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Post by veteran on Jul 15, 2018 7:58:38 GMT
Jack cannot take all the blame for this latest defeat but pleading absence of players in his defence is a weak argument. It is very rare for any team to go through an entire campaign without losing one or two players for a variety of reasons. The loss is lessened if you know well in advance that these players will not be available.
Jack knew early in the year that David and Sean would be with the seniors. Likewise Mark O'Connor last year. Riobaird O'Se was a genuine star for the juniors at. midfield last year. Jack made little or no use of him.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jul 15, 2018 8:36:18 GMT
Kildare played the better football, the better brand of football too. They won that game as they were 1. More fired up and tuned in and 2. They were better drilled. Their kickout strategy was better than ours. The management team, I say “team” because I include trainers selectors and JOC give off an air of arrogance which clearly transcends down to the players. From the off yesterday Kildare were at the pitch of the game whilst Kerry were like a team expecting a handy day at the office. You have to respect everyone fully. You can be beaten by absolutely anyone but and there’s no shame in it as long as your up for the fight and get out fought. Last year on the way off the team bus before the Galway game there was lads winking and acting the ape walking by the tg4 cameras. Again cock sure that it was just a formality. Your a product of your environment. I’ve no issue with being beaten by a better team which they were on the day, but if we were switched on and professional from the start we’d have won that game yesterday.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Jul 15, 2018 10:55:27 GMT
Are we to consider some of our lads second stringers? Is that the excuse? It was still a talented team – albeit a team that played with no edge for chunks of all their games. Nobody can deny Jack's successes but his career record belied his operational incompetence in the present day’s game. As proved again last evening Jack is not up to it and hasn’t been for some time now. Like all coaches, his fate will be determined by results. On that basis, time for change.
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 15, 2018 11:28:12 GMT
The daft decision by the GAA to stop the best players from playing U20 if they play with the seniors along with the Aussie rules "theft" of Mark O Connor left our team short of three key players from our recent minor successes. Jack and his management team have put in huge effort for the past 9/10 months working with this group of players despite the loss of key players and I always find it disturbing to read the personalised comments and slagging off when we eventually come a cropper in a competition - I do not agree with all they have done and the way they have gone about their business but they deserve more respect for the time, effort and dedication they have given. My understanding is the primary role that the U20's serve is to bridge the gap between minor and senior and whereas winning the competition would be fantastic, developing players to step up to the senior team is seen by both management and the county board as the main objective of this grade - time will tell if they succeed when we discover how many win senior AI's. Kildare have targeted this competition by keeping their stars available, though senior mangement must be wishing otherwise at times.
The development squad system has served us well with the bulk of the lads having come through that system - my main bug bear is the goal keeping position and clearly Jack has a problem with this position also. Jack plucked a midfielder from obscurity when he managed the minors ignoring 4+ keepers who had been developed in the N & S squads. For his u21 keeper he again went looking and having tried several he opted for a lad who seems to have appeared from nowhere. I have nothing against the lad who played (and having asked about him I heard positive things) but we must not be doing the right things with our underage development keepers if we keep having to look elsewhere. I would also question Jack's slavish faith in his system which sees us resort to keep ball tactics which in tight games sees lateral passing come to the fore, everybody is afraid to lose the ball so pass it sideways. Maybe this is the tell tale attribute that informs us management do not believe we have lads who can win their own ball in the forward division or that those delivering the ball do not have the ability to give 70:30 ball to the forwards. Maybe I am reading Jack wrong and it is just him being pragmatic.
Looking forward to seeing if any of these lads can graduate to the next level.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 15, 2018 13:58:36 GMT
Jack did not seem to have any plan to counteract Hyland - the maxim that you should never be beaten by the oppositions best player was clearly ignored on this occasion - Graham O’Sullivan was a very able full back @ minor as were Sean O’Leary & Potts - that neither picked up Hyland at any stage is baffling.
The Sigerson can also be a good barometer of our well being - Sweeney & Linnane were no 29 & 30 respectively in ULs game vs CIT in Feb - at that stage it would have been difficult to see either feature at this level.
In relation to the keeper situation, I believe Jack was unhappy that his first choice keeper initially was playing outfield with his club!
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 15, 2018 19:21:00 GMT
In relation to the keeper situation, I believe Jack was unhappy that his first choice keeper initially was playing outfield with his club! Didn't he do the same with Shane Ryan at this level?
