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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 28, 2017 11:46:02 GMT
Savage is a good free taker from hand- dont know about off the ground
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 28, 2017 11:59:04 GMT
Whoever is in charge next year, please pick one keeper for the League and Championship and cut out this chopping and changing.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 28, 2017 12:09:39 GMT
Have we any sign of a reliable long range kicker emerging for the 45's/frees etc? David Clifford kicked two 50s in the semi final. I know he is a phenomenal talent but, i would be very wary of just firing him in at the deep end either with Kerry. Fine he looks big at minors etc but, the hits are a lot harder at senior level. If he plays senior next year is he ineligible for the U20's thereafter? Or is it only if he plays senior championship. Like if Clifford plays the league can he not play in the U20's? I suppose the U20's will be over by the time the championship starts but, if its like the normal course with the U20 / U21's till now we he might get no league time. And based on Eamonn's past record no league = no championship. There is talent coming through but whether there is enough of it in the right positions is the big questions. Realistically we need 3/4 new backs over the next year or two. Prob 2 midfielders to compliment Barry. A whole new half forward line and 2 inside forwards. That's just to keep the squad competitive. Is there that wealth of talent coming? Michael Burns i would have said is a great shout for our half forward line but, I dont think he started many games on Crokes run to the All Ireland. Jordan Kiely is another. Also we have to mould players as well.We cant just pigeon hole them based on their position as a minor. Donnachadha played midfield for Kerry minors, ditto Tommy Walsh and Kieran Donaghy. Look at their attributes and see where they best suit the team. I know Jack Barry played centre back with the Kerry minors. If we had the talent elsewhere could we try him as a centre back in the league. Try Griffin in midfield with Brendan O'Sullivan? Or Griffin centre back? 3 fine pacey strong players out the middle flanked by Crowley and Murphy? Try David Moran as a deep lying centre forward to pick the passes and be a stopper in in front of our half backline? He doesn't grab games by the scruff of the neck but, the play would be coming to him.
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Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 13:38:02 GMT
Can anyone answer me this question? Gavin Crowley is training with Kerry probably since November,Since then how many games of football has he played? Any guesses?
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Post by buck02 on Aug 28, 2017 14:00:08 GMT
Can anyone answer me this question? Gavin Crowley is training with Kerry probably since November,Since then how many games of football has he played? Any guesses? The 2 intermediate championship games for Templenoe? And 2 games in the county championship for Kenmare District?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 28, 2017 14:01:53 GMT
Mayo are better than Kerry now but this too will pass. Mayo had a few goods underage teams and they are reaping the benefits. In a few years Kerry will be better than Mayo in the same way that Kerry have reasserted themselves over Cork, Meath, Armagh, Tyrone and Galway.
I can't see Kerry reasserting themselves over Dublin however. Ever.
They have just too many players to pick from, too much money, too much everything.
A big army will always win the war against a smaller army with less men and resources.
It's not Kerrys problem.
The GAA created the monster.
It's their problem.
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Zubie
Junior Member
Posts: 43
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Post by Zubie on Aug 28, 2017 14:04:46 GMT
Have we any sign of a reliable long range kicker emerging for the 45's/frees etc? I imagine this is something a player has to go away and work on and put their hands up for. Looking at the weekends action there doesn't seem to be many of them around the country. No one at the level of Sheehan in his pomp.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 28, 2017 14:13:35 GMT
David Clifford kicked two 50s in the semi final. I know he is a phenomenal talent but, i would be very wary of just firing him in at the deep end either with Kerry. Fine he looks big at minors etc but, the hits are a lot harder at senior level. If he plays senior next year is he ineligible for the U20's thereafter? Or is it only if he plays senior championship. Like if Clifford plays the league can he not play in the U20's? I suppose the U20's will be over by the time the championship starts but, if its like the normal course with the U20 / U21's till now we he might get no league time. And based on Eamonn's past record no league = no championship. There is talent coming through but whether there is enough of it in the right positions is the big questions. Realistically we need 3/4 new backs over the next year or two. Prob 2 midfielders to compliment Barry. A whole new half forward line and 2 inside forwards. That's just to keep the squad competitive. Is there that wealth of talent coming? Michael Burns i would have said is a great shout for our half forward line but, I dont think he started many games on Crokes run to the All Ireland. Jordan Kiely is another. Also we have to mould players as well.We cant just pigeon hole them based on their position as a minor. Donnachadha played midfield for Kerry minors, ditto Tommy Walsh and Kieran Donaghy. Look at their attributes and see where they best suit the team. I know Jack Barry played centre back with the Kerry minors. If we had the talent elsewhere could we try him as a centre back in the league. Try Griffin in midfield with Brendan O'Sullivan? Or Griffin centre back? 3 fine pacey strong players out the middle flanked by Crowley and Murphy? Try David Moran as a deep lying centre forward to pick the passes and be a stopper in in front of our half backline? He doesn't grab games by the scruff of the neck but, the play would be coming to him. The U-20 will be run in conjunction with senior championship replacing the minors as the curtain raisers in many instances - U-17s will be in payed mid week and separate from seniors. My understanding is that if a player is named in senior panel then he will not be eligible for U-20 competition - seems illogical given that we could have some of our minors from '16 & this year.
