animal
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Post by animal on May 30, 2017 13:05:51 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 30, 2017 13:09:21 GMT
What about sportspeople on lower grants? Under elite level? Should they not be tested? And I am fairly sure that they are. Yes. The point is they still get a grant. Some of the boxers are only getting 8-10k. i would hold all GAA players fully accountable if they were on some grant system. its a contract of sorts. GAA players can also get a grant. Nowhere near €10K granted (no pun intended).
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 13:19:22 GMT
The GAA grants are mickey mouse and attracted negativity from grass roots at the time. It is a farce to call these grants at this stage.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 13:24:02 GMT
What about sportspeople on lower grants? Under elite level? Should they not be tested? And I am fairly sure that they are. Yes. The point is they still get a grant. Some of the boxers are only getting 8-10k. i would hold all GAA players fully accountable if they were on some grant system. its a contract of sorts. Katie Taylor was on 40k per year and amassed 400k since 2005. www.sportireland.ie/High_Performance/Athletes/Athlete-List/Katie_Taylor.htmlI see no issues with testing this type of elite "amateur" athlete.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:00:32 GMT
What about the likes of a Bernard Brogan or gooch? They both benefit financially.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:01:51 GMT
All this about payments, grants etc. Is a loud of crap and a fairly pathetic excuse to cheat.
Intercounty GAA players are playing our national sports at the highest possible level. If they choose to take substances it means they are cheating and I for one would like if they were caught. Also those who take stuff by accident should also be accountable given the resources they have access to at intercounty level they should not be making these mistakes.
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Post by buck02 on May 30, 2017 14:10:41 GMT
Yes. The point is they still get a grant. Some of the boxers are only getting 8-10k. i would hold all GAA players fully accountable if they were on some grant system. its a contract of sorts. Katie Taylor was on 40k per year and amassed 400k since 2005. www.sportireland.ie/High_Performance/Athletes/Athlete-List/Katie_Taylor.htmlI see no issues with testing this type of elite "amateur" athlete. I think we get it you dont agree that GAA players are tested. Say they arent and in a few years time we learn that Kerry lost a few All Ireland finals to a team who were systematically taking PEDs. What would you think then?
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 14:13:42 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:19:25 GMT
Compared to Katie yes but compared to plenty other athletes tested not necessarily.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:19:29 GMT
That's really your argument for cheating?
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 14:21:19 GMT
I think we get it you dont agree that GAA players are tested. Say they arent and in a few years time we learn that Kerry lost a few All Ireland finals to a team who were systematically taking PEDs. What would you think then? I think you don't. My concern is with a player being tarnished who works and lives in the community who comes out on the wrong side of accidentally taking a banned substance. That must be quiet clear by now, is it not? To answer your hypothetical question, obviously the GAA world is rife with drugs cheats, probably no different to the way I felt at the end of 1982 or 2011 finals that were heavily influenced by refereeing calls.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 14:26:04 GMT
That's really your argument for cheating? Take it or leave it. Katie Taylor was a "professional amateur" not holding down a day job. County players work full time and play sport as a hobby for the pride of the parish. The repercussions of coming out on the wrong side of innocently making a mistake are huge for these players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:32:10 GMT
That's really your argument for cheating? Take it or leave it. Katie Taylor was a "professional amateur" not holding down a day job. County players work full time and play sport as a hobby for the pride of the parish. The repercussions of coming out on the wrong side of innocently making a mistake are huge for these players. Ok I do understand your argument with regard to tarnishing a player's name who is entirely innocent, i.e. taking something without knowing. However I would think that players at intercounty level have access to sufficient resources to not make these mistakes. I know they are amateurs but once they become part of an intercounty panel, rightly or wrongly, it is anything but amateur.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 14:37:45 GMT
Take it or leave it. Katie Taylor was a "professional amateur" not holding down a day job. County players work full time and play sport as a hobby for the pride of the parish. The repercussions of coming out on the wrong side of innocently making a mistake are huge for these players. Ok I do understand your argument with regard to tarnishing a player's name who is entirely innocent, i.e. taking something without knowing. However I would think that players at intercounty level have access to sufficient resources to not make these mistakes. I know they are amateurs but once they become part of an intercounty panel, rightly or wrongly, it is anything but amateur. That's probably the crux of it, too great a demand placed on these lads at county level in an amateur setting.