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Post by himself on Jul 15, 2018 20:00:27 GMT
I know it didn't go our way but I just feel that there's an over-reaction. It feels like the Monty Python sketch about "what did the Romans ever do for us?" I'm not saying that Jack O'Connor didn't make mistakes, but we missed bread and butter stuff and still lost by a point. We have two Munster titles on the trot. We haven't had that in a long long time (by Kerry standards). I'm not saying questions shouldn't be asked, but this guy has been directly involved in 21 All Ireland wins. The year he is missing his two best players and he loses to a great Kildare team - and that is a great team and Hyland is a superb talent. Suddenly he's useless? Before anyone asks, I feel the same about the Internet criticism of Eamonn Fitzmaurice today after the Galway game. Management and players gave everything they had. They stood at or in the cauldron. I'm not saying that they can't or shouldn't be criticised, but I just feel that a lot of the criticism is over the top "this guy is useless". No, they're not, and they have the medals to prove it. My two cents on it anyway.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jul 15, 2018 20:26:16 GMT
Our record at u21/20 in the modern era is extremely poor. In the last 19 years we’ve reached 1 final. During that spell We rank 9th in the country for final appearances. Limerick, Tipperary, Cavan, Westmeath have reached as many finals as we have
Counties like Down, Roscommon, Kildare, Laois have features in more finals than us.
That Kerry team was more than capable of winning that game yesterday. The bookies are never too far wrong, they had us as 1/5 shots. People are harping on about missing clifford and Seanie Shea. Seanie played v Galway last year, the team wasn’t grounded then, just like yesterday. You can’t switch on focus, it’s either there when your leaving the dressing room or it’s not. We’ve all been on teams that been beaten when our heads weren’t in the right place.
If that game was played again in the morning you’d out your house on Kerry
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 15, 2018 23:02:45 GMT
You could end up living in a tent
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 15, 2018 23:14:22 GMT
In relation to the keeper situation, I believe Jack was unhappy that his first choice keeper initially was playing outfield with his club! Didn't he do the same with Shane Ryan at this level? I believe that Shane Ryan opted out of the panel as he did NOT want to play in goal - different situation with Uosis who it seems was happy to play in goal but JO’C wanted somebody who is a regular club keeper.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 16, 2018 9:45:37 GMT
Jack O Connnor, with his vast experience as a manager, must take the bulk of the blame for the result on Saturday. He sent out a team that played an insipid brand of football. They didnt know how to get the ball to the two scoring forwards he had on the team. And when they went looking for scores he took one of them off. Our full back line were offered no protection whatsoever. We looked like a team that has had the life sucked out of it - remember these guys have been training together since last October.
Jack seems to have surrounded himself with yes men and I hope that Tim Murphy has the guts to tell him to go away and have a good look in the mirror. But I'd say theres two chances of that happening.
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Post by allrounder on Jul 16, 2018 10:45:35 GMT
Individual errors gave Kildare 1-3, individual errors cost Kerry 1-6 (low water). Two errors less and Kerry are in all Ireland final and Jack and the lads are great men. Sport is fickle!
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nk1
Junior Member
Posts: 39
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Post by nk1 on Jul 16, 2018 11:56:59 GMT
I feel for the players on this loss .I have no dought they are a better that this performance. The set up by kerry gave too much respect for kildare . kerry management would have been better looking at kerry strengths that trying to stifle kildare . Kildare had a golden 5 mins in the Second half where they scored 1.3 without reply. The goal was a real gift this in conjuction with 4 very very storable frees gives a 1.4 swing around .to there credit the players battled to the end Oconnors pass to Friel in the end summed up the day for this talented group a game of what ifs and an opportunity lost
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timmy
Senior Member
Posts: 251
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Post by timmy on Jul 16, 2018 20:20:48 GMT
Jack O Connnor, with his vast experience as a manager, must take the bulk of the blame for the result on Saturday. He sent out a team that played an insipid brand of football. They didnt know how to get the ball to the two scoring forwards he had on the team. And when they went looking for scores he took one of them off. Our full back line were offered no protection whatsoever. We looked like a team that has had the life sucked out of it - remember these guys have been training together since last October. Jack seems to have surrounded himself with yes men and I hope that Tim Murphy has the guts to tell him to go away and have a good look in the mirror. But I'd say theres two chances of that happening. Harsh and totally wrong regarding the yes men statement above. What evidence do you have to back up this statement. With a bit of luck this U-20 team could be in an All Ireland Final. The loss of O’’Shes and Clifford was always going to be an issue when they got to the knock out stages.
