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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 20:08:01 GMT
I think the captaincy is an irrelevancy but If there is even a tiny marginal gain from having one of your best players as captain, the current system is clearly not optimal. It is a nice honour for clubs for sure but is that really enough to maintain the status quo?
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Post by playitfair on Dec 29, 2017 22:55:27 GMT
Possibly
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 30, 2017 12:50:01 GMT
Who does or doesn't captain Kerry this year, next year or the year after will make zero difference. You'd expect 15 captains to be on the field when wearing the Kerry jersey!
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Post by veteran on Dec 30, 2017 13:48:14 GMT
Fifteen captains on the field when playing for Kerry? That just might be stretching it a little, more than a little . We were well short of that number on that miserable day when we met Mayo in the replay.
I have always felt that the captaincy is hugely important . I am not revealing an undisclosed secret of Fatima when I suggest that some people are natrural leaders while others are born to follow. Most of us belong to the latter category. Kieran Donaghy is a natural leader , by word and deed. What about Seamus Moynihan? Now , there was a leader of men. Who,can forget his displays against Armagh and Galway in 2000? Totally defiant , totally uplifting for supporters and colleagues alike. Those unforgettable displays a clarion call to his team mates , roaring from the mountain tops " this is what I am prepared to for the cause, emulate that" . How could his colleagues not respond to that towering leadership. They did.
I am sure there are a myriad reasons for our inept display against Meath the following year but taking the captaincy from this commander and giving it to a neophyte cannot have helped. There is something dispiriting about the nominated captain being unsure of his place.
Conceivably, the greater the team the less importance the captaincy assumes. Witness the glory years. All those lads were such incomparable players and that one of my grandaughters would have filled the role. In more famine like conditions the natural leader could swing the issue our way.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 30, 2017 14:15:28 GMT
I agree with veteran in his comments about some players being natural leaders - I believe these leaders can lead without necessarily being captain. When we have so many new players trying to make their mark leaders are very important to the team and squad. The captaincy is a club honour as much as it is a player honour and this system has its drawbacks in situations where the nominated captain is not a guaranteed starter. In such a situation it is even more important for the natural leaders to step up and provide strong and positive leadership.
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 30, 2017 14:36:23 GMT
Fifteen captains on the field when playing for Kerry? That just might be stretching it a little, more than a little . We were well short of that number on that miserable day when we met Mayo in the replay. I have always felt that the captaincy is hugely important . I am not revealing an undisclosed secret of Fatima when I suggest that some people are natrural leaders while others are born to follow. Most of us belong to the latter category. Kieran Donaghy is a natural leader , by word and deed. What about Seamus Moynihan? Now , there was a leader of men. Who,can forget his displays against Armagh and Galway in 2000? Totally defiant , totally uplifting for supporters and colleagues alike. Those unforgettable displays a clarion call to his team mates , roaring from the mountain tops " this is what I am prepared to for the cause, emulate that" . How could his colleagues not respond to that towering leadership. They did. I am sure there are a myriad reasons for our inept display against Meath the following year but taking the captaincy from this commander and giving it to a neophyte cannot have helped. There is something dispiriting about the nominated captain being unsure of his place. Conceivably, the greater the team the less importance the captaincy assumes. Witness the glory years. All those lads were such incomparable players and that one of my grandaughters would have filled the role. In more famine like conditions the natural leader could swing the issue our way. You won't make a silk purse out of sow's ear even if the catch is made from gold. Incidentally, Seamus Moynihan probably shouldn't have played in 2005 All-Ireland final because of fitness & injury. It is all swings and roundabouts.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,115
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 30, 2017 21:28:34 GMT
I agree with Veteran and other contributors that leadership manifests itself in the heat of battle and that will be one one of the attributes that secured the player's selection in the first place.
As well as that the manager can give control for various situations during the game to a particular player.
The complications arise at selection stage. I think Fionn will not make the team in 2018 and will struggle to make the 26. Eamonn may have to pick his best 25 plus the nominated captain. He may have to leave out a sub that would fit perfectly into the game plan.
It is just an issue for the Kerry managers that does not arise for other managers and could be removed.
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Post by sullyschoice on Dec 30, 2017 21:42:56 GMT
Did Kerry play a challenge match in the last two weeks with David Clifford lining out.