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keane
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Post by keane on May 30, 2017 14:38:49 GMT
Are we in danger of overblowing the consequences of this a small also? BOS is going to be a bit red faced about this for a while, there's no doubt it's embarrassing for all involved. He's probably given workmates something to slag him about.
Is there likely to be any great hardship outside of that?
Everyone seems to accept that this is a mistake from a guy who probably should know better, no more no less.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 14:42:23 GMT
No, because he came out the right side of it to a degree. The flip side was a four year ban and all that goes with that. He still served a long suspension.
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Fado
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Post by Fado on May 30, 2017 14:43:36 GMT
Let's not complicate things, testing is here to stay. If players are deemed to have taken a banned substance, knowingly or not, they will be punished.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:44:40 GMT
Are we in danger of overblowing the consequences of this a small also? BOS is going to be a bit red faced about this for a while, there's no doubt it's embarrassing for all involved. He's probably given workmates something to slag him about. Is there likely to be any great hardship outside of that? Everyone seems to accept that this is a mistake from a guy who probably should know better, no more no less. Fair point. Nobody is suggesting from what I have seen that Brendan has cheated or anything like that l
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fivenarow
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Post by fivenarow on May 30, 2017 14:52:45 GMT
It looks like Brendan went off on a solo run & unfortunately for him he didn't do his homework on what he was taking.In todays age I find it difficult to understand how he didn't run it by Kerry backroom team but sure these things happen from time to time. I'm amazed that it was kept under wraps for the past year, I heard Marc saying last night that they knew nothing about it which I'd believe as it would have to have leaked out somewhere along the line.
I dont know the guy personally but he seems to be a genuine person & just gets on with his business on the pitch. I haven't heard anyone having a bad word to say about him so I'd imagine what you see is what you get.
Look, it seems that unknown to him he did the crime & he's served his time. The man has a job & a personal life outside of his football so its time for everyone to move on including Paul Kimmage who seems to have a infatuation for this sort of thing.
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Post by buck02 on May 30, 2017 15:04:04 GMT
Heres the Mike Quirke article he wrote after the Thomas Connolly positive test. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/mike-quirke-i-dont-know-thomas-connolly-but-this-much-i-do-know-338714.htmlThe paragraph below was fairly prophetic. "A person’s life and integrity has forever been tarnished in this situation, and if that has come to pass as a result of a lack of proper information and educational protocols within the inter-county teams of the GAA then that must change with immediate effect to ensure that a lack of knowledge and ignorance of the rules can never be an issue for any player testing positive ever again. I’ve always felt that this was a potential incident waiting to happen, and that the drug-testing in the GAA was far more likely to catch the uneducated and uninformed rather than genuine drug cheats."
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 15:17:26 GMT
Are we in danger of overblowing the consequences of this a small also? BOS is going to be a bit red faced about this for a while, there's no doubt it's embarrassing for all involved. He's probably given workmates something to slag him about. Is there likely to be any great hardship outside of that? Everyone seems to accept that this is a mistake from a guy who probably should know better, no more no less. Nonsense. The guy has missed full season of championship and a full league campaign when others have passed him on in terms of selection. Thats not overblowing the consequences. He is every bit as guilty as the 'sound fella' from Jamaica who took the same stuff by accident and cost Usain Bolt another gold in the relay. I saw someone refer to him as a Valentia Islander who is more 'bacon and cabbage' than a drug cheat. Compensate them to the same level as our mid tier, national 'semi amateur' sportspeople under the Sports Council Grant Scheme, hold them accountable to the highest standards and treat them professionally and openly when they dont comply instead of hiding behind the GAA charade.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 15:19:27 GMT
Heres the Mike Quirke article he wrote after the Thomas Connolly positive test. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/mike-quirke-i-dont-know-thomas-connolly-but-this-much-i-do-know-338714.htmlThe paragraph below was fairly prophetic. "A person’s life and integrity has forever been tarnished in this situation, and if that has come to pass as a result of a lack of proper information and educational protocols within the inter-county teams of the GAA then that must change with immediate effect to ensure that a lack of knowledge and ignorance of the rules can never be an issue for any player testing positive ever again. I’ve always felt that this was a potential incident waiting to happen, and that the drug-testing in the GAA was far more likely to catch the uneducated and uninformed rather than genuine drug cheats." That's why I think the current format for testing GAA players is over zealous in the current context of a "purely amateur" game. I've zero interest in PC or political football just primarily an interest in the well-being of the lads that play inter county football. The players grants, drug testing and the sports council just looks likes political football to me. Reading the report from the sports council yesterday was like reading something from the High Court. FFS.
