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Post by dc84 on Sept 5, 2018 20:17:04 GMT
The disappointment of the final is magnified by the fact that Dublin were never put to the pin of their collar in any game. That is down to the brilliance of Dublin. At least in 04,06,07 Kerry had some very tight games even if the final failed to excite the neutral. Would agree. Got a bit uncomfortable in Omagh for a few mins but overall it was a stress free year. Could also have done without Philly giving a pen away on Sunday. Hard to know what to make of it all going forward. Feels a bit surreal to look around at traditional challengers to see they have their own issues before they are in a position to seriously go after Dublin. But it only takes a couple of things to go off kilter and all bets are off again. Cluxton retirement, Fenton or Kilkenny long term injury really throws the cat among the pigeons. Of the three mentioned i think fenton is the only real irreplaceable. If someone said ye would start an ai final without connolly, brogan×2, o sullivan on one leg, no rory o carroll, mcauley flynn, and mcmanamon you wouldnt have thought it possible. Even if they dont add any new players in the next four years hard to see much of a slip.comerford is a good goalie would start for kerry, Connolly probably back next year one or two from the u20s and maybe someone like mchugh stepping up. No one will want to retire on that team now anyway with the 5 in a row a cert only cluxton, mcauley, flynn, brogan and o sullivan at that stage now anyway. Its funny im hearing it in work now Dublin people are trying to convince themselves and us culchies that oh mayo will be back kerry are coming galway etc. Id be shocked if the margin wasnt bigger next year Kerry wouldve been slaughtered this year if we played ye. Im not being defeatest just honest i still thing we can win one in next 3-4 years but it will take that long id say.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 7:37:59 GMT
rashers...2009 is a good comparison to last sunday. I dont think i ever rewatched the 04 06 and 07 finals. The best games from that period with Kerry were 06 v Armagh, 07 v Dublin and several games v Cork and the 05 and 08 finals. Anyway i think you might become more objective about Mayo as time moves on especially if Dublin pull further away from the pack. I am objective about them, they performed brilliantly in the finals of 16 and 17, and were very unlucky in the 16 drawn game. Their performances in those games compared to Tyrone last Sunday proves what a high level they achieved when they put it all together against a team they clearly thrived on playing. It also shows what a strong coaching team can achieve. None of the above changes/debunks my opinions as previously expressed about the other stuff around Mayo, some of which clearly wasn't their own doing but at the same time was never challenged by them, if anything they seemed to lap it up as a way of helping their quest. One of the things they badly need is better management of media and players' profile.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 7:42:50 GMT
Would agree. Got a bit uncomfortable in Omagh for a few mins but overall it was a stress free year. Could also have done without Philly giving a pen away on Sunday. Hard to know what to make of it all going forward. Feels a bit surreal to look around at traditional challengers to see they have their own issues before they are in a position to seriously go after Dublin. But it only takes a couple of things to go off kilter and all bets are off again. Cluxton retirement, Fenton or Kilkenny long term injury really throws the cat among the pigeons. Of the three mentioned i think fenton is the only real irreplaceable. If someone said ye would start an ai final without connolly, brogan×2, o sullivan on one leg, no rory o carroll, mcauley flynn, and mcmanamon you wouldnt have thought it possible. Even if they dont add any new players in the next four years hard to see much of a slip.comerford is a good goalie would start for kerry, Connolly probably back next year one or two from the u20s and maybe someone like mchugh stepping up. No one will want to retire on that team now anyway with the 5 in a row a cert only cluxton, mcauley, flynn, brogan and o sullivan at that stage now anyway. Its funny im hearing it in work now Dublin people are trying to convince themselves and us culchies that oh mayo will be back kerry are coming galway etc. Id be shocked if the margin wasnt bigger next year Kerry wouldve been slaughtered this year if we played ye. Im not being defeatest just honest i still thing we can win one in next 3-4 years but it will take that long id say. That's what everyone was saying about Kerry and their challengers in 1982. Nobody gave Offaly a chance. There are more games these days, meaning more possibility of a slip-up. Yes Kerry came back to win another 3 but they had serious contests in 85 and 86.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 7:58:00 GMT
Kerry grew old together. Dublins average age is falling.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 6, 2018 7:58:35 GMT
