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Post by kerrygold on Sept 26, 2017 20:16:10 GMT
Chill out there Skybluezone. Do you want me to post up Gavins tirade about the ref after the league final and how he wanted the usual suspects back for the summer. Is that a threat??? Seriously Mick its not kindergarten. You constantly damn Dublin with faint praise. Tiresome stuff. They are great but the resources, Dubs park, Dublin Joe and Dublin Gough and Dublin Coldrick always seem to swing it Dublins way in your eyes. There are none so blind etc etc...If the queen had balls she'd be the king. Did it ever cross your mind that Cluxton, maybe Dublins most important player ever, was a fully fledged inter county player in 2001? A long time before AIG O2 Vodafone or even the Irish Sports Council were funding the Big Blue Bear. What im trying to say is that maybe talent combined with commitment might have something to do with the current status quo. Is it the preserve of all Dublin teams now in Croker to march behind the band on the crowd side? Dublin did all summer and the Dublin ladies did also last Sunday. Looks like an established protocol now. It also seems to allow the team on that side to be the aggressor in the pre-match handshake. All relevant in a game of inches.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 26, 2017 20:53:17 GMT
Is that a threat??? Seriously Mick its not kindergarten. You constantly damn Dublin with faint praise. Tiresome stuff. They are great but the resources, Dubs park, Dublin Joe and Dublin Gough and Dublin Coldrick always seem to swing it Dublins way in your eyes. There are none so blind etc etc...If the queen had balls she'd be the king. Did it ever cross your mind that Cluxton, maybe Dublins most important player ever, was a fully fledged inter county player in 2001? A long time before AIG O2 Vodafone or even the Irish Sports Council were funding the Big Blue Bear. What im trying to say is that maybe talent combined with commitment might have something to do with the current status quo. Is it the preserve of all Dublin teams now in Croker to march behind the band on the crowd side? Dublin did all summer and the Dublin ladies did also last Sunday. Looks like an established protocol now. It also seems to allow the team on that side to be the aggressor in the pre-match handshake. All relevant in a game of inches. Brilliant . Another to add to the lIst of advantages for the Dubs. 😊
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 26, 2017 20:54:43 GMT
Great post AWB and Rashers too. We are not that far behind the Dubs. Splitting up Dublin, complaining about their numbers, (money and players), their personalities, their proximity to Croker, their history with refs or their new cars wont bring Sam back to Kerry. People were kinda laughing at Micko talking about bringing the likes of David Clifford into training and how he would train him. He has a point. Give the youth a chance. It worked before. It'll work again. So if Kerry beat Dublin, all the existential problems facing the GAA will be gone! Is that how you see it?
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 26, 2017 21:02:30 GMT
Is it the preserve of all Dublin teams now in Croker to march behind the band on the crowd side? Dublin did all summer and the Dublin ladies did also last Sunday. Looks like an established protocol now. It also seems to allow the team on that side to be the aggressor in the pre-match handshake. All relevant in a game of inches. Brilliant . Another to add to the lIst of advantages for the Dubs. 😊 Light a fag there altogether, it might create a better smoke screen.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 26, 2017 21:10:19 GMT
Cluxton was a soccer kid in Coolock growing up. He went to St Davids School in Artane where Brian Talty was teaching and looking after the GAA team.
Anyway, Talty persuaded Cluxton to try the GAA for the school team and the rest is history.
(Talty didnt come out for the second half of the 1983 final after a clash in the tunnel at half time).
