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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 2, 2018 20:48:15 GMT
Congratulations to Dublin on retaining the All Ireland and achieving 4-in-row. League Champions as well of course this year so Dublin’s all conquering domination continues without respite. Hard to see this cycle end for some time if we’re being honest. The way they continually regenerate by adding a couple of high quality players each new season is a key factor in ensuring Dublin are going no where.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2018 21:13:22 GMT
Congratulations to Dublin on retaining the All Ireland and achieving 4-in-row. League Champions as well of course this year so Dublin’s all conquering domination continues without respite. Hard to see this cycle end for some time if we’re being honest. The way they continually regenerate by adding a couple of high quality players each new season is a key factor in ensuring Dublin are going no where. The GAA are going to keep pumping money into Dublin until splitting up Dublin becomes inevitable.
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Post by baurtregaum on Sept 2, 2018 22:31:39 GMT
I can envisage a domination over 10 or 12 years similar to Cork ladies recent AI's. Well its been 7 already, the reality is that they will be up there every year very hard to see who will knock them off their perch most of their brst players are realitively young. Kilkenny, mannion o callaghan, mccaffery, howard, scully, murchan, costello all under 25 with the age profile of the rest they need about 3 or 4 in next 2 years and they are good. Which they will obviously will blue tide indeed. The team is getting younger if anything and they are only starting. What was the average age of the 1981 Kerry team? 27ish I would guess. Take Cluxton out of it and this Dublin team are much younger than Kerry in 1981 so they are going nowhere for a long time really. The scary thing is that their starting half forward line today were aged 20, 22 and I think Scully is no more than 23.
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Post by southward on Sept 2, 2018 22:44:18 GMT
Is John Small the first player to be sent off in consecutive AI Finals? Or in any 2 finals, for that matter?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 22:49:08 GMT
Congrats to Dublin. Brilliant performance. Greatest team ever. 5 in a row is looking good. Can't see anyone beating them. When you consider they didn't have Connolly and Brogan it shows you the talent and bench that's there. Their bench was excellent again today.
If they get Connolly and Brogan back and they will probably add another 1 or 2 young players. They will actually be stronger next year.
Remember they won the u21 All Ireland in 2017. Brian Howard, Con O'Callaghan, Eoin Murchan, Colm Basquel, and Paddy Small were on the Team.
They will have 2 or 3 more of them playing in the League next year.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 6:51:17 GMT
Fair play to Dublin, huge achievement.
Too much doom and gloom here about who's going to knock them off there perch.
We've just won an unprecedented five minor titles in a row. We will knock them off there perch. There is no doubt about it in my opinion. Is there a prouder counter with a greater tradition than Kerry in either code? No. We obsess about the game. It's part of our DNA. We have the most knowledgeable people in the game looking after our underage players. Our underage structures are second to none. We will be back because we are Kerry and it's what we do. Let's look to the future and be optimistic about what's ahead of us because I believe it cold be very special.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 3, 2018 7:18:36 GMT
Fair play to Dublin, huge achievement. Too much doom and gloom here about who's going to knock them off there perch. We've just won an unprecedented five minor titles in a row. We will knock them off there perch. There is no doubt about it in my opinion. Is there a prouder counter with a greater tradition than Kerry in either code? No. We obsess about the game. It's part of our DNA. We have the most knowledgeable people in the game looking after our underage players. Our underage structures are second to none. We will be back because we are Kerry and it's what we do. Let's look to the future and be optimistic about what's ahead of us because I believe it cold be very special. Time will tell the conditioning of the dublin team is on another level not sure we have the natural athletes currently or on the way up to compete. We dont seem to produce players like fenton mccarthy Howard or flynn 6ft 1/2 atheletes with every skill also. Anyway best case scenario it turns into a two horse race with everyone else rubbish just like the 70s
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 3, 2018 7:50:47 GMT
Congrats to Dublin and to the Dublin posters on this forum. Fenton is a rolls royce of a player. He's the complete opposite of what we have currently ... dynamic, positive, powerful, athletic ... and a scoring threat. He's player of the year for me.