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Post by veteran on Jul 16, 2018 21:38:15 GMT
Was Peter Keane interested in the U20 job.?
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 16, 2018 21:51:10 GMT
Strangely enough before a ball was thrown in yesterday someone in the stand mentioned Peter Keane's name to me as regards to the next senior manager.
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timmy
Senior Member
Posts: 251
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Post by timmy on Jul 16, 2018 22:18:05 GMT
Was Peter Keane interested in the U20 job.? From what I have heard he was only interested in another 2 years as minor manager at the moment but yes definitely a senior manager in the making if he is interested. Big difference managing an inter county senior team compared to an inter county minor team though.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jul 18, 2018 11:57:07 GMT
Not sure sure how accurate that last post is. I can’t say it for sure but I’d be very surprised if Peter wasn’t looking to go forward with the u20s this year. It makes no sense to go effectively backwards and sign up for 2 years at the u17 grade. I happen to know first hand that he is not a fan of the u17 competition. It’s a terrible age grade. Make no mistake Peter would have moved up to u20 but the option wasn’t open to him. If the man had notions of going on to senior, managing a group of 16 year olds is hardly good preparation for him and he knows that. I say 16 year olds because that’s what the majority of the panel are (u17), therefore still 16 and in some cases only 15. Jack O Connor got his two years added on and it stopped Peter in his tracks.
Jack and his management team have had 3 goes at this grade now. 2016, lost to cork when he more or less discarded a full cohort of 21 year olds and went with the lads who were in the first and 2nd year of u21, who had the minor medals won (huge mistake) 2017 with a star studded team got turned over by Galway 2018 ala last year same mistake, believing hype and got turned over by Kildare
Maybe Peter should have got the u20 job after all
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 19, 2018 21:06:04 GMT
What are the chances of the u17 grade decision being reversed? Eight minors, u18, were on the u20 team. Not convienced u17 will become a spectator sport long term.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 19, 2018 21:49:21 GMT
Not sure about the u18 numbers, heard the number of 8 mentioned at some point. So in effect u20 will become the new minor with u17 absorbed into juvenile proper football. That might work going forwards.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jul 19, 2018 23:50:25 GMT
it Should be u19 for minor. It would be an excellent age. You’d have great games. Reinstall the u21 grade too. Anyone u19 can’t play u21 for burnout reasons. U17 is a lottery. Size and strength rule the roost, your dealing with. We all know of Heaps of lads that were excellent at u16 that we’re by passed by the real footballers when strength and size levelled out.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 20, 2018 6:49:27 GMT
What are the chances of the u17 grade decision being reversed? Eight minors, u18, were on the u20 team. Not convienced u17 will become a spectator sport long term. Depends on how much influence Niall Moyna has with the new President. Its amazing how the grade change happened on the back of a single study from this guy.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Jul 20, 2018 7:49:15 GMT
What are the chances of the u17 grade decision being reversed? Eight minors, u18, were on the u20 team. Not convienced u17 will become a spectator sport long term. Depends on how much influence Niall Moyna has with the new President. Its amazing how the grade change happened on the back of a single study from this guy. Agree. Yet 5 lads sitting leaving cert exams on the day of an u20 championship game is not considered burnout.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 5, 2018 14:03:08 GMT
Kildare 1-18 Mayo 1-16 - KILDARE WINNERS OF THE UNDER 20S!
Congratulations to Kildare!
A superb team and what a performance from them in the final against Mayo. They played with real intelligence and their fielding and some of the point taking was a joy to behold. I knew it had to be a very special side to beat a very talented Kerry under 20s this year and so it proved. Kildare are worthy Champions and what a talent Jimmy Hyland is but they had heroes all over the field.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 5, 2018 14:09:07 GMT
JOC might get a reprieve now?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 14:12:23 GMT
Ah sure, he doesn't have a clue either!
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 5, 2018 14:16:32 GMT
Probably the first back to back minor winning manager to be considered obsolete within two years. Lol!
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 5, 2018 14:17:09 GMT
If JOC had stuck with the keeper and two midfielders from the 2017 minor winning team that Peter Keane had, Kerry would have won this all ireland.
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Post by glengael on Aug 6, 2018 8:53:51 GMT
Well done to Kildare. Who knows they might well be the first of the commuter counties to begin making the most of their advantages.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 6, 2018 8:55:39 GMT
Well done to Kildare. Who knows they might well be the first of the commuter counties to begin making the most of their advantages. They kicked some great points this year, their seniors.
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