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 26, 2017 21:11:55 GMT
Is that a threat??? Seriously Mick its not kindergarten. You constantly damn Dublin with faint praise. Tiresome stuff. They are great but the resources, Dubs park, Dublin Joe and Dublin Gough and Dublin Coldrick always seem to swing it Dublins way in your eyes. There are none so blind etc etc...If the queen had balls she'd be the king. Did it ever cross your mind that Cluxton, maybe Dublins most important player ever, was a fully fledged inter county player in 2001? A long time before AIG O2 Vodafone or even the Irish Sports Council were funding the Big Blue Bear. What im trying to say is that maybe talent combined with commitment might have something to do with the current status quo. Is it the preserve of all Dublin teams now in Croker to march behind the band on the crowd side? Dublin did all summer and the Dublin ladies did also last Sunday. Looks like an established protocol now. It also seems to allow the team on that side to be the aggressor in the pre-match handshake. All relevant in a game of inches. Are you serious? If you are saying teams lose to Dublin because of whWhy they stand in the parade and pre match handshake then that's a sad indictment of the mental fragility of our inter county footballers both male and female. Forget the Dubs are just downright better than most teams. Why would it matter what side of the parade you are on? Ive spoken to one or two lads that have played in Croker. The parade on a big day is just a wall of noise is their opinion and the parade is just a formality to get over with, like meeting the President. They said the only time support and noise is important is when your struggling and they can provide a lift.
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Post by veteran on Sept 26, 2017 21:30:15 GMT
Whatever the merits or demerits of the arguments made by our Dublin friends -Rashers , Blue Panther , Slybluezone- they make a huge contribution to this forum. Generally what they say is balanced and intelligible. I hope they continue in spite of some heated exchanges subsequent to Dublin's victory. Dublin are the worthy champions.
My sentiments also apply to the other non Kerry contributors here. Contrary viewpoints are necessary for the continued health of this forum. Otherwise the opinions expressed become stale and ultimately delusional. Cross fertilisation good, incest bad.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 26, 2017 21:31:33 GMT
Congrats to Dublin but Poor, poor aul Mayo .. good grief, how do they cope A combination of Donal Vaughan losing the plot & getting sent off and Roachfords ludicrous decisions to take off A Moran, S O'Shay, C Boyle, K Higgins, K McLoughlin & J Doherty (6 of his most experienced players) with 5-10 mins to go is what cost Mayo yet again .. well that and their lamentable inability to "believe" they can win it .... There's no way Roachford should have taken those guys off .. no way Andy Moran did his hamstring. See below Seamus OShea has only 50 mins in him in any game Colm Boyle got a huge wallop from John Small I dont know the reasons for Higgins, Doherty or McLaughlin being taken off...maybe they were spun out The substitution of Andy Moran with around eight minutes of normal time to go in the All-Ireland final was lamented by many in the game's post-mortem. As Dublin brought big names off the bench, Mayo lost their top scorer from play in this year's Championship. Moran had 0-03 to his name at the time.
It was remarkable that he had lasted until the 62nd minute. Speaking on Tuesday, shortly after accepting the PwC GAA/GPA Player of the Month Award for August, Moran explained that he had suffered a Grade 1 hamstring tear 15 minutes earlier.
Incredibly, Moran said that he had never suffered a hamstring injury prior to that moment. It was an ailment he did not recognise.
Jason Doherty's goal chance, I hurt my hamstring. I've never hurt my hamstring before so I didn't realise it was a hamstring. I played on for about 15 minutes but it was probably time to get me off. Initially, Moran thought the pain was due to an impact with Dublin corner-back Michael Fitzsimons. His game intelligence allowed him to still play a major part in the game - he provided the assist for Lee Keegan's 53rd minute goal while injured.
"It just felt like it was a slap against it. I never really had it before. So I didn't know what it was. I kept playing on and didn't feel too bad; I knew I couldn't go 40 yards down the pitch so I needed to just be a small bit smarter in how I was moving."