Tyrone just don't have the forwards but they were game enough and never gave up when it was easy to do so.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2018 8:09:53 GMT
Fair play to Dublin, huge achievement. Too much doom and gloom here about who's going to knock them off there perch. We've just won an unprecedented five minor titles in a row. We will knock them off there perch. There is no doubt about it in my opinion. Is there a prouder counter with a greater tradition than Kerry in either code? No. We obsess about the game. It's part of our DNA. We have the most knowledgeable people in the game looking after our underage players. Our underage structures are second to none. We will be back because we are Kerry and it's what we do. Let's look to the future and be optimistic about what's ahead of us because I believe it cold be very special. Time will tell the conditioning of the dublin team is on another level not sure we have the natural athletes currently or on the way up to compete. We dont seem to produce players like fenton mccarthy Howard or flynn 6ft 1/2 atheletes with every skill also. Anyway best case scenario it turns into a two horse race with everyone else rubbish just like the 70s Pat Spillane said yesterday that Kerry added just one new player during his 4 in a row. Not sure who that was by the way. Dublin have 6 new players already since 2015. The team is getting younger. This is not doom and gloom. Its a fact. The likes of Brian Howard and Murchan were 7 in 2005 when the money started to be poured into Dublin. There should be an endless supply coming on tap from now on. Otherwise the money has been wasted!
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Post by glengael on Sept 3, 2018 8:30:42 GMT
Congratulations to Dublin. Their turnaround in less than a decade from the humiliation of 2009 is astounding, 6 titles in 8 seasons is some consistency. They have integrated new players over the past few years which has been key. I can't see their dominance ending anytime soon.
Whither Tyrone and Mickey Harte, they went one better than 2017, but has this final earned him another year or will someone make a move for change?
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2018 8:49:16 GMT
Fair play to Dublin, huge achievement. Too much doom and gloom here about who's going to knock them off there perch. We've just won an unprecedented five minor titles in a row. We will knock them off there perch. There is no doubt about it in my opinion. Is there a prouder counter with a greater tradition than Kerry in either code? No. We obsess about the game. It's part of our DNA. We have the most knowledgeable people in the game looking after our underage players. Our underage structures are second to none. We will be back because we are Kerry and it's what we do. Let's look to the future and be optimistic about what's ahead of us because I believe it cold be very special. Time will tell the conditioning of the dublin team is on another level not sure we have the natural athletes currently or on the way up to compete. We dont seem to produce players like fenton mccarthy Howard or flynn 6ft 1/2 atheletes with every skill also. Anyway best case scenario it turns into a two horse race with everyone else rubbish just like the 70s That is best best case scenario, worse case scenario is that Mayo & Kerry fall off the cliff and the All-Ireland championship mirrors the Leinster championship for another half decade or more. Regardless, congrats to Dublin. They are consistently and vastly superior to all other teams over the past 5-6 years. Strange atmosphere in Croker yesterday, it was almost anticlimactic at the final whistle.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 3, 2018 9:00:20 GMT
Time will tell the conditioning of the dublin team is on another level not sure we have the natural athletes currently or on the way up to compete. We dont seem to produce players like fenton mccarthy Howard or flynn 6ft 1/2 atheletes with every skill also. Anyway best case scenario it turns into a two horse race with everyone else rubbish just like the 70s Pat Spillane said yesterday that Kerry added just one new player during his 4 in a row. Not sure who that was by the way. Dublin have 6 new players already since 2015. The team is getting younger. This is not doom and gloom. Its a fact. The likes of Brian Howard and Murchan were 7 in 2005 when the money started to be poured into Dublin. There should be an endless supply coming on tap from now on. Otherwise the money has been wasted! Yeah totally agree they will be around that level for at least next 6-7 years if not forever. Big question is can we join them there isnt really much else out there except maybe galway and maybe donegal going by underage of last few years imo the likes of kildare need a few more teams like their u20s this year as they are coming from such a low base at senior level
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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 3, 2018 9:19:11 GMT
Congrats to Dublin and to the Dublin posters on this forum. Fenton is a rolls royce of a player. He's the complete opposite of what we have currently ... dynamic, positive, powerful, athletic ... and a scoring threat. He's player of the year for me. Tyrone just don't have the forwards but they were game enough and never gave up when it was easy to do so. I totally agree. I never thought i would see a player comparable to Jack O'Shea but that's the territory Brian Fenton is now in - what age is he? Only 25, i think!? Frightening, really. We've seen a lot of great midfielders over the years and Darragh was a great one but for me Jack O' was always out on his own until now. I never saw O'Connell play so i can't compare but when I look at Fenton i see another Jack O'. How great can he become? Hard to believe now that Jack Barry played Fenton so well in a league final back in 17' but I doubt that would be repeated as Fenton's game has moved on even further in the last 18 months and player of the year for me too.
