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Post by skybluezone on Sept 14, 2017 20:12:18 GMT
Ah look we dont get our knickers in a knot about going off topic on here. ..discussions go all over the place, one word borrows another.... So with that in mind.... Is there any bssis in 2017 for taxpayers money to be given to the dubs via the sports council. If it makes it any easier for you i will resurrect the money thread and ask you it on that. Look I'm not going to engage you in this because I don't know exactly how figures are pulled together, how the money is counted or double counted in some instances. A variety of formulae have been used by those with a vested interest in either protecting Dublins cut or campaigning to cut funding for Dublin. But journalists like McKenna in his drive to split Dublin in 5, I kid you not, disingenuously massage the figures to make it seem that Dublin gaa are taking the piss out of the rest of the organization. He has been schooled more than once on twitter on this topic, and goes running for cover when presented with facts. Same as that Trump chap. Get it out there without a care for the truth, or the consequences. Do you think for a minute that hq would happily preside over a scenario where Dublin swallow the rest of the gaa whole all because they want us to keep winning. It's nuts really but that's what's being peddled. And from the Dublin side of the fence you get a pain in the hole listening to Dubs Park, pro Dublin refs, too much money, full time professionals, although the only two I know of hail from Kerry, gym bunnies, et cetera et cetera. But it goes with the territory of being winners i suppose.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 14, 2017 20:16:16 GMT
To be honest I always thought that the testimonial was a worthwhile idea in soccer - before the players earned such huge money. One of the nice things about it is a that the ordinary supporter, for a modest sum, could go along and pay tribute to player in a fun, relaxed, and inclusive atmosphere. Everyone knew the arrangement re where the gate receipts went. There was some risk on the player as well that he wouldn't get enough people to turn up. It seemed like a just reward for long service in a precarious professional career - to reiterate, this was before the average plodder was paid crazy money.
This event is being held in Dublin, and is going to be quite corporate, and given the price, exclusive. I can't help but think that if Colm really had to have a testimonial, it would be best as a game in Fitzgerald Stadium. Any charities that were tied in could collect outside.
But of course I understand the problems with the above, i.e. it would need the co-operation of the GAA and would set a precedent. I see that Colm sought the goodwill of the GAA for his event but lets face it, that's all it is, they couldn't stop him one way or the other.
I hate being in anyway churlish about such a great player and good man but I don't believe this is in keeping with the ethos of the GAA. There again, I don't think the Sky deal is either.
It will be interesting to see if Brolly pipes up about this now that he and Colm are colleagues! This is exactly the type of event he would denounce!
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Post by lár na páirce on Sept 14, 2017 20:36:29 GMT
To be honest I always thought that the testimonial was a worthwhile idea in soccer - before the players earned such huge money. One of the nice things about it is a that the ordinary supporter, for a modest sum, could go along and pay tribute to player in a fun, relaxed, and inclusive atmosphere. Everyone knew the arrangement re where the gate receipts went. There was some risk on the player as well that he wouldn't get enough people to turn up. I totally agree,I would love if the Gooch held a testimonial in Lewis road,Where he could invite players he played against down through the years to take on a Dr.Crokes/Kerry selection,Charge a €10 on the gate a certain % of it to a local charity,He keeps the rest,The Crokes then could charge for tea/mars bars/Parking/Programme etc.. and everyone would get a little bit and it would be a nice way for the Kerry public to bid adieu to one of the greats.He would still get a nice parting "gift"Marc O Sé could do similar in Gallarus,Aidan O Mahoney in Rathmore,All low key events a little boost to the local economy and a great evening out for everyone. This corporate event in Dublin does not sit right at all
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 20:48:44 GMT
And the gooch might pick up 5k if he was lucky. He will make a decent six figure amount from the other event.
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Post by glengael on Sept 14, 2017 21:30:01 GMT
I expect the tax man will take a nice cut off it if it's 6 figure sum...