Moran believes the injury will keep him out for the remainder of the year. It means he will be unable to line out for Ballaghaderreen in this weekend's Mayo SFC game against Breaffy.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 26, 2017 21:41:05 GMT
Great post AWB and Rashers too. We are not that far behind the Dubs. Splitting up Dublin, complaining about their numbers, (money and players), their personalities, their proximity to Croker, their history with refs or their new cars wont bring Sam back to Kerry. People were kinda laughing at Micko talking about bringing the likes of David Clifford into training and how he would train him. He has a point. Give the youth a chance. It worked before. It'll work again. So if Kerry beat Dublin, all the existential problems facing the GAA will be gone! Is that how you see it? Listening to Jackie Tyrell on the radio this evening . He said when he was playing for ,Kilkenny they were professional in all but name. They wanted for nothing The county board made sure they had everything. All they had to worry about was preparing for games. Leaving aside the agreed disparity between Dublin and small counties. The advantage Dublin have over a lot of teams getting to play games in crokepark. Do you think Kerry lads are at a disadvantage when it comes to preparing for an All Ireland semifinal compared to Dublin. As regards training, nutrition and rest.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 26, 2017 22:06:50 GMT
I dont know enough about the Kerry set up to answer your question.
I dont know how professional the set up it as regards Strength and conditioning, nutrition and everything else. There seems to be a small army involved in Dublins set up compared to Kerrys but I dont know what difference that makes. Certainly having to commute long distances is a problem for some counties especially Mayo. Not to many KK hurlers had long commutes.
I have said consistently on here that Kerry are behind Mayo since 2015 because Kerry have not replaced great players who have retired. So its not really about Kerry not winning. They are not good enough.
Mayo and Dublin were no where in 2005. Both started off with a youth policy. The GAA and Bertie enabled Dublin to be totally professional in all but name. I think its very hard on Mayo to have to compete with that.
Long term.... thats the big issue. Will the All Ireland football scene be like the Leinster championship. Will county players all over the place say..."this is a mugs game" and abandon the county scene in droves. Thats what i mean by existential problems.
As for Kerry.... Kerry will get better and will compete with Dublin again. But isnt the GAA bigger that Kerry and Dublin. There wasnt much joy for me in watching Kerry minors dismember a Derry side drawn from a small number of rural clubs.
Even though hurling has only 8 strong counties, the hurling scene is in a much better state.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 26, 2017 22:29:39 GMT
I dont know enough about the Kerry set up to answer your question. I dont know how professional the set up it as regards Strength and conditioning, nutrition and everything else. There seems to be a small army involved in Dublins set up compared to Kerrys but I dont know what difference that makes. Certainly having to commute long distances is a problem for some counties especially Mayo. Not to many KK hurlers had long commutes. I have said consistently on here that Kerry are behind Mayo since 2015 because Kerry have not replaced great players who have retired. So its not really about Kerry not winning. They are not good enough. Mayo and Dublin were no where in 2005. Both started off with a youth policy. The GAA and Bertie enabled Dublin to be totally professional in all but name. I think its very hard on Mayo to have to compete with that. Long term.... thats the big issue. Will the All Ireland football scene be like the Leinster championship. Will county players all over the place say..."this is a mugs game" and abandon the county scene in droves. Thats what i mean by existential problems. As for Kerry.... Kerry will get better and will compete with Dublin again. But isnt the GAA bigger that Kerry and Dublin. There wasnt much joy for me in watching Kerry minors dismember a Derry side drawn from a small number of rural clubs. Even though hurling has only 8 strong counties, the hurling scene is in a much better state. To answer your question long time , i honestly dont know. If not beyond the realms that Dublin become a monster that keeps winning and genuine debate has to be had about it. Also its quite possible when a few Dublin lads retire and Jim Gavin goes that we lose that slight edge and its enough for Kerry,Mayo or a remodeled Tyrone to beat them and the world will be good again. Jim Gavin threw in Mannion, Ciaran Kilkenny, Jack , Costello when they were very young into big games , he took a chance on Fenton, , Con o Callaghan started this year at the expense of senior players. Would Eamon have done the same . I couldn't help feel if he was managing Dublin that Bastic and Mdmc would have started against Mayo. Con would have been kept on the sideline and Brogan would have started. Sometimes you reap what you sow, that's what is happening for Gavin.