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Post by southward on Sept 3, 2018 9:21:30 GMT
Congratulations to Dublin. Their turnaround in less than a decade from the humiliation of 2009 is astounding, 6 titles in 8 seasons is some consistency. They have integrated new players over the past few years which has been key. I can't see their dominance ending anytime soon. Whither Tyrone and Mickey Harte, they went one better than 2017, but has this final earned him another year or will someone make a move for change? Mickey seems to be untouchable up there; probably up to himself when he goes. I'm not sure getting to the final will have any bearing one way or the other. To be honest, I think they were fortunate to get to the final this year; the draw, together with the misfortunes of Kerry & Mayo, worked out nicely for them. Never had to beat a genuine top team to get there, should have gone out early in Navan and got the benefit of a few tight calls in the semi. I think Kerry, misfiring as we were, would have beaten them, maybe Galway too. They were never going to take the Dubs, that's for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 9:32:47 GMT
Time will tell the conditioning of the dublin team is on another level not sure we have the natural athletes currently or on the way up to compete. We dont seem to produce players like fenton mccarthy Howard or flynn 6ft 1/2 atheletes with every skill also. Anyway best case scenario it turns into a two horse race with everyone else rubbish just like the 70s Pat Spillane said yesterday that Kerry added just one new player during his 4 in a row. Not sure who that was by the way. Dublin have 6 new players already since 2015. The team is getting younger. This is not doom and gloom. Its a fact. The likes of Brian Howard and Murchan were 7 in 2005 when the money started to be poured into Dublin. There should be an endless supply coming on tap from now on. Otherwise the money has been wasted! The doom and gloom I'm referring to is not about Dublin football, we all know the rude health it's in. There seems to be an air of doom and gloom around Kerry which is unwarranted. We are producing a lot more talented youngsters than any other county, including Dublin. We have the best underage structures in the country. Donal Daly and co. take a bow. These players will take time to develop physically, but I'm sure a percentage of them will and this coupled with their obvious talents will only bode well for future Kerry teams. I'm a believer, not blindly, based on 'fact'.
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Post by southward on Sept 3, 2018 9:41:37 GMT
Congratulations to Dublin on retaining the All Ireland and achieving 4-in-row. League Champions as well of course this year so Dublin’s all conquering domination continues without respite. Hard to see this cycle end for some time if we’re being honest. The way they continually regenerate by adding a couple of high quality players each new season is a key factor in ensuring Dublin are going no where. The GAA are going to keep pumping money into Dublin until splitting up Dublin becomes inevitable. Splitting Dublin can't, and shouldn't, be contemplated unless and until there's a demand for it from within. Which would require a seismic shift in cultural identity. That identity is fundamental to the popularity of our games. Creating artificial entities isn't the answer and would be ruinous for the GAA imho.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 3, 2018 10:33:15 GMT
The GAA are going to keep pumping money into Dublin until splitting up Dublin becomes inevitable. Splitting Dublin can't, and shouldn't, be contemplated unless and until there's a demand for it from within. Which would require a seismic shift in cultural identity. That identity is fundamental to the popularity of our games. Creating artificial entities isn't the answer and would be ruinous for the GAA imho. Splitting Dublin will Never happen and nor should it. It would destroy the game imo, no one up here would support it and rightly so also would you split it by the liffey? The north dublin team would be more or less the one they have now southside would be an average enough team. Southsiders on current panel are 1.con o callaghan 2.cian o sullivan 3.michael fitzsimons 4.niall scully 5.md mcauley 6.e. o gara 7.colm basquel 8.kevin mcmanamon 9.paul mannion So 9/26 the opposite would be true in hurling total fantasy land to imagine this could ever happen.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2018 10:50:55 GMT
Agree, splitting Dublin is total nonsense talk and should be discarded.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2018 11:06:53 GMT
What we should be taking from Dublin is how good Gaelic football could be..................
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2018 11:10:15 GMT
Ye can say what ye like but it was on the GAA agenda when Dublin were winning nothing back in the 90s.
I expect that its a live issue in the corridors of power as they look towards the 30s and 40s.
Having one team representing upwards of 2m people and rising is not tenable in the long run.
The amalgamation of smaller counties will be part of if too i expect.
I could be wrong but they are hardly going to continue to plough 60% of the funding plus Berties 1m for no ulterior motive.