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Post by buck02 on May 30, 2017 15:28:16 GMT
Are we in danger of overblowing the consequences of this a small also? BOS is going to be a bit red faced about this for a while, there's no doubt it's embarrassing for all involved. He's probably given workmates something to slag him about. Is there likely to be any great hardship outside of that? Everyone seems to accept that this is a mistake from a guy who probably should know better, no more no less. Nonsense. The guy has missed full season of championship and a full league campaign when others have passed him on in terms of selection. Thats not overblowing the consequences.He is every bit as guilty as the 'sound fella' from Jamaica who took the same stuff by accident and cost Usain Bolt another gold in the relay. I saw someone refer to him as a Valentia Islander who is more 'bacon and cabbage' than a drug cheat. Compensate them to the same level as our mid tier, national 'semi amateur' sportspeople under the Sports Council Grant Scheme, hold them accountable to the highest standards and treat them professionally and openly when they dont comply instead of hiding behind the GAA charade. And according to some people, on the evidence of a few 10 minute displays in the league, he could have been the difference between Kerry beating the Dubs in the semi final. Seamus, are you essentially using this as an argument to increase the compensation for inter-county players?
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Post by Mickmack on May 30, 2017 15:38:46 GMT
Nonsense. The guy has missed full season of championship and a full league campaign when others have passed him on in terms of selection. Thats not overblowing the consequences.He is every bit as guilty as the 'sound fella' from Jamaica who took the same stuff by accident and cost Usain Bolt another gold in the relay. I saw someone refer to him as a Valentia Islander who is more 'bacon and cabbage' than a drug cheat. Compensate them to the same level as our mid tier, national 'semi amateur' sportspeople under the Sports Council Grant Scheme, hold them accountable to the highest standards and treat them professionally and openly when they dont comply instead of hiding behind the GAA charade. And according to some people, on the evidence of a few 10 minute displays in the league, he could have been the difference between Kerry beating the Dubs in the semi final.
Seamus, are you essentially using this as an argument to increase the compensation for inter-county players? True for you too. A lad can do a lot of damage in ten minutes. Was Kevin McMenamin on for much longer than 10 minutes in 2011 or 2013....not mention....Seamus Darby in 1982
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Post by Mickmack on May 30, 2017 15:52:34 GMT
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 16:18:55 GMT
Nonsense. The guy has missed full season of championship and a full league campaign when others have passed him on in terms of selection. Thats not overblowing the consequences.He is every bit as guilty as the 'sound fella' from Jamaica who took the same stuff by accident and cost Usain Bolt another gold in the relay. I saw someone refer to him as a Valentia Islander who is more 'bacon and cabbage' than a drug cheat. Compensate them to the same level as our mid tier, national 'semi amateur' sportspeople under the Sports Council Grant Scheme, hold them accountable to the highest standards and treat them professionally and openly when they dont comply instead of hiding behind the GAA charade. And according to some people, on the evidence of a few 10 minute displays in the league, he could have been the difference between Kerry beating the Dubs in the semi final. Seamus, are you essentially using this as an argument to increase the compensation for inter-county players? I am and I was slow to come to the table. It has passed breaking point. The current work load is 3 field sessions, 3 weights session,1-2 flexibility sessions, video work, nutrition, hydration, recovery, media when asked by management etc. The drug testing means all food choices and supplements need to be monitored as well. It only suits a select number of careers and even at that very sympathetic employers who can maybe trade off lost time and productivity for PR benefits of having a player in their ranks. 10 years ago 20-30% were sales reps on the road. Now it is not workable. Players are actively trading down on their careers to play intercounty football. This is also true of Olympic athletes but the best of them receive a grant. I am sure that a tiered system could be developed that rewards the elite players in GAA in a similar way to this. For example Paul Geaney could be a Tier 1 and receive 10-15k and a player at the bottom end of the panel gets 2-3k. Each county get a number of Tier 1,2,3,4 grants. Rugby works this way with Central contracts with the IRFU for the elite and tiered offers for the others based on a number of factors. If we dont do something like this combined with a county board mentoring committee to aid career development then the best players will either call Tadhg or decide to complete the Masters in Software programming in UCD and pick up a number in Dublin for 70-80k/year and play a bit of club football.