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Post by donegalman on Sept 26, 2017 22:31:05 GMT
Mark my words, in a few short years, Croke park is going to be renamed something like AIG Croke Park. We are in a new era of amateur sport in this country. Long live the algorithm!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 27, 2017 2:35:57 GMT
This Dublin's biggest winning margin in an AI is three points.
They are not miles ahead of everyone else.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 27, 2017 6:19:57 GMT
I dont know enough about the Kerry set up to answer your question.
I dont know how professional the set up it as regards Strength and conditioning, nutrition and everything else. There seems to be a small army involved in Dublins set up compared to Kerrys but I dont know what difference that makes. Certainly having to commute long distances is a problem for some counties especially Mayo. Not to many KK hurlers had long commutes. I have said consistently on here that Kerry are behind Mayo since 2015 because Kerry have not replaced great players who have retired. So its not really about Kerry not winning. They are not good enough. Mayo and Dublin were no where in 2005. Both started off with a youth policy. The GAA and Bertie enabled Dublin to be totally professional in all but name. I think its very hard on Mayo to have to compete with that. Long term.... thats the big issue. Will the All Ireland football scene be like the Leinster championship. Will county players all over the place say..."this is a mugs game" and abandon the county scene in droves. Thats what i mean by existential problems. As for Kerry.... Kerry will get better and will compete with Dublin again. But isnt the GAA bigger that Kerry and Dublin. There wasnt much joy for me in watching Kerry minors dismember a Derry side drawn from a small number of rural clubs. Even though hurling has only 8 strong counties, the hurling scene is in a much better state. Interesting that you know nothing about Kerry, but everything about Dublin.
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Post by glengael on Sept 27, 2017 9:18:02 GMT
Perhaps it might be time to retire this thread, as it's going round and round and the same points appear in other threads.
The Thread testimonial venue will be revealed shortly.....
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Post by buck02 on Sept 27, 2017 9:43:04 GMT
So if Kerry beat Dublin, all the existential problems facing the GAA will be gone! Is that how you see it? Listening to Jackie Tyrell on the radio this evening . He said when he was playing for ,Kilkenny they were professional in all but name. They wanted for nothing The county board made sure they had everything. All they had to worry about was preparing for games. Leaving aside the agreed disparity between Dublin and small counties. The advantage Dublin have over a lot of teams getting to play games in crokepark. Do you think Kerry lads are at a disadvantage when it comes to preparing for an All Ireland semifinal compared to Dublin. As regards training, nutrition and rest. I was talking to a current Kerry player a while back and he was describing his work to me, which involves a few days a week driving around the highways and byways of Kerry. He might have to drive 120-180km twice a week. This type of work makes nutrition more difficult although this has been rectified in recent years. In terms of rest, he would try avoid driving on days he had training for obvious reasons, but then it made recovery more difficult. Driving the winding, bumpy roads in Kerry certainly wouldnt help a fella he was sore the day after training. So I do think the Dublin players have a huge advantage when it comes to training and rest. There is no excuse for falling behind in terms of nutrition these days.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 27, 2017 10:49:42 GMT
Is it the preserve of all Dublin teams now in Croker to march behind the band on the crowd side? Dublin did all summer and the Dublin ladies did also last Sunday. Looks like an established protocol now. It also seems to allow the team on that side to be the aggressor in the pre-match handshake. All relevant in a game of inches. Are you serious? If you are saying teams lose to Dublin because of whWhy they stand in the parade and pre match handshake then that's a sad indictment of the mental fragility of our inter county footballers both male and female. Forget the Dubs are just downright better than most teams. Why would it matter what side of the parade you are on? Ive spoken to one or two lads that have played in Croker. The parade on a big day is just a wall of noise is their opinion and the parade is just a formality to get over with, like meeting the President. They said the only time support and noise is important is when your struggling and they can provide a lift. I'm referring to the collective accumulation of all the home comforts enjoyed by the Dubs at Croke Park in a game of inches. Dublin and Croke Park need to cut the umbilical cord linking the two. The Dubs need their own stadium. This could also be self financing and revenue generating for the Dubs freeing up funds to distribute around the country. Would you bet heavily on the Dubs beating Mayo in next years All-Ireland by a pointed free six minutes into injury time if the game was played in Castlebar? I wouldn't.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 27, 2017 10:52:59 GMT
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Post by veteran on Sept 27, 2017 15:47:45 GMT
And Darran gets a one match ban for becoming angry after getting a phantom black card. Must respect officials but not the players.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 27, 2017 17:25:11 GMT
I dont know enough about the Kerry set up to answer your question.
