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Post by pintpleasejohn on Aug 28, 2017 20:51:30 GMT
Fair point, I just feel the mark griffin at full back idea has been tried and tested for too long now with too little results. At that there were definite signs yesterday that Morley seemed to be out of his depth from a defensive aspect. Who would you like to see at full back? Jason Foley Dead on! Can't believe he slipped my mind |
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kerryscoob
Senior Member
Where's the Hudson river
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Post by kerryscoob on Aug 28, 2017 21:26:29 GMT
Kerrys coop, I think you are being harsh, Kerry set up yesterday to dull the Mayo full forward line and in doing so we ended up taking the sharpness of our own. Mayo are a good team but management simply spent too many hours with a slide rule and pencil in hand before this encounter. We have problems in defence but we have a serious threat in our full forward line, we took one third of that threat out and we took our best link player was sent to the trenches and told not to move. We played in a very disjointed manner as a result and despite this with a pinch of luck we would have scored two goals. Add to this the two sendings off of Darren which was simply rediculous and Crowley who were serious options in a stuttering attack,,, despite a poor performance we could have staggered over the line and learned many valuable lessons before the final Mayo are a fine team and I actually think they will give the Dubs a right bellyful and in that thought how far off are we. We over thought last Saturday's game and seriuysly damaged our attacking threat, it's sport after all and where would we be without Monday morning quarterbacks ?? Don't disagree, not the first time has this management team overthought, think back to 2015 final. We removed all natural thinking from the footballers and sent them out with a poor plan /strategy. I'm not knocking this Mayo team and hope they get over the line in Sept. I'm not looking for a major overhaul but we do need to trust in youth. Unless we give them experience they will never learn. I dont believe we are light years behind Mayo, yes the ref played a significant part effecting decision making on the pitch. Look at the Dubs starting 6 forwards yesterday only 2 of last years final team..we were ranting and raving in May about the u21 team |
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 28, 2017 21:31:30 GMT
We adapted in 2014 for Donegal, but the players knew their roles and knew what was expected of them. They looked clueless on Saturday and that is down to the sideline. End of. I agree but the EF should be wise enough now that you can't just a teach a new way of playing in 6 days. To get it right takes many games and trainings. Especially a system or style that is alien to our traditional style and strengths. In fairness the 2014 plan wasn't that hard to implement. Only one half back was allowed attack at a time. Everyone else held their positions. If the shot was on shoot from distance. Much easier to implement as players were still playing in their positions. Throwing in a sweeper prob after 1 training session and giving a lad his debut in the process was madness. Why not start Griffin at centre back and let Paul Murphy sweep from corner corner forward. Or drop Buckley and play Murphy centre forward and keep James? |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 28, 2017 21:38:01 GMT
Didnt Aiden play as a sweeper in the 2016 semi final v Dublin?
Its hardly rocket science to get one half back to drop back to the D and give the opponent in possession no option for the outball.
It gives an easy option for the short kickout if the opponents sweeper stays put.
I cant believe all the talk about the difficulty of trying to implement a sweeper system in 6 days.
By the way.... did the second goal come at a time when Paul Murphy wasnt playing as sweeper.... says something doesn't it if thats true! I was at the Hill end
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falveyb2k
Fanatical Member
"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
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Post by falveyb2k on Aug 28, 2017 21:56:20 GMT
Our biggest problem wasn't the sweeper or lack of it(although if we did use the sweeper you play pace in your half forward line, with 2 of stephen,darran, james and not buckley and walsh). It was the lack of winning primary posession and then not putting enough heat into winning the ball. We didn't have the pace/strength/ferocity required to win ball and were on the back foot for most of the first half www.the42.ie/kerry-mayo-analysis-3569073-Aug2017/?utm_source=twitter_self |
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MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Aug 28, 2017 22:05:10 GMT
As I said before the game my main problem with current management is they are too conservative. This semi was lost back in May/June when we played Clare and Cork - young lads who had played well in the League run-in were dropped in favour of the more established crew. Opportunity lost to give them a couple of games in championship. Even if we had managed to lose to Clare or Cork, a run through the back door is no harm - gives lads game time and builds team spirit.