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 15, 2017 7:26:23 GMT
Ah look we dont get our knickers in a knot about going off topic on here. ..discussions go all over the place, one word borrows another.... So with that in mind.... Is there any bssis in 2017 for taxpayers money to be given to the dubs via the sports council. If it makes it any easier for you i will resurrect the money thread and ask you it on that. Look I'm not going to engage you in this because I don't know exactly how figures are pulled together, how the money is counted or double counted in some instances. A variety of formulae have been used by those with a vested interest in either protecting Dublins cut or campaigning to cut funding for Dublin. But journalists like McKenna in his drive to split Dublin in 5, I kid you not, disingenuously massage the figures to make it seem that Dublin gaa are taking the piss out of the rest of the organization. He has been schooled more than once on twitter on this topic, and goes running for cover when presented with facts. Same as that Trump chap. Get it out there without a care for the truth, or the consequences. Do you think for a minute that hq would happily preside over a scenario where Dublin swallow the rest of the gaa whole all because they want us to keep winning. It's nuts really but that's what's being peddled. And from the Dublin side of the fence you get a pain in the hole listening to Dubs Park, pro Dublin refs, too much money, full time professionals, although the only two I know of hail from Kerry, gym bunnies, et cetera et cetera. But it goes with the territory of being winners i suppose. Its not exactly difficult to do the sums in all of this. If its a pain in the hole for you to listen to this, imagine how mayo feel. In the middle of your post you ask the most relevant question....why would Gaa hq want this.....in my view they have wanted to split dublin for years...... Turning the all ireland into what the leinster championship has become will make it inevitable. There is always an agenda....
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Post by himself on Sept 15, 2017 10:12:51 GMT
Mickmack, in all fairness some of us were interested in a topic that had absolutely no connection whatsoever with Dublin finances...until you completely killed this thread. I fully respect your right to an opinion, but could you start a thread about things you have a strong opinion about, instead of hijacking other ones?
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 15, 2017 10:27:49 GMT
Mickmack, in all fairness some of us were interested in a topic that had absolutely no connection whatsoever with Dublin finances...until you completely killed this thread. I fully respect your right to an opinion, but could you start a thread about things you have a strong opinion about, instead of hijacking other ones? Right so....back on topic..... Whats your opinion on Colm's testimonial?
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Post by himself on Sept 15, 2017 10:40:50 GMT
Not remotely happy about it. A bad precedent. I don't begrudge Colm, or any other player, and frankly I think that Croke Park (and our own County Board) have gone much too far down the corporate route already. But the GAA can't afford professionalism in players (I honestly believe, and always have, that no-one should be paid in the organisation apart from medical staff - we would be a smaller, but much better organisation and have a far greater social impact). These days I'd sooner give the money to Colm than Croke Park - I'll admit that my perception is coloured by the colossal amount of one-sided games in recent years and the sacrifice of a decent club fixture schedule for the financial behemoth of inter-county football. But I'd much sooner give my money (and you are probably talking about even less than the proverbial widow's mite in my case) to that rarity, an honestly run Irish charity, than to either. That tacked-on, cheap advertisement of an undisclosed charity donation of proceeds is quite simply an outright disgrace, in my opinion. Colm has every right to do this, as does every prominent player who retires in the future. But I don't like it, and I wouldn't attend if I was given a free ticket.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 15, 2017 12:44:06 GMT
Think the whole think looks very grubby to be honest. I wonder if the charity bit is tacked so companies can class buying a table as a charity donation for tax purposes?
Why can't the event be held in anyone of the fine hotels in his hometown and bring some money in locally. This is just an inevitable conclusion.
