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Post by Mickmack on Sept 15, 2017 23:48:49 GMT
Stephen Coen hoping long road to Croke Park ends in Mayo glory
Thursday, September 14, 2017 By John Fogarty GAA Correspondent
For six straight years between 2004 and 2009, Kerry players marked autumn by the failing evening light as they trained in Fitzgerald Stadium. Stephen Coen has measured it the last two seasons by getting back on the bus from Dublin to Mayo.
Mayo's Stephen Coen at a press conference at Breaffy House Hotel, Co Mayo. Picture: Seb Daly In the final year of his agricultural science degree in UCD, he returned to Belfield on Monday having spent the summer at home. It meant getting back on board with the rest of the Dublin-based players in Stephen Rochford’s panel, who have been returning for training once during the week and at weekends.
The bilocation of the Mayo panel is a moot point. Former backroom team member and Irish Examiner columnist Ed Coughlan believes those logistics have held them back. Rochford is more diplomatic: “From a Division 1 perspective, between ourselves and Donegal, we have the larger demand on players commuting. But Dublin is the capital of the country and that’s where a lot of the jobs are, a lot of the top jobs, and where an awful lot of guys go to college. I think in the earlier part of the year it’s a lot more challenging. Certainly, from about a mid-May perspective, when lads get home from college, it allows us a bit more time to be consistent with what we’re trying on the field.”
The journey this week couldn’t be shorter for Coen. Besides, he knows he has it easier than others like Seamus O’Shea and Tom Parsons, who work in the capital. “For me, personally, from January to May I have to travel up and down. Now, I’m in college so recovery is a lot easier for me. In UCD you have a gym and a pool right on your doorstep so it is very easy for me to recover the next day after training. But I suppose for the guys working it must be very difficult. At the same time, they still have to get the work done while they’re training. At the same time, we have good craic coming up and down so it’s not too bad.”
In the earlier part of the year, the likes of Tony McEntee and Donie Buckley would have taken midweek sessions with the Dublin-based crew with the entire panel meeting for training in Castlebar on Fridays. Aidan O’Shea has admitted he moved home to aid his football career.
It’s a choice Coen knows he might have to make next year. “That’s something I’ll have to consider but I suppose I’ll have to consider my studies as well and whether I want to advance my education. That’s important too, not just football. Look, we don’t have to do this. We don’t have to play for Mayo if we don’t want to but we all want to and if that’s what it takes that’s what we’ll do.”
Living with Monaghan starlet Conor McCarthy, Kerry’s Barry O’Sullivan, and Kilkenny hurler James Meagher, Coen is immersed in GAA in UCD. The Dublin trio of Jack McCaffrey, Mick Fitzsimons, and Con O’Callaghan are also college mates. “We have good craic, but will respect each other’s privacy the week before the game to see where it goes after that. We know a lot about each other, both groups do. It is about trying to focus on each other’s weaknesses now to make the most of that.”
Not 22 until December, Coen started the games against Galway and Derry but has been a substitute in the other seven championship outings this year. There have been a few blips along the way. He could have done better for both Cork goals in the qualifier in the Gaelic Grounds while he was intercepted for the free that led to Luke Connolly’s equaliser. “With the pace of the game being very, very quick at inter-county level, you just have to get up to it. If you are that bit off, you’ll make those mistakes, but then you have other days when you can pitch in straight away, get your first touch out of the way, you just get going then, same as everyone else.”
Last year’s All-Ireland U21-winning captain also fouled the ball, which gave Enda Smith the platform to give Roscommon a second bite of the cherry in the All-Ireland quarter-final. Those incidents aside, Coen has been a steady presence when introduced in a variety of roles.
“We train to deal with any situation really because you could be earmarked to play someone, you could be midfield or you could be at full-back. It’s the same when you’re a substitute. There are one of nine fellas that could come and mark so you just have to trust your instinct because these games take on a life of their own and you just have to deal with it. You have to go with your instinct because you literally haven’t any time. In fairness to Stephen, he isn’t afraid to make any call. He will put you in if he thinks you are good enough to play.”