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Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 14:14:21 GMT
The 2 intermediate championship games for Templenoe? And 2 games in the county championship for Kenmare District? He has played 2 games for Templenoe,1 game for the district and 3 sub appearances for Kerry. 4 and a half games in 10 months,How in gods name is a player supposed to improve by not playing football? And there are several more in his situation with Kerry.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 28, 2017 14:17:38 GMT
The 2 intermediate championship games for Templenoe? And 2 games in the county championship for Kenmare District? He has played 2 games for Templenoe,1 game for the district and 3 sub appearances for Kerry. 4 and a half games in 10 months,How in gods name is a player supposed to improve by not playing football? And there are several more in his situation with Kerry. I agree to a certain extent but the training matches with Kerry would be of a much higher standard than Division One County League. Especially this year with so many teams missing loads of J1 players during the summer when 5 or 6 rounds were played.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 14:25:32 GMT
I know he is a phenomenal talent but, i would be very wary of just firing him in at the deep end either with Kerry. Fine he looks big at minors etc but, the hits are a lot harder at senior level. If he plays senior next year is he ineligible for the U20's thereafter? Or is it only if he plays senior championship. Like if Clifford plays the league can he not play in the U20's? I suppose the U20's will be over by the time the championship starts but, if its like the normal course with the U20 / U21's till now we he might get no league time. And based on Eamonn's past record no league = no championship. There is talent coming through but whether there is enough of it in the right positions is the big questions. Realistically we need 3/4 new backs over the next year or two. Prob 2 midfielders to compliment Barry. A whole new half forward line and 2 inside forwards. That's just to keep the squad competitive. Is there that wealth of talent coming? Michael Burns i would have said is a great shout for our half forward line but, I dont think he started many games on Crokes run to the All Ireland. Jordan Kiely is another. Also we have to mould players as well.We cant just pigeon hole them based on their position as a minor. Donnachadha played midfield for Kerry minors, ditto Tommy Walsh and Kieran Donaghy. Look at their attributes and see where they best suit the team. I know Jack Barry played centre back with the Kerry minors. If we had the talent elsewhere could we try him as a centre back in the league. Try Griffin in midfield with Brendan O'Sullivan? Or Griffin centre back? 3 fine pacey strong players out the middle flanked by Crowley and Murphy? Try David Moran as a deep lying centre forward to pick the passes and be a stopper in in front of our half backline? He doesn't grab games by the scruff of the neck but, the play would be coming to him. The U-20 will be run in conjunction with senior championship replacing the minors as the curtain raisers in many instances - U-17s will be in payed mid week and separate from seniors. My understanding is that if a player is named in senior panel then he will not be eligible for U-20 competition - seems illogical given that we could have some of our minors from '16 & this year. I think it only applies to players named on senior championship panels that year. Sean O'Shea and David Clifford are the most likely to be caught in this loophole. U20s should also be over for the business end in August.
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Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 14:26:17 GMT
He has played 2 games for Templenoe,1 game for the district and 3 sub appearances for Kerry. 4 and a half games in 10 months,How in gods name is a player supposed to improve by not playing football? And there are several more in his situation with Kerry. I agree to a certain extent but the training matches with Kerry would be of a much higher standard than Division One County League. Especially this year with so many teams missing loads of J1 players during the summer when 5 or 6 rounds were played. Training matches would be of high standard but would there be the intensity of a competitive fixture? Would there be a ref riding you? Would there be fellas rugby tackling you as the clock is winding down? Would there be the same consequences if you kicked a wide? Templenoe were division one this year and he could of been marking the likes of Gooch,Conor Geaney,Tommy Walsh,Paul O Donoghue,Shane O Callaghan each week in games that actually mattered. That would of been far more beneficial than pretend games inside in Fitzgerald stadium
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 28, 2017 14:28:07 GMT
Too many yes men in the back room team? Question is, is that why they are there?
We need critical thinkers on the sideline not people who will just go with the flow.