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Post by onlykerry on May 30, 2017 17:47:26 GMT
Drug testing in amateur sport has three elements in my mind and these competing needs need to be addressed sensibly - in many ways the low key way it has been dealt with achieves all needs and the main issue for me is the hoohaa that the media are creating - BOS made a bad call, he served an appropriate punishment and all should get on with it. Competing needs. 1/ Integrity of the sport itself and the desire to keep it relatively drug free. 2/ Need to protect the players from the potential damaging effects of ingesting performance enhancing products for short term gain and possible longer term problems. 3/ Need to protect other players from pumped up players who can inflict serious damage due to them. No testing invites rampant abuses - look at the way some teams leave no stone unturned to win within the rules at present, imagine the pressure to take substances if there was no testing. Testing is critical - how we deal with positive results could be improved - one positive test should be a red card (3 match ban) but a second should be 12 months +
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Post by ciarrailar on May 30, 2017 21:55:28 GMT
I have met Brendan on a number of occasions and have found him to be a very genuine and sincere guy. He's a hard worker and lives for his football. I think it's plain to see that he did not take anything with the intention to cheat or gain an advantage over anyone. Like every other county player he probably takes food supplements and got caught out by one of these having a banned substance in it. Call it naivety or whatever, this wasn't intentional and I think the guy has suffered enough having his name plastered all over the papers. Players need to be educated more on these matters and I thinking banning a lad for something where it's clear it wasn't done on purpose makes a mockery of the doping system.
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Post by kerrygold on May 31, 2017 8:27:15 GMT
I have met Brendan on a number of occasions and have found him to be a very genuine and sincere guy. He's a hard worker and lives for his football. I think it's plain to see that he did not take anything with the intention to cheat or gain an advantage over anyone. Like every other county player he probably takes food supplements and got caught out by one of these having a banned substance in it. Call it naivety or whatever, this wasn't intentional and I think the guy has suffered enough having his name plastered all over the papers. Players need to be educated more on these matters and I thinking banning a lad for something where it's clear it wasn't done on purpose makes a mockery of the doping system.Another of the reasons it is too strict in a "GAA pure amateur setting" as highlighted above. Maybe Croke Park should look at doing their own testing in order to "keep the sport clean". In the absence of proper functioning grants for GAA players I don't see what the sports council should have to do with it. Croke Park capitulated to the Sports council very easily at the time. The GAA is the biggest sporting organisation in the country. It should look after its own affairs. Regarding elite sports people in other sports, they all have an international and professional setting to aspire to, something not available to GAA players.
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animal
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Post by animal on May 31, 2017 8:27:49 GMT
I have met Brendan on a number of occasions and have found him to be a very genuine and sincere guy. He's a hard worker and lives for his football. I think it's plain to see that he did not take anything with the intention to cheat or gain an advantage over anyone. Like every other county player he probably takes food supplements and got caught out by one of these having a banned substance in it. Call it naivety or whatever, this wasn't intentional and I think the guy has suffered enough having his name plastered all over the papers. Players need to be educated more on these matters and I thinking banning a lad for something where it's clear it wasn't done on purpose makes a mockery of the doping system. Agree with most of that but if Brendan had simply gone through the squad nutrition expert and medical team he could have avoided the trouble he found himself in. There is good reason why their diets and fluid intakes are so strictly monitored. I knew someone who played for Kerry back in the 90's and 00's and he would never accept the offer of a drink from an opponents bottle for fear of it containing something. Now whether this was under instruction or his own take on things I don't recall but it demonstrates that even back then players were thinking this way.
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