Of the three mentioned i think fenton is the only real irreplaceable. If someone said ye would start an ai final without connolly, brogan×2, o sullivan on one leg, no rory o carroll, mcauley flynn, and mcmanamon you wouldnt have thought it possible. Even if they dont add any new players in the next four years hard to see much of a slip.comerford is a good goalie would start for kerry, Connolly probably back next year one or two from the u20s and maybe someone like mchugh stepping up. No one will want to retire on that team now anyway with the 5 in a row a cert only cluxton, mcauley, flynn, brogan and o sullivan at that stage now anyway. Its funny im hearing it in work now Dublin people are trying to convince themselves and us culchies that oh mayo will be back kerry are coming galway etc. Id be shocked if the margin wasnt bigger next year Kerry wouldve been slaughtered this year if we played ye. Im not being defeatest just honest i still thing we can win one in next 3-4 years but it will take that long id say. That's what everyone was saying about Kerry and their challengers in 1982. Nobody gave Offaly a chance. There are more games these days, meaning more possibility of a slip-up. Yes Kerry came back to win another 3 but they had serious contests in 85 and 86. The Back Door and Super 8s means a team can lose two games and go on to win the AI.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 8:00:25 GMT
Not for the competing counties nor the more objective eye it wasn't. And Tyrone did alot right. Considering they really lack for top quality forwards of the type you need 2 or 3 of to win Sam they did most other things to a very high standard. Their tactics were way ahead of last year. If Morgan was a bit more reliable they would have everything except the extra level in the forwards. It wasn't close enough to match the recent two finals but it had alot of great football, was highly competitive, and was well ahead in terms of watchability of finals such as 04, 06, and 07. It was similar to 09, a 'good' final. I thought 09 was poor as was 14,15 and to a lesser extent 11 . 00 v galway both games were excellent 05 and 08 were good too imo nothing to do with results either! Last 2 years were excellent also. This years was just as bad as 04,06,07 in my objective opinon for the neutral. Some great scores etc by one team who were a class above their oposition. Also on tyrone i think they are much the same as the last time we played them in 15, shaky goalie, fit , organised, but with no really good scoring forward so they just need 5-6 new top quality players and they will be able to match Dublin. Ie new goalie (he wont improve) total new ff line a centre forward a better midfielder. Easily done 😀 09 was a good contest, just that we all knew Kerry would win and Cork never looked like taking it to the wire. I agree this years final only served to show how good the last two were. I wouldn't write Morgan off, Cluxton had been goaly for several years in 2007 when the same things were being said about him. It helps when you're team gets better and you have some brilliant, innovative coaches. People only started talking of him as being a great goaly after 2013 really, by which stage he was over 30. Tyrone would be better with a younger, brilliant coach.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 8:01:08 GMT
Kerry grew old together. Dublins average age is falling. Kerry didn't grow old in 82 or 83
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 8:08:12 GMT
That's what everyone was saying about Kerry and their challengers in 1982. Nobody gave Offaly a chance. There are more games these days, meaning more possibility of a slip-up. Yes Kerry came back to win another 3 but they had serious contests in 85 and 86. The Back Door and Super 8s means a team can lose two games and go on to win the AI. True but also goes for all teams. If we had Mayo at last years level in this years Super 8 group with Dublin, first game and Mayo beat Dublin, suddenly anything can happen in one of the other two games. Anyway looking at the fixtures I expect next year's Nat Lg could well have a different winner. If Monaghan beat us up there you've got the games against Tyrone, Galway, Kerry and Mayo where the opposition, in two cases at least with a new coach, will seriously target a win to start changing the dynamic
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 8:10:11 GMT
Seems like a very subdued run up to this years Final. I haven't been bothered by people looking for tickets this year at all. Rashers/Skyblue what's your take on it. Hi Jackiel. My take on the quietness is that the major factor has to be Mayo nor Kerry being in the final. Kerry of course as they are the pre-eminent county and the great rivalry with ourselves, plus the letdown of their early summer promise not gathering into a late summer crescendo. After the games in Munster and especially the thrilling evisceration of Cork in their all-new stadium the media and many neutrals were very sold on not just a huge Kerry challenge for Sam but also a mouthwatering prospect of all-out great skillful attacking football. Kerry's forward lines in particular were the main talking point for a while there to the point where Brolly even said some of the Dublin forwards wouldn't get into it, and he wasn't talking about O'Gara. Then came the big land of the Galway game and performance, and Kerry never raised a head of steam thereafter. So since that alot of media coverage and general talk went very flat and negative. And then you had the fact