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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 30, 2017 18:44:47 GMT
Looking at the decisions that went against us is one-eyed.
We also got a pile of very soft frees from our rabid attacks that got us back to four points.
Paddy Durcan's red card was as ridiculous as Crowley's.
Fair enough Darren O'Sullivan's black card was a joke but he was replaced by a player many on here were calling on to start.
I would argue that we were so vulnerable at the back that Gough's incessant whistling may well have stopped Mayo getting into a real groove and really hurting us.
Mayo were so obviously the better team that invoking Gough as a reason for our loss is approaching pathetic.
I don't want to see Gough ever again - we don't even have the memory of a classic to balm the wounds, but winning teams do not allow the ref play a part in deciding the winners.
At the very least we should be looking at Kerry and what Kerry can control.
I'd hate for Kerry to get a name for sour grapes and whinging when beaten by that better team.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 30, 2017 19:25:37 GMT
Looking at the decisions that went against us is one-eyed. We also got a pile of very soft frees from our rabid attacks that got us back to four points. Paddy Durcan's red card was as ridiculous as Crowley's. Fair enough Darren O'Sullivan's black card was a joke but he was replaced by a player many on here were calling on to start. I would argue that we were so vulnerable at the back that Gough's incessant whistling may well have stopped Mayo getting into a real groove and really hurting us. Mayo were so obviously the better team that invoking Gough as a reason for our loss is approaching pathetic. I don't want to see Gough ever again - we don't even have the memory of a classic to balm the wounds, but winning teams do not allow the ref play a part in deciding the winners. At the very least we should be looking at Kerry and what Kerry can control. I'd hate for Kerry to get a name for sour grapes and whinging when beaten by that better team. Gough was not biased in that game. The linesman did Darren. Gough would have given Kerry enough frees to win it if we had possession. I think Gough is a fair ref except when he is put in the impossible situation of reffing Dublin. He is fussy yet.... a bit of a narcissist i'd say but he was not the reason for Kerrys defeat to Mayo |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 19:31:49 GMT
Gough had a poor game. It is not about him being biased or saying he cost us the game. He loves the attention and likes to demonstrate that he spots things nobody else would.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 30, 2017 21:18:38 GMT
I don't see where anyone is blaming the ref for the loss on Sunday. Pity we can't discuss all aspects of the game without the pathetic whinging that we might be pathetic whingers blaming the ref for the loss. It is becoming a pain in the hole at this stage. We all live in the real world of discussion and debate. As football fans were entitled to discuss every aspect of every game. That doesn't make us whingers nor does it make Kerry whingers either. If the ref makes mistakes we're entitled to discuss same.
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Post by veteran on Aug 30, 2017 22:10:39 GMT
I don't see where anyone is blaming the ref for the loss on Sunday. Pity we can't discuss all aspects of the game without the pathetic whinging that we might be pathetic whingers blaming the ref for the loss. It is becoming a pain in the hole at this stage. We all live in the real world of discussion and debate. As football fans were entitled to discuss every aspect of every game. That doesn't make us whingers nor does it make Kerry whingers either. If the ref makes mistakes we're entitled to discuss same. Could not disagree with that. |
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 31, 2017 14:12:36 GMT
I don't see where anyone is blaming the ref for the loss on Sunday. Pity we can't discuss all aspects of the game without the pathetic whinging that we might be pathetic whingers blaming the ref for the loss. It is becoming a pain in the hole at this stage. We all live in the real world of discussion and debate. As football fans were entitled to discuss every aspect of every game. That doesn't make us whingers nor does it make Kerry whingers either. If the ref makes mistakes we're entitled to discuss same. Could not disagree with that. I agree, let's not kid ourselves. This game was lost long before we reached Croke Park this Summer. I have no issue with the tactics used on the first day as we didn't put the time into developing a sweeper system. ( that's another days argument). We decided that our defence would do reasonably well against Mayo and we would score more at the other end. The only problem was that when each and every one of our full back line got roasted instead of changing personnel as the tactic of we'll score more than you was sort of working on day one we couldn't. Instead of swapping out a few of the full back line or even rejigging the defence we couldn't. Eamonn looks to the bench and see Johnathan Lyne who is not an intercounty back. Fionn who has been roasted in the previous game against Galway. And Tom O'Sullivan who he gave a few minutes to in the league. No Foley or Shannahan that he could have given championship minute's to against cork or clare. Instead he abandons his forward centred philosophy and drops James and plays a sweeper. The only real problem is James and Geaney contribute the bulk of our scores. On averages what has Buckley scored in games over his career in the championship? 2 points per game. D Walsh a point per game? O'Brien a point per game? Donaghy a point per game? Geaney 5 points per game at a push? So we expected to beat Mayo with out starting forwards scoring based on average 10 points per game? And limit Mayos starters to less. The issue isn't the sweeper as such it's the removal of James to facilitate it |
