises' spread evenly across the country and given same resources. Plus, no conservative 66% nonsense. Get things done quickly and efficiently. Also, dump all the dreary pomp and circumstance. Parades, national anthems, etc. All you are left with is the sport, stripped down to the bare bones. I'd love to see it. It'll never happen. Please don't shoot me, just thinking about an alternative universe and 'what if'.... I still love following Kerry and going to matches but I'd love to make a few changes to the 'system', we all would...
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 7, 2018 6:17:29 GMT
If the Irish for Dublin was Záth Cliath I presume they would use backwards alphabetical order then. I'm watching a recording of Dublin u20s v Kildare. Every mention of Dublin "as Gaeilge" in commentary is Bla Cliath (excuse my attempt at phonetics) which I take to be the conversational pronunciation of Baile Atha Cliath. Can some of the more educated among you explain then how the Baile has been lost. I am also pretty certain that the initials BAC featured just below the collar on the back of Dublin jerseys not that very long ago( maybe they still do ). Ath Cliath is the county and Baile is the county town. Maybe it should be shortened to Cliath and then they would come behind Ciarrai! There is a precedent wth the likes of An Dun and An Clar having to go with the second word. (Apologies for the absence of fadas)
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Post by taibhse on Jul 7, 2018 8:20:18 GMT
Hold the ALT key depressed and that will give you fadas. (just being helpful - nothing more)
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 7, 2018 8:24:33 GMT
GAA set to revisit Dublin's 'home' games at Super 8s stage Matter will be reviewed by Central Council, following submissions, at the end of the season Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 06:00 Ian O'Riordan
As unlikely as the chances were of their challenge being upheld, the Donegal County Board have succeeded in stirring up the issue of Dublin playing the majority of their future championship games at Croke Park – that being considered their home or neutral venue.
As a result of Donegal’s meeting with senior GAA officials on Thursday morning, Central Council will later this year review the situation whereby all the first round games in the Super 8s All-Ireland football quarter-finals are played at Croke Park, as is the case next weekend. Donegal will face Dublin on the Saturday evening, July 14th, before playing away again and then at home for their next two games.
Dublin will play one game away the following weekend (against either Cork Páirc Uí Chaoimh or Tyrone in Omagh, depending on who emerges from this Saturday’s round four qualifier) but will be back in Croke Park for their third game or ‘home’ game, on August 4th/5th, against either Roscommon or Armagh, who meet this Saturday evening in the fourth round football qualifier.
Donegal had sought clarification on how any county “may use a ground as both neutral and a home venue”, and in a statement said the “intention of the meeting is to ensure a level playing field for every team who will qualify for the All-Ireland quarter-final group stage” and ensure that “no team has any advantage over any other team”.
After the meeting with senior GAA officials, which included director general Tom Ryan, a statement from Croke Park confirmed that the matter would be reviewed at the end of the season. But under the current championship structure, passed into rule at Congress 2017 after a 76 per cent to 24 per cent favourable vote, all first round games of the Super 8s were already scheduled for Croke Park
“It was accepted as part of these discussions, that the rules in relation to the new All-Ireland SFC quarter-final round robin system had been democratically adopted at Congress 2017 and that these provided for all Round 1 games to be played at Croke Park and each county to subsequently have one home and one away game.
“While Donegal challenged how any team could nominate Croke Park as their home venue, it was acknowledged that there was nothing in rule to prohibit this.”
Dublin’s “home” stance at Croke Park is strengthened by the fact they’ve played all but three of their championship games there over the past 12 years –travelling to Nowlan Park and then Portlaoise for the last three years for the opening games of the Leinster football championship.
However, Donegal have put the onus on Central Council to review the situation later in the year, once all counties have submitted their observations. The Super 8s stage was introduced on a three-year trial basis, but is open to some review at the end of year one.
Double-header That was confirmed by the GAA: “Donegal also requested in light of the issues they highlighted, that a review of the first year of the new championship structures be held by Central Council later in the year and that all counties be invited to submit their observations in this context.
“It was agreed that the issues highlighted by Donegal would be considered as part of this process and that if Central Council collectively felt that non-structural changes to aspects of the Championship were required, that these could be put to Annual Congress in 2019 for consideration.”
So, as scheduled, all four opening fixtures in the Super 8s will be played at Croke Park, with Kerry’s Group A game against Galway going head-to-head with the World Cup final on Sunday week, July 15th, with a 4pm throw-in.
Dublin’s opening game against Donegal in Group B will be played as a double-header with one of the other opening phase one games (to be played at 5.0pm), to be confirmed on Monday; likewise the Kerry-Galway game, will also be played as a double-header with one of the other opening phase one games (to be played at 2pm). Joining Kerry and Galway in Group A will be the winners of Fermanagh/Kildare, and Laois/Monaghan.
Despite some speculation the GAA had been requested to reconsider that clash with the World Cup final, according to a spokesperson for Croke Park, “there will be no movement on that”.
While each of the Super-8s teams are entitled to one home game, the issue last week to originally fix Kildare’s round three qualifier against Mayo for Croke Park, despite Kildare being entitled to home advantage at St Conleth’s Park, may yet have some implications.
Originally it was decided St Conleth’s Park didn’t meet health and safety concerns, only for the GAA to reverse that decision on the basis of extra stewarding and traffic management: according to the GAA rule on the Super-8s, these “home venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) and shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee.”
Kildare will find themselves in those quarter-final stages is they get over Fermanagh in Navan on Saturday evening.
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Post by ballynamona on Jul 7, 2018 9:29:09 GMT
I often wonder if I'm alone in being a passionate supporter of Gaelic Games but conflicted due to my frustration at the associations arrogance, incompetence, greed etc and so on and on and on... I would love to see a Rugby League style breakaway. 20 professional, 'franchises' spread evenly across the country and given same resources. Plus, no conservative 66% nonsense. Get things done quickly and efficiently. Also, dump all the dreary pomp and circumstance. Parades, national anthems, etc. All you are left with is the sport, stripped down to the bare bones. I'd love to see it. It'll never happen. Please don't shoot me, just thinking about an alternative universe and 'what if'.... I still love following Kerry and going to matches but I'd love to make a few changes to the 'system', we all would... You raise a good point. Just what is the future of the GAA? The top brass clearly believe in the survival of the fittest/elitist model. Where the leading and wealthiest can pull away from the others. The Sky Sports deal is a great example. I firmly believe that is antithetical to the ethos of the GAA. Group stages are a great idea, but confining them to the top 8 counties is unfair. We already have a 4-tiered NFL. I posted before about the possibility of a breakaway, i.e. a professional set-up (maybe with some teams as semi-pro) completely divorcing itself from the club game. It is not such a crazy idea. It is compatible with the values of those who currently run they GAA; the values demonstrable from their actions, if not their words. The only question really is would it be like Rugby Union, i.e. done in a quite controlled fashion, where you have a number of professional franchises, which remain under the auspices of the IRFU. Or would it be like Darts, with two parallel championships? I know some people reading may roll their eyes.
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