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 16, 2017 1:18:29 GMT
I find it impossible to call the final on Sunday. I don’t think it will be a classic – it will be a series of well rehearsed drills, most initiated by kickouts. There won't be more than a few points in it in the end. Dublin will do the usual – play the “horseshoe” pattern – get the ball into the corner, feed it back and across the half forward line into the other corner. Step two: repeat step one continuously until an opening is found, usually near the centre forward position where an off the shoulder runner or a runner on the loop can cut through the centre. This almost always results in a score. If Mayo can reduce the scores coming from this Dublin may not get enough to win. Dublin have a few tactics for winning possession from the opposition. One is to literally throw their body at the player in possession, sometimes recklessly. The ball is invariably coughed up. They appear to have worked on this on and off the pitch so trying to resist it is futile. The simple antidote to it is to have the player in possession turn their back at the last second so the action becomes an aggressive shoulder in the back - a definite free and maybe a yellow card. They also pull/push at the elbows of the player in possession who is trying to kick/solo the ball. The solution if soloing is not to run a straight predictable line, or alternatively to let the player get near enough to get the legs entangled – a sure free kick. Fenton and Mannion are particularly good at this and getting away with it. So I don’t think Dublin are unbeatable. Mayo are battle hardened. They are not beaten until 10 minutes after the final whistle, after time added on, after extra time. They will have to keep Dublin’s score as low as possible. They will have to take all the chances they get. Their game plan is much less complicated than Dublin’s. Most of their defenders are traditional tight markers. They have several players that can go forward and take scores. Dublin feed on success as the game progresses. Kildare knew this and gave them the toughest game they got so far. Based purely on resilience I will give a hesitant vote to Mayo. Would there be any chance at all that Dublin just have lots of good players and this usually results in them beating the opposition? To read some of the *e on here we can't win a game unless McQuillan gives us a leg up or we cheat to fcuk by pulling or pushing elbows. Everyone else by comparison are choirboys. Kildare btw were beaten by 12 I think but maybe the consolation goal reduced that margin. What I think is this. Every pundit outside Dublin is hoping to Christ that Mayo win and they then come up with some hairy arsed logic usually involving a gut feeling in the pit of their stomach allied to Mayo deserving it. Along with a pile of *e about Mayo improving as they went. Some truth in this. The flip side of that argument is that Dublin would have despatched every opposition Mayo played by 8 points or more, impalatable as it may seem to the like of Kerry. Even Canavan is at it. Although for the past few years he has tipped Mayo and Kerry so that tells you something about his anti Dubness. Dublin have a score to settle here and I will be having a slice of -6 on the handicap.
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Post by donegalman on Sept 16, 2017 2:38:06 GMT
I find it impossible to call the final on Sunday. I don’t think it will be a classic – it will be a series of well rehearsed drills, most initiated by kickouts. There won't be more than a few points in it in the end. Dublin will do the usual – play the “horseshoe” pattern – get the ball into the corner, feed it back and across the half forward line into the other corner. Step two: repeat step one continuously until an opening is found, usually near the centre forward position where an off the shoulder runner or a runner on the loop can cut through the centre. This almost always results in a score. If Mayo can reduce the scores coming from this Dublin may not get enough to win. Dublin have a few tactics for winning possession from the opposition. One is to literally throw their body at the player in possession, sometimes recklessly. The ball is invariably coughed up. They appear to have worked on this on and off the pitch so trying to resist it is futile. The simple antidote to it is to have the player in possession turn their back at the last second so the action becomes an aggressive shoulder in the back - a definite free and maybe a yellow card. They also pull/push at the elbows of the player in possession who is trying to kick/solo the ball. The solution if soloing is not to run a straight predictable line, or alternatively to let the player get near enough to get the legs entangled – a sure free kick. Fenton and Mannion are particularly good at this and getting away with it. So I don’t think Dublin are unbeatable. Mayo are battle hardened. They are not beaten until 10 minutes after the final whistle, after time added on, after extra time. They will have to keep Dublin’s score as low as possible. They will have to take all the chances they get. Their game plan is much less complicated than Dublin’s. Most of their defenders are traditional tight markers. They have several players that can go forward and take scores. Dublin feed on success as the game progresses. Kildare knew this and gave them the toughest game they got so far. Based purely on resilience I will give a hesitant vote to Mayo. Would there be any chance at all that Dublin just have lots of good players and this usually results in them beating the opposition? To read some of the *e on here we can't win a game unless McQuillan gives us a leg up or we cheat to fcuk by pulling or pushing elbows. Everyone else by comparison are choirboys. Kildare btw were beaten by 12 I think but maybe the consolation goal reduced that margin. What I think is this. Every pundit outside Dublin is hoping to Christ that Mayo win and they then come up with some hairy arsed logic usually involving a gut feeling in the pit of their stomach allied to Mayo deserving it. Along with a pile of *e about Mayo improving as they went. Some truth in this. The flip side of that argument is that Dublin would have despatched every opposition Mayo played by 8 points or more, impalatable as it may seem to the like of Kerry. Even Canavan is at it. Although for the past few years he has tipped Mayo and Kerry so that tells you something about his anti Dubness. Dublin have a score to settle here and I will be having a slice of -6 on the handicap. That's a bit over the top. More like most people want mayo to win because they are starved of all Ireland success and they keep coming back. Dublin have been by far the best team over the past few years. I don't think there is arguing against this. picking a winner by a feeling in your stomach is a curious way of predicting and never gets u far in the bookies. Just ask anyone who backed McGregor last month if they would go by gut instinct again and they probably would look at form and logic. Whatever sells papers though...
