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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 20, 2017 15:49:57 GMT
As mentioned in the minor thread there is a fair few lads on the panel that could be cut loose. Mark Griffin falls into tat caegory. Either give him a chance to stake his claim in the half backline or midfield area or drop him form the panel. He is not an inter county inside back ad here is no point persisting with him there. He has the makings of a top class centre back or even a midfielder but there is no point revertig to him as a full ack.
The experiment has been tried ad failed repeatedly. Give some lad that has actually be a full back at minor and 21 level and see how he goes. Or bring in someone from the club scene ad see how he goes i a trial etc. The majority of the players form the 2014 wining minor team will be 21/22 by the time next years league starts. Give them their shot at it. If they aet good enough then thats fie but, at the moment we dont have any idea as we haven't seen them at all. The few that got league time last year all impressed. As I have said before I would gladly forsake our place i division 1 for a year if we developed a squad with depth and depth in quality. We cant be playig more or less the same 20 players again come next championship ad expect different results. Probably our best plaer after Geaney in the championship is Donaghy who is 34/35.
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Aodhan
Senior Member
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Post by Aodhan on Sept 20, 2017 15:51:00 GMT
By all accounts the young fellows were blown apart physically in training, including Jason Foley. That is the sole reason they were not introduced with the exception of Tom O' Sullivan and we all saw what happened to him. The transition takes longer than we envision bar for the odd few in this day and age.
2018 will make a lot of difference to these lads and fingers crossed they will be ready. Look at Costello from Dublin, what a change in physique from last year, he even looks like he needs to bulk down.
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Post by lár na páirce on Sept 20, 2017 16:38:04 GMT
By all accounts the young fellows were blown apart physically in training, including Jason Foley. That is the sole reason they were not introduced with the exception of Tom O' Sullivan and we all saw what happened to him. The transition takes longer than we envision bar for the odd few in this day and age. 2018 will make a lot of difference to these lads and fingers crossed they will be ready. Look at Costello from Dublin, what a change in physique from last year, he even looks like he needs to bulk down. Can't really agree with that to be honest,In the past few weeks we have seen Sean O Sé kick four points off a county senior in Fionn,Brian O Beaglaoich horsed Bryan Sheehan out of it in the Intermediate semi.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 20, 2017 17:02:16 GMT
By all accounts the young fellows were blown apart physically in training, including Jason Foley. That is the sole reason they were not introduced with the exception of Tom O' Sullivan and we all saw what happened to him. The transition takes longer than we envision bar for the odd few in this day and age. 2018 will make a lot of difference to these lads and fingers crossed they will be ready. Look at Costello from Dublin, what a change in physique from last year, he even looks like he needs to bulk down. Can't really agree with that to be honest,In the past few weeks we have seen Sean O Sé kick four points off a county senior in Fionn,Brian O Beaglaoich horsed Bryan Sheehan out of it in the Intermediate semi. Perhaps that simply means they are getting there after the preparation that has gone into them - BOB was plagued with injury earlier in the season and that impacted his availability. I am as impatient as the next man to see some of the new blood given a chance but from talking with people who operate at the coal face it takes time to get new players to the required level. Fitz and the Kerry backroom people have a considerable number of potential players on programs in an attempt to get them to a stage where they can be tried. The game has become a very different place in the last ten years and remembering former stars who stepped straight into the senior ranks overlooks the way the game has developed.
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Aodhan
Senior Member
Posts: 792
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Post by Aodhan on Sept 20, 2017 17:10:57 GMT
By all accounts the young fellows were blown apart physically in training, including Jason Foley. That is the sole reason they were not introduced with the exception of Tom O' Sullivan and we all saw what happened to him. The transition takes longer than we envision bar for the odd few in this day and age. 2018 will make a lot of difference to these lads and fingers crossed they will be ready. Look at Costello from Dublin, what a change in physique from last year, he even looks like he needs to bulk down. Can't really agree with that to be honest,In the past few weeks we have seen Sean O Sé kick four points off a county senior in Fionn,Brian O Beaglaoich horsed Bryan Sheehan out of it in the Intermediate semi. Could you pick a better example than Fionn and as mentioned BOB has been injured over the past two years, would almost certainly be a starter only for that? Maybe the selector I heard it from has bad judgement. .
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 20, 2017 17:28:24 GMT
Looks like we are behind in physicality and our emerging talent hadn't made the mark by '17. We had the measure of Mayo the first day and they would have beaten the all-time best Dublin team for Sam if they had our sharpness. I hate saying it but Éamonn is of a cautious disposition - he did shine in '14 but made too many very bad calls since and all at critical times, very critical times.
