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Post by dc84 on May 29, 2018 17:09:03 GMT
Blue panther rightly said after that game that it could be the making of Dublin in 2017....to give them a reality check. He was right as it turned out. KK were good in the 2018 league final but how important will that be when the all Ireland hurling final comes around in august Whether it made Dublin or not in 2017 it still doesn't take away from what was a very good Kerry performance. The two are hardly mutually exclusive! It is possible to play well in both league/championship
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Post by piggott on May 29, 2018 17:18:42 GMT
Had Pat Spillane played before '75? Hardly, he was only 19 in '75. Almost sure he played against Waterford in 1974. Unused sub in Munster Final. Mick O Connell came on as a sub in that game. Pat played minor in 1973.
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Post by An Bradán on May 29, 2018 21:04:41 GMT
I'm puzzled by some of the posts here.
We've had nothing but lads giving out about deficiencies in certain positions on the county team. Now that we have an expanded panel with what seems like tons of competition lads are still unhappy.
I understand there is a degree of uncertainty but I'd take that any day over stagnation. There was a demand over the last few years to get our conveyor belt of young stars into the squad but clearly the players weren't ready. Whether or not they will be ready this season remains to be seen. I hope they can combine with the experienced players to get us really competitive.
As for the lack of a defensive structure we clearly have one but Kerry fans don't like it. It involves two tackling / defensive lines activated on the 45's as we retreat to defend our goals. This system has been employed with occasional tweaks for quite some time. We saw an development of the process against Dublin with the full court press in 2016 but by and large we set up to tackle on our 45s.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 29, 2018 21:32:05 GMT
I’ve seen a few on here suggest a full forward line of Geaney, Clifford and JOD- how would that work? Who would be the link man?
I’d be shocked if we went with an orthodox inside line like that- that day is dead and teams would just run us from that line- thus dragging a half forward line back the field and leading huge gaps between our lines.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 30, 2018 0:09:52 GMT
I'm puzzled by some of the posts here. We've had nothing but lads giving out about deficiencies in certain positions on the county team. Now that we have an expanded panel with what seems like tons of competition lads are still unhappy. I understand there is a degree of uncertainty but I'd take that any day over stagnation. There was a demand over the last few years to get our conveyor belt of young stars into the squad but clearly the players weren't ready. Whether or not they will be ready this season remains to be seen. I hope they can combine with the experienced players to get us really competitive. As for the lack of a defensive structure we clearly have one but Kerry fans don't like it. It involves two tackling / defensive lines activated on the 45's as we retreat to defend our goals. This system has been employed with occasional tweaks for quite some time. We saw an development of the process against Dublin with the full court press in 2016 but by and large we set up to tackle on our 45s. We might have a system but the problem is that it doesn't work. In the last few years, Clare, Cork, Mayo, Dublin and Galway have torn our defence apart by running at us. I think people mean a system that works. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insane
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on May 30, 2018 7:30:57 GMT
I’ve seen a few on here suggest a full forward line of Geaney, Clifford and JOD- how would that work? Who would be the link man? I’d be shocked if we went with an orthodox inside line like that- that day is dead and teams would just run us from that line- thus dragging a half forward line back the field and leading huge gaps between our lines. Yea, I don't see O'Donoghue starting with McCarthy being more likely.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2018 7:34:57 GMT
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Post by buck02 on May 30, 2018 7:55:06 GMT
There are going to be a few more clubs with their noses out of joint with the confirmation that they are sticking with the extended panel of 40. There will be 14 players who dont make match day squads unable to play county league with two rounds coming up in June, 3 rounds in July and another round in August.
Add in the Under 20s who will be unavailable for most if not all of those rounds and you will see a lot of clubs teams extremely under strength this summer.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 30, 2018 8:11:28 GMT
I’ve seen a few on here suggest a full forward line of Geaney, Clifford and JOD- how would that work? Who would be the link man? I’d be shocked if we went with an orthodox inside line like that- that day is dead and teams would just run us from that line- thus dragging a half forward line back the field and leading huge gaps between our lines. Yea, I don't see O'Donoghue starting with McCarthy being more likely. Yeah he is a better option in terms of structuring a team and there are a few others that would be better options if we were going with a Geaney & Clifford inside line
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2018 8:11:45 GMT
There are going to be a few more clubs with their noses out of joint with the confirmation that they are sticking with the extended panel of 40. There will be 14 players who dont make match day squads unable to play county league with two rounds coming up in June, 3 rounds in July and another round in August. Add in the Under 20s who will be unavailable for most if not all of those rounds and you will see a lot of clubs teams extremely under strength this summer. It is probably a requirement now - extended panel - rather than allowing younger fringe players going back and idling in sub country standard training & development systems at clubs Is a young player from the recent underage teams who is not yet up to senior county standard better off training with Diarmuid Murphy inside or with weak club? That window between underage and senior is very important now for the development of players. It is just the advances in the county game putting more and more pressure on the club game!