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2017 9:24:49 GMT
I think it comes down to this at the end of the day.... Will Dublin match Mayos raw hunger for 75 mins.
If winning 3inarow is as important to Dublin as Mayo winning ONE then I think Dublin will come through. There is not the same excitement in Dublins fans i think though.... the thing is becoming routine.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 16, 2017 10:13:38 GMT
Given that Dublin now play every league game in Croke park, it is worth 3 points minimum. Add in a local ref and you have another 3 points there.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2017 10:52:53 GMT
Carlow have given dublin their toughest game so far....maybe Carlow were good, maybe Dublin were sluggish or maybe its because it wasnt in Croker!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 12:09:02 GMT
Well the handicap was around 20 for the Carlow game yet dublin only won by 12. I think even the bookies have not factored in the full benefit of Dublin playing in croke park.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2017 12:17:06 GMT
The Galways hurlers familiarity with Croker since they moved to Leinster does them no harm either
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 16, 2017 12:36:09 GMT
I find it impossible to call the final on Sunday. I don’t think it will be a classic – it will be a series of well rehearsed drills, most initiated by kickouts. There won't be more than a few points in it in the end. Dublin will do the usual – play the “horseshoe” pattern – get the ball into the corner, feed it back and across the half forward line into the other corner. Step two: repeat step one continuously until an opening is found, usually near the centre forward position where an off the shoulder runner or a runner on the loop can cut through the centre. This almost always results in a score. If Mayo can reduce the scores coming from this Dublin may not get enough to win. Dublin have a few tactics for winning possession from the opposition. One is to literally throw their body at the player in possession, sometimes recklessly. The ball is invariably coughed up. They appear to have worked on this on and off the pitch so trying to resist it is futile. The simple antidote to it is to have the player in possession turn their back at the last second so the action becomes an aggressive shoulder in the back - a definite free and maybe a yellow card. They also pull/push at the elbows of the player in possession who is trying to kick/solo the ball. The solution if soloing is not to run a straight predictable line, or alternatively to let the player get near enough to get the legs entangled – a sure free kick. Fenton and Mannion are particularly good at this and getting away with it. So I don’t think Dublin are unbeatable. Mayo are battle hardened. They are not beaten until 10 minutes after the final whistle, after time added on, after extra time. They will have to keep Dublin’s score as low as possible. They will have to take all the chances they get. Their game plan is much less complicated than Dublin’s. Most of their defenders are traditional tight markers. They have several players that can go forward and take scores. Dublin feed on success as the game progresses. Kildare knew this and gave them the toughest game they got so far. Based purely on resilience I will give a hesitant vote to Mayo. Would there be any chance at all that Dublin just have lots of good players and this usually results in them beating the opposition? To read some of the *e on here we can't win a game unless McQuillan gives us a leg up or we cheat to fcuk by pulling or pushing elbows. Everyone else by comparison are choirboys. Kildare btw were beaten by 12 I think but maybe the consolation goal reduced that margin. What I think is this. Every pundit outside Dublin is hoping to Christ that Mayo win and they then come up with some hairy arsed logic usually involving a gut feeling in the pit of their stomach allied to Mayo deserving it. Along with a pile of *e about Mayo improving as they went. Some truth in this. The flip side of that argument is that Dublin would have despatched every opposition Mayo played by 8 points or more, impalatable as it may seem to the like of Kerry. Even Canavan is at it. Although for the past few years he has tipped Mayo and Kerry so that tells you something about his anti Dubness. Dublin have a score to settle here and I will be having a slice of -6 