Contrast this to Donegal and Dublin who have put the new lads in. Donegal exited but at least lads have had the experience. Dubs are stronger overall because they have the luxury of blooding players into a stronger team.
As a result, we will now be throwing 6/7 new lads in next Spring - at least I hope we are.... better late than never.
For me too many mistakes in big games in Croker. Can't recall the lad who was thrown in with 10 min to go in 2013 semi in defence - with no prior game. 2015 - leaving Star and Murphy on the sideline, and leaving Marc have a place on subs even though he was not fit to play. Withdrawing James in 15, and Geaney last year. Darren not starting this year. Enright left on Moran for not 1, but 2 games - this was shambolic - any club manager would have swopped him onto someone else after 20 min of the first game.
Give the young lads a chance and don't drop them when the sod drys out - would not mind a couple of barren years if you could see the potential coming through.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 28, 2017 22:12:26 GMT
As I said before the game my main problem with current management is they are too conservative. This semi was lost back in May/June when we played Clare and Cork - young lads who had played well in the League run-in were dropped in favour of the more established crew. Opportunity lost to give them a couple of games in championship. Even if we had managed to lose to Clare or Cork, a run through the back door is no harm - gives lads game time and builds team spirit. Contrast this to Donegal and Dublin who have put the new lads in. Donegal exited but at least lads have had the experience. Dubs are stronger overall because they have the luxury of blooding players into a stronger team. As a result, we will now be throwing 6/7 new lads in next Spring - at least I hope we are.... better late than never. For me too many mistakes in big games in Croker. Can't recall the lad who was thrown in with 10 min to go in 2013 semi in defence - with no prior game. 2015 - leaving Star and Murphy on the sideline, and leaving Marc have a place on subs even though he was not fit to play. Withdrawing James in 15, and Geaney last year. Darren not starting this year. Enright left on Moran for not 1, but 2 games - this was shambolic - any club manager would have swopped him onto someone else after 20 min of the first game. Give the young lads a chance and don't drop them when the sod drys out - would not mind a couple of barren years if you could see the potential coming through. Jack Sherwood was the lad |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 28, 2017 22:18:44 GMT
The worry is that we don't know why there is a dip in form and at best it is down to such a wide range of issues and which makes it harder to solve. The easiest thing for current management to do is to walk and the other option is to stay for a few more years - the reality is that we are unlikely to win Sam within that timescale but if they walked now they could return as has happened before - if they hung on they would hardly get a second go.
The other question is who would take on the team now - of course we have minors coming through but apart from the freak of nature that is Clifford, that is still a few years away. Jason Foley at 20 yrs old and after a good league performance he is still not a championship starter panellist so that pipeline will give us say 3 a year, say starting next year, so how long to get to the stage where we have a top class panel of 20+? Who will still be there from the current starters - Paul Geaney, Crowley, Paul Murphy, Johnny Buckley, JOD, Morley, Barry, Ó Beaglaoich, SOB, Shanahan, Savage, S Ryan? - you can punch holes in that but consider the general thrust of my thinking.
Like any manager, Éamonn owes us nil and moreover after delivering with a team 'in transition' in '14.
And while people can point to errs, albeit with the benefit of hindsight, who better have we got?