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Post by buck02 on May 30, 2018 8:47:21 GMT
I have no problem with those lads training with the extended 40 man panel or the development panel.
Its stopping those lads playing for their club say on a Saturday cos they are on the "extended panel" when Kerry are playing on a Sunday.
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Post by greengold35 on May 30, 2018 9:59:16 GMT
I have no problem with those lads training with the extended 40 man panel or the development panel. Its stopping those lads playing for their club say on a Saturday cos they are on the "extended panel" when Kerry are playing on a Sunday. The 2nd or backup panel train once a week with Kerry and are then back with their clubs & available for county league - it’s the championship panel of 36 who remain within the Kerry setup and not available for county league. The problem I have is that there are 10 players outside of the match day squad of 26 who do not play ANY competitive football - this needs to change for the good of clubs and the benefit to those individuals.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 30, 2018 11:08:29 GMT
I have no problem with those lads training with the extended 40 man panel or the development panel. Its stopping those lads playing for their club say on a Saturday cos they are on the "extended panel" when Kerry are playing on a Sunday. The 2nd or backup panel train once a week with Kerry and are then back with their clubs & available for county league - it’s the championship panel of 36 who remain within the Kerry setup and not available for county league. The problem I have is that there are 10 players outside of the match day squad of 26 who do not play ANY competitive football - this needs to change for the good of clubs and the benefit to those individuals. 100% agree- this is what actually happened to Tommy Walsh when he first came back The lad hadnt played football in a couple of years and then was brought back into a limbo like position where he didnt have enough football behind him to get in the Kerry team but wasnt released to play for his club.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on May 30, 2018 11:11:49 GMT
I hope we see Weldon's influence starting from Sunday because we've seen nothing so far.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 30, 2018 11:26:00 GMT
I still can't get over the hot housing of 40 players inside at county training. Sure with a panel of 26 and a few extra lads it should only be about 30. It smacks to be that management have no idea of the pecking order of their panel. They are carrying 14 extra players outside of the match day panel of 26. And f these extra lads are being denied football with their clubs in the mean time they will regress instead of progress.
I have no problem with Weldon being involved being a big basketball supporter myself. But, hopefully he is being listened to. One of the Key pieces of any basketball coach's strategy is the zone defence. I didnt see any sign of a zone defence being used in the league. It was all man to man and stringing lads out across the 45 like ladies young ones waiting to be asked to dance at a disco.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on May 30, 2018 12:36:44 GMT
I still can't get over the hot housing of 40 players inside at county training. Sure with a panel of 26 and a few extra lads it should only be about 30. It smacks to be that management have no idea of the pecking order of their panel. They are carrying 14 extra players outside of the match day panel of 26. And f these extra lads are being denied football with their clubs in the mean time they will regress instead of progress. I have no problem with Weldon being involved being a big basketball supporter myself. But, hopefully he is being listened to. One of the Key pieces of any basketball coach's strategy is the zone defence. I didnt see any sign of a zone defence being used in the league. It was all man to man and stringing lads out across the 45 like ladies young ones waiting to be asked to dance at a disco. I'd imagine part of it is that they can play full 15 on 15 games while allowing for injuries, etc;
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keane
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Post by keane on May 30, 2018 12:56:57 GMT
Guys who are willing to not play for their clubs all summer so they can be number 36 in a Kerry panel would want to take themselves aside.
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Post by onlykerry on May 30, 2018 13:13:43 GMT
Guys who are willing to not play for their clubs all summer so they can be number 36 in a Kerry panel would want to take themselves aside. I think that is a bit too much of a generalisation - for an emerging player it is very difficult to step away and one is always hoping to get the call. The issue for me remains with management - players need games. Games are far more beneficial than endless training sessions. Outside a matchday 26 and injured players all others should be encouraged to play club football at every opportunity with a caveat of player welfare (overdoing it with training and games in close proximity).
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Post by dc84 on May 30, 2018 13:40:51 GMT
Guys who are willing to not play for their clubs all summer so they can be number 36 in a Kerry panel would want to take themselves aside. If i was 20 -21 and was invited to kerry training i would jump at the chance. Id say it isnt clear who is from about 20th place to 40th in terms of making the squad bound to happen if so many are being tried out
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keane
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Post by keane on May 30, 2018 13:42:37 GMT
Guys who are willing to not play for their clubs all summer so they can be number 36 in a Kerry panel would want to take themselves aside. If i was 20 -21 and was invited to kerry training i would jump at the chance. Id say it isnt clear who is from about 20th place to 40th in terms of making the squad bound to happen if so many are being tried out I doubt the guys towards the bottom of the pecking order are all 20. I seriously, seriously doubt a guy who is #39 could possibly think he is #21.