Mayo will be a year older in '18 and they will last until they go over the edge, we have a pipeline that they don't and Dublin are beatable - we just need to control the controllables, don't expect it to happen, make it happen.
What's another year, or how many years do we want it to be? Have we better options on the sideline?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 18:01:55 GMT
Mayo are a bit ahead of us and with the crew we have on the sideline it won't change much. Mayo still have some u21s from 2016 coming through. It will take at least 2 if not 3 years again to challenge I think. Dublin will win it again next year.
What we can do is give some young fellas games in the League and hope they progress. Maybe by 2019 we will be have some kind of decent squad together.
Shane Ryan is ready for Goals. Jason Foley and Gavin White are 2 Backs I would try in the League. Rob O'Se in Midfield. Sean O'Shea David Clifford are 2 Forwards. Start there. There is a few in that Kerry panel that should be done playing with the County. Not up to that Level.
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Post by taggert on Sept 20, 2017 18:29:23 GMT
I think there is a reason M Griffin is not playing centre back or midfield for Kerry and thats because he is nowhere near good enuf. How long has he been inside in training for God sake? Yes he can run fast but he is not a good kick passer, is almost always turned over or loses posessession following one of his bursts and is not a particularly good fielder. He is not a first cousin of James McCarthy and never will be. The level now is Dublin and Mayo and the likes of Enright, Fionn, Buckley and Griffin have and will continue to come up short against these teams. Its not their fault, they are not up to that level and no point pretending otherwise or blaming them for their inferiority. We also have others whose best days are well behind them so we need to rebuild now to be a force again in 3 years time....Discarding those not up to it is the first step...
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falveyb2k
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"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
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Post by falveyb2k on Sept 20, 2017 20:33:26 GMT
Can anybody confirm if u20s are allowed to play senior? Can they play both?
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Post by veteran on Sept 20, 2017 20:57:40 GMT
Darragh can write good wrticles but he can come out with awful raimeis , not least that Dublin and Mayo are the the two best teams of past thirty years. Obviously , Dublin have a right to be placed in that category but Mayo, who,have failed to win one All-Ireland? He rationalises it by saying they are unfortunate to be in the same era as this current Dublin team.
The problem is you can make that claim about any team. I will leave Dermot speak up for Tyrone but consider Kerry in the noughties. They won in 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2009. Beaten by Tyrone in 2005 and 2008. Let use Darragh's logic. If Tyrone were not around then it would be reasonable to assume that Kerry would have won 2005 and 2008 as well, that is six in a row. Where would that leave that Kerry team in the hit parade, the greatest of all no doubt. Certainly , they would edge Mayo out of the billing that Darragh gives them!
I have no doubt that those Kerry/Tyrone teams would take care of the current Mayo team because their backs and midfield were at least as good as Mayo's amd the forwards were vastly superior. For goodness sake, a feeble Kerry team had a late free to beat this Mayo team this year.
Darragh spoiled a good article by throwing in this careless assessment of Mayo.
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Post by southward on Sept 20, 2017 21:05:24 GMT
Darragh can write good wrticles but he can come out with awful raimeis , not least that Dublin and Mayo are the the two best teams of past thirty years. Obviously , Dublin have a right to be placed in that category but Mayo, who,have failed to win one All-Ireland? He rationalises it by saying they are unfortunate to be in the same era as this current Dublin team. The problem is you can make that claim about any team. I will leave Dermot speak up for Tyrone but consider Kerry in the noughties. They won in 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2009. Beaten by Tyrone in 2005 and 2008. Let use Darragh's logic. If Tyrone were not around then it would be reasonable to assume that Kerry would have won 2005 and 2008 as well, that is six in a row. Where would that leave that Kerry team in the hit parade, the greatest of all no doubt. Certainly , they would edge Mayo out of the billing that Darragh gives them! s Darragh spoiled a good article by throwing in this careless assessment of Mayo. Darragh must be trying to curry favour with someone in Mayo. I can't think of any other explanation for such a bizarre claim.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Sept 20, 2017 21:24:20 GMT
As much it is nice to think Gooch could help, give him a break, he needs to manage a club team first, I'd be more interested in Maurice, still think EF should go, Can you tell me why Gooch would need to coach a club team before being able to act as a SELECTOR for Kerry. I am really curious to hear your answer to that. I doubt very much that PG and JOD would have been taken off in 2015 v Dublin or PG v Dublin in 2016......or Donaght v Mayo in 2017.... if Colm was part of the selection team. The answer is simple, it's Experience, if Gooch is trying to over-rule EF on the sideline he needs to know what it's like to be the man in charge first,
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 20, 2017 21:51:46 GMT
I see Eamonn Fitzmaurice is meeting wiwith County Board next week..what are we expecting out of this? If he stays on I think he needs to cull his current panel.Subs who aren't pushing their way onto the team need to go.They are in a comfort zone of being in a kerry panel with no trapdoor.Youth must be given its fling as well.Sean O Shea is a must.I can think of at least 5 members of the Kerry panel who are currently below his level. A style/system of play must be developed which suits the players.Playing a sweeper only works in a back line where there is a defined shape and structure. Zest must be put into the half forward line and space must be left inside for the finishers.No point having corner backs running into the full forward line clogging up the space.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 21:52:24 GMT
Can you tell me why Gooch would need to coach a club team before being able to act as a SELECTOR for Kerry. I am really curious to hear your answer to that. I doubt very much that PG and JOD would have been taken off in 2015 v Dublin or PG v Dublin in 2016......or Donaght v Mayo in 2017.... if Colm was part of the selection team. The answer is simple, it's Experience, if Gooch is trying to over-rule EF on the sideline he needs to know what it's like to be the man in charge first, Well if "experience" can lead to unfathomable substitutions like those outlined above maybe its time to try out "inexperience" and see how that goes!