I could be wide of the mark of course.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 3, 2018 11:19:30 GMT
Pat Spillane said yesterday that Kerry added just one new player during his 4 in a row. Not sure who that was by the way. Dublin have 6 new players already since 2015. The team is getting younger. This is not doom and gloom. Its a fact. The likes of Brian Howard and Murchan were 7 in 2005 when the money started to be poured into Dublin. There should be an endless supply coming on tap from now on. Otherwise the money has been wasted! The doom and gloom I'm referring to is not about Dublin football, we all know the rude health it's in. There seems to be an air of doom and gloom around Kerry which is unwarranted. We are producing a lot more talented youngsters than any other county, including Dublin. We have the best underage structures in the country. Donal Daly and co. take a bow. These players will take time to develop physically, but I'm sure a percentage of them will and this coupled with their obvious talents will only bode well for future Kerry teams. I'm a believer, not blindly, based on 'fact'. I saw the stat in a paper recently that Dublin have used 37 different players in their four in a row compared to Kerry's 26 in the 78-81 team. Perhaps Kerry remain the greatest team but Dublin the greatest machine!!!!!!!!
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 3, 2018 14:11:02 GMT
On that same topic - Kerry 1981 had 14 of the same starters from the 1978 game, the only change was Tommy Doyle started in 1981 ahead of Pat Spillane. Spillane came on as a sub meaning all 15 players from 1978 played in 1981. Dublin had 9 of the same starters from 2015. Five of Dublin's starters yesterday were not on the panel four years ago. John Small was on the bench four years ago. Biggest change was in Dublin's forward unit with only 2 of the class of 2015 still playing yesterday - Ciaran Kilkenny and Dean Rock. I argue (and being a Kerryman who can doubt me) that the Kerry team is still the greatest as it was effectively the same team.
The scary point of this is Dublin have evolved and could do a lot more than four with their horribly talented squad. Rosary and Novena's a plenty over the winter.......
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2018 14:58:03 GMT
On that same topic - Kerry 1981 had 14 of the same starters from the 1978 game, the only change was Tommy Doyle started in 1981 ahead of Pat Spillane. Spillane came on as a sub meaning all 15 players from 1978 played in 1981. Dublin had 9 of the same starters from 2015. Five of Dublin's starters yesterday were not on the panel four years ago. John Small was on the bench four years ago. Biggest change was in Dublin's forward unit with only 2 of the class of 2015 still playing yesterday - Ciaran Kilkenny and Dean Rock. I argue (and being a Kerryman who can doubt me) that the Kerry team is still the greatest as it was effectively the same team. The scary point of this is Dublin have evolved and could do a lot more than four with their horribly talented squad. Rosary and Novena's a plenty over the winter....... Kerry got a great crop together in 1975 which was augmented by a few from the 1975 minor team. But they grew old together. The combined age of the full forward line in 1986 was well over 100 years
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Post by dc84 on Sept 3, 2018 15:11:57 GMT
On this aswell the 2018 dublin 20 players used(exl cluxton) average aged used was 26 the subs raised that a bit mcauley, fitzsimons, mcmanaman. Defence is where they might have issues soon not half as many options there especially as they will probably have to keep mccarthy at mf. O sullivan, fitzsimons, mcmahon all over 30. They cpuld move howard back of course but they are light enough on top quality inside backs especially taller ones cooper and murchan wouldnt be the biggest. They struggled with clifford in the league game until he and the redt of the kerry team ran out of steam
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Post by givehimaball on Sept 3, 2018 18:01:12 GMT
Stat from Dont Foul Dublin won 29 out of 31 of their own kickouts ; Tyrone won 17 out of 24 Overall there were 55 kickouts in the game and Dublin won 36, Tyrone won 19. Dublin scored 2-9 from the kickouts they won, whereas Tyrone scored 0-6.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 3, 2018 18:04:11 GMT
On this aswell the 2018 dublin 20 players used(exl cluxton) average aged used was 26 the subs raised that a bit mcauley, fitzsimons, mcmanaman. Defence is where they might have issues soon not half as many options there especially as they will probably have to keep mccarthy at mf. O sullivan, fitzsimons, mcmahon all over 30. They cpuld move howard back of course but they are light enough on top quality inside backs especially taller ones cooper and murchan wouldnt be the biggest. They struggled with clifford in the league game until he and the redt of the kerry team ran out of steam Also of interest is the Dublin bench - the average age of the Dublin bench is 29.9!!! Does this mean the conveyor belt is not as strong as we are thinking. In fact only two of the subs are what you could call young - Commerford at 20 and Basquel at 22. The next youngest is Fitzsimons at 29. A glimmer of hope.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 3, 2018 18:13:49 GMT