on the handicap. Surprised at this SkyBlue. Dublin get tons of praise on here and everywhere and everyone appreciates the quality of their players and management. What's wrong with non-Dublin folks wanting Mayo to win. The truth is this Dublin team has never easily dispatched Mayo in Championship since 2012. Every meeting is a major battle. I expect the same tomorrow.The truth is Dublin have beaten nothing this year. The question is how much Dublin have made the opposition into nothing, seems reasonable that they did considerably. The last tough game Dublin had was the league final. They had the bulk of their team out that day, Con O , Cooper, McCaffrey aside. Mannion has obviously improved massively since then . It still doesn't remove the evidence that they were completely dominated for the first 25 mins of second half by direct runners attacking them. Mayo seem to have lots of this style. Dublin are definitely much slicker and stronger now but Mayo definitely are too. I think Dublin may still win but expect you to lose your bet
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 16, 2017 13:28:24 GMT
Carlow have given dublin their toughest game so far....maybe Carlow were good, maybe Dublin were sluggish or maybe its because it wasnt in Croker! There is no doubt Dublin would have won by more if the game was in Croke park. Carlow possibly gave Dublin their toughest game , more because of where Dublin were at in training as much as where the game was played. There is absolutely no doubt Dublin have an advantage playing in Crokepark, being the Capital City Dublin are also very fortunate that players don't have to make long commutes to training either. These are advantages that didn't help Dublin in the noughties , because the players weren't good enough to beat Kerry or Tyrone. Now these adavantages definetly help a very good Dublin team. Leinster teams are finding it harder and harder ( although with no hurling to contend with Meath and Kildare should be doing better) How much Croker helps against Kerry, Mayo , Tyrone is hard to quantify. Mayo have played there many times this year and Kerry and Tyrone have said previously that playing in Croker against the Dubs was a great incentive. Either way it's totally understandable that most counties want Mayo to win. Personally I just want to Dubs to put in a good performance and we will see what that gets them.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2017 13:48:58 GMT
Colm O'Rourke has a point - Dublin's Blue Wave is not for breaking
Updated / Saturday, 16 Sep 2017 12:35 20
By Conor Neville RTÉ Sport reporter One Dublin player had enough.
For a year or more, he had endured the debate about their increasing domination of Gaelic football and listened to insinuations about the team's supposed 'professionalism' relative to their rivals.
Now, he decided to speak out.
"Professionalism is a tag I have come to resent," he wrote. "It has usually been used in a derogatory sense, to imply that our achievements have been easily bought rather than being the product of honest endeavour, skill and a little know-how."
The words were written by Tony Hanahoe, Dublin's centre-forward, captain and manager during the 1977 and 1978 seasons.
He was writing for Magill magazine, then in its first incarnation under the editorship of Vincent Browne. The article is preserved online on the Politico.ie website.
Former Dublin captain and manager Tony Hanahoe (L) with his Kerry rival Mick O'Dwyer. The piece appeared in the October 1978 edition, a week after Dublin blew their chance of a three-in-a-row following a spectacular second-half implosion against Kerry.
Just underneath the headline, a sub-editor teed up the article by asking: "How did the reputedly unbeatable Super Dubs suffer such an abject defeat to Kerry?"
The 'reputedly unbeatable super Dubs' would go on to demonstrate their beatability time and again over the subsequent decades, racking up only two titles in 32 years.
This little speck of archival material might be seized upon by those Dublin fans wary of the current narrative about their team and where it might lead (and we know where that is because Colm O'Rourke has told us).
'See, periods of Dublin dominance have always been greeted with outsized panic by rival counties,' they might say.
'Because Dublin is a place apart obviously and so-called neutrals can't accept their dominance like they can other counties. But the cycle always turns and this is no different from any other era.'