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Post by taggert on Sept 20, 2017 21:56:09 GMT
Darragh must be planning on having his "testimonial" evening in Mayo in the coming months.......MC on the night will be Enda Kenny.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 21, 2017 13:24:36 GMT
Can't really agree with that to be honest,In the past few weeks we have seen Sean O Sé kick four points off a county senior in Fionn,Brian O Beaglaoich horsed Bryan Sheehan out of it in the Intermediate semi. Could you pick a better example than Fionn and as mentioned BOB has been injured over the past two years, would almost certainly be a starter only for that? Maybe the selector I heard it from has bad judgement. . Very hard to reconcile that claim with what we saw in Croke Park. Mayo's speed and strength were away ahead of Kerry's. All teams have players of different speed but in almost all positions Kerry were inferior. There is something seriously wrong somewhere in the equation if that is the team that was produced by that training. And the fact remains that other counties in hurling and football are playing 19 and 20 year olds.
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tpo
Senior Member
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Post by tpo on Sept 21, 2017 14:00:14 GMT
What successful county football teams are using 19/20 year olds ? Hurling is a different game
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 21, 2017 14:04:31 GMT
What successful county football teams are using 19/20 year olds ? Hurling is a different game I always thought hurling was the more physical game.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 21, 2017 14:19:33 GMT
Well in fairness even if we throw i our you lads and give them a years or two experience and suffer a loss or two along the way how bad. The team in is current format won't be winning a all Ireland anyway lets be honest. The standard is so poor at inter county level currently that we would still beat most teams playing poorly a[art from Mayo, Dublin and maybe Tyrone.
Even if we wait until the lads are all 22/23 it will still take them maybe a year to get to the pitch of inter county in most cases. Give youth its head (within reason) and see what happens.
I agree with most people that our panel needs a serious cull.We can' be doing the same thing with the same players year i year out and expect different results.
We have no full backline. Lets call a spade a spade. Clare, Cork, Galway and mayo carved us open a times. Tactics etc play a part but, we dot have the players either that you would feel confident in a man to man situation. Killian is not a full back line player, Either is Griffin, Fionn isn't either. Enrights form was poor all year. But, we had no alternatives.
Our half back line is fine. Add Killian back into the mix and along with Murphy and Crowley it looks solid.
Midfield is a concern. I have said i time and again. I don't get the hype about Moran. He doesn't deliver on a consistent basis. In short you cant rely on him. Maybe its not his fault, we mightn't be playing the best way to get the best out of him. Maher is a solid player. Fitness is an issue because of the injuries. Realistically midfield is Jack Barry + An Other
Our half forward line has been a problem since Galvin retired and before then. We just don't seem to have the pace.And are too easy over ran. Ad if we do play the lads with pace like Darran ad SOB they are too small and get out muscled. Also were are no getting any scoring return from our half forwards really so the all the pressure is on the full forward line every day.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 21, 2017 14:21:29 GMT
I think Moran is a Rolls Royce of a player to be honest.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 21, 2017 14:24:56 GMT
I think Moran is a Rolls Royce of a player to be honest. Fully agree- the lad can have the odd off day but is top class overall
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 21, 2017 14:57:36 GMT
I would try david moran at fullback for the league.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 21, 2017 15:35:43 GMT
I would try david moran at fullback for the league. Ah jeez Mick- I cant agree with that at all. Would be some waste
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Post by ballybunion on Sept 21, 2017 15:50:15 GMT
Moran might be a "Rolls Royce" but he would need to stop showing "Lada" class in a number of important games.His form in the semi final was very disappointing.