I think contributors must respect those involved and be with our team in these times just as we were in the better times -and by team I mean each and every one involved, their partners and families. We are blessed of fortune and most counties would love to be us - are we forgetting that we are in the final for a 4 in a row MFC?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 6:39:12 GMT
There's a been a lot of talk about sweeper systems and how defensively we set up, but in reality, I think the main reason why we lost that game is quite simple. We got obliterated in midfield. At full time, mayo had won all their kick outs and we had won less than half of our own. If you dominate at midfield, you dominate the game. Any defensive setup, including the use of a sweeper, is going to break down when there's a meltdown in midfield.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 29, 2017 7:21:48 GMT
An interesting stat from the drawn game was on the Mayo kickout - when Mayo went short they were most effective scoring 1-06 from this restart - they had much less joy when forced to kick it long. By dropping a man back to sweep we effectively played to their strengths, not our own.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 29, 2017 7:38:22 GMT
As I said before the game my main problem with current management is they are too conservative. This semi was lost back in May/June when we played Clare and Cork - young lads who had played well in the League run-in were dropped in favour of the more established crew. Opportunity lost to give them a couple of games in championship. Even if we had managed to lose to Clare or Cork, a run through the back door is no harm - gives lads game time and builds team spirit. Contrast this to Donegal and Dublin who have put the new lads in. Donegal exited but at least lads have had the experience. Dubs are stronger overall because they have the luxury of blooding players into a stronger team. As a result, we will now be throwing 6/7 new lads in next Spring - at least I hope we are.... better late than never. For me too many mistakes in big games in Croker. Can't recall the lad who was thrown in with 10 min to go in 2013 semi in defence - with no prior game. 2015 - leaving Star and Murphy on the sideline, and leaving Marc have a place on subs even though he was not fit to play. Withdrawing James in 15, and Geaney last year. Darren not starting this year. Enright left on Moran for not 1, but 2 games - this was shambolic - any club manager would have swopped him onto someone else after 20 min of the first game.Give the young lads a chance and don't drop them when the sod drys out - would not mind a couple of barren years if you could see the potential coming through. All of the above is simply awful - add in substituting Star at the end of the drawn game when HE could have been on the edge of the square for the last free kick - if Mayo had received the free, he was the one man you would have wanted defending your square ( remember Limerick 2014?). Last week end we played a clearly unfit Donncha for 35 minutes - wonder what James and Darran made of that decision? Its not good enough, period - time for change. |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 29, 2017 7:58:05 GMT
An interesting stat from the drawn game was on the Mayo kickout - when Mayo went short they were most effective scoring 1-06 from this restart - they had much less joy when forced to kick it long. By dropping a man back to sweep we effectively played to their strengths, not our own. Not true in my opinion to say that the kerry sweeper gave Mayo handy kickouts to an unmarked man ....it was only when Crowley got a red card that that happened. It was the tactic of handpassing it back to Clarke that made the difference....every Mayo back was being marked in the first half but Mayo held possession from all ten kickouts. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 29, 2017 7:59:36 GMT
As I said before the game my main problem with current management is they are too conservative. This semi was lost back in May/June when we played Clare and Cork - young lads who had played well in the League run-in were dropped in favour of the more established crew. Opportunity lost to give them a couple of games in championship. Even if we had managed to lose to Clare or Cork, a run through the back door is no harm - gives lads game time and builds team spirit. Contrast this to Donegal and Dublin who have put the new lads in. Donegal exited but at least lads have had the experience. Dubs are stronger overall because they have the luxury of blooding players into a stronger team. As a result, we will now be throwing 6/7 new lads in next Spring - at least I hope we are.... better late than never. For me too many mistakes in big games in Croker. Can't recall the lad who was thrown in with 10 min to go in 2013 semi in defence - with no prior game. 2015 - leaving Star and Murphy on the sideline, and leaving Marc have a place on subs even though he was not fit to play. Withdrawing James in 15, and Geaney last year. Darren not starting this year. Enright left on Moran for not 1, but 2 games - this was shambolic - any club manager would have swopped him onto someone else after 20 min of the first game.Give the young lads a chance and don't drop them when the sod drys out - would not mind a couple of barren years if you could see the potential coming through. All of the above is simply awful - add in substituting Star at the end of the drawn game when HE could have been on the edge of the square for the last free kick - if Mayo had received the free, he was the one man you would have wanted defending your square ( remember Limerick 2014?). Last week end we played a clearly unfit Donncha for 35 minutes - wonder what James and Darran made of that decision? Its not good enough, period - time for change. Yeah, time is up |
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2017 8:28:37 GMT
Taking off Star and the miss management of added time when the game was bagged was very disappointing with minutes to go.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2017 9:15:08 GMT
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 29, 2017 9:34:26 GMT
Sure thats pure nonsense- so essentially you arent allowed an opinion because you wont step up to the job yourself? I wouldnt be a good song writer but I can tell when something is poor. I think we need a serious improvement on or from Fitz- the latter would have been my choice a year ago but the former is now- due to the fact that we seem to have gone backwards in the championship this year and also due to him not seeming to trust bringing through players unless his hand is forced. |
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Fado
Senior Member
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Post by Fado on Aug 29, 2017 10:33:43 GMT
This responsibility for this tactical shambles lies with EF as he is the one making the decisions, and you have to wonder how the rest of the management team felt about their game plan. It's not a case that in hindsight all has been revealed, some things were obvious beforehand.