that Mayo and their bandwagon have been surrounded by a massive amount of hoopla over the last number of years. It's easy to forget perhaps the huge build-up, tension, and expectation that came with games and especially finals where they are involved. It was all-consuming and there's no doubt they had become the nation's darling team as Paul Kimmage or somebody put it. At times it has been virtually a coronation in waiting phenomenon. I've also never seen support like it, their ability to get hold of and corner the market for non-competing senior county tickets for finals was extraordinary. In 2013 they were fully expected to win, they had done their apprenticeship the previous two years, they had already beaten that Dublin team, and the concensus was they only needed to not concede early goals. They couldn't possibly lose two finals in a row again. And Dublin had a new and unproven coach and several young, unproven players, who in fact mostly did not play well on the day. And Kerry had exposed many defensive flaws in the semifinal, during which Gooch gave an exhibition of the finest 35 minutes of attacking football ever seen. And they got the perfect start to the final, and even after Dublin had put in a massive effort to get back and take the lead, Andy Moran's goal at a vital stage should have driven them home to victory. Instead they flagged and were run ragged around the middle. They should have lost by more but for Dublin being down to 12 or 13 fit players in the last 10 minutes. For me at that stage it was crystal clear that Mayo team just weren't good enough to win Sam, and yet the nation went into denial on their behalf and continued to believe and hope. Then came the dramas and tragedies of their semifinal defeats in 14 and 15. Much has been made of 'what ifs' around the games with Kerry but ask oneself the following, if they had beaten Kerry would they have beaten Donegal, not including the evidence of the previous year when a still-partying Donegal squad failed to show up at all? I very much doubt it and I'm any case their defeat to Kerry itself was yet another example of their chronic endemic culture of defeatism, delusion, denial, self-destruction,and excuses. This in itself seemed only to fuel the national soap operatic fairytale that went in their wake. Never once were they called out for their overall decline in standards of performance through the whole year since Rochford took over bar the last two games of summer as they were given excuse after excuse and free passes galore in order to try to land the big one. It had become a national obsession. Not to mention that crazy, chaotic road to the final they traversed in the last two years. The nation is both completely in withdrawals and in mourning for Mayo. Abd lastly you had the World Cup, very successful Irish rugby teams, and a great hurling championship. All factors in the general populice's sense of ennui and apathy. I think it's a pity that Monaghan didn't get through as that at least would have provided the fairytale, a huge buzz and thrill around their supporters, and probably a high-scoring and attacking final. Despite a gap of 10 years Tyrone seem like a world-weary and not enthralled County to be in the Final, even allowing for the big letdown of last year's semifinal. They should at least be revelling in the role of such big underdogs, a place that MH always loves to be. I foresee a cracking contest and wouldn't rule out a draw. If Dublin are in any way flat(and they haven't had to go near the well barely once all summer) or soft/sated then Tyrone have a right chance here. Personally speaking I've not enjoyed a buildup to a final more, the lack of hoopla and external nonsense and national sense of mission and entitlement surrounding Mayo had long ago become suffocating and insufferable. Hopefully tomorrow is nearly all about football and a celebration for both counties and the whole country on All Ireland final day. so with the benefit of hindsight and with SAM safely in the capital, you are happy to stand over that stuff about Mayo. It wasnt their fault that the nation took them to their hearts ( a few on here excepted). About 20 are based 200 away from Mayo so they were only ever going to be able to reach a high level once during the year. Was the hoopla for a Dublin win in 2011 any less.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 8:13:09 GMT
The Back Door and Super 8s means a team can lose two games and go on to win the AI. True but also goes for all teams. If we had Mayo at last years level in this years Super 8 group with Dublin, first game and Mayo beat Dublin, suddenly anything can happen in one of the other two games. Anyway looking at the fixtures I expect next year's Nat Lg could well have a different winner. If Monaghan beat us up there you've got the games against Tyrone, Galway, Kerry and Mayo where the opposition, in two cases at least with a new coach, will seriously target a win to start changing the dynamic If the backdoor and super 8 were there in 1983 Kerry would have another 4 in a row probably.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 8:23:44 GMT