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keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Aug 28, 2017 14:29:32 GMT
It must be a positive as well to be one of the best players in a game every week like these guys would be in county league. you are going to be a central figure all the time, you'll need to take responsibility, manage games on the fly etc. The quality might not always be as high but the situational awareness etc that you would be developing must be beneficial.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 14:32:25 GMT
He has played 2 games for Templenoe,1 game for the district and 3 sub appearances for Kerry. 4 and a half games in 10 months,How in gods name is a player supposed to improve by not playing football? And there are several more in his situation with Kerry. I agree to a certain extent but the training matches with Kerry would be of a much higher standard than Division One County League. Especially this year with so many teams missing loads of J1 players during the summer when 5 or 6 rounds were played. The players might have played too much football, Jan - weekend after the Munster final? There was pile of club all you can eat football packed into the window post NFL and during the Munster champion preparation window. Got a text this morning saying if the players played more with their clubs they would be better off. Not sure that stands up?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 14:35:56 GMT
I assume the Kerry model here is similar to what Dublin have done?
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Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 14:41:40 GMT
I assume the Kerry model here is similar to what Dublin have done? Dublin players play little to no club football,Other counties do things different as they can usually plan to be out of championship earlier. We have an extremely strong club scene,To protect that we need to let the clubs have access to the players. On top of that it will be beneficial for the players,You can argue about the first 15/18 players but everyone else should be playing consistently with their clubs. P.S Outside of the top dozen or so teams in Dublin club football is muck,A junior team in Kerry would be senior in Dublin
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Post by beantownfan on Aug 28, 2017 14:48:00 GMT
He has played 2 games for Templenoe,1 game for the district and 3 sub appearances for Kerry. 4 and a half games in 10 months,How in gods name is a player supposed to improve by not playing football? And there are several more in his situation with Kerry. I agree to a certain extent but the training matches with Kerry would be of a much higher standard than Division One County League. Especially this year with so many teams missing loads of J1 players during the summer when 5 or 6 rounds were played. The Kerry training games are probably of a higher standard but at the end of the day there is nothing at stake, other than your own place on the team. Even if the Co. League games are not at the same level to training games, there is a lot more at stake.. A win means something.. I can understand the problem the senior management have it this regard, the potential of losing a high profile player in a club game, but as we can see with James O, Donnacha, M Geaney, players can get injured in training also.. You have this training panel of 35 or so, 20 of them are getting game time from May though Sept/August (and even at that it is 4 or 5 games tops).. If Kerry win the munster final I think there should be a round of Co. Champ and all players should be made available for a round of Co League also.. Likewise in the run into the Munster championship co players should be available to the clubs.. The stunt with Sean O'Shea was the icing on the cake really.. Make him lose the opportunity to be part of a Co. Champ winning team, and obviously there was hardly any scenario where there was a plan to use him against Galway.
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Post by irishshadowfax on Aug 28, 2017 14:48:38 GMT
With the utmost respect I think the key to this rebuilding period is the removal of David Moran. He has been a great servant of Kerry football and some character to suffer two cruciate injuries and still come back to inter-county standard. He does some excellent things in games i.e. long foot passes, dummie solo's and high fetching...
But... I believe this Kerry team will find it difficult to develop with him midfield for the following reasons; he continuously carries the ball into the tackle slowing Kerry down and sometimes losing possession. He takes on too many long range points. He has to take every free around the middle third slowing the attack. He is too slow to stop runners or get a hand in the tackle. Teams can easily eliminate his strengths in the air with short kick outs or targeting the other side of the field.
He gets away with these flaws in games against weaker counties and can look very good. Then come August/September when he meets the intensity of the Dublin's and Mayo's he is found wanting.
My $.02
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 14:52:06 GMT
At least get your facts right if it is your big closing point
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Post by irishshadowfax on Aug 28, 2017 14:55:12 GMT
At least get your facts right if it is your big closing point Apologies, post edited.
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Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 15:00:37 GMT
Seven weeks between the League final and Munster champ v Clare,County players could still train with Kerry and play for 5 weekends with the club and pull up the week before Clare.
Play another club game the weekend after and go back with Kerry a full two weeks before the Munster Final.
Another 4 weeks now till the Galway game play 2 games in that period.
Players then stay exclusive with Kerry until season is over.
County team happy,clubs happy,players happy,Win,Win
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Post by buck02 on Aug 28, 2017 15:20:47 GMT
I'm playing devils advocate here a bit but if players were released to the club teams for more than they are, then how would that effect preparations for the inter county team?
There was county championship games during 3 weekends in May and a weekend in July. There was club championship games during two weekends in April. So 6 weekends during May, June and July players were available to clubs.
You need 33 or 34 players to play an A v B game, so when can those games be played? When can you get the B team to mimic what Mayo or Cork or whoever will do.
