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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 24, 2017 21:15:45 GMT
www.balls.ie/gaa/paul-kimmage-on-jim-gavin-374263?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=Balls.ie&utm_content=Paul%20Kimmage%20Hugely%20Critical%20Of%20%22Classless%22%20Jim%20Gavin%20After%20All-Ireland%20FinalIn some quarters, the discontent is settling in before winter. The men's football championship is over for another year, with today's newspapers using the occasion to look back upon last week's victory for Dublin. The unique condition of Mayo attracts its usual level of attention, with Paul Galvin of The Sunday Times notably critical of Mayo's gameplan in the final minutes. A couple of other writers meditate on the strength of Dublin and what it means for the future, with very few journalists or columnists critical of Dublin in any way. The exception is Sunday Independent journalist Paul Kimmage. He is critical of Jim Gavin's demeanor in the post-match press conference, citing what he believes is a "lack of empathy". Kimmage appeared on Off The Ball's Paper Review earlier today, and elaborated on his issue with the Dublin manager. Here's what I do have a problem with. Jim hasn't reached his chair and someone says, 'How's the heart Jim?' It was a great chance for Jim to say, 'Jaysus I need a transplant, what a game!' but instead, it looked as if a wasp had stung him: 'Fine, how's yours?' Now, where did that come from? You have hostility straight away, from the moment he sits down. It's not that he isn't engaging, he is being hostile about this. He's won a three-in-a-row, and he hasn't even sat in his chair and he's being hostile. But ok, we'll let that pass; we'll let that pass. So then he's asked quite early on about Mayo's failure to get over the line and the long history and all of that. And he says, 'we know what it's like, we were here a few months ago when we lost the National League final'. So he's comparing a defeat in a National League final to - how many defeats for Mayo since 1951? So now, I do have a problem. I have a problem with the lack of empathy, I have a problem with the lack of grace. I just thought, 'you must be joking'. 'C'mon Jim, this isn't you, and this isn't real, c'mon, get with it'. The third thing was when Declan Bogue [GAA journalist] asked him about the disgraceful - disgraceful - final minutes of the game, which was an absolute blemish on the best sport I have watched this year. Three Dublin players had wrestled Mayo players to the ground in that last minute. He's asked about this, and again he didn't engage with the question, he tried to pass it off. [Gavin's exact quote was "I think it was like that from the start. It was a very physical game, a lot on the line. Both teams going hard at it. I wouldn't expect anything else from either team"]. What is this all about? You come in here, you look like you've lost - if you turn off the sound and just watch the expressions you'd say these guys have lost - so what is the point in winning? What is the point if there's no joy, or if you can't express that joy? Does coming in here and actually being a bit gracious toward the losers, and expressing a bit of joy, mean you can't win again next year? Well if that's the price, then give me losers. If that's what we're going to get from Jim Gavin and his team for the next four years, then I'm not interested. Kimmage went on to ponder Gavin's issue with the media. The Star's Kieran Cunningham was on air also, and he made the interesting observation that Gavin and his management team (Jason Sherlock and Declan Darcy) are part of the 1990s Dublin generation who may feel that hype in the media may have cost them victories and All-Ireland titles. Host Joe Molloy then attempted to crowbar in a few tweets and texts from listeners, with Kimmage unwilling to listen to them: I'm not interested in texts. I know what they are going to say. what I want your listeners to do is: Do they hold them to account for his behaviour in the press conference? His lack of graciousness toward the losers. Do they hold him to account? Let me tell you one thing, if Jim Gavin was sitting here right now, and I lited those criticisms he would have no defence. He would accept that this was not the way for a Dublin manager to behave. He crossed a line, and it did not reflect well on him or his team. Joe Molloy then asked Kimmage if Gavin had a right to show disdain for the media. Look, don't come in. Don't come in. If you have [disdain for the media] then don't come in and do it. Don't sit there and treat us like idiots. Don't sit there and be disdainful of the Mayo players and the Mayo people the way he did. The lack of empathy. Molloy rejected the use of "disdain" and said that this comes from a position of cold-hearted ruthlessness. Kimmage's response: I'm not interested in ruthlessness. If this is what the game has come to now, I'm not interested. Kimmage went on to describe Gavin's behaviour as "classless", saying he would be "disappointed" if Gavin doesn't change. At least Jim Gavin responded to Declan Bogue, unlike Jim McGunniess who in his moment of triumph in 2012 insisted Bogue remove himself from the room or he wouldn't participate in the post-final press conference. If fellow journalists were that interested in the integrity of their profession, they should have walked out of the room there and then in solidarity. Sports journalism operates increasingly in a cesspool of self-interest building up individuals and teams and predictably tearing them down and if there’s no story, just make one up. Jim Gavin is not playing the game on their terms and Kimmage is throwing his toys out of the pram. There is no story here only Kimmage's own sense of entitlement and self importance laid bare.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 24, 2017 21:25:58 GMT
First Dunphy , now Kimmage and a host of other journalists arent happy with Dublin. Maybe in Dunphys case he feels soccer in Dublin is being threatened, I think Dublin should just give back Sam. A lot of people up and down the country would feel better about themselves. Who do Cluxton, Mick Fitz, Philly, James mc Carthy ,Cian, to name a few think they are. Training their asses off with huge commitment for the last 8 years ,keeping the head down in a Capital city where its easy to get your head turned, where a few previous Dublin players had adorned the limelight to their counties cost. Jim Gavin has managed to keep a successful group of players still hungry , not an easy job. They have just won 3 in a row. We seen what happened to the Tipp hurlers after they won an All Ireland last year and were tipped for greatness. These Dublin lads give everything to GAA and such is the demand for them in Dublin , they are always helping charities and turning up for fundraisers. But Kimmage who knows nothing about GAA, now takes issue with Jim Gavin's demeanour. He should have been in Croker today, he would of seen the Dublin players showing great passion cheering on the ladies.