Enquired about a ticket for the minors and got no where but I can pay a grand for a golf day and purchase two tickets. The GAA is slowly but surely eating itself.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 15, 2017 13:00:27 GMT
Not remotely happy about it. A bad precedent. I don't begrudge Colm, or any other player, and frankly I think that Croke Park (and our own County Board) have gone much too far down the corporate route already. But the GAA can't afford professionalism in players (I honestly believe, and always have, that no-one should be paid in the organisation apart from medical staff - we would be a smaller, but much better organisation and have a far greater social impact). Professionalism for a GAA player is pay for play. This is nothing of the sort.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 15, 2017 13:06:10 GMT
Think the whole think looks very grubby to be honest. I wonder if the charity bit is tacked so companies can class buying a table as a charity donation for tax purposes? Why can't the event be held in anyone of the fine hotels in his hometown and bring some money in locally. This is just an inevitable conclusion. Enquired about a ticket for the minors and got no where but I can pay a grand for a golf day and purchase two tickets. The GAA is slowly but surely eating itself. In fairness the bulk of the proceeds from the golf (all after the expenses of running the event) find their way back to the fund that prepared and looked after the all county teams for the year. The budget for preparing and looking after teams is considerable and it is normal practice to leverage demand for AI final tickets in support of the training fund. This may seem unfair but if you were charged with fundraising you would use any and all means to meet your targets. Parents of some counties minor teams run fund raising events themselves to kit out the team but Kerry look after all teams to a high level and should be commended for this.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 15, 2017 13:09:27 GMT
Not remotely happy about it. A bad precedent. I don't begrudge Colm, or any other player, and frankly I think that Croke Park (and our own County Board) have gone much too far down the corporate route already. But the GAA can't afford professionalism in players (I honestly believe, and always have, that no-one should be paid in the organisation apart from medical staff - we would be a smaller, but much better organisation and have a far greater social impact). These days I'd sooner give the money to Colm than Croke Park - I'll admit that my perception is coloured by the colossal amount of one-sided games in recent years and the sacrifice of a decent club fixture schedule for the financial behemoth of inter-county football. But I'd much sooner give my money (and you are probably talking about even less than the proverbial widow's mite in my case) to that rarity, an honestly run Irish charity, than to either. That tacked-on, cheap advertisement of an undisclosed charity donation of proceeds is quite simply an outright disgrace, in my opinion. Colm has every right to do this, as does every prominent player who retires in the future. But I don't like it, and I wouldn't attend if I was given a free ticket. Where do you stand on players writing a book? If Colm wrote a book would that be alright? Colm is retired so its not pay for play surely!
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 15, 2017 13:11:32 GMT
I noted Colm's line about being old news in 2018. Get in while the going is good.
Look most things boil down to money. Like it or not.This is a business transaction with some distractions. Folks are willing to pay clearly, so this is just an opportunity being acted upon. He's given all of us a lot of sensational entertainment and joy since 2002. Good luck to him.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 15, 2017 13:18:41 GMT
Don't rule out an upcoming McGregor promotion, to host Dublin v Real Madrid in McGregor rules football.
Rules: Still thinking about them
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Post by himself on Sept 15, 2017 14:24:53 GMT
While this isn't professionalism in the sense of pay for play, I do feel that it is a step further down that road. How soon before aspiring talents are assured of such a testimonial after a period of time in a county jersey, to counter the lure of a genuinely professional sport such as AFL, rugby, or soccer? As well as wondering what percentage of the proceeds the nominated charities are getting,I wonder how much the club that trained Colm all through his playing career are getting, or the team-mates who slogged wioth him to those All Ireland triumphs? As I say, my aversion to this is not intended as disrespect towards a player I greatly admire, for his personality as well as his tremendous ability. I simply see this as a big step on a very slippery slope that will do damage long term to gaelic games. A financial reward for one's ability to excel at an amateur sport is, to me, a definite step closer to professionalism. Players producing a product, such as a book, or getting paid to endorse a product, is a business transaction. This testimonial does not involve any tangible or intellectual product, there is no bang for the buck. My only issue with players doing a deal with ghostwriters (Paul Galvin excepted)to write books is that, frankly, they are useless at it.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 15, 2017 14:34:40 GMT
The essential difference for me between the testamonial and other commercial activities that give financial gain is the the charity tag along - leave the charity out of it and call it what it is, a financial pay day and we can either support it or not at our own individual discretion (same as we can buy the book or not). The linking to charity is the element that bugs me most - either run a charity event or don't. Fully agree regards separating the charity link from this, not disclosing the percentage also makes it less palatable. I suspect.they are testing the waters. The bigger the outcry the bigger the percentage will go to charity. Personally if Brogan or Flynner done it i wouldn't like it. Both guys have made good money off endorsements ,which I say good luck to them.Same as the Gooch he has earned the right to promote himself. But something just doesn't sit right about this .
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 15, 2017 14:42:12 GMT
Professionalism is inevitable. The outgoing economic collapse just slowed it down by a decade. Counties like Kerry and Mayo won't sit back but will follow Dublin through the gap. Something will give, we can just keep front ending the demands on the players. The joined up thinking isn't there to maintain an organic GAA. We can't even get four even regions of 8 counties and streamlined fixtutres at club & county level, ffs!