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kot
Fanatical Member
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Post by kot on Aug 29, 2017 10:39:18 GMT
Only finding the strength of will to post now. Incredibly disappointing and one of the bleakest days at HQ since the fiascos against Meath/Tyrone in the early part of the noughties.
I could write an absolute essay but will try and brief and to the point. Goalkeeping situation clearly not resolved. Decision needs to be made as to whether Murphy is given a go or if Ryan is going to commit long term to the position.
Full back line needs a complete overhaul and that was obvious before even yesterday.
Have heard Enright being touted as our best man marker by several people and thats a damning indictment of the state we are in on the regard. Every game I have seen him in Croker since 2013 he has been second best bar maybe the final in 2014. Far too loose and easily fooled by even half decent forwards.
We badly need a warrior in the shape of T Ó'Sé somewhere in that half back line. A f
Midfield, Moran was awol but didn't have much in the way of help or from his goalkeeper.
Half forward line, much the same as the full back line needs to be completely replaced. Donnacha's legs are clearly finally starting to show the years, O'Brien is ok as an impact sub and Johnny B isn't good enough I'm afraid.
Full forward line, a poor ending for Star and incredibly petulant for a man of his experience to go out like that... He was offered no support, 4 or 5 balls into him and not a soul in and around him. Felt sorry for Geaney & Murphy, were the only 2 who seemed to battle along with James when he came on.
Management - I have been one of EF's biggest backers but he got it horribly wrong the on Saturday. The dropping of Jameso basically halves our attacking threat and all Mayo had to do was bottle up Geaney as we have no scoring threat from the half back line or half forward line. The fact that we have not brought any through from the minor winning 2014 team while Con O'Callaghan is destroying defences all summer is a big big worry.
Finally - Gough! My exasperation beforehand with his appointment and worry that he would baffle and infuriate were not without substance. How is this guy even considered for games? Who in the G.A.A thinks he improves the spectacle? Now, Mayo would have beaten us regardless but his application of the rules is laughable really! We might aswell all start playing netball!
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Post by augustafield on Aug 29, 2017 11:07:08 GMT
Mayo were fantastic - Kerry were fantastical .. An embarrassing shambles .
A pale grotesque shadow of the side they should be . A parody . They were
humiliated by Mayos attacking power and pace but added to their miserable
downfall with their lack of organisation and determination and fight . Once
behind it was over . All over . They had no belief and no leadership .
Fair comment or over reaction ? If the former what to do ? Concentrate on
the team that won the League . They showed greater heart pace skill and
commitment than we saw over the last two weekends . If the latter well then
we'll keep our heads in the sand .
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Post by buck02 on Aug 29, 2017 12:27:08 GMT
Didnt Aiden play as a sweeper in the 2016 semi final v Dublin? Its hardly rocket science to get one half back to drop back to the D and give the opponent in possession no option for the outball. It gives an easy option for the short kickout if the opponents sweeper stays put. I cant believe all the talk about the difficulty of trying to implement a sweeper system in 6 days. By the way.... did the second goal come at a time when Paul Murphy wasnt playing as sweeper.... says something doesn't it if thats true! I was at the Hill end Mahony played sweeper in the semi final last year and Dublin ran amok for 20 minutes at the start of the game. The 'sweeper' system that was in place for the league final this year was much more subtle and obviously worked, because we won! I know its probably over simplistic to say it but in the drawn game Kerry trusted their full back line to hold Mayo's full forward line to maybe 6 points and flood the middle to stop their running game from the back. Kerry full back line failed miserably in their task. Thats why we didnt win. This in turn forced a major re-think and adjustment for the replay. Which ended up playing totally into Mayo's hands. Management and players didnt measure up over the two days. We are all going to be p1ssed about that but thats sport isnt it? The old adage "Your only as good as your last game" always rings through. Overall though I would conclude that 5 years is enough and the players who are 26/27/28 need a new voice. We cant even begin to contemplate how much Fitzmaurice has put into the job over the 5 years and he probably needs a break for his own good as well as that of the team. |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 29, 2017 12:41:53 GMT
He has a young child now too. The commitment is huge.