I dont know how professional the set up it as regards Strength and conditioning, nutrition and everything else. There seems to be a small army involved in Dublins set up compared to Kerrys but I dont know what difference that makes. Certainly having to commute long distances is a problem for some counties especially Mayo. Not to many KK hurlers had long commutes. I have said consistently on here that Kerry are behind Mayo since 2015 because Kerry have not replaced great players who have retired. So its not really about Kerry not winning. They are not good enough. Mayo and Dublin were no where in 2005. Both started off with a youth policy. The GAA and Bertie enabled Dublin to be totally professional in all but name. I think its very hard on Mayo to have to compete with that. Long term.... thats the big issue. Will the All Ireland football scene be like the Leinster championship. Will county players all over the place say..."this is a mugs game" and abandon the county scene in droves. Thats what i mean by existential problems. As for Kerry.... Kerry will get better and will compete with Dublin again. But isnt the GAA bigger that Kerry and Dublin. There wasnt much joy for me in watching Kerry minors dismember a Derry side drawn from a small number of rural clubs. Even though hurling has only 8 strong counties, the hurling scene is in a much better state. Interesting that you know nothing about Kerry, but everything about Dublin. The bit below is from todays examiner by Kieran Kingston. He seems to think money matters and can provide the vital percentages. He might know more than any of us perhaps. Its hard to believe that 28m (18m from GAA and 10m from Sports council) Dublin and something like 300k to Mayo since 2007 didnt give a few extra percentages in what turned out to be one point wins. Anyway, I will take the hint from Glengeal and leave it at that. ###################################### Kingston believes Cork hurling has a bright future ahead but that it needs to be fully resourced to succeed. “I think Cork have the players and the capability to succeed at all levels in the next few years but the approach has to be planned, structured and resourced properly. We have some excellent young players in Cork at all levels. “County boards can only do so much - if you look at any top county, in hurling or football, most of them have funding mechanisms running alongside the county boards which help with resources and facilities. “I’m not talking about paid managers but the resources which give counties those vital extra percentage points which can make all the difference, such as the Cork footballers’ fund I read about recently in the Examiner.R
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 27, 2017 18:56:15 GMT
And Darran gets a one match ban for becoming angry after getting a phantom black card. Must respect officials but not the players. Id agree 100% , if I was Darren I'd be fuming . It was a very bad decision on the day and to compound it he gets a ban.
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Post by ddtinexile on Sept 27, 2017 21:47:05 GMT
I'm fuming because the powers that be, the gaa hq have bottled it once more. In any other sport ,Keegan O'Gara ,Costello, Killkenny and perhaps the other two" puller downers" would be disciplined. Anything goes from now on, free for all. a good chance you'll get away with it especially if you're a Dub.
Costello's carry on for time he was on was appalling. He looked demented. Wonder what he was on.
Close the mayo v Dublin tread now.....sick of it.