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 15, 2017 14:44:51 GMT
Not remotely happy about it. A bad precedent. I don't begrudge Colm, or any other player, and frankly I think that Croke Park (and our own County Board) have gone much too far down the corporate route already. But the GAA can't afford professionalism in players (I honestly believe, and always have, that no-one should be paid in the organisation apart from medical staff - we would be a smaller, but much better organisation and have a far greater social impact). These days I'd sooner give the money to Colm than Croke Park - I'll admit that my perception is coloured by the colossal amount of one-sided games in recent years and the sacrifice of a decent club fixture schedule for the financial behemoth of inter-county football. But I'd much sooner give my money (and you are probably talking about even less than the proverbial widow's mite in my case) to that rarity, an honestly run Irish charity, than to either. That tacked-on, cheap advertisement of an undisclosed charity donation of proceeds is quite simply an outright disgrace, in my opinion. Colm has every right to do this, as does every prominent player who retires in the future. But I don't like it, and I wouldn't attend if I was given a free ticket. Where do you stand on players writing a book? If Colm wrote a book would that be alright? Colm is retired so its not pay for play surely! What do you mean 'if'?
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tpo
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Post by tpo on Sept 15, 2017 15:43:09 GMT
If Colm Cooper didn't do this some other sport would take up the monies
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kot
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Post by kot on Sept 15, 2017 15:59:42 GMT
Much ado about nothing. Why the hell should he care if people are uneasy with it. He is doing nothing wrong. He probably sacrificed enough professionally to benefit his playing career so if there is an opportunity for him to make a bit of cash in place of it while giving some money to charity then more luck to him. God knows if I could have a testimonial dinner for my Junior B career I would except I would have to probably pay people 500 to turn up.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 15, 2017 16:22:37 GMT
Much ado about nothing. Why the hell should he care if people are uneasy with it. He is doing nothing wrong. He probably sacrificed enough professionally to benefit his playing career so if there is an opportunity for him to make a bit of cash in place of it while giving some money to charity then more luck to him. God knows if I could have a testimonial dinner for my Junior B career I would except I would have to probably pay people 500 to turn up. Man, you really want that testimonial I agree with you. Look, this is not meant to be disrespectful, to the fine scribes on here, just a brutally blunt point. This is evolution, money is the key benchmark, inter-county players won't give a sh!te about the naysaying views on here or anywhere, this is the road ahead, it's happening. It'll have to be sucked up and disdained privately unless someone's thinking of ringing Paul Murphy (the protester lad, not our finest man from Rathmore) - "we won't pay, we won't pay!!!"
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 15, 2017 16:52:02 GMT
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Aodhan
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Post by Aodhan on Sept 15, 2017 18:09:41 GMT
Go for it Gooch, you deserve it, it's a shame he has to include a couple of charities in order to keep many of the baying public at bay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 18:13:29 GMT
Go for it Gooch, you deserve it, it's a shame he has to include a couple of charities in order to keep many of the baying public at bay. You are very wrong here. A lot of posters on this thread believe the fact that Colm includes charities makes this worse. He would be better off just saying all the money is for him rather than muddying the waters by including charities.
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Aodhan
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Post by Aodhan on Sept 15, 2017 19:20:44 GMT
Go for it Gooch, you deserve it, it's a shame he has to include a couple of charities in order to keep many of the baying public at bay. You are very wrong here. A lot of posters on this thread believe the fact that Colm includes charities makes this worse. He would be better off just saying all the money is for him rather than muddying the waters by including charities. I said many not all. A good percentage will give it a pass because of the charities. Obviously Gooch felt he had to do so when really there was no need.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 15, 2017 21:23:15 GMT
It is interesting how this has raised the pay for play issue in people's minds. Not that this event necessarily qualifies, but how it highlights that is where we are heading.
We then hear about the GAA having "misgivings". They do they not understand that Colm Cooper's event is in keeping with the trend whereby the elite players are becoming ever more separate from the rest? In our county, panel players are cocooned from County League games and, in one disgraceful case, an Under-21 County Final.
For what it's worth I don't see Colm Cooper's event as necessarily accelerating the process to professionalism. He is simply mirroring the values that have become prevalent.
There is clearly a group think/consensus in the GAA along the lines that the inter-county game takes precedence over everything, and that incomes needs to be maximised. The benign view is that this money will trickle down and benefit everyone.