I would be surprised if he stayed on for another year.
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Post by Dermot on Aug 29, 2017 12:44:30 GMT
Hard luck to Kerry ... by the law of averages Mayo had to catch you sometime .. How long was it .. 21 years since they beat youse in Croke Park ?
Not that I have anything against the "fantastic" Dublin team, but I really hope Mayo win it this year ... Surely a lot of those lads (Andy Moran esp comes to mind) deserve to lift it at least once... for their future mental state if nothing else ..
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Post by royalkerryfan on Aug 29, 2017 14:03:46 GMT
Still sick after Saturday,
For me what makes it worse is we picked team based on fear.
Fear of what Mayo would do, Dropping JOD for a defender.
So disappointed over our performance if EF stays or goes we can never play with that type of fear again, that's not us. That's not Kerry.
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Post by statistician on Aug 29, 2017 14:26:18 GMT
The game involves 30 players (42 from 52 potentially get to play), 8 selectors at least, a dodgy referee, 2 iffy linesmen, 4 umpires well related to the referee, a lad sitting at a table and the most important item 1 O'Neills All Ireland Football in use at anytime chosen from several with each most probably pumped with varying degrees of pressure.
The experience, fitness levels and playing styles of each player varies greatly. We have no idea what is going on inside the head of any of the players or selection committee on any given day. The game goes on for 80 minutes and subs can be introduced at any stage. The starting line ups and positioning means absolutely nothing. The tactics are made up as they go along more or less.
To be honest I was watching the game and I hadn't a clue what either team was at bar pass the ball to a man with the same jersey and hope the attack ends up in a score. If not turn around and leg it as you can back the way you came unless your name is Donaghy or Andy Moran.
Terrace Talk analysed the game last and I'm not having a go but I thought my head was going to explode with 1,000's of theories and ifs and buts. Seriously - can anybody actually analyse a GAA match with so much happening in such a short space of time.
Obviously Mayo were the better team and they were deserving winners but people trying to decipher why Kerry lost in such a bewildered manner is beyond me. Yes I am gutted but I'm following the team now for 29 seasons and have learned to compose myself. Composure and patience is very much required from fans, players, management and the committee.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2017 15:55:12 GMT
Five provincial championships, a NFL and an All-Ireland title would ensure cult status for life in the majority of counties.
I think people are being too hard of Johnny Buckley, played through injury with Crokes in their All-Irreland title journey, got postponed corrective work done on the injury post club run and tried to achieve fitness for Kerry in a short space of time. Johnny was superb v Donegal in 2014 and will play well again for Kerry.
Eamonn deserves the support of the Kerry supporters and KCB. This week will be one of the piss poor places to be for the lad.
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Post by veteran on Aug 29, 2017 16:39:41 GMT
When I heard the line out being announced before the match I turned to my companion and said "it's over, we are conceding". It was daft. Admittedly, JOD has had two poor games but he is a winner and inevitably would find form. Throwing young Tom in his place was an exercise in madness. Tom will be a great player for us in the future but not giving him one minute of championship football all the year and then flinging him in the hellish atmosphere of last Saturday was sheer desperation. How Donie Buckley must have jumped for joy when apprised of this selection. Doncha? Unfit to be on the panel six days previously and now deemed fit to line out. Shane Enright? Riddled the previous week by Andy Moran, a man I have always admired, now given the same task. A lesser crime but indicative of crippled thinking- David taking the 45's. Not a life changing decision but another example of hoping for a different result while making the same mistakes.
At the outset, it must be stated that no matter what the selection and tactics were the outcome very likely would have been the same. Not even the antipathy towards Kerry of the strutting Mr. Look At Me significantly influenced the result. The heart of the matter is that Mayo were the superior team and richly deserved their victory. I sincerely congratulate them and wish them the best in the final. How appropriate it would be for a player like Andy Moran, who has laboured long and hard, to gain that elusive medal. Not alone has he always been a terrific player but he strikes me as an honourable man. In that vein I was appalled when some Roscommon supporters booed him in the drawn match. Just one final word about the non referee. I take it that Kerry will never again tolerate this individual officiating at one of their matches. Brian Cody exercised that right in connection with a hurling referee.