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Post by A.N. Other on Dec 31, 2017 15:29:00 GMT
Did Kerry play a challenge match in the last two weeks with David Clifford lining out. Yes, they did in Austin Stacks Park.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 1, 2018 0:46:41 GMT
Against who and how did it go
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 1, 2018 11:24:48 GMT
I agree with Veteran and other contributors that leadership manifests itself in the heat of battle and that will be one one of the attributes that secured the player's selection in the first place. As well as that the manager can give control for various situations during the game to a particular player. The complications arise at selection stage. I think Fionn will not make the team in 2018 and will struggle to make the 26. Eamonn may have to pick his best 25 plus the nominated captain. He may have to leave out a sub that would fit perfectly into the game plan. It is just an issue for the Kerry managers that does not arise for other managers and could be removed. Who says they have to pick Fionn Fitz?
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Post by A.N. Other on Jan 1, 2018 13:34:39 GMT
Against who and how did it go A vs B game. The A team won, several people were missing, They have been training inside in Mitchells and this hasnt been behind closed doors, the challenge game was though.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 1, 2018 14:14:51 GMT
A v B behind closed doors in December is bizarre!
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Post by southward on Jan 1, 2018 14:29:00 GMT
I agree with Veteran and other contributors that leadership manifests itself in the heat of battle and that will be one one of the attributes that secured the player's selection in the first place. As well as that the manager can give control for various situations during the game to a particular player. The complications arise at selection stage. I think Fionn will not make the team in 2018 and will struggle to make the 26. Eamonn may have to pick his best 25 plus the nominated captain. He may have to leave out a sub that would fit perfectly into the game plan. It is just an issue for the Kerry managers that does not arise for other managers and could be removed. Who says they have to pick Fionn Fitz? I imagine Crokes must have consulted Fitz to see if Fionn would be on the panel at least. Be a bit embarrassing if they didn't and he was subsequently dropped altogether. I wouldn't put any money on him being a starter though. Last year we seemed to have a different captain every game, which makes a bit of a mockery of it, imo.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jan 2, 2018 0:52:18 GMT
Let's call a spade a spade. If Fiona Fitz is one of our starting 6 backs at the business end next year (barring injuries) it's another year wasted in the development of this team
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Post by buck02 on Jan 17, 2018 9:43:00 GMT
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Post by jackiel on Jan 17, 2018 10:06:32 GMT
There was a "flatness" about the team that day from the time they landed in Croke Park, it just didn't feel right. I don't think any number of supporters could have changed that.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 17, 2018 10:45:53 GMT
The poor support base is obviously something that grates with the Kerry players and management. Gooch referenced it in his book about fellas coming up to him after the Down defeat giving out and he asking "Were ye there lads?".
Both games in question were on a Saturday afternoon and this was mentioned as a possible excuse Kerry people didnt travel. The replays against Armagh and Galway in 2000 were Saturday afternoons and that didnt stop the crowd from travelling.
The best support and colour in my opinion was from 1996-2000. Maybe if we go another 7 years without winning it, it might shake the supporters up a bit.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,115
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 17, 2018 13:35:31 GMT
There was a "flatness" about the team that day from the time they landed in Croke Park, it just didn't feel right. I don't think any number of supporters could have changed that. Last year qualifying for the league final unexpectedly and lifting themselves to beat Dublin affected them in the second half of the season. In the one week they had to prepare for the final they couldn't do much physically, all the preparation was mentally. They got a bounce from it but seemed to use all of that in the Munster final where they blew Cork away. After that they were in the decline. With the best will in the world there are only so many times that a team can peak in a season. Paul Geaney said as much in an interview in the Examiner over Christmas. Geaney was disappointed with Kerry’s showing against Galway in this year’s All-Ireland quarter-final, identifying a staleness that wasn’t fully eradicated before the semi-final replay defeat by Mayo. He believes Eamonn Fitzmaurice’s men were at their best for the Munster final win over Cork.
“Psychologically, I think we may have peaked in the Munster final. It was a longer year after having the high of winning the league and though we did not show too much emotion after the league, it was an important win for us. I think we may have tired a small bit there at the end. But I think it’s nothing major and nothing that cannot be fixed. It’s just a case of keeping guys fresh upstairs and keeping guys fresh as well in the legs.
“I think that this coming year the new format will help because it will be game after game rather than training for three weeks and having internal games and fellows beating each other to try and get on a team”.
Hopefully all concerned will have learned from this.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 17, 2018 15:15:02 GMT
Interesting theory kerryexile - something to consider however is that half of the team that started against Mayo in the semi final didnt have to lift themselves for the League final because they werent playing in it.