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Post by gamechanger10 on May 30, 2018 13:46:30 GMT
Keane, Its ,every young lads dream to play for their county especially a county steeped in tradition like kerry. To be asked to the front step is almost like an interview for a cherished job and these young men are willing to forgo almost anything for that dreamlike opportunity. As stared above its up to the managment and perhaps the County Board to draw the appropriate terms for these eager and committed young men.
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Post by An Bradán on May 30, 2018 13:53:00 GMT
I'm puzzled by some of the posts here. We've had nothing but lads giving out about deficiencies in certain positions on the county team. Now that we have an expanded panel with what seems like tons of competition lads are still unhappy. I understand there is a degree of uncertainty but I'd take that any day over stagnation. There was a demand over the last few years to get our conveyor belt of young stars into the squad but clearly the players weren't ready. Whether or not they will be ready this season remains to be seen. I hope they can combine with the experienced players to get us really competitive. As for the lack of a defensive structure we clearly have one but Kerry fans don't like it. It involves two tackling / defensive lines activated on the 45's as we retreat to defend our goals. This system has been employed with occasional tweaks for quite some time. We saw an development of the process against Dublin with the full court press in 2016 but by and large we set up to tackle on our 45s. We might have a system but the problem is that it doesn't work. In the last few years, Clare, Cork, Mayo, Dublin and Galway have torn our defence apart by running at us. I think people mean a system that works. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insane Can't argue with that but nevertheless we have being using a set system for years notwithstanding it's effectiveness. We should see the difference if any since Weldon has stepped in next weekend vs Clare. It annoys me when lads here keep saying we don't have one. It really annoys me when the one we have isn't good enough. And it really, really annoys me when we have excellent coaches from various sports available to the county but haven't used them this far. Hope springs eternal. Roll on Sunday
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Post by Mickmack on May 30, 2018 15:07:54 GMT
Guys who are willing to not play for their clubs all summer so they can be number 36 in a Kerry panel would want to take themselves aside. I think that is a bit too much of a generalisation - for an emerging player it is very difficult to step away and one is always hoping to get the call. The issue for me remains with management - players need games. Games are far more beneficial than endless training sessions. Outside a matchday 26 and injured players all others should be encouraged to play club football at every opportunity with a caveat of player welfare (overdoing it with training and games in close proximity). I agree broadly speaking but I will say this....after a few super 8 games on the trot, you could have a dozen injured players so maybe 40 is needed to draw on in 2018
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Post by dc84 on May 30, 2018 15:56:07 GMT
I think that is a bit too much of a generalisation - for an emerging player it is very difficult to step away and one is always hoping to get the call. The issue for me remains with management - players need games. Games are far more beneficial than endless training sessions. Outside a matchday 26 and injured players all others should be encouraged to play club football at every opportunity with a caveat of player welfare (overdoing it with training and games in close proximity). I agree broadly speaking but I will say this....after a few super 8 games on the trot, you could have a dozen injured players so maybe 40 is needed to draw on in 2018 This could be the issue personally i do think 40 is excessive.but no doubt a bigger panel is required than previous years just look at Waterford hurlers
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Post by Deise Exile on May 30, 2018 22:14:41 GMT
Fierce exciting. Tomas was very positive on 2FM this evening.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on May 31, 2018 0:06:28 GMT
The rumours around the camp and the voices from those in the knowing is that there will be plenty of youth on show in Kerry's championship games and that a new direction is to be taken. I hope that is true and I hope we stop playing "the system" and start playing football. If our underage success has taught us anything is that the talent is there and that Kerry can still beat anyone. I really hope they go out this year and show Ireland some Kerry football. Clare will be a good start.
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Post by greengold35 on May 31, 2018 8:25:52 GMT
The rumours around the camp and the voices from those in the knowing is that there will be plenty of youth on show in Kerry's championship games and that a new direction is to be taken. I hope that is true and I hope we stop playing "the system" and start playing football. If our underage success has taught us anything is that the talent is there and that Kerry can still beat anyone. I really hope they go out this year and show Ireland some Kerry football. Clare will be a good start. Some of the best football played by those wearing the green 'n gold recently has been that under Peter Keane's tenure - quick and direct, good forward play and very disciplined defending - think he is a future senior bainisteoir.
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Post by Mickmack on May 31, 2018 9:03:03 GMT
Éamonn Fitzmaurice admits Kerry link with fans ‘has suffered’ Thursday, May 31, 2018
By Tony Leen
Sports Editor
He weighed up the odds in his head. Kerry, 5/1 for the All-Ireland?
“There’s always a thing with Kerry where you never know,” he mused.
“Like, there’s always a curiosity of what they’ll come with.” And then Éamonn Fitzmaurice stepped back into his manager’s moccasins and made for the long grass.