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Aodhan
Senior Member
Posts: 788
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Post by Aodhan on Sept 27, 2017 22:35:08 GMT
If O'Gara got more time on the field he would possibly go down as the dirtiest player to ever play the game. Philly and Cooper are altar boys compared to him.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 28, 2017 11:14:29 GMT
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 28, 2017 12:12:47 GMT
Quite possible. Maybe when the bulk of these Dublin players have retired we can have this debate.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Sept 29, 2017 13:31:08 GMT
This Dublin's biggest winning margin in an AI is three points. They are not miles ahead of everyone else. This is true, it is a testament to their class that they came and come through tight games successfully when it matters. It is also testament to reality that they have won 4 of 5 All Ireland's by one point. Mayo are almost equal, losing 3 of those matches. Kerry are a little further back. The gulf in class argument only holds up against the lesser teams, which is most teams. The business end is tight, Dublin just that bit better. Kerry's years whilst finishing badly had a lot of positives and hopefully the lesson to speed up integration of youth and pace has been absorbed in the toughest way from Mayo games. That and to learn to defend. A significant work item. Kerry didn't lose to Dublin this year, and won a trophy showing how to take on Dublin, this must be valuable going into next year
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Post by sullyschoice on Sept 29, 2017 21:42:50 GMT
I'm fuming because the powers that be, the gaa hq have bottled it once more. In any other sport ,Keegan O'Gara ,Costello, Killkenny and perhaps the other two" puller downers" would be disciplined. Anything goes from now on, free for all. a good chance you'll get away with it especially if you're a Dub. Costello's carry on for time he was on was appalling. He looked demented. Wonder what he was on. Close the mayo v Dublin tread now.....sick of it. Are we having a collective amnesia about a certain Kerry Sub in 2014
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Post by clarinman on Sept 29, 2017 23:10:42 GMT
I'm fuming because the powers that be, the gaa hq have bottled it once more. In any other sport ,Keegan O'Gara ,Costello, Killkenny and perhaps the other two" puller downers" would be disciplined. Anything goes from now on, free for all. a good chance you'll get away with it especially if you're a Dub. Costello's carry on for time he was on was appalling. He looked demented. Wonder what he was on. Close the mayo v Dublin tread now.....sick of it. Are we having a collective amnesia about a certain Kerry Sub in 2014 Well said Sully. Every team does it. Conversation should be how we change the rules to stop it.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 29, 2017 23:44:45 GMT
BJK at the end of 2014 and Keegan at the end of 2017 looked to me like the acts of lads acting alone....not preplanned by management
It did look to me that dublin had a plan in place for a scenario where you were a point up with a minute to go and the opposition had to restart.
About three mayo lads were hauled down....a black card would eat up time.
Its just another example of the planning and organising by dublin.
Mayo made a rake of substitutions late on when defending a lead. Each player going off could have committed a black card offense and a sub would have been brought on anyway..it would have disrupted dublin and slowed things down. Mayo are too naive or just silly like vaughan was.
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Post by Dermot on Oct 9, 2017 13:59:32 GMT
Congrats to Dublin but Poor, poor aul Mayo .. good grief, how do they cope A combination of Donal Vaughan losing the plot & getting sent off and Roachfords ludicrous decisions to take off A Moran, S O'Shay, C Boyle, K Higgins, K McLoughlin & J Doherty (6 of his most experienced players) with 5-10 mins to go is what cost Mayo yet again .. well that and their lamentable inability to "believe" they can win it .... There's no way Roachford should have taken those guys off .. no way Roachford? As my learn'd friend Tom Crean pointed out, Andy Moran was gassed. He made a poor decision to shoot rather than pass to Coen before he came off. It was the actions of a tired player. Boyle was gassed as well. Personally, I'm convinced the Vaughan incident lost it for them. Sorry, havent been on for a while so just seeing this now.... No doubt the Vaughan incident was a major factor ... However, I just think I'd have kept Moran & Boyle on, a bit gassed or not .... I dont recall who replaced them .. they didnt have an impact thats for sure... e.g. There's no feckin way M Harte would have taken P Canavan off with 5-10 mins to go, no matter how tired he was as he knew what he "could" possibly do ..... The same should have went for Moran.. Anyway, he took 6 of his best, most experienced players off for the most important stage of the game, and it helped Dublin get over the line ...
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