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Post by veteran on Sept 21, 2017 16:02:40 GMT
I would try david moran at fullback for the league. Ah jeez Mick- I cant agree with that at all. Would be some waste Have you any recollection of Jacko being tried at full back! It didn't last long I can tell you. David would have been a supreme midfielder in a different era but Dublin, the trend setters, have emphasized the importance of pace in that region. The victors write the history as they say.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 21, 2017 16:11:27 GMT
I think Moran is a Rolls Royce of a player to be honest. He can be. That's the point. We dont see it on a consistent basis. In the first half of the first Mayo game in 2014 he was practically un-markable. Similar for the second half and extra time in the replay. Was very poor in the final afterwards. Was poor in the semi against Tyrone in 2015. And the same in the final. Poor last year against Dublin and both days against Mayo this year, while he was probably our best player in the league final. He can be fantastic but, at the moment thats rare. He has had more poor games for Kerry than good ones. There is a fantastic player there somewhere but, we either aren't playing to his strengths or don't know how to get the best out of him. Thats why his great displays are so sporadic. Maybe try something like a centre back role? He can still pick the passes etc. He would add a bit of presence to the role as well flanked by crowely and murphy. We ave to try something to get him more involved i he games in a good way. A lot of games seem to pass him by at the moment. I know people will say he is not a centre back etc but, its a role than can be adapted to. You are mostly facing the play. Brosnan made a decent fist of the transition a few years ago. Micko was a great man for thinking outside the box and moulding players to new positions. Was it easier back then or do we not have the nous in the camp to coach a player in new skills this way?
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Post by champer on Sept 21, 2017 16:15:18 GMT
I would try david moran at fullback for the league. Your cries to play Micheal Quirke there a few years ago fell on deaf ears. I wish you success in this crusade!
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Post by buck02 on Sept 21, 2017 16:35:56 GMT
Well in fairness even if we throw i our you lads and give them a years or two experience and suffer a loss or two along the way how bad. The team in is current format won't be winning a all Ireland anyway lets be honest. The standard is so poor at inter county level currently that we would still beat most teams playing poorly a[art from Mayo, Dublin and maybe Tyrone. Even if we wait until the lads are all 22/23 it will still take them maybe a year to get to the pitch of inter county in most cases. Give youth its head (within reason) and see what happens. I agree with most people that our panel needs a serious cull.We can' be doing the same thing with the same players year i year out and expect different results. We have no full backline. Lets call a spade a spade. Clare, Cork, Galway and mayo carved us open a times. Tactics etc play a part but, we dot have the players either that you would feel confident in a man to man situation. Killian is not a full back line player, Either is Griffin, Fionn isn't either. Enrights form was poor all year. But, we had no alternatives. Our half back line is fine. Add Killian back into the mix and along with Murphy and Crowley it looks solid. Midfield is a concern. I have said i time and again. I don't get the hype about Moran. He doesn't deliver on a consistent basis. In short you cant rely on him. Maybe its not his fault, we mightn't be playing the best way to get the best out of him. Maher is a solid player. Fitness is an issue because of the injuries. Realistically midfield is Jack Barry + An OtherOur half forward line has been a problem since Galvin retired and before then. We just don't seem to have the pace.And are too easy over ran. Ad if we do play the lads with pace like Darran ad SOB they are too small and get out muscled. Also were are no getting any scoring return from our half forwards really so the all the pressure is on the full forward line every day. Interesting. You dont rate Moran but you say Maher is "solid"? Dont get the logic in that. It seems to me from listening to some on here and some pundits that if Moran isnt outstanding in a game, people say he is playing poor. Even when he is doing "OK". Maher on the other hand can do OK, but seems to be given extra credit for that and people say he had a good game! I think Moran has suffered from not having a consistent midfielder next to him. Or even having consistently a similar type of midfielder next to him. Maher one day, Sheehan another, Buckley another, Barry another. All totally different types of player. David has to adjust his game depending on who is next to him. PS - What has Jack Barry done in 2017 in the championship to be the Number 1 midfielder?
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 21, 2017 16:37:46 GMT
I would try david moran at fullback for the league. Your cries to play Micheal Quirke there a few years ago fell on deaf ears. I wish you success in this crusade! Would you continue to play david at midfield given the way the game has moved on....and his habit of slowing down the play....... If not, where would you see him playing.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 21, 2017 16:39:45 GMT
Ah jeez Mick- I cant agree with that at all. Would be some waste Have you any recollection of Jacko being tried at full back! It didn't last long I can tell you. David would have been a supreme midfielder in a different era but Dublin, the trend setters, have emphasized the importance of pace in that region. The victors write the history as they say. Veteran, to be fair Jacko's mid field partner Sean Walsh was tried there and it was very successful.
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