As far as Dublin's future goes, the debate is split into two camps: those who subscribe to the cyclical theory of Gaelic football (as outlined above) and what we might call the 'end of history' theorists.
These Francis Fukuyamas of Gaelic football commentary insist that the jump-start Dublin received in the shape of development money back in the noughties has allowed them to exploit their already mammoth population advantage and establish a gap between themselves and the rest which will be impossible to bridge, even in the long term.
Those wondering about the future of the All-Ireland football championship need only look at the state of the Leinster championship now, they say.
Once upon a time, supporters of strong sides in other provinces used to shrug that the standard in the rest of Leinster was poor in any event.
This bold and rather blasé talk was quietened somewhat after Ulster's best team (by a mile) were destroyed in Croke Park on the final Sunday of August. It was a sobering afternoon for the neutrals.
'What if we're all the 'rest of Leinster' now?', the more fatalistic muttered in a horrified whisper.
The most vocal advocates of the cyclical 'golden generation' argument are former Dublin footballers and supporters and Kerry chaps who are afraid of showing weakness.
(While Dublin supporters would view the splitting of their county as a hostile act of sacrilege, Kerry fellas would, one suspects, regard it more as an admission of defeat).
The likes of Ciaran Whelan, for instance, have insisted in the past that we are simply witnessing a golden generation of the type that has occasionally surfaced in other counties. This generation of players, most especially Stephen Cluxton, will be extremely hard to replace when they drift away, no matter how state-of-the-art the conveyor belt that has been constructed.
Those on the other side of the argument insist this is hopelessly naive, pointing to the ominous level of turnover in personnel already witnessed in Dublin since 2013.
Dublin were easily able to squash the runaway Ulster champions while leaving two former Footballer of the Year winners sitting on the bench.
Diarmuid Connolly (L) replaced Con O'Callaghan in the final minute of Dublin's semi-final win The most adored player among the supporters, meanwhile, was introduced with only a minute remaining, largely it seems for the purposes of generating a cheer from the Hill.
The Man of the Match from the 2011 All-Ireland final - still in his twenties - has slipped off the radar at county level and is now contemplating a transfer to Monaghan.
And their third team - comprised of club players who don't get a look-in in summertime - won the O'Byrne Cup earlier this year while the 2016 All-Ireland winning panel was in Jamaica.
One current inter-county footballer who previously worked as a Games Development Officer in Dublin is fairly emphatic in his view.
Ciaran Reddin captained Dublin to O'Byrne Cup success - he has not played a single minute of Championship football in 2017 "Look, this isn't a once a generation team. This is a huge problem that the GAA is after creating. This is a monster that's been created here. It's getting stronger and all the other counties are getting weaker. That's the way I see it," he tells RTÉ Sport.
"The numbers Dublin GAA have are just frightening. The resources they have are just frightening. I think it's only going to get worse, to be honest with you. It's a professional organisation against amateurs and people can brush it up anyway they want. That's what it is.
"The GAA has created this animal and it's roaring now and they can't do anything about it. Look at the sponsorship Dublin GAA has. Counties around the country struggle to get 50 grand off their main sponsor whereas Dublin are getting 100 grand from maybe their tenth sponsor!"
The games development machine in Dublin is certainly something to behold. The work of IT Tallaght researcher Shane Mangan has already been well circulated, indicating that Dublin receives vastly greater amount of development funding per registered player than any other county.
Most serious clubs in Dublin have a games development officer attached to them and some of the bigger ones have two working with them. In most cases, half their salary is paid by the county board while the other half is paid by the club.
Where clubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden employ more than one full-time coach, one is subsidised by the county board and the other is paid by the club.
Some of the smaller clubs have development officers working for them on a part-time basis.
Counties like Laois and Clare - admittedly places with much smaller populations - have only four full-time coaches serving the entire county.
While Dublin's financial advantage dates back to the Bertie Ahern era, it is only six years since Dublin GAA unveiled their 'Unleashing the Blue Wave, 2011-17' document, a plan to turn the capital into the leading GAA county.
(The document, by the way, requested that Dublin be granted the status of a 'province' for administrative purposes while still holding that any attempt to split the county for playing purposes was too offensive to discuss).
Six years on, it feels like 'Unleashing the Blue Tsunami' would have been a more appropriate title. The rest of Leinster has already been engulfed by the floods and is in danger of becoming a wasteland on the inter-county scene.