What of the future for us? I am in no way as pessimistic as some other posters here. While acknowledging that not all minors graduate to top class senior ranks I am confident that a significant cohort of our minors from the past three or four years will make the jump in time, some sooner than others. Patience of course is paramount.(while talking about minors, I was very impressed by Derry last Sunday. This is a formidable team and, perhaps for the first time in his career, David Clifford will be confronted by a seemingly watertight full back line. I will not be wagering my meagre life savings on a Kerry victory.)
Of course , when introducing the youngsters in the NFL it is important not to introduce a whole glut of them at once. In the immediate future the team will still need to be backboned by seasoned players. I believe we have sufficient forwards and midfielders to propel us forward but deficits are in the defence where they have been for a while. You build your team from the full back line out as I have often said here. Contrary to widespread opinion, no player is wasted from playing in the full back line. It is the foundation. Leak freely here and you can forget about the fancy Dans at the other end. But because of the way football has changed you do not now start with full back line you have to start with the man who in modern times is probably the most important man on the team, the goal keeper. I do not believe Brian cuts the mustard here.
One player I would like to see play in the full back line is Peter Crowley. I have suggested this move before and got no response. He was a powerhouse in the full back line when UCC won the Cork title a few years ago. If Jason is not yet physically ready for full back then I would play Peter there. Please don't annoy me by retorting that his attacking style would be missed from the half back line. The county championship may throw up other contenders. In that respect we may discover where Ronan Shanahan is at.
I do hope that all our older players don't decide to walk away, especially KD. This man is one of the greatest warriors I have seen play for Kerry over the past several decades. Let him play his basketball for the winter and then reappear in late Spring. He was one of our top players this year and I see no reason why he cannot survive for another year. Even if he only makes cameo appearances in 2018 can you imagine the influence he would have on the younger lads. Kieran was born to lead and inspire and I have no doubt at all he would be an incalculable asset to us in 2018.
Management? I like Eamon. I always like a man who carries himself with dignity. He has made a few inexplicable decisions but we have all have done that even in less pressurised situations. Without question in my mind , his job is the most demanding in all of Irish sport because we simply want to win every year. We are merciless in our expectations. Paidi put it crudely but he nailed it. Eamon gave me an All-Ireland in 2014 when I didn't expect it. He gave me an NFL in 2017 when I didn't expect it. Some people may speak disparagingly of that achievement now. I value it greatly. If he does decide to stay on perhaps he could shake up his backroom team. Oh what I would give if Pat Flanagan and/or Donie Buckley could be coaxed back.
It is understandable that some people are unsure about Eamon but when calling for his head you need to have a replacement in mind. Jack O'Connor has a great record and I would have no problem with his second coming or would it be his third, but I must say my biggest disappointment this year was our failure to win the u21 title. Off the top of my head the only other viable and worthy candidate would be Liam Kerins.
I know Mickmack is worried about a continuing Dublin dominance because of their resources etc. It may turn out that his fears are justified. Still there was a time when we thought that Kerry's dominance would never end. There was a time when we thought Kilkenny's dominance would never end. I know the point being made is the discrepancy in population and resources but population and resources or the lack thereof did not hinder the Derry minors last Sunday. Who knows, the population deficit may not hinder Mayo in a few weeks and of course I will never lose the faith in my incomparable county. As always, time will reveal all.
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Post by bedlamite on Aug 29, 2017 16:52:14 GMT
Very disappointed with Kerry's performance over both days, but Saturday's was very poor. Have no doubt about it but Kerry are good enough to beat Mayo, but they needed to be firing on all cylinders. They weren't right from the start, Mayo got themselves on the Front foot and we were always chasing. This Mayo team are a serious outfit, too good to peg back.