You would expect a bit of passion from Dean Rock, Paul Flynn and Con... their girls friend are playing. As was McCaffreys sister. And sure what else would Philly and McCarthy be doing on a grand day like today but hop on the 11 bus. Noelle Healy is some footballer... both parents are from Mayo.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 24, 2017 21:55:17 GMT
Jim Gavin a ruthless operator. After the league final he stressed the importance of getting "experienced" refs to ref the big games for the summer. We couldnt have a repeat of the league finsl. So he got Coldrick and Dublin Joe from the semi final and final. Coldrick had it so handy he even gave Tyrone a penalty at one stage as if to say "look at me lads...i can do this".
Joe rode Mayo in the first half in typical fashion. Mayo would have gone in four or five up otherwise.
Joe played in fairly straight in the second half.
Gavin got his experienced refs...he is a cunning.
No such carryon in the hurling....a rookie gets his shot at it and did a fine job.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 24, 2017 21:59:58 GMT
In fairness Cluxton smiled more today for the 15 seconds he was caught unawares on camera than for last 10 years when in the Dublin jersey. The Dublin players and Gavin are about as exciting as drying paint in the blue jersey.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 24, 2017 22:35:46 GMT
In fairness Cluxton smiled more today for the 15 seconds he was caught unawares on camera than for last 10 years when in the Dublin jersey. The Dublin players and Gavin are about as exciting as drying paint in the blue jersey. Do you know any of them.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 25, 2017 7:33:42 GMT
Why would I need to know them to have an opinion of them in the blue jersey when in a public space attended by spectators?
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 25, 2017 9:08:47 GMT
In fairness Cluxton smiled more today for the 15 seconds he was caught unawares on camera than for last 10 years when in the Dublin jersey. The Dublin players and Gavin are about as exciting as drying paint in the blue jersey. Do you know any of them. www.balls.ie/gaa/eamon-dunphy-5-374180
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 25, 2017 13:00:04 GMT
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Post by delorean on Sept 25, 2017 14:15:30 GMT
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Post by Dermot on Sept 25, 2017 14:30:14 GMT
Congrats to Dublin but Poor, poor aul Mayo .. good grief, how do they cope A combination of Donal Vaughan losing the plot & getting sent off and Roachfords ludicrous decisions to take off A Moran, S O'Shay, C Boyle, K Higgins, K McLoughlin & J Doherty (6 of his most experienced players) with 5-10 mins to go is what cost Mayo yet again .. well that and their lamentable inability to "believe" they can win it .... There's no way Roachford should have taken those guys off .. no way
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Post by homerj on Sept 25, 2017 17:15:46 GMT
Mayo though, seem to find new ways of losing every year. the werent good enough most years, last year scored 2 ogs in a game they dominated clearly. got their best player off in a replay where they dropped their all star keeper who was replaced by a lad who cost them the game.
this year, they play their best ever and get a man needlessly sent off along with taking off 2 or 3 of their best players.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 25, 2017 18:31:54 GMT
Congrats to Dublin but Poor, poor aul Mayo .. good grief, how do they cope A combination of Donal Vaughan losing the plot & getting sent off and Roachfords ludicrous decisions to take off A Moran, S O'Shay, C Boyle, K Higgins, K McLoughlin & J Doherty (6 of his most experienced players) with 5-10 mins to go is what cost Mayo yet again .. well that and their lamentable inability to "believe" they can win it .... There's no way Roachford should have taken those guys off .. no way Roachford? As my learn'd friend Tom Crean pointed out, Andy Moran was gassed. He made a poor decision to shoot rather than pass to Coen before he came off. It was the actions of a tired player. Boyle was gassed as well. Personally, I'm convinced the Vaughan incident lost it for them.