The Back Door and Super 8s means a team can lose two games and go on to win the AI. True but also goes for all teams. If we had Mayo at last years level in this years Super 8 group with Dublin, first game and Mayo beat Dublin, suddenly anything can happen in one of the other two games. Anyway looking at the fixtures I expect next year's Nat Lg could well have a different winner. If Monaghan beat us up there you've got the games against Tyrone, Galway, Kerry and Mayo where the opposition, in two cases at least with a new coach, will seriously target a win to start changing the dynamic ah rashers will you stop please. No one buys your ould bull*. The game is up and you know it. Even skybluezone gets it i think. The ennui is clear from blue panthers post final post. Your Holiness signalled his long term concern for the game here last year to his eternal credit. So stop trying to drum up a sense of competiveness for next year. We are not fools.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 8:45:10 GMT
Thinkering with the kickout won't close the widening gap as Dublin pull away. They are moving to a place now where they can succeed without Cluxton, same as BB, DC, PF, PA etc. The sum of all Dublin's part are far more potent than the loss of obsolete individual players from the setup. I was talking about trying to retain high fielding as a core skill in the game. Not about stopping Dublin. Dublin would still be the best at high fielding anyway...Fenton and McCarthy. I saw some great high fielding on Sunday. What's gone from the very top level of football, for now, is most of the aimless lamping hit and hopes into a crowd of players. Yes it's exciting when a Donaghy catches and sets up a goal but it's hardly ever an outcome like that and ambitious teams and coaches want to do much smarter things. I mean seriously, when Kerry were lamping it in desperately in the last 10 minutes of the 2015 final did you not cringe in pain? And talk about the 'penalty' claim for ever and a day but this is a serious discussion. Contrast that passage of play with what a more outclassed Kerry team managed to do in the second half in 2016. Apart from some errors they played great attacking football the Kerry way and had Dublin on the ropes at 3 behind in the last 10 minutes. With a younger, better team they could have won that game no doubt. Donaghy was already over the hill and on one leg.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 6, 2018 8:45:27 GMT
The only changing dynamic would be to rename the Sam Maguire to the Bertie Bowl..............
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 8:56:12 GMT
Hi Jackiel. My take on the quietness is that the major factor has to be Mayo nor Kerry being in the final. Kerry of course as they are the pre-eminent county and the great rivalry with ourselves, plus the letdown of their early summer promise not gathering into a late summer crescendo. After the games in Munster and especially the thrilling evisceration of Cork in their all-new stadium the media and many neutrals were very sold on not just a huge Kerry challenge for Sam but also a mouthwatering prospect of all-out great skillful attacking football. Kerry's forward lines in particular were the main talking point for a while there to the point where Brolly even said some of the Dublin forwards wouldn't get into it, and he wasn't talking about O'Gara. Then came the big land of the Galway game and performance, and Kerry never raised a head of steam thereafter. So since that alot of media coverage and general talk went very flat and negative. And then you had the fact that Mayo and their bandwagon have been surrounded by a massive amount of hoopla over the last number of years. It's easy to forget perhaps the huge build-up, tension, and expectation that came with games and especially finals where they are involved. It was all-consuming and there's no doubt they had become the nation's darling team as Paul Kimmage or somebody put it. At times it has been virtually a coronation in waiting phenomenon. I've also never seen support like it, their ability to get hold of and corner the market for non-competing senior county tickets for finals was extraordinary. In 2013 they were fully expected to win, they had done their apprenticeship the previous two years, they had already beaten that Dublin team, and the concensus was they only needed to not concede early goals. They couldn't possibly lose two finals in a row again. And Dublin had a new and unproven coach and several young, unproven players, who in fact mostly did not play well on the day. And Kerry had exposed many defensive flaws in the semifinal, during which Gooch gave an exhibition of the finest 35 minutes of attacking football ever seen. And they got the perfect start to the final, and even after Dublin had put in a massive effort to get back and take the lead, Andy Moran's goal at a vital stage should have driven them home to victory. Instead they flagged and were run ragged around the middle. They should have lost by more but for Dublin being down to 12 or 13 fit players in the last 10 minutes. For me at that stage it was crystal clear that Mayo team just weren't good enough to win Sam, and yet the nation went into denial on their behalf and continued to believe and hope. Then came the dramas and tragedies of their semifinal defeats in 14 and 15. Much has been made of 'what ifs' around the games with Kerry but ask oneself the following, if they had beaten Kerry would they have beaten Donegal, not including the evidence of the previous year when a