“After next Sunday, we will either be one way or the other — people will start talking about us again or they’ll say, ‘yeah they really are a couple of years away from this thing’,” the Kerry boss remarked.
“From a personal perspective, I am really looking forward to the summer, I am excited about it, about our squad, excited about the format. I am bursting for games, and all the lads are the same I’d imagine.
“And I’m not complaining about being under the radar.” It isn’t just the chattering classes struggling to get a fix on where to put Kerry in the rankings. Some who’ve only stepped outside the bubble are parched for real information. Who’s going well, who’s injured, what way the attack will line up, what sort of work they’ve done to shore up a leaky defence?
Only those who climb trees can claim with any veracity that the Kingdom are motoring well behind closed doors. Fitzmaurice is not a man for challenge games, believing his squad get a robust scrutiny of their worth behind the closed gates of Fitzgerald Stadium. And closed they will remain, despite the consequences.
“The closed training was something that had to happen,” Fitzmaurice says. “The unfortunate part (of that) is that bit of a link with the supporters has suffered, and it’s something we have to work on.
“That connection between the supporters and the players in particular, don’t mind the management.
“That relationship has to be grown again, and that partly comes from success and winning things, particularly with young players, who may become young heroes, coming to the fore.”
Has the connection with the Kerry support been lost?
“I don’t think it’s been lost. It’s important to have a tight ship, there’s so much coverage now and it’s so easy for stuff to get out on social media. Every fella has an opinion and it’s easy to get the opinion out there.
“But there is a hardcore Kerry supporting group who go to every game and there’s a great link there, a real link. But with the general public, yes, it’s something we have to work on, and something I’ve been thinking about. We need to get a small bit better at that in Kerry. And success helps it.”
Kerry’s Division 1 report card indicated potential growth but ultimately amounted to a ‘Can Do Better’ verdict.
Impatient natives had plenty to grouch about with defeats to Monaghan, Dublin, Galway, and Tyrone but proper assessment of where Fitzmaurice’s rebuild is will wait for this autumn and may — depending on performance — stretch into 2019.
The league was “a mixed bag,” he accepted, with good reason.
“We had an appreciation this year that we had a lot of fellas who needed to see game time. The last couple of years we’d have liked to have done that but couldn’t, with the Under 21 Championship crossing over with it.
“In an ideal world this spring, you’d have fed in less of the younger lads in together. You’d have looked at the same number, but you mightn’t have as many of them playing the games at once. That was the hand we were dealt. Overall, I was happy with the league, but it’s almost like another season now, we’ve moved on from it.”
If the relationship with, and level of support from the Kerry public, is something that needs work, Fitzmaurice understands too that it’s a fickler audience these days. The need for instant judgment and gratification has skewed reality.
“One of the things I found weird with the club month in April, especially for such a football-mad county, was that the crowds were very disappointing at some of the club championship games.”
“I was at the club final between Dr Crokes and Dingle, which was a good fixture, and there was maybe a couple of hundred there.
“I was sitting there thinking, ‘is there a lot else on TV today.
“Or is it all a reflection of how society has gone? I am beating us up about the link with our supporters, and then I wonder are people just not going to games anymore?
“I was really scratching my head at some of those games.
“Like what else was going on that evening that people wouldn’t go out for an hour and support their club?”
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on May 31, 2018 9:11:46 GMT
The rumours around the camp and the voices from those in the knowing is that there will be plenty of youth on show in Kerry's championship games and that a new direction is to be taken. I hope that is true and I hope we stop playing "the system" and start playing football. If our underage success has taught us anything is that the talent is there and that Kerry can still beat anyone. I really hope they go out this year and show Ireland some Kerry football. Clare will be a good start. Some of the best football played by those wearing the green 'n gold recently has been that under Peter Keane's tenure - quick and direct, good forward play and very disciplined defending - think he is a future senior bainisteoir. I agree - and not a "system" to be seen. Last year's AI minor final proved it. Dozens of comments on this forum about a weak defence. What does Peter do - win the throw in - create space in front of goal - feed Clifford - a goal up in 10 seconds. Exploit the defence now!!
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 31, 2018 9:21:43 GMT
Some of the best football played by those wearing the green 'n gold recently has been that under Peter Keane's tenure - quick and direct, good forward play and very disciplined defending - think he is a future senior bainisteoir. I agree - and not a "system" to be seen. Last year's AI minor final proved it. Dozens of comments on this forum about a weak defence. What does Peter do - win the throw in - create space in front of goal - feed Clifford - a goal up in 10 seconds. Exploit the defence now!! Kerry defended in numbers under Peter Keane and Tommy Griffin. Always held a man back. Not a sweeper as such but a helping defender. You can't compare minor and senior. Lads can play with a certain freedom at minor that just isnt there at senior level. Watch the last Kerry minor / U17 match the drop down to 17 has even accentuated this difference.
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