Like I said, I am posing the questions here. I dont think its as black and white an issue as some people make it out to be.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 28, 2017 15:23:48 GMT
I assume the Kerry model here is similar to what Dublin have done? Dublin players play little to no club football,Other counties do things different as they can usually plan to be out of championship earlier. We have an extremely strong club scene,To protect that we need to let the clubs have access to the players. On top of that it will be beneficial for the players,You can argue about the first 15/18 players but everyone else should be playing consistently with their clubs. P.S Outside of the top dozen or so teams in Dublin club football is muck,A junior team in Kerry would be senior in Dublin Tyrone inter county players play a lot of club football during the championship - to date, 13 games played in their leagues with county players having played in NINE of those.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 28, 2017 15:25:07 GMT
I'm playing devils advocate here a bit but if players were released to the club teams for more than they are, then how would that effect preparations for the inter county team?There was county championship games during 3 weekends in May and a weekend in July. There was club championship games during two weekends in April. So 6 weekends during May, June and July players were available to clubs. You need 33 or 34 players to play an A v B game, so when can those games be played? When can you get the B team to mimic what Mayo or Cork or whoever will do. Like I said, I am posing the questions here. I dont think its as black and white an issue as some people make it out to be. I am being purely sarcastic here so so don't take offence. But, all the time being hot-housed inside in Killarney for the past few months didn't do them much fukcing good against Mayo!
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 28, 2017 15:25:48 GMT
Also in Dublin the players not on the first 15-18 are release back to their clubs for county league. According to some lad on the radio yesterday (Could be lies too)
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Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 15:27:56 GMT
I'm playing devils advocate here a bit but if players were released to the club teams for more than they are, then how would that effect preparations for the inter county team? There was county championship games during 3 weekends in May and a weekend in July. There was club championship games during two weekends in April. So 6 weekends during May, June and July players were available to clubs. You need 33 or 34 players to play an A v B game, so when can those games be played? When can you get the B team to mimic what Mayo or Cork or whoever will do. Like I said, I am posing the questions here. I dont think its as black and white an issue as some people make it out to be. We are lead to believe that county players train 5 nights week? So any of those 5 nights could be sufficient to play those A v B games,Kerry players are training 10 months of the year with the county but not playing games,That's the real issue. It's fine for Paul Geaney & David Moran etc.. they play every games for Kerry but what about from number 20 upwards? Realistically how much competitive football has Tom O Sullivan played this year before Sunday? How much has Darran played since he came back with Kerry in March? These lads are putting in hundreds of hours training for what? to play in practice games in Fitz stadium? Every player wants to play,Let them play
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 15:31:41 GMT
I'm playing devils advocate here a bit but if players were released to the club teams for more than they are, then how would that effect preparations for the inter county team? There was county championship games during 3 weekends in May and a weekend in July. There was club championship games during two weekends in April. So 6 weekends during May, June and July players were available to clubs. You need 33 or 34 players to play an A v B game, so when can those games be played? When can you get the B team to mimic what Mayo or Cork or whoever will do. Like I said, I am posing the questions here. I dont think its as black and white an issue as some people make it out to be. Why did Kerry turn up the way they did for the past two weekends? How did they lose so much form from the league final? How can you prepare a team for July/August with that schedule of club commitment? How did Mayo go from being scarp heap material in the qualifiers to be sublime in the replay v Kerry? I think lack of games at intercounty level during the summer is a contributing factor for Kerry. That is why I welcome the super 8. If we had the super 8 this year I think Kerry would have made it to the final. I cant get my head around the dollop of eat all you can club football as listed above. What exactly is all this back door club championship football serving and do we really need the additional senior club championship competition?
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Post by buck02 on Aug 28, 2017 15:32:39 GMT
I'm playing devils advocate here a bit but if players were released to the club teams for more than they are, then how would that effect preparations for the inter county team?There was county championship games during 3 weekends in May and a weekend in July. There was club championship games during two weekends in April. So 6 weekends during May, June and July players were available to clubs. You need 33 or 34 players to play an A v B game, so when can those games be played? When can you get the B team to mimic what Mayo or Cork or whoever will do. Like I said, I am posing the questions here. I dont think its as black and white an issue as some people make it out to be. I am being purely sarcastic here so so don't take offence. But, all the time being hot-housed inside in Killarney for the past few months didn't do them much fukcing good against Mayo! Yes but there is an example in the post above yours about Tyrone fellas playing 9 league games. It didnt do them much fcuking good against Dublin!
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 15:34:10 GMT
Dublin players play little to no club football,Other counties do things different as they can usually plan to be out of championship earlier. We have an extremely strong club scene,To protect that we need to let the clubs have access to the players. On top of that it will be beneficial for the players,You can argue about the first 15/18 players but everyone else should be playing consistently with their clubs. P.S Outside of the top dozen or so teams in Dublin club football is muck,A junior team in Kerry would be senior in Dublin Tyrone inter county players play a lot of club football during the championship - to date, 13 games played in their leagues with county players having played in NINE of those. And Dublin kicked the ***** out of them!
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