still-partying Donegal squad failed to show up at all? I very much doubt it and I'm any case their defeat to Kerry itself was yet another example of their chronic endemic culture of defeatism, delusion, denial, self-destruction,and excuses. This in itself seemed only to fuel the national soap operatic fairytale that went in their wake. Never once were they called out for their overall decline in standards of performance through the whole year since Rochford took over bar the last two games of summer as they were given excuse after excuse and free passes galore in order to try to land the big one. It had become a national obsession. Not to mention that crazy, chaotic road to the final they traversed in the last two years. The nation is both completely in withdrawals and in mourning for Mayo. Abd lastly you had the World Cup, very successful Irish rugby teams, and a great hurling championship. All factors in the general populice's sense of ennui and apathy. I think it's a pity that Monaghan didn't get through as that at least would have provided the fairytale, a huge buzz and thrill around their supporters, and probably a high-scoring and attacking final. Despite a gap of 10 years Tyrone seem like a world-weary and not enthralled County to be in the Final, even allowing for the big letdown of last year's semifinal. They should at least be revelling in the role of such big underdogs, a place that MH always loves to be. I foresee a cracking contest and wouldn't rule out a draw. If Dublin are in any way flat(and they haven't had to go near the well barely once all summer) or soft/sated then Tyrone have a right chance here. Personally speaking I've not enjoyed a buildup to a final more, the lack of hoopla and external nonsense and national sense of mission and entitlement surrounding Mayo had long ago become suffocating and insufferable. Hopefully tomorrow is nearly all about football and a celebration for both counties and the whole country on All Ireland final day. so with the benefit of hindsight and with SAM safely in the capital, you are happy to stand over that stuff about Mayo. It wasnt their fault that the nation took them to their hearts ( a few on here excepted). About 20 are based 200 away from Mayo so they were only ever going to be able to reach a high level once during the year. Was the hoopla for a Dublin win in 2011 any less. I did say some things were out of their control to some extent, and qualified that. Your response to that please? You're just making the same excuses for them. Aiming at one big game performance a year in effect, two at a push, is making a mockery of the competitions. Monaghan who have much less pick than Mayo have done better in the league the last two years. Galway have done much better in Connaught and better in the league this year. Galway are a dual county with currently their hurling team at the peak of a very strong era. What Mayo have attempted has ultimately not helped them, it has taken away from their foundations and their development for the future, even in the short term. They sacrificed too much in short-term pursuit. They also brought cynicism in games to a new level starting in 2012. Any other team/County had done that they would rightly have been lambasted. They were lauded and awarded with POTY for a player who while he was an unarguably great player spent half his time dragging out of his main opponents. It makes me laugh when the same people who have lauded Mayo and who utterly refused to say a bad word about Keegan then turn around and talk about the problems of the game etc. Double standards will never a serious discussion make.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 8:56:14 GMT
I was talking about trying to retain high fielding as a core skill in the game. Not about stopping Dublin. Dublin would still be the best at high fielding anyway...Fenton and McCarthy. I saw some great high fielding on Sunday. What's gone from the very top level of football, for now, is most of the aimless lamping hit and hopes into a crowd of players. Yes it's exciting when a Donaghy catches and sets up a goal but it's hardly ever an outcome like that and ambitious teams and coaches want to do much smarter things. I mean seriously, when Kerry were lamping it in desperately in the last 10 minutes of the 2015 final did you not cringe in pain? And talk about the 'penalty' claim for ever and a day but this is a serious discussion. Contrast that passage of play with what a more outclassed Kerry team managed to do in the second half in 2016. Apart from some errors they played great attacking football the Kerry way and had Dublin on the ropes at 3 behind in the last 10 minutes. With a younger, better team they could have won that game no doubt. Donaghy was already over the hill and on one leg. the discussion and draft proposals are about kickouts.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 9:01:45 GMT