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 25, 2017 20:13:06 GMT
Jim Gavin a ruthless operator. After the league final he stressed the importance of getting "experienced" refs to ref the big games for the summer. We couldnt have a repeat of the league finsl. So he got Coldrick and Dublin Joe from the semi final and final. Coldrick had it so handy he even gave Tyrone a penalty at one stage as if to say "look at me lads...i can do this". Joe rode Mayo in the first half in typical fashion. Mayo would have gone in four or five up otherwise. Joe played in fairly straight in the second half. Gavin got his experienced refs...he is a cunning. No such carryon in the hurling....a rookie gets his shot at it and did a fine job. Stupid and begrudging comment. Says everything about you.
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 25, 2017 20:26:56 GMT
In fairness Cluxton smiled more today for the 15 seconds he was caught unawares on camera than for last 10 years when in the Dublin jersey. The Dublin players and Gavin are about as exciting as drying paint in the blue jersey. Very stupid comment. There is no responsibility on any of them to entertain you except in the sporting sense. And what they displayed was an abundance of courage, grace under pressure, character. Fantastic traits in young men. But all they have listened to since last week is a stream of ignorant and baseless comment from journos who should know better. All chipping away at their magnificent achievements, because well, they are sick to the teeth watching this team winning.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 25, 2017 20:34:50 GMT
Why would I need to know them to have an opinion of them in the blue jersey when in a public space attended by spectators? Fair enough, I don't personally know any of the Kerry lads so I wouldn't make a judgement on their personalities. I think it would be ignorant of me to do so.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 25, 2017 21:04:18 GMT
Why would I need to know them to have an opinion of them in the blue jersey when in a public space attended by spectators? Fair enough, I don't personally know any of the Kerry lads so I wouldn't make a judgement on their personalities. I think it would be ignorant of me to do so. Fair enough, each to their own.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 25, 2017 21:35:02 GMT
Chill out there Skybluezone. Do you want me to post up Gavins tirade about the ref after the league final and how he wanted the usual suspects back for the summer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 22:13:09 GMT
Jim Gavin a ruthless operator. After the league final he stressed the importance of getting "experienced" refs to ref the big games for the summer. We couldnt have a repeat of the league finsl. So he got Coldrick and Dublin Joe from the semi final and final. Coldrick had it so handy he even gave Tyrone a penalty at one stage as if to say "look at me lads...i can do this". Joe rode Mayo in the first half in typical fashion. Mayo would have gone in four or five up otherwise. Joe played in fairly straight in the second half. Gavin got his experienced refs...he is a cunning. No such carryon in the hurling....a rookie gets his shot at it and did a fine job. Stupid and begrudging comment. Says everything about you. If your contribution is to call posters comments stupid, you have to wonder why you even bother posting here,
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Sept 26, 2017 6:51:03 GMT
We have become the sore losers that other counties were for years. It's about time that we congratulate Dublin without nit picking. Every team has flaws and if they didn't it wouldn't be worthwhile trying to expose them in order to win but when the game is over we need to get on with it. If they are not bubbly characters then let the personality police deal with them. Big deal if some of them fail to be exciting off the field, they certainly make up for it on the field. We have had many extremely quiet lads throughout the years and we have also had many rogues. Maybe some Dublin players think their sh*t doesn't stink but hey we have had plenty of those arrogant fellows also. Dublin are 100% the best team in the country and are deserved champions.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 26, 2017 9:39:23 GMT
I for one do not expect or want to see Kerry supporters on their own forum tugging the forelock to anyone. The same as when the tables were turned. Or in their original place. I may want to disagree about opinions and details, but that's a different matter.
One of the main reasons I ever started posting here was to share and experience the real, honest opinions and passion of proper Kingdom GAA folk. Heaven knows it was hard enough to get that out of those I met after the latest beating we had taken not so long ago, or before.
One of the strongest things that has led to Kerry having had so much success is the refusal to accept second best to anyone, at any time. That pride is one of the main foundations at least. There is nothing wrong with being pissed off with not winning All-Is, or with others winning, that's ambition.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 11:29:40 GMT
Dublin are definitely the best team in Ireland with the best players. Stephen Cluxton is an outstanding Keeper and has been throughout his career. James McCarthy and Jack McCaffrey have been outstanding Backs. They lost Rory O'Carroll who is a great full back and didn't miss a beat. Brian Fenton is the best Midfielder in Ireland. Diarmuid Connolly Ciaran Kilkenny are outstanding all round players. Con O'Callaghan is the best u21 player in Ireland.