We are going to face into a situation next year where we will have a hierarchical league and a championship structure designed to extend the number of games between the very best counties. The elite counties are going to pull further and further away. The Provincial Championships will be even less relevant.
I would love to know what thought/plans the GAA have about pay for play? I'm not saying they are planning for it in secret, or even want it to happen. But they must be aware of how things are progressing - how do they think it would pan out?
I do think Gaelic Football is going to turn professional, or semi-professional, in 10 years or so. I'm not so sure hurling could possibly follow.
So what are the GAA going to do? Will they try and stay in control of professional Gaelic Football? Or will they resist it and stay amateur?
If it is done in an orderly fashion, i.e. within the auspices of the GAA, I would expect there to be perhaps 6 to 8 "franchises" of professional county teams. I doubt any more than that could be sustained and any less would be too few for meaningful competition. Presumably they could play a league home and away which would give a steady diet of games. The top 4 could then go into play-offs.
Needless to say, in the above model, the best players from 'non-franchise' counties would move to the pro teams.
I have no idea realistically how much the players could expect to receive in wages. I honestly don't see how it could be very big when it is effectively Ireland only. Another possibility is that one or two of the "franchises" would be full-time while the rest were semi-pro.
What about everyone else? The club game and an amateur All-Ireland Championship would continue, but without the big names. I think the gaps between the haves and have nots would be too great for automatic promotion/relegation to be a runner. It would be more likely to be a closed shop set-up like the 6 Nations.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Sept 16, 2017 0:31:10 GMT
The only solution is to abandon the inter-county game completely.
In its place we will have the already existing Inter-Firm championship, where the players are bona-fide employees in a permanent and pensionable capacity.
Fairer? Possibly.
Discuss, although we should probably wait for the winter period to officially commence when we where Sam will lay down for 2017.
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Post by glengael on Sept 16, 2017 15:38:57 GMT
It is interesting how this has raised the pay for play issue in people's minds. Not that this event necessarily qualifies, but how it highlights that is where we are heading. We then hear about the GAA having "misgivings". They do they not understand that Colm Cooper's event is in keeping with the trend whereby the elite players are becoming ever more separate from the rest? In our county, panel players are cocooned from County League games and, in one disgraceful case, an Under-21 County Final. For what it's worth I don't see Colm Cooper's event as necessarily accelerating the process to professionalism. He is simply mirroring the values that have become prevalent. There is clearly a group think/consensus in the GAA along the lines that the inter-county game takes precedence over everything, and that incomes needs to be maximised. The benign view is that this money will trickle down and benefit everyone. We are going to face into a situation next year where we will have a hierarchical league and a championship structure designed to extend the number of games between the very best counties. The elite counties are going to pull further and further away. The Provincial Championships will be even less relevant. I would love to know what thought/plans the GAA have about pay for play? I'm not saying they are planning for it in secret, or even want it to happen. But they must be aware of how things are progressing - how do they think it would pan out? I do think Gaelic Football is going to turn professional, or semi-professional, in 10 years or so. I'm not so sure hurling could possibly follow. So what are the GAA going to do? Will they try and stay in control of professional Gaelic Football? Or will they resist it and stay amateur? If it is done in an orderly fashion, i.e. within the auspices of the GAA, I would expect there to be perhaps 6 to 8 "franchises" of professional county teams. I doubt any more than that could be sustained and any less would be too few for meaningful competition. Presumably they could play a league home and away which would give a steady diet of games. The top 4 could then go into play-offs. Needless to say, in the above model, the best players from 'non-franchise' counties would move to the pro teams. I have no idea realistically how much the players could expect to receive in wages. I honestly don't see how it could be very big when it is effectively Ireland only. Another possibility is that one or two of the "franchises" would be full-time while the rest were semi-pro. What about everyone else? The club game and an amateur All-Ireland Championship would continue, but without the big names. I think the gaps between the haves and have nots would be too great for automatic promotion/relegation to be a runner. It would be more likely to be a closed shop set-up like the 6 Nations. Well said. This event may be a sign of things to come, an acceleration of the 2 and then possibly 3 tier system with the elite moving further and further away.
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kot
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Post by kot on Sept 18, 2017 8:32:18 GMT
On a lighter note, saw a funny tweet today that we should organise a testimonial dinner for Clifford and give him all the money so that he stays away from Australia!
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