Dublin may yet stumble in their three-in-a-row attempt like Tony Hanahoe's team of 1978. In recent years, they've only squeezed by a highly stubborn and incredibly hungry Mayo team (truly a golden generation in their own county).
But even if they trip up on Sunday - and the bookies believe that is unlikely - the state-of-the-art production line will continue to crank out players of frightening quality.
All evidence points to Dublin dominating the sport for many years yet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 14:21:28 GMT
Very interesting comments by Reddin.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2017 14:48:07 GMT
Very interesting comments by Reddin. Refreshingly honest. You get sick of the weasel words and talk about a once off golden generation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 15:00:03 GMT
Unusual for someone actually involved in Dublin gaa to say this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 15:02:10 GMT
In terms of the game itself, I can see Flynn starting for scully. Mayo I think will start as selected.
Cannot see past the dubs here. Their defenders are much better than the Kerry ones and I think they will frustrate mayo initially, grind them down and eventually win by 5 points.
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 16, 2017 15:20:57 GMT
Would there be any chance at all that Dublin just have lots of good players and this usually results in them beating the opposition? To read some of the *e on here we can't win a game unless McQuillan gives us a leg up or we cheat to fcuk by pulling or pushing elbows. Everyone else by comparison are choirboys. Kildare btw were beaten by 12 I think but maybe the consolation goal reduced that margin. What I think is this. Every pundit outside Dublin is hoping to Christ that Mayo win and they then come up with some hairy arsed logic usually involving a gut feeling in the pit of their stomach allied to Mayo deserving it. Along with a pile of *e about Mayo improving as they went. Some truth in this. The flip side of that argument is that Dublin would have despatched every opposition Mayo played by 8 points or more, impalatable as it may seem to the like of Kerry. Even Canavan is at it. Although for the past few years he has tipped Mayo and Kerry so that tells you something about his anti Dubness. Dublin have a score to settle here and I will be having a slice of -6 on the handicap. Surprised at this SkyBlue. Dublin get tons of praise on here and everywhere and everyone appreciates the quality of their players and management. What's wrong with non-Dublin folks wanting Mayo to win. The truth is this Dublin team has never easily dispatched Mayo in Championship since 2012. Every meeting is a major battle. I expect the same tomorrow.The truth is Dublin have beaten nothing this year. The question is how much Dublin have made the opposition into nothing, seems reasonable that they did considerably. The last tough game Dublin had was the league final. They had the bulk of their team out that day, Con O , Cooper, McCaffrey aside. Mannion has obviously improved massively since then . It still doesn't remove the evidence that they were completely dominated for the first 25 mins of second half by direct runners attacking them. Mayo seem to have lots of this style. Dublin are definitely much slicker and stronger now but Mayo definitely are too. I think Dublin may still win but expect you to lose your bet Absolutely understand neutrals wanting Mayo to win. Of be cheering for them myself if they weren't playing our lads. I just think that the majority of pundits are starting at the finish and working backwards in terms of their analysis. What I mean is they hope Mayo win and write a narrative to fit that hope. A few exceptions like Tomas and Quirke actually. But most seemingly opting for Mayo because of a "gut feeling", exhibit A Bomber Liston. Of course Mayo have a chance, they both do in a two horse race. But you would expect a little more science from some of them, they are getting paid to convey their thoughts. For example I don't think Mayo have beaten Dublin in there last 11 attempts, I had to dig deep to find that nugget. That should be front and center of most columns. But it's replaced by "if Mayo disrupt Cluxton, tie down Cian o'Sullivan, play Aidan o'Shea in 4 positions at the same time, and prevent a Dublin goal then Mayo to win by a point". That's a lot of ifs. I'd say Jim Gavin will have thought of a few himself though. Btw the latest this morning was David Brady saying Mayo lads should kick the ball off the tee to annoy Cluxton. They will take it in turns to do this he said, as its a yellow card offence. Plus the act of booking the player will take up more time. And Brady was serious. He's getting money for jam with that level of analysis.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 16, 2017 15:31:28 GMT
Skybluezone - David Brady can forever make stupid statements and will still refer back to his idea to play Aidan O Shea full back on Donaghy!