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Post by statistician on Aug 31, 2017 14:41:13 GMT
Could not disagree with that. I agree, let's not kid ourselves. This game was lost long before we reached Croke Park this Summer. I have no issue with the tactics used on the first day as we didn't put the time into developing a sweeper system. ( that's another days argument). We decided that our defence would do reasonably well against Mayo and we would score more at the other end. The only problem was that when each and every one of our full back line got roasted instead of changing personnel as the tactic of we'll score more than you was sort of working on day one we couldn't. Instead of swapping out a few of the full back line or even rejigging the defence we couldn't. Eamonn looks to the bench and see Johnathan Lyne who is not an intercounty back. Fionn who has been roasted in the previous game against Galway. And Tom O'Sullivan who he gave a few minutes to in the league. No Foley or Shannahan that he could have given championship minute's to against cork or clare. Instead he abandons his forward centred philosophy and drops James and plays a sweeper. The only real problem is James and Geaney contribute the bulk of our scores. On averages what has Buckley scored in games over his career in the championship? 2 points per game. D Walsh a point per game? O'Brien a point per game? Donaghy a point per game? Geaney 5 points per game at a push? So we expected to beat Mayo with out starting forwards scoring based on average 10 points per game? And limit Mayos starters to less. The issue isn't the sweeper as such it's the removal of James to facilitate it Great post...Great points all well made. The whole tactical mess reminded me of the episode of Only Fools and Horses where Del Boy and Rodney were working on 1 chandelier and their Grandfather was upstairs working on the other one at the opposite side of the room. We were always heading for disaster. |
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 31, 2017 14:49:57 GMT
What I can't get my head around is how Sheehy, Hassett and Fitzgerald (all forwards) went along with the idea of replacing a marquee inside forward with another back just to implement a sweeper. Was it too simplistic to leave the 3 man full-forward line alone and instead ask Donnchadh Walsh or Johnny Buckley to drop back deeper?
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Post by statistician on Aug 31, 2017 15:18:13 GMT
What I can't get my head around is how Sheehy, Hassett and Fitzgerald (all forwards) went along with the idea of replacing a marquee inside forward with another back just to implement a sweeper. Was it too simplistic to leave the 3 man full-forward line alone and instead ask Donnchadh Walsh or Johnny Buckley to drop back deeper? Shur selectors are only there for the drive and to act as an advisor for the players on certain issues...Did you ever hear a Manager claim he got it wrong and the Selectors are the men to heap the praise on? Most unlikely. A lot of people say the Caddy in Golf is important but I could never go along with such a theory. 99.9% of golfers have their own ideas and don't want to be told anything. Whenever Kerry lose a Championship Match the Manager and Selection Committee should be brought on Radio Kerry to address the County with an explanation of what went wrong. It would save a lot of hurt and upset with people presuming and guessing as to what happened and what should have happened. Kerry is so much different to other counties in that defeat is treated like a death in the Family for 10 days after defeat in a Championship match. However the wounds always heal well before Christmas and the fanatics and die hards will be on here predicting the first 15 for the first league game all the Autumn and Winter. Gaelic Football like all sports was designed for fun and enjoyment and Kerry people love that aspect of it...except when a loss is experienced!!! |
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Post by buck02 on Aug 31, 2017 16:21:10 GMT
In his piece in the Irish Time on August 1st Jim McGuinness summed up Kerry as:
"Looking at the personnel, how do you assess them: inside attack, yes; half forwards, not sure; middle of the park, one of them; half backs, untested against consistently direct attacks; full-back line, question marks?"
It was spot on when you look at how the Mayo games panned out.
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dart
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Post by dart on Aug 31, 2017 17:53:32 GMT
There is the issue of the completely malfunctioning half forward line.
Over the last couple of years Paul Murphy was stationed there, alongside the ever present D Walsh and a mix of M Geaney, Buckley, O'Brien and this year McCarthy.
Murphy has reverted to his best position in the half backs, however only O'Brien seemed to be fully fit of the remaining players for the line and he started the championship on the bench.
So at least two if not three half forwards need to be found for 2018 if we are to go anywhere.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 31, 2017 18:16:36 GMT
I'd say Tom Sullivan could make a success of wing forward?