so with the benefit of hindsight and with SAM safely in the capital, you are happy to stand over that stuff about Mayo. It wasnt their fault that the nation took them to their hearts ( a few on here excepted). About 20 are based 200 away from Mayo so they were only ever going to be able to reach a high level once during the year. Was the hoopla for a Dublin win in 2011 any less. I did say some things were out of their control to some extent, and qualified that. Your response to that please? You're just making the same excuses for them. Aiming at one big game performance a year in effect, two at a push, is making a mockery of the competitions. Monaghan who have much less pick than Mayo have done better in the league the last two years. Galway have done much better in Connaught and better in the league this year. Galway are a dual county with currently their hurling team at the peak of a very strong era. What Mayo have attempted has ultimately not helped them, it has taken away from their foundations and their development for the future, even in the short term. They sacrificed too much in short-term pursuit. They also brought cynicism in games to a new level starting in 2012. Any other team/County had done that they would rightly have been lambasted. They were lauded and awarded with POTY for a player who while he was an unarguably great player spent half his time dragging out of his main opponents. It makes me laugh when the same people who have lauded Mayo and who utterly refused to say a bad word about Keegan then turn around and talk about the problems of the game etc. Double standards will never a serious discussion make. They didnt persuade their Mayo Taoiseach to put €1m a year from the taxpayer into the MayoforSam effort. Now away with you and stop annoying us.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 9:05:24 GMT
True but also goes for all teams. If we had Mayo at last years level in this years Super 8 group with Dublin, first game and Mayo beat Dublin, suddenly anything can happen in one of the other two games. Anyway looking at the fixtures I expect next year's Nat Lg could well have a different winner. If Monaghan beat us up there you've got the games against Tyrone, Galway, Kerry and Mayo where the opposition, in two cases at least with a new coach, will seriously target a win to start changing the dynamic ah rashers will you stop please. No one buys your ould bull*. The game is up and you know it. Even skybluezone gets it i think. The ennui is clear from blue panthers post final post. Your Holiness signalled his long term concern for the game here last year to his eternal credit. So stop trying to drum up a sense of competiveness for next year. We are not fools. Mick you don't have to go personal every time you hear or read something you don't like. Lazy analysis and populist clichés are a handy drum to beat but I sincerely hope and expect Kerry's new coaching team to harbour none of the defeatist victim mentality mantra that gets trotted out ad nauseum by some who claim to have the best interests of their county or Mayo or the game of football or the GAA at heart when clearly all they have at heart is a losers agenda. And this began long before any Dublin domination began. It was as soon as one era ended and Dublin stopped fulfilling the sumptuous dessert role for the winners and great teams and lip-service merchants of the previous 15 years.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 9:08:42 GMT
I saw some great high fielding on Sunday. What's gone from the very top level of football, for now, is most of the aimless lamping hit and hopes into a crowd of players. Yes it's exciting when a Donaghy catches and sets up a goal but it's hardly ever an outcome like that and ambitious teams and coaches want to do much smarter things. I mean seriously, when Kerry were lamping it in desperately in the last 10 minutes of the 2015 final did you not cringe in pain? And talk about the 'penalty' claim for ever and a day but this is a serious discussion. Contrast that passage of play with what a more outclassed Kerry team managed to do in the second half in 2016. Apart from some errors they played great attacking football the Kerry way and had Dublin on the ropes at 3 behind in the last 10 minutes. With a younger, better team they could have won that game no doubt. Donaghy was already over the hill and on one leg. the discussion and draft proposals are about kickouts. And my post was in response to your plea about saving the high catch. Still waiting for some actual responses to points made Mick. Now away with you and your lazy one-liner wind-up merchant schoolyard guff.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 9:17:14 GMT
the discussion and draft proposals are about kickouts. And my post was in response to your plea about saving the high catch. Still waiting for some actual responses to points made Mick. Now away with you and your lazy one-liner wind-up merchant schoolyard guff. I fear another preadolescence emotional outburst so i wont engage with you further.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 6, 2018 9:23:42 GMT
And my post was in response to your plea about saving the high catch. Still waiting for some actual responses to points made Mick. Now away with you and your lazy one-liner wind-up merchant schoolyard guff. I fear another preadolescence emotional outburst so i wont engage with you further. You refused to engage in debate, you changed all efforts at debate into a wind-up based on an agenda, you made it personal, and now this. Schoolyard. Let others tell you what you want to hear, I'm here for debate. I show you that much respect, to give an honest opinion, which includes challenging yours. Take the fingers out of the ears and stop with the "lah lah lah lah lah".