I think Mayo need to turn this into a chaotic game, take 80% of scoring chances, keep Dublin to one goal and hope that Joe believes a Mayo win would be good for the GAA.
Don't see it happening. Dublin by 4-6 points.
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Post by glengael on Sept 16, 2017 15:41:25 GMT
Mayo need absolutely everything to go right for 80 mins tomorrow. On the basis that is unlikely to happen , I will go for a Dublin win by 6 to 8 points.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 15:47:23 GMT
Surprised at this SkyBlue. Dublin get tons of praise on here and everywhere and everyone appreciates the quality of their players and management. What's wrong with non-Dublin folks wanting Mayo to win. The truth is this Dublin team has never easily dispatched Mayo in Championship since 2012. Every meeting is a major battle. I expect the same tomorrow.The truth is Dublin have beaten nothing this year. The question is how much Dublin have made the opposition into nothing, seems reasonable that they did considerably. The last tough game Dublin had was the league final. They had the bulk of their team out that day, Con O , Cooper, McCaffrey aside. Mannion has obviously improved massively since then . It still doesn't remove the evidence that they were completely dominated for the first 25 mins of second half by direct runners attacking them. Mayo seem to have lots of this style. Dublin are definitely much slicker and stronger now but Mayo definitely are too. I think Dublin may still win but expect you to lose your bet Absolutely understand neutrals wanting Mayo to win. Of be cheering for them myself if they weren't playing our lads. I just think that the majority of pundits are starting at the finish and working backwards in terms of their analysis. What I mean is they hope Mayo win and write a narrative to fit that hope. A few exceptions like Tomas and Quirke actually. But most seemingly opting for Mayo because of a "gut feeling", exhibit A Bomber Liston. Of course Mayo have a chance, they both do in a two horse race. But you would expect a little more science from some of them, they are getting paid to convey their thoughts. For example I don't think Mayo have beaten Dublin in there last 11 attempts, I had to dig deep to find that nugget. That should be front and center of most columns. But it's replaced by "if Mayo disrupt Cluxton, tie down Cian o'Sullivan, play Aidan o'Shea in 4 positions at the same time, and prevent a Dublin goal then Mayo to win by a point". That's a lot of ifs. I'd say Jim Gavin will have thought of a few himself though. Btw the latest this morning was David Brady saying Mayo lads should kick the ball off the tee to annoy Cluxton. They will take it in turns to do this he said, as its a yellow card offence. Plus the act of booking the player will take up more time. And Brady was serious. He's getting money for jam with that level of analysis. Not sure why you are getting so worked up over the pundits. Firstly most pundits are backing Dublin but you are looking for an excuse to believe everyone is against the dubs so fair enough. If all pundits applied the same approach to looking at the game, then there would be very little diversity in opinion given the record of the two teams.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 16, 2017 18:14:24 GMT
Surprised at this SkyBlue. Dublin get tons of praise on here and everywhere and everyone appreciates the quality of their players and management. What's wrong with non-Dublin folks wanting Mayo to win. The truth is this Dublin team has never easily dispatched Mayo in Championship since 2012. Every meeting is a major battle. I expect the same tomorrow.The truth is Dublin have beaten nothing this year. The question is how much Dublin have made the opposition into nothing, seems reasonable that they did considerably. The last tough game Dublin had was the league final. They had the bulk of their team out that day, Con O , Cooper, McCaffrey aside. Mannion has obviously improved massively since then . It still doesn't remove the evidence that they were completely dominated for the first 25 mins of second half by direct runners attacking them. Mayo seem to have lots of this style. Dublin are definitely much slicker and stronger now but Mayo definitely are too. I think Dublin may still win but expect you to lose your bet Absolutely understand neutrals wanting Mayo to win. Of be cheering for them myself if they weren't playing our lads. I just think that the majority of pundits are starting at the finish and working backwards in terms of their analysis. What I mean is they hope Mayo win and write a narrative to fit that hope. A few exceptions like Tomas and Quirke actually. But most seemingly opting for Mayo because of a "gut feeling", exhibit A Bomber Liston. Of course Mayo have a chance, they both do in a two horse race. But you would expect a little more science from some of them, they are getting paid to convey their thoughts. For example I don't think Mayo have beaten Dublin in there last 11 attempts, I had to dig deep to find that nugget. That should be front and center of most columns. But it's replaced by "if Mayo disrupt Cluxton, tie down