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Post by colinsworth1 on Aug 31, 2017 19:12:31 GMT
There is the issue of the completely malfunctioning half forward line. Over the last couple of years Paul Murphy was stationed there, alongside the ever present D Walsh and a mix of M Geaney, Buckley, O'Brien and this year McCarthy. Murphy has reverted to his best position in the half backs, however only O'Brien seemed to be fully fit of the remaining players for the line and he started the championship on the bench. So at least two if not three half forwards need to be found for 2018 if we are to go anywhere. Hard to believe now that we sent out a clearly injured wing forward the first day against mayo (Mike Geaney) that gamble backfired and then we go out the following week and gamble on yet another injured wing forward ( Donnscha Walsh ) that also backfired couple that with The removal of James O and you know now why we did not threaten Enough up front against a team that's clearly fitter stronger and more motivated than us. It's a wonder how we only got beat by five points ! I don't care how good you think a player is if he's not at least 80% Or 90% fit surely the backup then becomes a better option. |
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 31, 2017 22:10:48 GMT
With the Noah's ark brim full of fcuk ups, everywhere, it was a Trojan performance to be within 5 at the end 😛
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Post by wayupnorth on Sept 1, 2017 5:49:34 GMT
With the Noah's ark brim full of fcuk ups, everywhere, it was a Trojan performance to be within 5 at the end 😛 Just as it was (with the benefit of hindsight) a similar performance to draw the first day out. As I said in an earlier post we do have quality players. The bulk of the blame rests with the sideline. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 1, 2017 6:28:54 GMT
With the Noah's ark brim full of fcuk ups, everywhere, it was a Trojan performance to be within 5 at the end 😛 Just as it was (with the benefit of hindsight) a similar performance to draw the first day out. As I said in an earlier post we do have quality players. The bulk of the blame rests with the sideline. Do we though? I thought we did but as the week has gone on I'm starting to wonder if we have the quality we thought we had. Our FB line was a shambles, we had no one bar Fionn to go in there. Our Midfield was slow and laborious and our HF line is the worst line on the field, no pace or scoring threat. While EF made some bizarre selections I am wondering now if he actually has this group over performing. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 1, 2017 6:31:52 GMT
There is the issue of the completely malfunctioning half forward line. Over the last couple of years Paul Murphy was stationed there, alongside the ever present D Walsh and a mix of M Geaney, Buckley, O'Brien and this year McCarthy. Murphy has reverted to his best position in the half backs, however only O'Brien seemed to be fully fit of the remaining players for the line and he started the championship on the bench. So at least two if not three half forwards need to be found for 2018 if we are to go anywhere. Hard to believe now that we sent out a clearly injured wing forward the first day against mayo (Mike Geaney) that gamble backfired and then we go out the following week and gamble on yet another injured wing forward ( Donnscha Walsh ) that also backfired couple that with The removal of James O and you know now why we did not threaten Enough up front against a team that's clearly fitter stronger and more motivated than us. It's a wonder how we only got beat by five points ! I don't care how good you think a player is if he's not at least 80% Or 90% fit surely the backup then becomes a better option. Geaney picked up the knock during the mayo game- he wasn't injured going in to it |
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2017 8:10:49 GMT
Just as it was (with the benefit of hindsight) a similar performance to draw the first day out. As I said in an earlier post we do have quality players. The bulk of the blame rests with the sideline. Do we though? I thought we did but as the week has gone on I'm starting to wonder if we have the quality we thought we had. Our FB line was a shambles, we had no one bar Fionn to go in there. Our Midfield was slow and laborious and our HF line is the worst line on the field, no pace or scoring threat. While EF made some bizarre selections I am wondering now if he actually has this group over performing. Kerry are at the level they were in 2015 and 2016. Average team not scoring enough long range points. Good enough to win in 2014 via Mayo and Donegal. Only got 9 points in that final. The difference is that Mayo are a lot better than 2014 and I believe they would have beaten us in 2015 and 2016 Dublin are light years better than 2014 |
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Post by buck02 on Sept 1, 2017 8:24:23 GMT
I was thinking back to the 10 days at the end of March, start of April where we hammered Cork in the U21 final, hammered Tyrone in the league and beat Dublin in the league final. It seems a long, long time ago now.
Things werent as good as they seemed then and probably arent as bad as they seem now.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 1, 2017 10:40:14 GMT
I'm grateful to Mayo for saving us the heartache of losing, heavily, to a Dublin team going for the 3 in a row.
And I've no doubt that we would have lost to Dublin.