Lets look at why we were not right from the outset. The Drawn game holds most of the answers. It showed that our Full backline are not of the calibre of the Kerry fullback line of a few years ago. Enright is no Marc O Shea and Killian Young is no Tom Sullivan. Their shortcomings were exposed by Andy Moran, who has been a top class, intelligent footballer for many years, and Doherty who seems to have improved over the last 12 months. If we contained this line to a more reasonable scoreline, in the drawn game then we would have won. Options here would be Fionn Fitzgerald for Enright, or even a Young/Enright switch. Little else needed to be done. Fitzmaurice showed too much loyalty to Enright, expected him to come good, but he is a rash defender by nature, totally the wrong option for a fox like Moran, who has good footwork.
Otherwise the drawn game showed that we competed elsewhere at a level to beat Mayo, not that we couldn't have improved, and knowing that Mayo would also improve. Crowley and Murphy were especially good the first day. If they even dropped a peg or 2 they would have sufficed. Crowley was in hard luck to be sent off, and while we were only really to be fair unlikely to peg Mayo back when he got his marching orders, his loss presented the game to Mayo.( his first yellow was a rash challenge, deserved a yellow, and was poor play from him). Morley was only alright on the first day, but did enough for me over both days to say he has a future. Needs to benchmark himself against Murphy/Crowley in Kerry or say Boyle from Mayo, Small/ McCaffrey/McCarthy from Dublin, and so has a bit to go.
Midfield, we don't have a good midfield. Moran has gone back from when he broke through in 2014. His kick passing and point taking is poorer from that point, and he still can't tackle, and he is still rounded too easily. He has improved in not being turned over so often, but overall he has not come on. He is not a leader. He can't even kick a 45 when the pressure is on. He is not a go to man. ( consistently he is high in the stats for possession, which a midfielder should be, but how effective is he with the ball. Analyse the stats better is what I am saying) Maher, his age/injury profile says perhaps his best days are behind him, and he is a loss. He is a leader. He is clever, and manly and plays to his strengths. Needs to recover his form though, not sure if he can. Jack Barry, well he has age on his side to improve, but he was intimidated by Parsons, and O'Shea from the outset in the replay. They were intent on rattling him, and while I watched him closely and he tried to give as good as he got, he was upset. He has potential, however again needs to benchmark himself against the likes of Fenton in Dublin, Dara O Shea etc. We need a leader in midfield, and as Moran can't or won't lead, Barry needs to ask himself if he will step up to the plate. Our management need to watch for the answer. If its not in the affirmative, we need to look for new options.
Our half forward line, well compare it to Galvin/O Sullivan/Walsh in their heyday, or Connolly/O Callaghan/Mannion or a host of options Dublin could actually put out in this line and you have your answer. Not good enough to win an All Ireland. Michael Geaney had a good Munster Final, but lets say injury deprived us of his services this time round, but it would be fair to say that his scoring prowess is less than the above mentioned all Ireland winning half forwards. It was hard to fathom how Donnacha Walsh was played in the Replay. Donnacha got enough of it from Powter in the Munster Final, and great player that he was, his speed is not what it was, and even with the hint of a Hamstring, how was he going to turn the tide for us. Buckley is a classy footballer but unfortunately does not have the speed to stop a top class half back raiding forward. He is one of the better tacklers Kerry have, but his lack of speed deprives him of getting to use it. Jack Savage played well this league and Championship, plays hard and fast, and showed leadership in both games. On the small side, but he will get stronger. Darren O Sullivan, got wronged by Gough on Saturday, but in reality his age/injuries/overall ability at this stage of his career reduce his stock considerably. O Brein, has speed, but to my mind, another guy who can't tackle, who can't lead the team, doesn't score enough. He needs to improve if we are stick with him, and he to help Kerry win an All Ireland. He has not improved enough for the time he has been on the scene.
The full forward line, O Donoghue/Donaghy/Geaney is the only line truly that can be considered All Ireland class. Donaghy has been a great player for Kerry down through the years, and this year again could be considered Kerry's best player. He has attitude, leadership, frightens the opposition, brings other players into the game, and can win a game on his own when the need arises. Will be a loss to Kerry if he calls it a day. Impossible to replace like for like. I hope he stays. All this crap about the red card being a sad way to end his career aside, he has something to offer Kerry. Geaney has improved year on year since he came on the scene. He has got stronger, improved his tackling, his accuracy and showed leadership this year and last. Many years ahead of him as one of Irelands best forwards. James O Donoghue, was brilliant against Cork, worse than useless against Galway, poor against Mayo the Drawn Game, and Good in the second half against Mayo. To my mind, while injuries have gone against him since 2014,( and leaving aside the brilliant 2014), he has not progressed from the fine player he was in 2012/13. His body language is all wrong at times, he has not worked well with Donaghy to pick up breaks, is a terrible tackler, and due to this and his general inconsistent performances cannot be considered a leader in the team.