Cian o'Sullivan, play Aidan o'Shea in 4 positions at the same time, and prevent a Dublin goal then Mayo to win by a point". That's a lot of ifs. I'd say Jim Gavin will have thought of a few himself though. Btw the latest this morning was David Brady saying Mayo lads should kick the ball off the tee to annoy Cluxton. They will take it in turns to do this he said, as its a yellow card offence. Plus the act of booking the player will take up more time. And Brady was serious. He's getting money for jam with that level of analysis. Methinks you are overly focused if understandably so - Dublin are hot favourites in everyone's mind so a lot of punditry is trying to look at ways how they could be beaten. Ah maybe a bit unfair but the only option is a boring argument of why Dublin will win. I think Dublin will probably prevail by a big margin or Mayo could shade it in a dog fight, ah we all only guessing. Nobody will begrudge the winners and which will be historic either way. All I am hoping for is a thriller and which the pairing is well capable of delivering as they both play purist type football, taking the game to the opposition. There isn't a weak man on either panel so it is well set up for a memorable contest. Enjoy it man, yez had quiet years and as is the nature of these things - savour these precious moments and the memories will stay with you for ever, happy days.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 16, 2017 22:28:20 GMT
Very interesting comments by Reddin. Refreshingly honest. You get sick of the weasel words and talk about a once off golden generation. Ciaran Reddin didn't say that, the two lines are mixed up. He just mentions that Reddin didn't get game time after captaining the OBC team. Do you really think a current player is going to say that. Think about it .
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 16, 2017 23:52:20 GMT
Refreshingly honest. You get sick of the weasel words and talk about a once off golden generation. Ciaran Reddin didn't say that, the two lines are mixed up. He just mentions that Reddin didn't get game time after captaining the OBC team. Do you really think a current player is going to say that. Think about it . Do you think this is "fake news", "post truth" or. "Alternative facts".
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 17, 2017 0:02:50 GMT
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 17, 2017 0:40:50 GMT
I can see Mayo getting close if their legs can do the distance -maybe Dublin will run 'em into the ground and launch Connolly, et al to open 'em up.
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1979
Full Member
Posts: 97
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Post by 1979 on Sept 17, 2017 6:30:48 GMT
What's the story with the Dubs not naming a full panel?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 17, 2017 6:42:15 GMT
I can see mayo doing this- I really think that they have the tools to. My only issue being that they don't seem to win tight games and you won't pull away from Dublin- however I think they can do it today and win by 2
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Post by kerryboy83 on Sept 17, 2017 7:20:08 GMT
I would be surprised if Dublin don't win this. Too much firepower to come in of the bench. Losing the league final was probably the best thing that happened this Dublin team. Dublin to win by 6-8 pts
As a matter of interest, where do people think Aidan O Se will play? I heard John Maughan calling for him to be played full forward. I think Philly will b licking his lips if this happens!
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Post by augustafield on Sept 17, 2017 9:26:45 GMT
Will Cooper and McMahon give Moran and O Connor the freedom of Croke Park and stand back from them like our ' so called markers ' ? To coin a phrase ' will they f... . True the Dubs have not been tested this year in the race for Sam but Mayo have and look at the quality of the teams that tried them including Kerry . What would the Dubs do to those teams ... ? Dubs made Tyrone look woeful - a Tyrone team that was grossly overrated - if not then pity Mayo today - and Mayo made our team look like ' little boys lost ' so the Final is contested by the two best teams . We don't want the Dubs to win from a purely selfish point of view - a three in a row leads to a real possibility of a four in a row and a not improbable five in a row . But asking/expecting Mayo to stop these Dubs is a bridge too far . The Dubs to copper fasten their greatness and in doing so to confirm Mayo's perennial losers tag .
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 17, 2017 10:29:09 GMT
Ciaran Reddin didn't say that, the two lines are mixed up. He just mentions that Reddin didn't get game time after captaining the OBC team. Do you really think a current player is going to say that. Think about it . Do you think this is "fake news", "post truth" or. "Alternative facts". No, just a simple misinterpretation by some because of a misplaced line. Here's hoping for a good game today and both teams play to their best.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 17, 2017 10:31:07 GMT
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