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 6, 2018 9:31:27 GMT
I thought 09 was poor as was 14,15 and to a lesser extent 11 . 00 v galway both games were excellent 05 and 08 were good too imo nothing to do with results either! Last 2 years were excellent also. This years was just as bad as 04,06,07 in my objective opinon for the neutral. Some great scores etc by one team who were a class above their oposition. Also on tyrone i think they are much the same as the last time we played them in 15, shaky goalie, fit , organised, but with no really good scoring forward so they just need 5-6 new top quality players and they will be able to match Dublin. Ie new goalie (he wont improve) total new ff line a centre forward a better midfielder. Easily done 😀 09 was a good contest, just that we all knew Kerry would win and Cork never looked like taking it to the wire. It would have been nice if someone told us this: my recollection is that 90% of the county was bricking it coming up to that final. Cork had beaten Kerry by eight points earlier that summer.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2018 10:11:48 GMT
Kevin McStay appears to rule himself out of the running for Mayo job.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 12:13:44 GMT
I was talking about trying to retain high fielding as a core skill in the game. Not about stopping Dublin. Dublin would still be the best at high fielding anyway...Fenton and McCarthy. I saw some great high fielding on Sunday. What's gone from the very top level of football, for now, is most of the aimless lamping hit and hopes into a crowd of players. Yes it's exciting when a Donaghy catches and sets up a goal but it's hardly ever an outcome like that and ambitious teams and coaches want to do much smarter things. I mean seriously, when Kerry were lamping it in desperately in the last 10 minutes of the 2015 final did you not cringe in pain? And talk about the 'penalty' claim for ever and a day but this is a serious discussion. Contrast that passage of play with what a more outclassed Kerry team managed to do in the second half in 2016. Apart from some errors they played great attacking football the Kerry way and had Dublin on the ropes at 3 behind in the last 10 minutes. With a younger, better team they could have won that game no doubt. Donaghy was already over the hill and on one leg. Yes the 'penalty' claim in 2015. Thankfully lane punished such a claim last Sunday.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 6, 2018 12:16:14 GMT
Look the long and the short of it is that Dublin have a great team. The players and supporters cant help that. Obviously funding and population are a help. Not on match day etc but, in the years of prep it takes to get there. You have a better chance of finding 15 top class footballers in a population of 1 million plus. Its just maths.
However where I think people are wrong is looking for Dublin to be 'punished' or having funding removed etc. Kevin McStay had some comments on it when he said that the GAA should be funding more counties better. Maybe the simplest solution is to have a fixed amount that can be allocated per registered player.
Looking at Ewan McKenna's article there is a massive disparity between what is allocated on a per capita basis.I also think the fact that all the teams are so poor at the same time Dublin are so good makes the problem look a lot worse.
I think the pick of the rest of the super 8's wouldnt have beaten Dublin this year. At the end of the day they can only put 15 + 6 subs on the field. If we had the same team player for player i dont think we would beat them as our coaching ticket wasnt as strong the last few years. Its here in the extras that go with the coaching that the extra money is being spent. Access to better S&C, facilities in DCU, lifestyle coach etc. Dinners delivered to your house.