On this aswell the 2018 dublin 20 players used(exl cluxton) average aged used was 26 the subs raised that a bit mcauley, fitzsimons, mcmanaman. Defence is where they might have issues soon not half as many options there especially as they will probably have to keep mccarthy at mf. O sullivan, fitzsimons, mcmahon all over 30. They cpuld move howard back of course but they are light enough on top quality inside backs especially taller ones cooper and murchan wouldnt be the biggest. They struggled with clifford in the league game until he and the redt of the kerry team ran out of steam Also of interest is the Dublin bench - the average age of the Dublin bench is 29.9!!! Does this mean the conveyor belt is not as strong as we are thinking. In fact only two of the subs are what you could call young - Commerford at 20 and Basquel at 22. The next youngest is Fitzsimons at 29. A glimmer of hope. There are a few others up here (i live in dublin) like mchugh etc coming through in the forwards but i dont see any outstanding backs if for example kerry went with a ff line of clifford, geaney and tommy walsh( as an example) dublin would struggle to get the match ups there. O sullivan looks like the bodys giving up mcmahons pace is gone (seen this at club level) small is too loose/ dirty for fb line that leaves fitzsimons cooper and murchan/lowndes hardly the most physically imposing fb line Dont forget turone had them all over the place in first 20 mins 5-2 up and about 5 easy wides missed then the(soft?) peno all over then. The few high balls caused dublin problems. Going man to man showed up o sullivan massively i think he is there to be got at clifford dod the same in the league match.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2018 19:56:00 GMT
Also of interest is the Dublin bench - the average age of the Dublin bench is 29.9!!! Does this mean the conveyor belt is not as strong as we are thinking. In fact only two of the subs are what you could call young - Commerford at 20 and Basquel at 22. The next youngest is Fitzsimons at 29. A glimmer of hope. There are a few others up here (i live in dublin) like mchugh etc coming through in the forwards but i dont see any outstanding backs if for example kerry went with a ff line of clifford, geaney and tommy walsh( as an example) dublin would struggle to get the match ups there. O sullivan looks like the bodys giving up mcmahons pace is gone (seen this at club level) small is too loose/ dirty for fb line that leaves fitzsimons cooper and murchan/lowndes hardly the most physically imposing fb line Dont forget turone had them all over the place in first 20 mins 5-2 up and about 5 easy wides missed then the(soft?) peno all over then. The few high balls caused dublin problems. Going man to man showed up o sullivan massively i think he is there to be got at clifford dod the same in the league match. Kerry let a barely held together O'Sullivan away lightly in 2015. They never once stretched his damaged hamstring in that final with a bit of searing pace.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2018 21:29:18 GMT
Stat from Dont Foul Dublin won 29 out of 31 of their own kickouts ; Tyrone won 17 out of 24 Overall there were 55 kickouts in the game and Dublin won 36, Tyrone won 19. Dublin scored 2-9 from the kickouts they won, whereas Tyrone scored 0-6. When Tyrone had their tails up with 5 points on the board Cluxton put a kickout bouncing in from of McCaffrey on the wing who left his man for dead and fed Kilkenny and he banged over a point. Really outstanding score. Seconds later the Tyrone keeper scuffed his kickout and bang Dublin are back in the game from the penalty. Kickouts are where its at. Limerick in the hurling were just as lethal from puckouts but chances were not converted by Limericks forwards
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 3, 2018 22:17:38 GMT
The big thing with the kick outs is that cluxton is prepared for 1 or 2 going wayward in the game. He doesn't panic and still takes on the difficult passes. Compare that to most keepers. After one or two going astray they restort to lamping a few down the middle to settle themselves. I thought Morgan was especially guilty of this yesterday after the goal.
Dublin also have lads that can field the ball in their half forward line. It doesn't have to be a well worked move with lads running into 5 yards of space. Howard fielded a great one yesterday in the second half. They just isolated him and trusted him to win it.
We play with a small enough half forward line sometimes. And the only way they can win the ball is out in front which makes it easier for the opposition to bottle up which means we aren't a real valid option for kick outs unless in a rake of space. Only Sean O'Shea could be seen as a a fetcher
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