They have the best players and deserve their 3 in a Row. I would not be surprised if they get the 5.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 26, 2017 12:01:50 GMT
The funny thing is that if you were to pick a best team from Mayo and Dublin based on their performances in the final, it would be a pretty even number from both. Several dublin players were below form such as andrews, ogara, philly and one or two more.
It is when the subs enter the mix that Mayo struggle and dublin have the edge. So dublin have the best panel by some distance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 14:39:06 GMT
For sure they have. The scary thing is they have 4 or 5 very good u21 prospects which they will probably try out in the League. Evan Comerford Cillian O'Shea Brian Howard and Colm Basquel look like real prospects. Possibly Eoin Murchan and Aaron Byrne also. So they have plenty youth coming up.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 26, 2017 15:46:23 GMT
Some of the bashing of Jim Gavin has been childish in the media to be honest. So what if he doesn't give riveting interviews or either do the players. It's not part of his job. They had fine 'colourful' managers in Tommy Lyons and Tommy Carr and won sweet f##k all with them. Dublin need a manager that can manage the hype and deflate the baloon a little bit. Gilroy did similar.
As for his comments about the ref after the league final i have no problem about it. I dont think he was issuing a plea for Joe McQuillan but, stating an opinion. So if he gives a bland interview he is a 'joyless' man. Gives a straight interview is is a 'conniving' man. Give him a break. Dublin are the best team in the country. No point cribbing about incidentals. Kerry at the minute wouldn't get within an asses roar of that Dublin team.
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dano
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Post by dano on Sept 26, 2017 17:33:30 GMT
Great post AWB and Rashers too. We are not that far behind the Dubs. Splitting up Dublin, complaining about their numbers, (money and players), their personalities, their proximity to Croker, their history with refs or their new cars wont bring Sam back to Kerry. People were kinda laughing at Micko talking about bringing the likes of David Clifford into training and how he would train him. He has a point. Give the youth a chance. It worked before. It'll work again.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 26, 2017 18:26:51 GMT
Great post AWB and Rashers too. We are not that far behind the Dubs. Splitting up Dublin, complaining about their numbers, (money and players), their personalities, their proximity to Croker, their history with refs or their new cars wont bring Sam back to Kerry. People were kinda laughing at Micko talking about bringing the likes of David Clifford into training and how he would train him. He has a point. Give the youth a chance. It worked before. It'll work again. To me it's a no-brainer. Get the cream of the 2014-2017 minors in with the seniors in training. Fitzmaurice cut a few guys like Pa Kilkenny off the panel a couple of years ago to make space for Jason Foley etc. Surely in this NFL we will see more of them. I know the U-20 Comp is there but a balance will need to be struck.
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 26, 2017 18:41:38 GMT
Stupid and begrudging comment. Says everything about you. If your contribution is to call posters comments stupid, you have to wonder why you even bother posting here, If that's the case then you might want to check some of your own recent contributions. I'll leave it there.
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 26, 2017 18:55:37 GMT
Chill out there Skybluezone. Do you want me to post up Gavins tirade about the ref after the league final and how he wanted the usual suspects back for the summer. Is that a threat??? Seriously Mick its not kindergarten. You constantly damn Dublin with faint praise. Tiresome stuff. They are great but the resources, Dubs park, Dublin Joe and Dublin Gough and Dublin Coldrick always seem to swing it Dublins way in your eyes. There are none so blind etc etc...If the queen had balls she'd be the king. Did it ever cross your mind that Cluxton, maybe Dublins most important player ever, was a fully fledged inter county player in 2001? A long time before AIG O2 Vodafone or even the Irish Sports Council were funding the Big Blue Bear. What im trying to say is that maybe talent combined with commitment might have something to do with the current status quo.
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 26, 2017 19:00:08 GMT
Some of the bashing of Jim Gavin has been childish in the media to be honest. So what if he doesn't give riveting interviews or either do the players. It's not part of his job. They had fine 'colourful' managers in Tommy Lyons and Tommy Carr and won sweet f##k all with them. Dublin need a manager that can manage the hype and deflate the baloon a little bit. Gilroy did similar. As for his comments about the ref after the league final i have no problem about it. I dont think he was issuing a plea for Joe McQuillan but, stating an opinion. So if he gives a bland interview he is a 'joyless' man. Gives a straight interview is is a 'conniving' man. Give him a break. Dublin are the best team in the country. No point cribbing about incidentals. Kerry at the minute wouldn't get within an asses roar of that Dublin team. Totally agree on your first para. Tommy Lyons and Jim Gavin, was there ever a greater contrast. One so not suited and the other a perfect fit for the Dublin job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 19:13:26 GMT
If your contribution is to call posters comments stupid, you have to wonder why you even bother posting here, If that's the case then you might want to check some of your own recent contributions. I'll leave it there. Unfortunately you haven't. What kind of sad b*stard goes around other counties Internet forums starting arguments.
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