The Goalkeeper, he is a fairly good shot stopper, but his kick outs are not at the standard. But I will give him a break, and apportion some blame the poor midfield in this area. I watched his kickouts in the Munster Final and thery were very patchy. The Cork Midfield were on top against Kerry for big portions of this game, and he just could not post the ball to them. He needs to keep calm when things are going wrong, and All the best teams, need a Goal Keeper to be a leader. In the modern day, a goal keeper can make or break a team. Mentality is everything. Kealy, while a great shot stopper, was not a good exponent of the quick or accurate Kick out so in my opinion unless both can improve on this aspect of their game, we need to look elsewhere. Brian Sheahan  ?, is it as crazy as Aiden O Shea at fullback.
Eamon and his management team. Lots of mistakes made in their reign, they will know it themselves. Kerry had Dublin for the taking in the rain in 2015, but started without Donaghy. Not sure if we could have won the all Ireland this year, but we could have made a better fist of it. Last year, we were close to Dublin again, and it was age that beat us, even though probably Dublin being below par brought us to within striking distance. Mayo should have won it last year even with moderate luck. Eamon Fitzmaurice didn't have the best hand of cards to play over the last few years, but he didn't play them as well as he could. He and his management team, like the players mentioned above, will need need to ask themselves, have I improved enough from when I took over the reigns, am I learning from my experiences, and do I have the stomach to go again.
Finally I really hope Mayo play well enough to win the All Ireland. Great bunch of players, hard, and committed. They have improved, they have planned and worked their way here by the skin of their teeth, this year and last. They have got cynical, tough tackling, more efficient in front of goals, more skillfull, fitter and stronger and they have developed a bagfull of leaders on and off the field. Something we in Kerry could look at. Fine to right fellas off, but good calibre men will improve if they have the will.
Dublin's semi final was a cake walk this year, not because they are so good, but Tyrone completely misfired. They never laid a hand on Dublin, never engaged with them, and when they did, with ball in hand, they were robbed so easily. Not sure what sort of game they were training for, but it wasn't a football game. Delighted everybody is writing Dublin up as the greatest ever heading into the game, Bound to get into their heads. Dublin were taken to a replay by Mayo last year, should have been taken to a replay by Kerry last year, and have had replays the previous years with Mayo, on which they improved upon to win the all Ireland. They are not so far ahead of teams that the media are constantly writing off as not being good enough. Mayo and Kerry could take Dublin on any given day if they fired on all cylinders. Mayo's machine seems to be humming nicely as they come into the Final, while Kerry's is backfiring for now.
Go On Mayo for 2017.
Kerry for 2018 and onwards.
Best of luck to the Kerry Minors.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 16:53:28 GMT
Can't argue with much of veterans post. Given Donaghys performances this year, no reason why he cannot follow the same template again and return to the panel next April or May.
On eamon I am not sure. I have always supported him. Things need shaking up for sure but There are no obvious replacements for him.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 29, 2017 18:04:31 GMT
Can't argue with much of veterans post. Given Donaghys performances this year, no reason why he cannot follow the same template again and return to the panel next April or May. On eamon I am not sure. I have always supported him. Things need shaking up for sure but There are no obvious replacements for him.Apart from Liam Kearns and getting Donie Buckley back I'm not hearing many alternative names for the Kerry management job. But that's not to say there are not others interested and well capable of doing the job and maybe even better? We'll only find out those alternatives once and if the position becomes available. Personally, I’d have more fear of doing the same thing than trying something new. |
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Post by jackiel on Aug 29, 2017 21:08:45 GMT
great post Veteran. You set the bar for us all.
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?, is it as crazy as Aiden O Shea at fullback.