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kot
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Post by kot on Sept 1, 2017 13:30:44 GMT
I'm grateful to Mayo for saving us the heartache of losing, heavily, to a Dublin team going for the 3 in a row. And I've no doubt that we would have lost to Dublin. That said, I hope Mayo go and halt there progress but jesus it is going to take some effort! |
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 1, 2017 13:51:51 GMT
I do hold out some hope for Mayo just because of their sheer termination and togetherness however if an under performing Kerry managed 17 points against them what could Dublin do?
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Post by buck02 on Sept 1, 2017 15:24:15 GMT
I do hold out some hope for Mayo just because of their sheer termination and togetherness however if an under performing Kerry managed 17 points against them what could Dublin do? Dont forget the 3 goal chances. Last year Dublin peaked for the semi final against Kerry. Their performance in the drawn final was down hugely from their semi final performance. Mayo better hope for similar this year. |
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 2, 2017 9:18:48 GMT
Do we though? I thought we did but as the week has gone on I'm starting to wonder if we have the quality we thought we had. Our FB line was a shambles, we had no one bar Fionn to go in there. Our Midfield was slow and laborious and our HF line is the worst line on the field, no pace or scoring threat. While EF made some bizarre selections I am wondering now if he actually has this group over performing. Kerry are at the level they were in 2015 and 2016. Average team not scoring enough long range points. Good enough to win in 2014 via Mayo and Donegal. Only got 9 points in that final. The difference is that Mayo are a lot better than 2014 and I believe they would have beaten us in 2015 and 2016 Dublin are light years better than 2014 I would argue not, just smarter about the way they play. I still think the 2014 team played the best football I have seen in this era but gambled too much and not smartly enough Vs Donegal that time. From halfway through the Nat League semi-final to 25 minutes into the All-I semifinal they were unadulterated brilliance, and haven't hit those heights ever since because of what the rest of that game knocked out of them, and the passage of time on some great players, and the loss of some. |
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2017 11:00:59 GMT
Being smart is part of greatness. The best football I have see Kerry play in twenty years was in 2002 in the lead up to the final. Armagh provided the wake up call.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 2, 2017 14:48:24 GMT
"Ireland where the inevitable never happens and the unexpected constantly occurs" but could Mayo defy?
On the face of it very hard to see the Dubs falling - Moran is a stride short and bridging that gap is daunting.
I feel we gave up and started going for goals when the game was in the melting pot, so Mayo closed out a faltering opponent on the day. Why that was the case is for another day.
The only ones who can beat Dublin in my books is themselves and while that happened in the distant past I think Gavin is far too grounded and as are most managers today. Then again social media is ever powerful but they aree probably cut off fronm that if they have any sense.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 2, 2017 14:54:37 GMT
Being smart is part of greatness. The best football I have see Kerry play in twenty years was in 2002 in the lead up to the final. Armagh provided the wake up call. The semi final performance against Cork is one my favourite memories. |
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 2, 2017 22:20:09 GMT
Being smart is part of greatness. The best football I have see Kerry play in twenty years was in 2002 in the lead up to the final. Armagh provided the wake up call. The semi final performance against Cork is one my favourite memories. Cinneide set the tone that day with the first point a bomb from out in right half forward zone. That day also showed our defensive frailties, that clown Fionnan Murray got a goal in second half and they missed other chances too, the final score swept that under the carpet |
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 3, 2017 10:00:31 GMT
Being smart is part of greatness. The best football I have see Kerry play in twenty years was in 2002 in the lead up to the final. Armagh provided the wake up call. Armagh were somewhat like Mayo then, they had lost a few All-I semi-finals where they could or should have won, they had learned alot, the semi-final win was a watershed for them as it proved, finally beating a fairly major force from outside their own province, or to put it another way, winning a major game in Croker. And the way they won it. Apart from that they brought holy war in the final, and had three of the best forwards of the era in Stevie, McConville, and Clarke, plus one of the best all-round players and leaders of the time, Geeser. Lee Keegan could be Mayo's McGeeney. Andy Moran can be McConville. I'm not convinced they have a Clarke, though a couple of the younger lads have potential. They don't have a Stevie, unless COC improves from play. Mayo remind me most of Dublin 1995. And they would have beaten a young upcoming Tyrone in the final too, and I said that before Tyrone imploded against Dublin. Mayo's win over Kerry in the semi-final is not unlike Dublin's over Cork in the 95 semi-final, though mentally a bigger factor for Mayo all things considered. |
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2017 11:22:17 GMT
Yeah but Dublin are not like Kerry in 2002. No Declan, Donaghy, Aiden and Paul Galvin by Kerry in 2002 to provide the necessary steel. Kerrys half forward had to be refitted.
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