Dublin are using their natural advantages but, also making the most of them. NOw its up to the GAA to pump the same money into every one else.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 6, 2018 12:44:48 GMT
Look the long and the short of it is that Dublin have a great team. The players and supporters cant help that. Obviously funding and population are a help. Not on match day etc but, in the years of prep it takes to get there. You have a better chance of finding 15 top class footballers in a population of 1 million plus. Its just maths. However where I think people are wrong is looking for Dublin to be 'punished' or having funding removed etc. Kevin McStay had some comments on it when he said that the GAA should be funding more counties better. Maybe the simplest solution is to have a fixed amount that can be allocated per registered player. Looking at Ewan McKenna's article there is a massive disparity between what is allocated on a per capita basis.I also think the fact that all the teams are so poor at the same time Dublin are so good makes the problem look a lot worse. I think the pick of the rest of the super 8's wouldnt have beaten Dublin this year. At the end of the day they can only put 15 + 6 subs on the field. If we had the same team player for player i dont think we would beat them as our coaching ticket wasnt as strong the last few years. Its here in the extras that go with the coaching that the extra money is being spent. Access to better S&C, facilities in DCU, lifestyle coach etc. Dinners delivered to your house. Dublin are using their natural advantages but, also making the most of them. NOw its up to the GAA to pump the same money into every one else. I wouldnt agree that the pick of the quarters wouldnt have beaten dublin put beggen mcmanus and murphy/clifford into the tyrone team and it would be interesting i think!
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Post by buck02 on Sept 6, 2018 13:21:36 GMT
Look the long and the short of it is that Dublin have a great team. The players and supporters cant help that. Obviously funding and population are a help. Not on match day etc but, in the years of prep it takes to get there. You have a better chance of finding 15 top class footballers in a population of 1 million plus. Its just maths. However where I think people are wrong is looking for Dublin to be 'punished' or having funding removed etc. Kevin McStay had some comments on it when he said that the GAA should be funding more counties better. Maybe the simplest solution is to have a fixed amount that can be allocated per registered player. Looking at Ewan McKenna's article there is a massive disparity between what is allocated on a per capita basis.I also think the fact that all the teams are so poor at the same time Dublin are so good makes the problem look a lot worse. I think the pick of the rest of the super 8's wouldnt have beaten Dublin this year. At the end of the day they can only put 15 + 6 subs on the field. If we had the same team player for player i dont think we would beat them as our coaching ticket wasnt as strong the last few years. Its here in the extras that go with the coaching that the extra money is being spent. Access to better S&C, facilities in DCU, lifestyle coach etc. Dinners delivered to your house. Dublin are using their natural advantages but, also making the most of them. NOw its up to the GAA to pump the same money into every one else.I get most of what you are saying. But your last sentence, where is the magic money tree that is going to fund all this additional revenue to be pumped into other counties? Dublin County Board pays almost €600k in salaries. Should every county board then have €600k to spend on salaries (this figure does not include Games Developments BTW). Anybody who has ever had to go begging for resources to finance capital projects at club level will know that clubs get very little from the GAA for this. Most money will come from Sports Capital Grants. County grounds all around the country are in dire need of investment and this is where the GAA are focusing resources at the moment. Getting all counties to have the same level as Dublin in terms of resources (or even, the same proportionate to registered players, number of clubs or whatever barometer you would use) is not possible unless resources are pulled from Clubs and Counties infrastructural developments.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Sept 6, 2018 16:42:17 GMT
Rashers and Annascaul:My mistake there. I was referring to 2007 the first time we played Cork in an All Ireland final. Paul Galvin reckoned at the time that our entire football identity was at stake, that if beaten by Cork in a final, it would outshine all the victories over them before that. This run of success by Dublin is dangerously close to a five in a row. There will be an all out campaign in the Kingdom to stop it. Fasinating times ahead for this great rivalry. For the love of God would people stop talking about splitting up Dublin. That would take all the good out of it when we beat them.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 6, 2018 16:54:02 GMT
Rashers and Annascaul:My mistake there. I was referring to 2007 the first time we played Cork in an All Ireland final. P aul Galvin reckoned at the time that our entire football identity was at stake, that if beaten by Cork in a final, it would outshine all the victories over them before that. This run of success by Dublin is dangerously close to a five in a row. There will be an all out campaign in the Kingdom to stop it. Fasinating times ahead for this great rivalry. For the love of God would people stop talking about splitting up Dublin. That would take all the good out of it when we beat them. This was the sentiment I knew you were getting at --- I erroneously thought of 2009.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 6, 2018 20:26:46 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 20:30:47 GMT
MacKenna is scare mongering to some extent but brogan comes across as a simpleton in this piece.
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