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Post by southward on Jan 17, 2018 19:26:13 GMT
I'm quite suprised at Mikey, calling out the fans like that. There's all sorts of reasons why people can't get to every game, not least the expense of it. Supporters don't get to put in mileage claims either. Sounds like a mindset from "inside the bubble" to me. Not exactly enhancing relations with the Kerry public here.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 17, 2018 19:51:22 GMT
I think the number (lack) of kerry supporters gets overplayed- there can be a decent kerry crowd at most matches but they are always quiet and reserved- especially compared to some of the loons you get in the mayo support.
Along with that is the kerry expat community has a considerable chunk in cork or Limerick while it you are from most counties in Ireland then the only option is to move to Dublin.
I’d wager there is a far larger chunk of mayo people in Dublin than kerry people.
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Post by champer on Jan 17, 2018 20:18:01 GMT
Closing the gate to training has further disconnected the team from supporters. And that was self inflicted. Mikey would want to pipe down a bit. Thin ice and all that
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 17, 2018 21:11:52 GMT
Fans at games have no relevance to the outcome of any game. Outcome is totally the responsibility of the players and management. The drawn game highlights were on TG4 during the week. Failing to close out a game that was won was totally careless from the players and management. Having a cut at fans that are "locked out" from the team is hilarious coming from within the "lifelong bubble" Most bubbles burst eventually. Looking forward to seeing what the management/selectors and players bring to the table in 2018. Kerry is full of brilliant and genuine fans who travel the length an breath of the country year on year. The best of luck to all involved in 2018.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 26, 2018 10:49:49 GMT
Fans at games have no relevance to the outcome of any game. Outcome is totally the responsibility of the players and management. The drawn game highlights were on TG4 during the week. Failing to close out a game that was won was totally careless from the players and management. Having a cut at fans that are "locked out" from the team is hilarious coming from within the "lifelong bubble" Most bubbles burst eventually. Looking forward to seeing what the management/selectors and players bring to the table in 2018. Kerry is full of brilliant and genuine fans who travel the length an breath of the country year on year. The best of luck to all involved in 2018. Can't agree with that. Not just fans at games but everyone around a squad and its players have an impact, all small but all add up. Each person in a squad and management team need their foundations and environment to be strong.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 26, 2018 11:15:11 GMT
Fans at games have no relevance to the outcome of any game. Outcome is totally the responsibility of the players and management. The drawn game highlights were on TG4 during the week. Failing to close out a game that was won was totally careless from the players and management. Having a cut at fans that are "locked out" from the team is hilarious coming from within the "lifelong bubble" Most bubbles burst eventually. Looking forward to seeing what the management/selectors and players bring to the table in 2018. Kerry is full of brilliant and genuine fans who travel the length an breath of the country year on year. The best of luck to all involved in 2018. Can't agree with that. Not just fans at games but everyone around a squad and its players have an impact, all small but all add up. Each person in a squad and management team need their foundations and environment to be strong. So your basically saying in a roundabout way that Dublin enjoy a massive advantage by playing 10 games approx each year at home in Croke Park. What about this notion of financial doping as touted in the media and also refs such as Dublin Joe in this matrix?
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Post by himself on Jan 26, 2018 13:08:25 GMT
He basically hasn't said anything remotely resembling that, Kerrygold. In all fairness, that's a massive diversion away from the actual subject at hand. Can you not just start a separate thread about all Dublin's unfair advantages and leave it out of other threads? I agree with MrRasherstoyou that the atmosphere and environment in which a squad operates has an effect on their performance; it's one of the fine margins that needs to be finely tuned. In that regard, I think there is an increasing close-guardedness and disconnect between the Kerry team and the Kerry fans (the Sky deal isn't helping households connect with the GAA), far less interaction with supporters and an increasing focus at County Board level on fundraising - I think they see the supporters more as consumers. I don't think it's healthy for an amateur sport and I don't think it helps our cause. Frankly, I think the focus on Mikey's comments is a big mountain being made out of a small molehill; they have no great significance for me.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 26, 2018 16:28:30 GMT
I don't agree with your first point himself - the discussion is about the relevance of fans present to the performance levels of a team.
I fully agree on your points about the close-guardedness and disconnect between the Kerry team and the Kerry fans, the fans seen as consumers and the Sky deal.
Is there really a need to wait until 8-9 pm on Friday evening to name a NFL team for example...........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 18:35:10 GMT
A bit of success would help the relationship with fans fairly quickly
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